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#1 Edited by Aegon (5403 posts) -

They plan to release a steam early access version of the the first half in January of 2014 due to an unexpected lengthy production time and costs. Tim claims the schedule change has to do with him designing a big game rather than the team being slow. Here's his note:

Hello, Backers of Adventure!

Those of you who have been following along in the documentary know about the design vs. money tension we’ve had on this project since the early days. Even though we received much more money from our Kickstarter than we, or anybody anticipated, that didn’t stop me from getting excited and designing a game so big that it would need even more money.

I think I just have an idea in my head about how big an adventure game should be, so it’s hard for me to design one that’s much smaller than Grim Fandango or Full Throttle. There’s just a certain amount of scope needed to create a complex puzzle space and to develop a real story. At least with my brain, there is.

So we have been looking for ways to improve our project’s efficiency while reducing scope where we could along the way. All while looking for additional funds from bundle revenue, ports, etc. But when we finished the final in-depth schedule recently it was clear that these opportunistic methods weren’t going to be enough.

We looked into what it would take to finish just first half of our game—Act 1. And the numbers showed it coming in July of next year. Not this July, but July 2014. For just the first half. The full game was looking like 2015! My jaw hit the floor.

This was a huge wake-up call for all of us. If this were true, we weren’t going to have to cut the game in half, we were going to have to cut it down by 75%! What would be left? How would we even cut it down that far? Just polish up the rooms we had and ship those? Reboot the art style with a dramatically simpler look? Remove the Boy or Girl from the story? Yikes! Sad faces all around.

Would we, instead, try to find more money? You guys have been been very generous in the tip jar (thanks!) but this is a larger sum of money we were talking about. Asking a publisher for the money was out of the question because it would violate the spirit of the Kickstarter, and also, publishers. Going back to Kickstarter for it seemed wrong. Clearly, any overages were going to have to be paid by Double Fine, with our own money from the sales of our other games. That actually makes a lot of sense and we feel good about it. We have been making more money since we began self-publishing our games, but unfortunately it still would not be enough.

Then we had a strange idea. What if we made some modest cuts in order to finish the first half of the game by January instead of July, and then released that finished, polished half of the game on Steam Early Access? Backers would still have the option of not looking at it, of course, but those who were sick of waiting wouldn’t have to wait any more. They could play the first half of the game in January!

We were always planning to release the beta on Steam, but in addition to that we now have Steam Early Access, which is a new opportunity that actually lets you charge money for pre-release content. That means we could actually sell this early access version of the game to the public at large, and use that money to fund the remaining game development. The second part of the game would come in a free update a few months down the road, closer to April-May.

So, everybody gets to play the game sooner, and we don’t have to cut the game down drastically. Backers still get the whole game this way—nobody has to pay again for the second half.

And whatever date we start selling the early release, backers still have exclusive beta access before that, as promised in the Kickstarter.

I want to point out that Broken Age’s schedule changes have nothing to do with the team working slowly. They have been kicking ass and the game looks, plays, and sounds amazing. It’s just taking a while because I designed too much game, as I pretty much always do. But we’re pulling it in, and the good news is that the game’s design is now 100% done, so most of the unknowns are now gone and it’s not going to get any bigger.

With this shipping solution I think we’re balancing the size of the game and the realities of funding it pretty well. We are still working out the details and exact dates, but we’d love to hear your thoughts. This project has always been something we go through together and the ultimate solution needs to be something we all feel good about.

In the meantime, I’m hoping you are enjoying the documentary and like the progress you’re seeing on Broken Age. I’m really exciting about how it’s coming together, I can’t wait for you to see more of it, and I feel good about finally having a solid plan on how to ship it!

Thanks for reading,

Tim

Kotaku

#2 Posted by JayEH (518 posts) -

Maybe this will be that first Kickstarter fail

#3 Edited by mellotronrules (1172 posts) -

iiiinteresting. i'm not a backer, so i don't care one way or the other- but it seems the other shoe has dropped. i'll be interested in seeing how backers and press react. this was the first big one after all, so this is sort of significant.

