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Edited by happymeowmeow

The E3 afterhours 'cast was great, thanks for that guys.

Agree about the weird narrative dissonance (is that the phrase?) in the Uncharted games between happy go lucky Nathan Drake and his murder sprees, and that The Last of Us seems to be a reaction to that....from the footage that was shown, they really seem to be trying to make the violence seem ..what's a good word...not so casual? horrible, but necessary for survival...of course, then you have the applause from the audience at the shotgun blast to the face at the end...

Posted by paulunga

Saying Volition is the one thing going for THQ is really unfair towards Relic and Vigil Games. The 40k games are awesome and so was Darksiders.

Posted by impartialgecko

@squirrelnacho: In a form of entertainment where people constantly want new things everyone gets pissed off when something isn't exactly the same as the thing before it that carried its name.

Posted by bunkerbuster05

@ildon said:

Marvel Ultimate Alliance Endurance Run?

Posted by impartialgecko

@paulunga: But would you utter Darksiders in the same breath as you would SR3? I agree though, Vigil especially seem totally solid. Can't speak to Relic's capabilities though.

Posted by paulunga

@adam1808 said:

@paulunga: But would you utter Darksiders in the same breath as you would SR3? I agree though, Vigil especially seem totally solid. Can't speak to Relic's capabilities though.

Darksiders is the best 3D Zelda-style game in existence. It is much better than Skyward Sword. So I guess yeah, I would.

Posted by impartialgecko

@paulunga: Can I gauge your enthusiasm for Darksiders 2? Because if it's that good should I be frantically playing the first game before the sequel hits?

Posted by paulunga

@adam1808: I don't know about frantically, you've still got two months. ;) But yes, I'm really looking forward to Darksiders 2, though I'm not sure what happened in-between games since it doesn't seem to continue directly after the ending of the first one (which is a total "Fuck Yes!" moment btw).

Edited by mnzy
@adam1808 said:

@paulunga: Can I gauge your enthusiasm for Darksiders 2? Because if it's that good should I be frantically playing the first game before the sequel hits?

You definitely should play Darksiders, it's a great game. And cheap now, too. 
Posted by JRock3x8

Giant Bomb roadshow Chicago. Hell yah...

Posted by Berserker976

@Masha2932 said:

I thought the applause at the Last of Us was because it was the end of the demo. The shooting came at the same time the demo ended.

Exactly this. Also I have no idea how the main character mercilessly executing a man begging for his life makes this disappointingly similar to Uncharted where you're mowing down dozens of guys and cracking wise about it. The whole Last of Us conversation they had was just nonsensical to me.

Posted by dropabombonit

The bomb is back

Posted by impartialgecko

@paulunga:Okay I'm in. I was halfway there after Patrick's waxing lyrical about it, but I'm not as much of a huge Zelda fan as him.

Edited by Tr0n

Yeah... I don't mind finally seeing a "non heroic" female (or male for that matter) that is being put thru stuff. She's moaning because she's hurt. That's what people do when they're in pain. Shocking, I know.

I also don't mind people cheering when something cool happens on screen, even if it's a player shooting someone else in the face.

It's video games. You see meaningless, detached, cold violence in games every day and that specific scene bothers you because it's, what, cruel? Are you serious?

Posted by csl316

I'm across from a Portillo's right now.

Edited by geirr

If I'm ever to be interested in a story in a video game again, it needs new perspectives and female leads could do just that if they give them a chance to be a little 'weak' sometimes. All humans have their weak moments, it's just seemingly forbidden to show females having a weak moment in games. Hell even weak, or let's say nuanced instead, men are rare in this media.

Tomb Raider is pretty much the only interesting game out there for me now and I'm not going to pretend to be disgusted by it potentially stereotyping it's targeted audience yet again. This is media, all media wishing to sell will target stereotypes since, true or not, that's where entertainment is.

Posted by Death_Burnout

What kind of crazy world do I live in where Joe Dodson is not a figment of my imagination?

