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#1 Posted by Darkpen (73 posts) -

As Bombcast sits as my general go-to gaming podcast, it can be painful sometimes to hear ignorance and apathy for things that are either outright offensively wrong, or there be an absence of balance when people start piling on the hate and dismissal of various Japanese-oriented titles.

I know that this is an issue that's been brought up in the periphery of the Bombcast-listening community, and realize that the cast is simply not equipped for it, but if that's going to be the case, then can someone please inform Patrick to acknowledge that as well? I feel like he, as the newest member, doesn't acknowledge this and simply piles on ignorant hate for things. Disdain from negative experiences is one thing, but uninformed opinions and statements really grind my teeth. I feel like the rest of the crew acknowledges this hole in their general pool of knowledge, but Patrick seems to not be aware of this somewhat unspoken rule.

I may be ranting, but its something of a reoccuring annoyance.

#2 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19339 posts) -

Can you give an example of this ignorance?

#3 Posted by Lagaroth (171 posts) -

Is this about that Final Fantasy character art style thing? Cause not liking an art style isn't really ignorant hate, it is an opinion.

#4 Posted by OllyOxenFree (4973 posts) -

Yeah, I'm kind of confused, duder. Elaborate.

#5 Posted by Flappy (2244 posts) -

An example would be nice.

#6 Posted by ick_bop (109 posts) -

When Patrick was talking about XIII not doing as well as past installments, he was talking in a critical sense, not in terms of sales.

#7 Posted by BrockNRolla (1702 posts) -

Yup. Just listened to the Bombcast. No idea what you're talking about. Example.

#8 Posted by Turambar (6784 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:

Can you give an example of this ignorance?

The only thing that comes to mind immediatly is Brad's rather baseless rage at the prominance of Nomura's name in FF13-2.  It's the 4th (I think) name that shows up in the opening credits, and on the main menu screen, while there is a "character design by Nomura" line, it's on the bottom of the screen on the same line as the copyright squareenix 2012 etc etc.
 
Though I don't think that's what the OP is talking about as it's a pretty minor thing in the grand scheme of things.
#9 Edited by Darkpen (73 posts) -

Well, for one, the beginning of the misplaced Tetsuya Nomura hate during the past episode around the 58 minute mark.

He rants about "bigger than the logo concept art," followed by a "fuck you, god-----!"

This statement pisses me off in ways that I can't describe, especially as a fan of Yoshitaka Amano. Any average FF fan would be able to point this out, and no one on the crew is equipped to point that out.

Not to mention the attack on the aesthetic. The fact that there's no one on the show willing to rebuttal him in any capacity, or at least his incapability to offer a convincing argument for his hate, annoys me. He admits like a minute prior or two that he's not even certain if the things he hates are directly because of Nomura, but it doesn't stop him from using him as a scapegoat and beating on a dead horse.

#10 Edited by Turambar (6784 posts) -
@Lagaroth said: Refer to my above post.  Brad does get it factually wrong about the position of Nomura's name placement in the opening of the game.  Though I'd hope the ignorance is something a bit less petty than that.
#11 Posted by BrockNRolla (1702 posts) -

@Darkpen said:

Well, for one, the beginning of the misplaced Tetsuya Nomura hate during the past episode around the 58 minute mark.

He rants about "bigger than the logo concept art," followed by a "fuck you, god-----!"

This statement pisses me off in ways that I can't describe, especially as a fan of Yoshitaka Amano. Any average FF fan would be able to point this out, and no one on the crew is equipped to point that out.

Ah. So they don't like FF and that makes you upset. You're right. They should have people with better opinions.

#12 Posted by Tennmuerti (8100 posts) -

Ah they get facts wrong like every bomcast. About many topics i care about.

After years I think i learned to zone 90% of those out. Tho once in a while something will still get me annoyed.

#13 Posted by Soffish (139 posts) -

Yeah, Patrick's irrational burning hatred of Nomura seems a bit...misplaced.

#14 Posted by Dany (7887 posts) -

@Soffish: I feel like he's been doing that a lot recently. Being irrational

#15 Posted by Dallas_Raines (2161 posts) -

@Soffish:

Well, Nomura is a shitty character designer.

#16 Posted by Turambar (6784 posts) -
@Tennmuerti said:

Ah they get facts wrong like every bomcast. About many topics i care about.

After years I think i learned to zone 90% of those out. Tho once in a while something will still get me annoyed.