#4 Posted by Brendan (7687 posts) -

@mellotronrules: The other shoe hasn't dropped. They're still releasing the full game, only staggering it to maintain the original vision.

#5 Edited by mellotronrules (1172 posts) -

@brendan said:

@mellotronrules: The other shoe hasn't dropped. They're still releasing the full game, only staggering it to maintain the original vision.

...and soliciting more money. and staggering it. i'm not saying that ruins everything (as a non-investor, i'm still psyched as hell for this game), but it isn't 'according to plan' or 'as promised' either.

#6 Posted by Solidsnak (123 posts) -

As someone who backed for a meager $15, getting a game closer to old $50 games in exchange for waiting longer is totally fine. Also the ongoing documentary is super interesting on it's own, even if they fail spectacularly I've gotten hours of entertainment already and don't regret any money spent.

#7 Edited by Hunter5024 (5543 posts) -

When so much of the money being used to develop the game is coming from people purchasing it, I really wonder how many sales they're going to get once it's finally out. I hope that it doesn't end up bombing.

#8 Edited by joshthebear (2700 posts) -

Hmmm, not so sure how I feel about this.

#9 Edited by TheHT (10890 posts) -

When so much of the money being used to develop the game is coming from people purchasing it, I really wonder how many sales they're going to get once it's finally out. I hope that it doesn't end up bombing.

Hmm, yeah. I wonder how those figures work out in the end.

#10 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11477 posts) -

I'm not surprised, and I wouldn't be surprised if Wasteland 2 was delayed into early 2014 as well.

#11 Posted by cthomer5000 (744 posts) -

When so much of the money being used to develop the game is coming from people purchasing it, I really wonder how many sales they're going to get once it's finally out. I hope that it doesn't end up bombing.

Exactly. They are now taking what would have been 4 million in profit (maybe 6, the phrasing in the latest video is a bit unclear), and using it just to finish the game.

We're looking at a 4 million dollar budget turning into 10+ before this finishes. No wonder this industry is spiraling out of control.

#12 Edited by Hunter5024 (5543 posts) -

@cthomer5000 said:

@hunter5024 said:

When so much of the money being used to develop the game is coming from people purchasing it, I really wonder how many sales they're going to get once it's finally out. I hope that it doesn't end up bombing.

Exactly. They are now taking what would have been 4 million in profit (maybe 6, the phrasing in the latest video is a bit unclear), and using it just to finish the game.

We're looking at a 4 million dollar budget turning into 10+ before this finishes. No wonder this industry is spiraling out of control.

Presumably they don't intend to use the entire thing, however I have to wonder what kind of position this will put them in. If they spend a large portion of their profit on finishing the game, and then don't get anything back, then their company will probably be in a lot of trouble.

#13 Posted by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

This seems like a rather reasonable solution to their issue. I continue to look forward to the final game.

#14 Posted by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

When so much of the money being used to develop the game is coming from people purchasing it, I really wonder how many sales they're going to get once it's finally out. I hope that it doesn't end up bombing.

From how I understand the way in which they have budgeted the game, even if no one besides backers and those who buy the early access version decides to purchase the game, they'll have basically broken even on the title. So, even in the unlikely scenario where it bombs, it would still be a profitable title for them. Basically, it's already a successful game, and even with additional costs, they would just need limited sales to consider it an altogether worthwhile pursuit.

And that's just a hypothetical, as I see more reason to believe it will sell decently than not sell at all. I wouldn't claim that it might make a huge splash and rake in the dough, but it seems poised to be a nice little success for them. Ultimately, Double Fine's goal is in making sure every game is budgeted so that it at least breaks even and then makes some level of profit; that way they can keep people employed and keep making games. Not having a massive success isn't devastating, as they plan on minimal success with some hopes that it might do even more. A game like Brutal Legend was considered a flop by many people since it didn't sell gangbusters, but it still made a considerable profit. And it helped fund many more games.

They don't want to go into debt in the hopes of a big win; they want to stay at even/some profit this entire process. That way, even if only those who backed it or bought in early get the game, they'll have done alright. This move seems like the most responsible decision they could have made considering their desired quality for the final game, and it will likely mean a better game in the end for backers and anyone else who wants to enjoy it.