@OneManX said:

@Humanity said:

This whole Bombcast is like some never before sequel to Grumpy Old Men. Some of their comments seem so negative and nitpicky. I was listening to Jeff in somewhat disbelief about the Tomb Raider incident because I didn't see what the deal was. The fact that she is a 20 year old on an island and as the player you're supposed to protect her - yah that makes sense. Disgusting and fuck that game? I mean whats going on here guys - at the end of the day it's just a game.

That thread about jaded cynicism in the Forum really comes to mind. I wonder if Vinny felt just as disgusted as he's usually the one voice that goes against the rest and that I find myself agreeing with.

Yeah that one seemed to be making a mountain out of a molehill. Like stop for one second and just think about for it a second. And yeah he could of said it better, but you get the general idea of what he was going for.

@Berserker976 said:

@Masha2932 said:

I thought the applause at the Last of Us was because it was the end of the demo. The shooting came at the same time the demo ended.

Exactly this. Also I have no idea how the main character mercilessly executing a man begging for his life makes this disappointingly similar to Uncharted where you're mowing down dozens of guys and cracking wise about it. The whole Last of Us conversation they had was just nonsensical to me.

Guys. What happened to the Bombcast?

For the record I don't actually know what happened at the end of the PS3 Conference or Media Briefing whatever it was. It was like 3 in the morning, I fell asleep and missed it, so I can't comment on it, but if that is how it really happened or how it was actually perceived then this is all so stupid. I shall go and watch it now to check. I should also state I'm not for all the cheering at nonsensical violence in general, not saying this was that yet obviously...

Posted by csl316

You know, people may have just been cheering the full demo for The Last of Us. That final shotgun moment was a shocking culmination of that whole encounter. It really was impactful. The visceral violence is there to sell the world as a really messed up and dangerous place. That little slice of the game showed what they're doing differently while retaining Naughty Dog's strengths. I would've clapped, too. Not for the shotgun moment, but what the whole demo represented.

Posted by Death_Burnout

Right so I did just go and check, the moment of cheering after slamming dude's head into the side of that dresser or cabinet, really dumb, but the game does have some really dirty guttural, dare I say visceral combat in it that is worth cheering about in a figurative sense.

In terms of the shotgun end though it's hard to say, but regardless, it was the end of the demo, with title card....Actually the more I think about it the more I realise that, yeah, it was just cheering for the whole demo. Now you could argue that the game shows better when it is non violent and more focused on survival (the combat in the demo was incredibly well paced anyway) but that is down to opinion.

Posted by Humanity

@Death_Burnout: what is currently happening is that the crew seem to be way down on some games. Maybe they need a break from gaming for a while and get a fresh new perspective because lately it's just a wave of negativity for most titles from the people that I've associated with just having fun.

I find it weird to hear these guys - who I always see as kind of goofballs that don't take a lot of this stuff too seriously - all of a sudden ragging on everything. You wear a costume to E3, what are you doing here man! Applause because of violence, what is gaming coming to! Stop getting excited for this new WatchDogs IP just announced at E3 man..we haven't seen the game in full swing so lets err on the side of cautious pessimism.

I thought GB was all about crazy shit like Kratos ripping out a giant monster brain. I mean it's goofy as hell - thats the sort of stuff that made Soldier of Fortune so comical rather than serious. Like I said, maybe they need a break.

Posted by simkas

@Sooty: By that logic MP1 and MP2 were nothing but shoot guys. You spent the entire game doing nothing but shooting guys, hell, almost all action games are really nothing but shooting guys. It's about how the shooting guys part plays and MP3 does it better than any other action game and even better than MP1 and 2 did, simply because there's far more options how to do it. In the first games, it was just run around and do dives, MP3 has that plus a cover system, there's the roll that adds a lot more variation to the action or being able to stay on the ground after landing after a dive. And even just the shooting part is far more satisfying than any other game, mainly because of how well all guns handle, how amazingly smooth all animations look and how amazingly everyone reacts to getting shot due to Euphoria.