Well, it is kind of hard not to get annoyed when the bombcast crew goes into a group masturbatory anger session that is started by factually incorrect visual observation.
#17 Posted by Tennmuerti (8100 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@Tennmuerti said:

Ah they get facts wrong like every bomcast. About many topics i care about.

After years I think i learned to zone 90% of those out. Tho once in a while something will still get me annoyed.

Well, it is kind of hard not to get annoyed when the bombcast crew goes into a group masturbatory anger session that is started by factually incorrect visual observation.

Yep that's part of the 10% that usually gets through to me.

#18 Posted by ShaggE (6452 posts) -

The only thing that bothered me this week was when Jeff said that they "used (the 'modern games with Atari sound effects' film trope) to great effect in the Tim & Eric movie". I don't recall anything like that in B$M, so I'm racking my brain trying to figure out what he was talking about.

#19 Posted by Soffish (139 posts) -

@Dallas_Raines:

I sure as hell don't like Nomura's character design, but the pure vitriol that is constantly being directed at him is a bit silly. Everyone seems to use Nomura as scapegoat, when there are much bigger problems with modern FF games(and JRPGS in general) than feathered hair.

#20 Posted by HatKing (5947 posts) -

Why do I get the impression this is white kid being offended that not everybody 'gets' the art style in the games like he does.

Just to point out what everybody who actually listened to the podcast knows, they were never saying that there is something inherently, critically wrong with the art style of the game. While some of the members might not have ever liked the art style the games now dwell in, they were merely talking about how played out it is. Even in the Quick Look they complain about how similar the game looks to the past thirteen plus years of the franchise's existence.

#21 Posted by Darkpen (73 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@Tennmuerti said:

Ah they get facts wrong like every bomcast. About many topics i care about.

After years I think i learned to zone 90% of those out. Tho once in a while something will still get me annoyed.

Well, it is kind of hard not to get annoyed when the bombcast crew goes into a group masturbatory anger session that is started by factually incorrect visual observation.

Pretty much this.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not new the listening to the Bombcast, and I've come to accept that Vinny, Jeff, Brad, and Ryan will, without failure, get something wrong, and I feel like they're reigned it in a little in terms of how cautious they are with that stuff (though it used to be a lot worse), but Patrick doesn't share the sense to do the same.

#22 Posted by Lagaroth (171 posts) -

Alright I suppose I can see what you are getting annoyed at, but would having a "Japanophile fact-checker" really help mediate a rant based on someone's opinion and a splash screen that they misremember?

"Blah blah blah name on screen is bigger than the title, I hate how buckles and--"

"Actually the name is not bigger than the title"

"Whatever, I hate how the buckles and the pockets and the creative rut and the stink and the..."

#23 Edited by Darkpen (73 posts) -

@HatKing said:

Why do I get the impression this is white kid being offended that not everybody 'gets' the art style in the games like he does.

Just to point out what everybody who actually listened to the podcast knows, they were never saying that there is something inherently, critically wrong with the art style of the game. While some of the members might not have ever liked the art style the games now dwell in, they were merely talking about how played out it is. Even in the Quick Look they complain about how similar the game looks to the past thirteen plus years of the franchise's existence.

lol, are you calling me a "white kid?"

@the bolded line: What the fuck? You know, I didn't even watch the quicklook, but if what you say is true, then that's an even more heinously ignorant statement to make than what I was whining about. Seriously? Did they actually say that in the quicklook? What the fuck. That isn't an opinion, that's just straight up uncultured ignorance, and this is in no way a defense of Nomura either.

@Soffish said:

@Dallas_Raines:

I sure as hell don't like Nomura's character design, but the pure vitriol that is constantly being directed at him is a bit silly. Everyone seems to use Nomura as scapegoat, when there are much bigger problems with modern FF games(and JRPGS in general) than feathered hair.

Exactly. They suffer a terribly narrow view of JRPGs, but not much thanks to S-E themselves.

#24 Posted by Barrock (3533 posts) -

Seems they didn't get facts wrong as much as they voiced a differing opinion than yours.

#25 Edited by BoOzak (920 posts) -

I think the site would benefit from having someone on staff (Vinny and Ryan's shaky DBZ knowledge doesnt count) who doesnt hate anime. But then again it's their job to write about/play videogames, and they're pretty good at it. On a related note I think 13-2's character design is fucking garbage. And with the exception of Hope and Vanille I didnt mind 13's characters.