#15 Edited by Hunter5024 (5543 posts) -

@truthtellah: Thanks for clearing that up dude. I have no problems with this strategy as a gamer, it just made me worry about them as a company. I don't have that much information on the matter though, because I haven't been able to see the documentary yet.

#16 Edited by golguin (3843 posts) -

Doesn't bother me. The email explained the situation and "Episode 10: Part One of Something Great" of the documentary behind making Broken Age is out so I'll watch that later. I don't think anyone who backed the game and has been watching the development videos is going to have any issues.

Are there any backers here that have an issue with this? It sounds like we'll be getting a more robust and enriched experience than what we had originally paid for and that seems like a win to me.

#17 Posted by TurboMan (7402 posts) -

weird how duplicate threads always get more posts than the original ones

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#18 Posted by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

@hunter5024: Yeah, I can see why them hoping to get more money might worry some, but this is more of a matter of them wanting to maintain it as a success which they -at least- break even on, not a matter of them possibly failing to deliver. They could get publisher assistance or a loan to make up the difference, but they don't want to grab that debt and gamble on it not paying off. For them as a developer, this solution allows the project to remain fully independently funded, and it allows people to both get early access to the game and enjoy a more polished experience in the end.

#19 Edited by GrantHeaslip (1525 posts) -

I get what Shafer's saying, and given the circumstances, I guess it makes sense, but I think people are being far too quick to give DoubleFine the benefit of the doubt here. They asked for $400,000, and said the plan was to release in October. Now they've got $3.5m, they need more money, and they might get the first half out in January? His statement is written in a pleasant, conversational tone, but the message is basically "hey, we're not going to do what we promised because I didn't manage this project properly, and you don't have any say in the matter."

I suppose if you understand the nature of Kickstarter going in, this might not be a huge surprise, but a lot of Kickstarter projects are presented as glorified pre-orders or relatively certain "X money for Y product" transactions, and those running them benefit from that false degree of certainty. There's a having a cake and eating it too dynamic going on here: projects get backing by promising dates and scope, but get to unilaterally change the terms of the transaction after the cheque's cleared. Would they have received all of this money if the timeline was 11-16 months all along, rather than the 8 they claimed?

Whether or not this is the reality of how game development works or not, they promised a product, timeline, and budget, and are now making a different product, on a different timeline, on a different budget. If this were Precursor Games and not DoubleFine, I can't help but picture how many "what a shitshow, fuck these guys!" responses there would be. Sure, DoubleFine's got a much better reputation, but they haven't shipped a Kickstarter project yet, and conveniently chose to delay this news until just after the Massive Chalice funding closed.

#20 Posted by Nightriff (4915 posts) -

Now if people want to get pissed they can. I love doublefine and what they do but now asking for more money, a delay (I thought it was supposed to be released in September), etc. I hope they pull through and release a fantastic game because they can't release a mediocre one now, too much expectations now.

#21 Posted by Capum15 (4813 posts) -

@grantheaslip: The way I see it is that the original idea was for a small, relatively short game for $400k. That was the expectations of everyone when they funded the Kickstarter. Maybe not when it hit 3 million, but still. They managed to get more money to make a better, longer game, and even though it's only apparently half done, it still would seem to be much more than what the original game would be. And then there's all the extra stuff people got from funding it; the videos and whatnot.

But then again, I didn't back it so I'm probably just talking out of my ass or something, as I don't know how most of those people feel (though the ones I have talked to are totally fine with it). Yeah it sucks but it's still more than what would originally have happened.

#22 Edited by Aegon (5403 posts) -

@turboman said:

weird how duplicate threads always get more posts than the original ones

Lol, Turbo, I love your vids, but look at the date for the thread (2:24 ago for mine and 2:20 ago for yours). The mod even explained it in your thread. Yours is the duplicate. No need to make a big deal out of it.