Story-wise yeah, it might be not as good as MP1 and 2 and maybe not even as good as some other games, but it wasn't bad, it made sense, it didn't feel rushed, it wasn't filled with plotholes. Gameplay-wise, MP3 is miles ahead of most other action games that are focused on shooting.

Posted by JesterPC238

You guys are amazing. After almost a full week of podcasts you still pull out a Bombcast this week? This is why you have my $5 every month.

Edited by RVonE

@pepsimaxofborg said:

If I'm ever to be interested in a story in a video game again, it needs new perspectives and female leads could do just that if they give them a chance to be a little 'weak' sometimes. All humans have their weak moments, it's just seemingly forbidden to show females having a weak moment in games. Hell even weak, or let's say nuanced instead, men are rare in this media.

Tomb Raider is pretty much the only interesting game out there for me now and I'm not going to pretend to be disgusted by it potentially stereotyping it's targeted audience yet again. This is media, all media wishing to sell will target stereotypes since, true or not, that's where entertainment is.

I don't think they were griping about Lara (Laura) showing weakness. They even said as much that they're interested in seeing her grow into being strong eventually. The part that disgusted Jeff was the intersection of the developer's comment on how the player will want to protect Lara and some specific moments in what was shown that can translate (in a reductive manner, perhaps) to the player choosing to "rescue" Lara--basically White-Knighting: The Game. I don't know that I wholly agree but I think the statement by this Rosenberg guy are kind of odd and unfortunate.

Also, your comment on how the media supposedly works comes across as really weird. Are you saying that because things are as they are we should just accept that? I guess that's one way to live.

EDIT: I think some of the comments in the thread on GAF are hilarious. For those interested.

Posted by Sammo21

Drop a bomb on it.

Edited by TentPole

Marvel Ultimate Alliance is kinda not good. And by that I mean that the game has not aged as well as the Legends games.

Posted by Rmack

@Humanity: I agree with everything you said, and I find it weird I'm saying that seeing as these guys were talking about how they thought people were being too negative during E3.

Edited by Ehker

@Berserker976 said:

@Masha2932 said:

I thought the applause at the Last of Us was because it was the end of the demo. The shooting came at the same time the demo ended.

Exactly this. Also I have no idea how the main character mercilessly executing a man begging for his life makes this disappointingly similar to Uncharted where you're mowing down dozens of guys and cracking wise about it. The whole Last of Us conversation they had was just nonsensical to me.

I was offended at people cheering for Internet Explorer. Now that was some sick shit!

But yes, obviously cheering at a new game and experience like seeing a guy beg doesn't mean the crowd was made of psychopaths, and at the end of the demo no less like you said. Bombcast crew seemed to really want to insert their objectivity by criticizing what others were stoked by.

Tomb Raider outrage also was also odd. Whatever they're a bit out of whack from a week long event.

Posted by Teoball

Great talk guys.

The criticism of the Tomb Raider PR was just fucking stupid though. Of course they want you to feel for the character. Still one of the games I'm most excited about.

Posted by Grillbar

diablo 3 auction house is not up in Europe until the 15th :(

Posted by squirrelnacho

@simkas: You either did not play MP1 and MP2, or don't remember it well.

You could roll around, without bullet time in MP1 and 2, and you could stay on the ground after a dive.

The story in Max Payne 3 was dumb and over the top.

Posted by simkas

@squirrelnacho: Sounds more like you didn't play either of them at all. You couldn't do any kind of roll in either of those 2 and you could only stay on the ground after a dive in MP2 and that was only for as long as you were still holding the fire button. Please try not to make stuff up just to tell someone they're wrong.

And how was the story in MP3 over the top? Remember MP1 and how the final fight was you dropping a massive antenna on a helicopter and causing it, along with a part of the building to come crashing down onto the street? Are you gonna say that wasn't over the top?