#26 Posted by fox01313 (5072 posts) -

From the bombcast most recently put out seemed they were just more tired of the latest Final Fantasy art styles but in the past they have enjoyed other Japanese games (ie. Chrono Trigger, Persona 4, ect.) & have to agree with them in part that the last few FF games have all blended together visually to make it hard to tell them apart in the FF franchise even though they are parts of different worlds/universes/time periods.

#27 Posted by the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG (4308 posts) -

Im Japanese and I dont give a fuck....  Also, I kind of think its refreshing that there isnt a single dude thats really into Japanese culture.  It bugs me how most people I know who are into video games and what not, are into Japanese culture as well.  I just want them to stop trying to brag about how much they know about Japan than me.  Thats the end of my rant. 
 
 
Now back to the topic, just look at HatKing`s response

#28 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19339 posts) -

@the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG said:

Im Japanese and I dont give a fuck.... Also, I kind of think its refreshing that there isnt a single dude thats really into Japanese culture. It bugs me how most people I know who are into video games and what not, are into Japanese culture as well. I just want them to stop trying to brag about how much they know about Japan than me. Thats the end of my rant. Now back to the topic, just look at HatKing`s response

I don't think this has anything to do with Japanese culture.

#29 Posted by JasonR86 (9703 posts) -

So many racist jokes going through my brain...I just...I...I should leave this thread.

Online
#30 Posted by the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG (4308 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ: Yeah I know, I just decided to go on a rant.  I kinda just read the title and started writing.  Then I actually read the OP and couldnt find anything else to say considering I havent listened to this bombcast yet
#31 Posted by BoOzak (920 posts) -

@the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG said:

Im Japanese and I dont give a fuck.... Also, I kind of think its refreshing that there isnt a single dude thats really into Japanese culture. It bugs me how most people I know who are into video games and what not, are into Japanese culture as well. I just want them to stop trying to brag about how much they know about Japan than me. Thats the end of my rant. Now back to the topic, just look at HatKing`s response

You mean you dont carry 13 foot swords and cry all the time??

#32 Posted by PeasantAbuse (5138 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG said:

Im Japanese and I dont give a fuck.... Also, I kind of think its refreshing that there isnt a single dude thats really into Japanese culture. It bugs me how most people I know who are into video games and what not, are into Japanese culture as well. I just want them to stop trying to brag about how much they know about Japan than me. Thats the end of my rant. Now back to the topic, just look at HatKing`s response

I don't think this has anything to do with Japanese culture.

OP is basically saying he wants a weeaboo on the bombcast right in the thread title.

#33 Posted by Darkpen (73 posts) -

@Barrock said:

Seems they didn't get facts wrong as much as they voiced a differing opinion than yours.

If that's your takeaway, then you haven't been paying attention.

@BoOzak said:

I think the site would benefit from having someone on staff (Vinny and Ryan's shaky DBZ knowledge doesnt count) who doesnt hate anime. But then again it's their job to write about/play videogames, and they're pretty good at it. On a related note I think 13-2's character design is fucking garbage. And with the exception of Hope and Vanille I didnt mind 13's characters.

This is the large point that I kind of wanted to get at, but didn't. I ultimately don't mind them getting shit wrong: afterall, this is the fucking Skyrim-palooza-cast, not Obscure-portable-JRPG-cast; I have shows to listen to for that kind of talk. What you point out is part of a larger weakness for the site, which is the absence of someone who doesn't outright hate anime or has general apathy for anime. While this is a site for videogames, you cannot deny the strong connection that anime holds over many Japanese games that may or may not make it over here.

I realize that Giant Bomb's website philosophy is "we only do coverage for games we're interested in," but if that were the case they why bother with 13-2 at all, or is it a morbid curiosity like Blackwater. It speaks to a larger problem than simply anything having to do with the podcast itself.

#34 Posted by Turambar (6784 posts) -
@HatKing said:

Why do I get the impression this is white kid being offended that not everybody 'gets' the art style in the games like he does.

Just to point out what everybody who actually listened to the podcast knows, they were never saying that there is something inherently, critically wrong with the art style of the game. While some of the members might not have ever liked the art style the games now dwell in, they were merely talking about how played out it is. Even in the Quick Look they complain about how similar the game looks to the past thirteen plus years of the franchise's existence.