#23 Posted by TurboMan (7402 posts) -

@aegon said:

@turboman said:

weird how duplicate threads always get more posts than the original ones

Lol, Turbo, I love your vids, but look at the date for the thread (2:24 ago for mine and 2:20 ago for yours). The mod even explained it in your thread. Yours is the duplicate. No need to make a big deal out of it.

I made a mistake :O

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#24 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7051 posts) -

This seems like a rather reasonable solution to their issue. I continue to look forward to the final game.

My thoughts exactly, you reasonable son of a bitch, you.

#25 Posted by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

@truthtellah said:

This seems like a rather reasonable solution to their issue. I continue to look forward to the final game.

My thoughts exactly, you reasonable son of a bitch, you.

Why thank you, you understandable piece of shit.

#26 Posted by villainy (538 posts) -

@turboman: Eh? While you can't really tell now with the edit and the way Giant Bomb displays times, this one was up about 4 minutes earlier originally. I checked specifically because I thought it was funny how yours was ever so slightly behind.

Earlier I was going to make some stupid comment in your thread about how you should go with a ceramic rotor to help with the lag or something, but I decided against it. Now I have apparently changed my mind and I am sorry.

#27 Edited by jakob187 (21642 posts) -

I think people have forgotten the part where I don't give a shit if they even release a game. I think that one a year, we should have a holiday where we throw money at Tim Schafer and he does whatever the fuck he wants with it. Because of that, we've had some pretty kick-ass stuff so far...

...except Brazen. We do not talk of Brazen anymore.

#28 Posted by Aegon (5403 posts) -

@jakob187 said:

I think people have forgotten the part where I don't give a shit if they even release a game. I think that one a year, we should have a holiday where we throw money at Tim Schafer and he does whatever the fuck he wants with it. Because of that, we've had some pretty kick-ass stuff so far...

...except Brazen. We do not talk of Brazen anymore.

No Brazen, but Massive Chalice sounds like it could be a really fun game if it gets executed well.

#29 Posted by TurboMan (7402 posts) -

@jakob187: You shouldn't really judge a game that was put together in two weeks.

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#30 Posted by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

@turboman said:

@jakob187: You shouldn't really judge a game that was put together in two weeks.

I don't think he's insulting Brazen. He appears to be making a reference to a joke made in the Massive Chalice pitch video, wherein they said, "Don't bring up Brazen," with Brad Muir who remains saddened that they could not find a publisher for it. Yet now he is happy because he can make Massive Chalice!

#31 Posted by golguin (3843 posts) -

I get what Shafer's saying, and given the circumstances, I guess it makes sense, but I think people are being far too quick to give DoubleFine the benefit of the doubt here. They asked for $400,000, and said the plan was to release in October. Now they've got $3.5m, they need more money, and they might get the first half out in January? His statement is written in a pleasant, conversational tone, but the message is basically "hey, we're not going to do what we promised because I didn't manage this project properly, and you don't have any say in the matter."

I suppose if you understand the nature of Kickstarter going in, this might not be a huge surprise, but a lot of Kickstarter projects are presented as glorified pre-orders or relatively certain "X money for Y product" transactions, and those running them benefit from that false degree of certainty. There's a having a cake and eating it too dynamic going on here: projects get backing by promising dates and scope, but get to unilaterally change the terms of the transaction after the cheque's cleared. Would they have received all of this money if the timeline was 11-16 months all along, rather than the 8 they claimed?

Whether or not this is the reality of how game development works or not, they promised a product, timeline, and budget, and are now making a different product, on a different timeline, on a different budget. If this were Precursor Games and not DoubleFine, I can't help but picture how many "what a shitshow, fuck these guys!" responses there would be. Sure, DoubleFine's got a much better reputation, but they haven't shipped a Kickstarter project yet, and conveniently chose to delay this news until just after the Massive Chalice funding closed.

Backers don't seem to have an issue with the bigger scope and longer wait. I'm a backer, I paid my money, and I don't care. Where is the problem?

#32 Posted by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

@grantheaslip: Are you a backer of the Kickstarter? Because, if so, I'm frankly shocked by your response. They've been amazingly clear throughout the process of making the game, and I can hardly even imagine a Kickstarter project that has been so in line with what most backers want. What you're saying makes no sense considering how they have handled this, and if you're not a backer, why are you acting like you know anything about how they have managed this project and delivered to those who have supported them?