Posted by Hashbrowns

@simkas said:

@squirrelnacho: Sounds more like you didn't play either of them at all. You couldn't do any kind of roll in either of those 2 and you could only stay on the ground after a dive in MP2 and that was only for as long as you were still holding the fire button. Please try not to make stuff up just to tell someone they're wrong.

Just run in any direction aside from forward and jump.

Posted by simkas

@Hashbrowns: Okay maybe "any kind of roll" isn't true but that is hardly comparable to the roll in MP3.

Posted by BigChief

I'm so glad they talked about the trailer weirdness. I feel like I've heard devs making excuses for trailers a lot lately. LIke, "Oh, we still have all the subtlety you guys want, that stuff just wouldn't work in a trailer/demo." I've been hearing it so much, in fact, that I was beginning to wonder what the point of the actiony trailers are. If they have to make that many excuses for the trailers, I wonder if they're doing more harm than good to their game's image. Glad the guys brought that up finally, it's been bugging me for a while.

Posted by depecheload

@Ehker said:

@Berserker976 said:

@Masha2932 said:

I thought the applause at the Last of Us was because it was the end of the demo. The shooting came at the same time the demo ended.

Exactly this. Also I have no idea how the main character mercilessly executing a man begging for his life makes this disappointingly similar to Uncharted where you're mowing down dozens of guys and cracking wise about it. The whole Last of Us conversation they had was just nonsensical to me.

I was offended at people cheering for Internet Explorer. Now that was some sick shit!

But yes, obviously cheering at a new game and experience like seeing a guy beg doesn't mean the crowd was made of psychopaths, and at the end of the demo no less like you said. Bombcast crew seemed to really want to insert their objectivity by criticizing what others were stoked by.

Tomb Raider outrage also was also odd. Whatever they're a bit out of whack from a week long event.

Or maybe they are willing to acknowledge sexist bullshit, which is what that interview was.

Edited by RVonE

@Teoball said:

Great talk guys.

The criticism of the Tomb Raider PR was just fucking stupid though. Of course they want you to feel for the character. Still one of the games I'm most excited about.

Do you feel like you want to protect Nathan Drake?

Also, you can be critical of something and be excited for it at the same time.

Posted by TheSlothKing

I have no idea why ,but I thought this podcast is probably the worst of all the bombcasts I've listened to. Maybe it is because of the stupid gossip or the cynicism.

Posted by TheHBK

@RVonE said:

@Teoball said:

Great talk guys.

The criticism of the Tomb Raider PR was just fucking stupid though. Of course they want you to feel for the character. Still one of the games I'm most excited about.

Do you feel like you want to protect Nathan Drake?

Also, you can be critical of something and be excited for it at the same time.

I agree. Also it is hard for me to take the whole, protect her thing seriously. Isn't that we try to do in games? Stay alive? Also, it is hard to feel for her during gameplay and protect her, when she is getting fucked up in every single cut scene they have shown us. At some point, I just gotta say, enough. I get it, she is hurt.

Posted by AssInAss

I'm glad Ryan blames himself for succumbing to Brad not making Saint's Row 3 not getting GoTY over Skyrim.

Posted by Ehker

@depecheload said:

@Ehker said:

@Berserker976 said:

@Masha2932 said:

I thought the applause at the Last of Us was because it was the end of the demo. The shooting came at the same time the demo ended.

Exactly this. Also I have no idea how the main character mercilessly executing a man begging for his life makes this disappointingly similar to Uncharted where you're mowing down dozens of guys and cracking wise about it. The whole Last of Us conversation they had was just nonsensical to me.

I was offended at people cheering for Internet Explorer. Now that was some sick shit!

But yes, obviously cheering at a new game and experience like seeing a guy beg doesn't mean the crowd was made of psychopaths, and at the end of the demo no less like you said. Bombcast crew seemed to really want to insert their objectivity by criticizing what others were stoked by.

Tomb Raider outrage also was also odd. Whatever they're a bit out of whack from a week long event.

Or maybe they are willing to acknowledge sexist bullshit, which is what that interview was.