Off topic, I feel like that particular criticism is extremely empty to me as the only reason anyone is capable of articulating it is because of how distinctive Nomura's character designs are.  I mean, taking something like Dragon Age or Skyrim for example, designs in both game can be are pretty much on the less creative side as far as armor and clothing goes, but since they aren't the eye catching colorful mess that Nomura's designs are, how played out they are isn't really an issue.
#35 Posted by Shady (503 posts) -

It's obviously not the new First Person/Third Shooter they usually jack off to or some indie darling that Brad can't help but get a boner for. Basically, take their stuff with a grain of salt. Patrick is still out of the loop, but then again I never really cared for him.

#36 Posted by Demoskinos (14826 posts) -

The thing that got me about patricks comments is there was something mentioned about what if Akira Toriyama took over the character design. To which patrick was very very much behind which absolutely BAFFLES ME. As much as he complains about the zippers, feathered hair and androgyny of Nomura's designs Toriyama's designs ALL look the same every single character could easily find an analog for a comparison to characters in his other work.

To be so blatantly "yuck this guys work is all the same im tired of it" then instantly get behind the idea of Toriyama taking over absolutely blows my mind. Sure, were all allowed to have opinions but that entire FFXIII-2 conversation seemed to have some serious vitriolic hatred behind it for no good reason.

#37 Posted by ick_bop (109 posts) -

Not liking harajuku art and 'up it's ass', pretentious melodramatic storytelling doesn't necessarily mean they despise anime and JRPGs. I seriously doubt they hold deep contempt for an entire artform. I mean, didn't they recently talk about Ninja Scroll on the podcast?

Also, every single endurance run features a Japanese game.(two of which are beloved by the crew)

#38 Posted by Turambar (6784 posts) -
@ick_bop said:

Not liking harajuku art and 'up it's ass', pretentious melodramatic storytelling doesn't necessarily mean they despise anime and JRPGs. I seriously doubt they hold deep contempt for an entire artform. I mean, didn't they recently talk about Ninja Scroll on the podcast?

Also, every single endurance run features a Japanese game.(two of which are beloved by the crew)

It's not so much that they despise anime and jrpgs (they probably don't), but rather they are willfully ignorant about it, but still try to have opinions on the subject that ends up being batshit crazy.  The mention of Patrick's desire for Toriyama art is an example of this.
#39 Posted by cyraxible (688 posts) -

@Demoskinos: He admits that Toriyama is extremely played out as well but welcomes anything other than the tired art style they've used since VII.

You completely missed the point of that statement.

#40 Edited by Darkpen (73 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@HatKing said:

Why do I get the impression this is white kid being offended that not everybody 'gets' the art style in the games like he does.

Just to point out what everybody who actually listened to the podcast knows, they were never saying that there is something inherently, critically wrong with the art style of the game. While some of the members might not have ever liked the art style the games now dwell in, they were merely talking about how played out it is. Even in the Quick Look they complain about how similar the game looks to the past thirteen plus years of the franchise's existence.

Off topic, I feel like that particular criticism is extremely empty to me as the only reason anyone is capable of articulating it is because of how distinctive Nomura's character designs are. I mean, taking something like Dragon Age or Skyrim for example, designs in both game can be are pretty much on the less creative side as far as armor and clothing goes, but since they aren't the eye catching colorful mess that Nomura's designs are, how played out they are isn't really an issue.

As off topic as this is, I have to agree, though I feel like its the lack of articulation in the Nomura-hate collective that tends to annoy me more than not. Nomura's something of a catch-all scapegoat for "belts and zippers," but I feel like people like Patrick are just one step away from saying what's really on their minds: the faces of models that are designed off of Nomura's style, which itself is just shy of racism but no one dares to take that step that would lead someone to make such a leap of logic. It also doesn't help that people who hate Nomura DON'T realize that he actually ISN'T as involved with the character design as they think, and once you look closer at the credits for those things you'd realize that. If I recall correctly, he ONLY designed Lightning and maybe one or two other characters, and that was it, yet people still attribute him to the games and their general disdain for the "style."

I think it also speaks to a larger bias when you have games like Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning or Darksiders where they straightup rip-off the Blizzard World of Warcraft aesthetic, yet no one says anything (or at least in hushed tones and from corners of the room). I personally find the alarming trend of "fuck yeah cartoony proportions and giant shoulder pads" tasteless when its not in the context of either Warhammer or Blizzard.

#41 Posted by UncleClassy (405 posts) -

I think you're looking for the weaboombcast.