I'm a backer, and while I am still very much wanting the game sooner rather than later, I don't believe they could have possibly been clearer throughout this process. Backers are aware of how the game is progressing, and I appreciate that they went this direction instead of possibly bringing in a producer or other third party besides their audience. This keeps them independent and will hopefully lead to an even better final game. While I can understand some general reservations, they have given me nothing but confidence in what they will be delivering in the end.

#33 Posted by c0l0nelp0c0rn1 (1803 posts) -

They could tide us over by obtaining the rights to Tim Schafer's older stuff, and reselling it on GOG and Steam. I would buy Grim Fandango for like sixty dollars.

#34 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

Oh man I wish I could back out of this project. Not only because of this mess but also because I really hate the art design of this game....

Why is it possible that a way more ambitious game like Project Eternity does everything so much better in every possible regard? Double fine seems to be really incompetent in making and managing budget for games....

#35 Edited by Chaser324 (6325 posts) -

@grantheaslip: They may have originally scoped and planned for a $400k game, but after getting $3.5m, I think people would have been disappointed if they didn't substantially expand the scope. That expanded scope means longer development time and greater risk (which can in turn lead to unanticipated costs).

They've been incredibly transparent throughout their entire process, and as a backer, I really have no problem with this. I certainly prefer this approach in comparison to other games that I've backed that fall completely off the radar with no updates for six months and then resurface just to say the game's release is being pushed back.

Moderator
#36 Edited by HerpDerp (133 posts) -

@capum15: No, you're right. After it was funded, Tim sent out a message to backers talking about how the scope of the game had changed and they might be a little past their planned release date. People probably weren't expecting this, but in order to keep the team fed and owning homes, as well as fans receiving their copies, it seems like a easy enough pill to swallow in my opinion.

Tim said in the beginning, the game would either be a huge success! Or a colossal failure caught on camera. So far, it's been great, and there is nothing that has changed. People are suddenly freaking out and becoming the evil publishers that DF was trying to escape from, putting on their tinfoil hats shouting "Kickstarter is a failure!" and "Don't trust Doublefine with your money, the game will never come out!".

#37 Posted by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

@theht said:

@hunter5024 said:

When so much of the money being used to develop the game is coming from people purchasing it, I really wonder how many sales they're going to get once it's finally out. I hope that it doesn't end up bombing.

Hmm, yeah. I wonder how those figures work out in the end.

They have a better then most chance of succeeding precisely because they already sold their game. They already know they have made x many dollars, as opposed to a predicted sales number based on previous sales data.

This game has, for 15$, made more then some video games make in their life. And they haven't even delivered a product. He is a genius.

If I was Tim Schafer, I would put this out, losing money our not, and make it the best product I ever made. Just so that when we put up our 4th or 5th kickstarter, asking for Broken Age 2, or Psychonauts 2, people would be willing to give 30$ for it.

Also Even if we lost money, you would gain knowledge, knowledge about how much to ask for, knowledge about how to temper your standards, knowledge about how to work the crowd, knowledge about the many ways people can contribute.

For example at the start they only had kickstarter, then they added a tier for 1$ then they added paypal, and so on and so on.

#38 Posted by project343 (2812 posts) -

As a backer, I'm fine with this. I just wish Double Fine didn't give off the vibe of a studio constantly in a state of financial implosion. Their PC port of Brutal Legend and the Double Fine Humble Bundle feel like quick cash grabs to pull them out of the trainwreck that poor high-level management has put them in.

#39 Posted by TurboMan (7402 posts) -

As a backer, I'm fine with this. I just wish Double Fine didn't give off the vibe of a studio constantly in a state of financial implosion. Their PC port of Brutal Legend and the Double Fine Humble Bundle feel like quick cash grabs to pull them out of the trainwreck that poor high-level management has put them in.

it's hard not to give off that vibe when it's true.