I think that's an overreaction, and I don't see it as a cause for writing off the game like was said on the podcast. I also don't see much ground to stand on for suddenly being hyper critical of gore or sexism so soon after celebrating games like Mortal Kombat.

Posted by ThatIndianGuy7116

I wish Vinny would be on the Bombcast more...

Posted by BigChief

@TheSlothKing said:

I have no idea why ,but I thought this podcast is probably the worst of all the bombcasts I've listened to. Maybe it is because of the stupid gossip or the cynicism.

I appreciate a little cynicism every now and then. I wouldn't be interested in the podcast if they never called out stuff that they thought was dumb or off-putting.

It helps that I agreed with almost all of their complaints.

Posted by MeatSim

Damn there is no Portillo's anywhere around here. Also make blood guns happen!

Edited by squirrelnacho

@simkas said:

@squirrelnacho: Sounds more like you didn't play either of them at all. You couldn't do any kind of roll in either of those 2 and you could only stay on the ground after a dive in MP2 and that was only for as long as you were still holding the fire button. Please try not to make stuff up just to tell someone they're wrong.

And how was the story in MP3 over the top? Remember MP1 and how the final fight was you dropping a massive antenna on a helicopter and causing it, along with a part of the building to come crashing down onto the street? Are you gonna say that wasn't over the top?

Wrong. You could roll. Also, you said staying on the ground was added in MP3, making is sound like it's not in 1 and 2, it is.

The story has a completely different tone with max pulling off far crazier stunts, silly side characters, and dialogue that is not as good as the first two. The original developer had a far better writing style and tone.

Posted by rain_elbows

I don't get the Tomb Raider backlash. I saw the comments and didn't see the reason for such outrage. I respect Jeff for his opinion, but I couldn't help but remember his prior comments about a former GS coworker that made very similar complaints about games in development.

Posted by Undeadpool

I think a lot of the "applause at violence" stuff is the same phenomenon that you'll see going to a horror movie (a real one, not a campy/slasher-style one) in the theater. There's almost always some asshole or assholes who have to prove how cool, jaded and unaffected they are, so they'll shout during quiet moments and laugh during violent ones. Now just increase those numbers exponentially and add in how easy it is to get a large crowd to start applauding and I think we've got it. No one wants to look even a LITTLE vulnerable on the internet, so instead of the "OH SHIT!" or "OOOOOO!!!" sound at violence, they go with applause.

Edited by leejunfan83

The way they just shit on games like they have no idea how much work goes into them fuck game journalists

Posted by frankepooz

I don't get all the hate Max Payne 3 gets...

The biggest gripe people seem to have is that cover seems to be ESSENTIAL and that the difficulty almost forces you to stick to cover and use bullet time to pop people off, maybe it is on console but i played it on the PC and there was a total of three times i felt that "okay, maybe i have to be in cover to complete this", I know that the ability to execute certain maneuvers varies between people but i do not think it is okay to blame the game for your own shortcomings. Now the guys touched on the story as well but personally the Max Payne games have never been about Max or the story for me, its about shooting dudes. But i totally agree that they could have done something more interesting with it than making me feel like Max is the biggest failure low-life on the planet but it doesn't bother me that much.

Sorry for various grammatical errors, I'm European.

Posted by mutha3
@RVonE said:

I don't think they were griping about Lara (Laura) showing weakness. They even said as much that they're interested in seeing her grow into being strong eventually. The part that disgusted Jeff was the intersection of the developer's comment on how the player will want to protect Lara and some specific moments in what was shown that can translate (in a reductive manner, perhaps) to the player choosing to "rescue" Lara--basically White-Knighting: The Game.

Or even more aptly put:

 
There are various interpretations of what moe is today and in the past. Joseph L. Dela Pena argues that moe is a pure, protective feeling towards a female character, without the sexualization of lolicon also known as loli.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang)
 
new lara croft is gonna be moé as fuck
Posted by Carousel

@RVonE said:

Do you feel like you want to protect Nathan Drake?

Yes.