#42 Edited by I_smell (3924 posts) -

It's a podcast, not a philosophical debate. There doesn't have to be equal sides, that's not a rule. There's no podcast police force out there saying that there has to be 2 people who like a thing and 2 people who don't.

It's 5 guys on microphones, if none of them like thing then find another podcast that does. And them using Nomura as a scapegoat is exactly what you're doing with Patrick Klepek right now. Also "token" is like an insulting name you give to something bad. A "token japanophile" would be a bad thing.

@Demoskinos said:

The thing that got me about patricks comments is there was something mentioned about what if Akira Toriyama took over the character design. To which patrick was very very much behind which absolutely BAFFLES ME.

Yeah I also thought that was a pretty weird slip.

#43 Posted by Shady (503 posts) -

@Darkpen said:

@BoOzak said:

I think the site would benefit from having someone on staff (Vinny and Ryan's shaky DBZ knowledge doesnt count) who doesnt hate anime. But then again it's their job to write about/play videogames, and they're pretty good at it. On a related note I think 13-2's character design is fucking garbage. And with the exception of Hope and Vanille I didnt mind 13's characters.

This is the large point that I kind of wanted to get at, but didn't. I ultimately don't mind them getting shit wrong: afterall, this is the fucking Skyrim-palooza-cast, not Obscure-portable-JRPG-cast; I have shows to listen to for that kind of talk. What you point out is part of a larger weakness for the site, which is the absence of someone who doesn't outright hate anime or has general apathy for anime. While this is a site for videogames, you cannot deny the strong connection that anime holds over many Japanese games that may or may not make it over here.

I realize that Giant Bomb's website philosophy is "we only do coverage for games we're interested in," but if that were the case they why bother with 13-2 at all, or is it a morbid curiosity like Blackwater. It speaks to a larger problem than simply anything having to do with the podcast itself.

I think that last part has more to do with Alex actually reviewing stuff as the staff has really been dropping the ball on reviews for things that aren't the big AAA titles. There are some outliers but they tend to be random in quality.

#44 Posted by Lagaroth (171 posts) -

@Darkpen said:

As off topic as this is, I have to agree, though I feel like its the lack of articulation in the Nomura-hate collective that tends to annoy me more than not. Nomura's something of a catch-all scapegoat for "belts and zippers," but I feel like people like Patrick are just one step away from saying what's really on their minds: the faces of models that are designed off of Nomura's style, which itself is just shy of racism but no one dares to take that step that would lead someone to make such a leap of logic. It also doesn't help that people who hate Nomura DON'T realize that he actually ISN'T as involved with the character design as they think, and once you look closer at the credits for those things you'd realize that. If I recall correctly, he ONLY designed Lighting and maybe one or two other characters, and that was it, yet people still attribute him to the games and their general disdain for the "style."

I think it also speaks to a larger bias when you have games like Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning or Darksiders where they straightup rip-off the Blizzard World of Warcraft aesthetic, yet no one says anything (or at least in hushed tones and from corners of the room).

Part of the problem is simply how the world is these days. When credit is due it is heaped upon one person, usually the lead designer or whatever, so when something is treated with disdain that same one person is forced to take the entirety of the hate. I've seen some people praise designers for their brilliant designs, but in reality dozens of people did that work.

I've also seen Amalur's resemblance to WoW come up quite often.

#45 Posted by sodapop7 (233 posts) -

Yeah this part of the podcast kind of rubbed me the wrong way as well. The art design may be a little stale (I'm not saying it is good or bad but similar for the last 3 games or so) but other than that each new FF game has drastically changed the gameplay and battle system. I don't see how they can be called lazy and coasting when there are such drastic changes in each new game? That seemed solely based off the numbering of the titles which I couldn't care less about personally.

Everyone can have their opinion but I don't get where the idea that the FF series is stagnant comes from personally.

#46 Edited by pakattak (201 posts) -

Man, fuck Anime.

I've never fallen out of something so hard. I think I was watching Naruto Shippuden out of pure habit when I suddenly said to myself "ok, I'm done".

I'll read manga because it's a quick and easy fix, but more often than not I'll click on a random new scanlation on mangareader and face palm about five pages in before closing the window.

So yeah. It doesn't bug me in the least that the Bombcast crew have no love for Japanes-y things.

EDIT: On the topic of Final Fantasy, they need to bring back Amano HARD. The technology is there, S-E should make their next game match his artwork as much as possible. I'm talking whispy lines and diminutive faces.

That would be awesome.