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#40 Edited by GrantHeaslip (1525 posts) -

@truthtellah said:

@grantheaslip: Are you a backer of the Kickstarter? Because, if so, I'm frankly shocked by your response. They've been amazingly clear throughout the process of making the game, and I can hardly even imagine a Kickstarter project that has been so in line with what most backers want. What you're saying makes no sense considering how they have handled this, and if you're not a backer, why are you acting like you know anything about how they have managed this project and delivered to those who have supported them?

I'm a backer, and while I am still very much wanting the game sooner rather than later, I don't believe they could have possibly been clearer throughout this process. Backers are aware of how the game is progressing, and I appreciate that they went this direction instead of possibly bringing in a producer or other third party besides their audience. This keeps them independent and will hopefully lead to an even better final game. While I can understand some general reservations, they have given me nothing but confidence in what they will be delivering in the end.

I'm not a backer, but that doesn't mean my opinion is completely void.

If you're fine with this, great, I think you've got a lot of company, but when you use the term "backers" as a catch-all, you're presuming that everyone else is on the same page as you. Do you not think there are backers who are unhappy with the final product being pushed back to July 2014 (if not later)? Does the fact that they need to sell half of the game (with "modest cuts"?) on Steam to be able to afford to make the second half concern you?

I don't think these guys are evil or anything, but there's clearly been some mismanagement of the project and/or expectations here, and when they're sitting on $3m of other people's money (and in many ways have the fate of Kickstarter as a legitimate game funding method in their hands), they really can't be doing that.

@grantheaslip: They may have originally scoped and planned for a $400k game, but after getting $3.5m, I think people would have been disappointed if they didn't substantially expand the scope. That expanded scope means longer development time and greater risk (which can in turn lead to unanticipated costs).

They've been incredibly transparent throughout their entire process, and as a backer, I really have no problem with this. I certainly prefer this approach in comparison to other games that I've backed that fall completely off the radar with no updates for six months and then resurface just to say the game's release is being pushed back.

I should have specified: I was talking about the change in scope that's required them to need outside money, not the original Kickstarter windfall that they had no control over. They've known they had that $3m (after fees, I think it might be even less) since before the Kickstarter even closed -- I'm not sure why they needed 4 months to figure out what the implications of it were.

#41 Posted by Chaser324 (6325 posts) -

@grantheaslip: I don't doubt that there could be some management issues. Running a company in the video game industry in 2013 is pretty damn difficult, so there are going to be some mistakes made.

The point I was making is that scaling a $400k game into a $3mil game isn't trivial, and I don't think that it's fair to interpret some missteps in that process as being indicative of a broader issue plaguing the company.

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#42 Posted by GrantHeaslip (1525 posts) -

@grantheaslip: I don't doubt that there could be some management issues. Running a company in the video game industry in 2013 is pretty damn difficult, so there are going to be some mistakes made.

The point I was making is that scaling a $400k game into a $3mil game isn't trivial, and I don't think that it's fair to interpret some missteps in that process as being indicative of a broader issue plaguing the company.

Again, I totally empathize with what's happened here, but I think taking Kickstarter donations should bring with it an added responsibility to keep a project in check.

It's easy to say "this kind of thing happens all the time, we just never hear about it", and that's true, but in most of those cases it's publishers, not consumers getting screwed around. The difference isn't just semantics -- when a publisher owns a developer or has a contract with them to make a game, they have recourse when the developer doesn't deliver. Crowdfunders have no contract and thus no recourse if things go sour or the developer decides to change aspects of the project.

Kickstarter is almost entirely predicated on good faith and trust. If I were some other developer thinking about starting a Kickstarter, I'd be very concerned with stuff like this, as it will only take one or two flubs to break someone's trust in the crowdfunding model as a whole. Whether or not these people were naive to expect what they were told to expect is beside the point -- if they feel wronged, they won't come back.

#43 Posted by GERALTITUDE (2941 posts) -

Man. People just don't get it. It's not mismanagement. It's not lieing. It's not greed or anything like that. This is just how it goes.

Go make a game.

Go download GameMaker or Unity, or something like that, and make a game. Just start. It's really not that difficult to understand the tools. I seriously urge everyone who is a fan of games, wants to make games, or wants to write about games, to go use these tools. No matter what you accomplish your understanding of the task at hand will increase 1000%.

Games can't be scaled on a calculator. You cannot write a giant list of assets, put a number dollar next to each, and create. It doesn't work. Never will. Everything is an estimate, and all estimates are always wrong. Is there any Kickstarter game that released on time? No. Why? Because a due date for a game is stupid. That's what breaks most licensed games... I thought we all knew that?

Most Kickstarters communicate way less than Double Fine, and that's why this news gets nothing but a "Sounds good to me Tim".

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#44 Posted by Baillie (4039 posts) -

I backed just to watch the documentary and it's fantastic.

#45 Posted by TheHBK (5463 posts) -

Shows you Tim Schaefer is full of shit. I don't know any other industry where having to change your promised product or delaying it or asking for more money is acceptable or even responded to with "Oh that's good", "I am ok with that.", "Let them delay it to make it better."

From what I know of being a professional, of doing work that needs to go out on time and be done well, that shit don't fly. You have your plan, you do it well, and you do it on time and it is a big no no to go back and ask for more money after you promised you could do it on the budget, that YOU proposed.

#46 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

Man. People just don't get it. It's not mismanagement. It's not lieing. It's not greed or anything like that. This is just how it goes.

Go make a game.

Go download GameMaker or Unity, or something like that, and make a game. Just start. It's really not that difficult to understand the tools. I seriously urge everyone who is a fan of games, wants to make games, or wants to write about games, to go use these tools. No matter what you accomplish your understanding of the task at hand will increase 1000%.

Games can't be scaled on a calculator. You cannot write a giant list of assets, put a number dollar next to each, and create. It doesn't work. Never will. Everything is an estimate, and all estimates are always wrong. Is there any Kickstarter game that released on time? No. Why? Because a due date for a game is stupid. That's what breaks most licensed games... I thought we all knew that?

Most Kickstarters communicate way less than Double Fine, and that's why this news gets nothing but a "Sounds good to me Tim".

Of course it is mismanagement. There is no excuse here. Either you accept this mismanagement or not but you should not try to make it normal. Every business project has a budget and if you don't manage your time and budget you are mostly fired. And this is not a short delay or low budget mismanagement it is a huge one. Yes he is honest but this should not excuse Shaefers lack of Business sense and abilities.

Delays are totally fine but this is more than just a delay. Why do projects like a Wasteland 2 and an Project eternity get this so much better? Because they have people with business sense and abilities.

#47 Edited by Baillie (4039 posts) -

@thehbk: Full of shit? Yes because he has lied to everyone since the start, not being explicitly clear about everything going on.

#48 Posted by ProfessorEss (7281 posts) -

@thehbk: I agree with you in principle, but I'm guessing you (like myself) work in an industry where the average client/customer isn't as willing to eat shit sandwiches.

Sure they like to make a lot of noise but at the end of the day gamers will take whatever publishers and developers feel like giving, and then complain about it, and then beg for more.

These devs/pubs know who they're dealing with so why wouldn't they take advantage of them?

#49 Posted by Budwyzer (544 posts) -

The only reason any of this is ever news, is because people know about the game while it's still just a goddamn idea. Then they expect it to come to fruition as quickly as games that are announced, yet have been produced to the point of a having gameplay footage.

People need to learn some patience. Unless you backed that Devian Dash. But then again, you deserve to lose your money for trusting a guy with a faux-hawk.

#50 Edited by johnLongview (133 posts) -

I'm still unclear on what exactly people are up in arms about. Backers (the people who actually gave money to see the project made) are still getting everything that was promised. More, even, since the scale of the game is completely different than the original idea.

DF's business acumen may be questionable, but it seems like a lot of "DOUBLE FINE IS ASKING FOR MORE MONEY?!" headlines without that actually being the case.

As for backers being upset, I've yet to see a self-identified backer (not an investor, as people keep saying - an investor invests, which has the expectation of return on said investment) upset about the idea that they'll be getting a bigger / larger-scale game for the money they gave.