#47 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

That was Patrick hamming it up for laughs. I like FF's style and I thought it was funny. But so what if he hates the style? If you can't see how easily it would be for someone to have that opinion than you are a little clueless.

#48 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

The thing that got me about patricks comments is there was something mentioned about what if Akira Toriyama took over the character design. To which patrick was very very much behind which absolutely BAFFLES ME. As much as he complains about the zippers, feathered hair and androgyny of Nomura's designs Toriyama's designs ALL look the same every single character could easily find an analog for a comparison to characters in his other work.

To be so blatantly "yuck this guys work is all the same im tired of it" then instantly get behind the idea of Toriyama taking over absolutely blows my mind. Sure, were all allowed to have opinions but that entire FFXIII-2 conversation seemed to have some serious vitriolic hatred behind it for no good reason.

Yeah, I was thinking this too. Compare Toriyama's art style to Nomura's. I loved Nomura's drawing when FF7 came out because they didn't look so flowery and feminine which is Toriyama's trademark.

#49 Posted by Shady (503 posts) -

@Lagaroth said:

@Darkpen said:

As off topic as this is, I have to agree, though I feel like its the lack of articulation in the Nomura-hate collective that tends to annoy me more than not. Nomura's something of a catch-all scapegoat for "belts and zippers," but I feel like people like Patrick are just one step away from saying what's really on their minds: the faces of models that are designed off of Nomura's style, which itself is just shy of racism but no one dares to take that step that would lead someone to make such a leap of logic. It also doesn't help that people who hate Nomura DON'T realize that he actually ISN'T as involved with the character design as they think, and once you look closer at the credits for those things you'd realize that. If I recall correctly, he ONLY designed Lighting and maybe one or two other characters, and that was it, yet people still attribute him to the games and their general disdain for the "style."

I think it also speaks to a larger bias when you have games like Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning or Darksiders where they straightup rip-off the Blizzard World of Warcraft aesthetic, yet no one says anything (or at least in hushed tones and from corners of the room).

Part of the problem is simply how the world is these days. When credit is due it is heaped upon one person, usually the lead designer or whatever, so when something is treated with disdain that same one person is forced to take the entirety of the hate. I've seen some people praise designers for their brilliant designs, but in reality dozens of people did that work.

I've also seen Amalur's resemblance to WoW come up quite often.

Resemblance would be putting it mildly. However, that games art direction isn't what bothers me. It's that it looks like a game from 2006.

#50 Posted by ick_bop (109 posts) -

@Darkpen said:

@Turambar said:

@HatKing said:

Why do I get the impression this is white kid being offended that not everybody 'gets' the art style in the games like he does.

Just to point out what everybody who actually listened to the podcast knows, they were never saying that there is something inherently, critically wrong with the art style of the game. While some of the members might not have ever liked the art style the games now dwell in, they were merely talking about how played out it is. Even in the Quick Look they complain about how similar the game looks to the past thirteen plus years of the franchise's existence.

Off topic, I feel like that particular criticism is extremely empty to me as the only reason anyone is capable of articulating it is because of how distinctive Nomura's character designs are. I mean, taking something like Dragon Age or Skyrim for example, designs in both game can be are pretty much on the less creative side as far as armor and clothing goes, but since they aren't the eye catching colorful mess that Nomura's designs are, how played out they are isn't really an issue.

As off topic as this is, I have to agree, though I feel like its the lack of articulation in the Nomura-hate collective that tends to annoy me more than not. Nomura's something of a catch-all scapegoat for "belts and zippers," but I feel like people like Patrick are just one step away from saying what's really on their minds: the faces of models that are designed off of Nomura's style, which itself is just shy of racism but no one dares to take that step that would lead someone to make such a leap of logic. It also doesn't help that people who hate Nomura DON'T realize that he actually ISN'T as involved with the character design as they think, and once you look closer at the credits for those things you'd realize that. If I recall correctly, he ONLY designed Lightning and maybe one or two other characters, and that was it, yet people still attribute him to the games and their general disdain for the "style."

I think it also speaks to a larger bias when you have games like Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning or Darksiders where they straightup rip-off the Blizzard World of Warcraft aesthetic, yet no one says anything (or at least in hushed tones and from corners of the room). I personally find the alarming trend of "fuck yeah cartoony proportions and giant shoulder pads" tasteless when its not in the context of either Warhammer or Blizzard.

guys, patrick's racist if he doesn't like this...