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Posted by Venatio

The revelation that 2 Fast 2 Furious takes place in the future, after all of the current and upcoming movies, was mind blowing. I'm glad I was sitting down when I heard it.

No, Tokyo Drift takes place in the future, since Han dies but is in Fast and Furious and Fast Five

2 Fast 2 Furious takes place before Fast and Furious

Edited by Mumrik

@vaancor said:

Would a kind soul please tell me (Or PM if you're afraid to spoil for others) what it is that Brad and Patrick are so shocked and amazed by about DmC? I have no intention of playing it until a Steam sale and, admitting, as one of the "I AM NOT LIKING THIS NEW DIRECTION!" guys it's making me curious/frustrated to for the past two weeks hearing them hint at some pivotal moment. I have my two guesses based on what I've seen from Adam's review and the dance club boss but I'm really hoping those are not it.

I completed DMC. I have no idea what "moment" they're talking about. I didn't have any kind of "woah" experience at all. I liked the game btw.

Posted by ptys

I love Jeff's "Dude/Presenter Voice" when he takes the piss out of game executives... cracks me up.

Posted by Zeik

@Malaguena: What about cheat devices that you had to buy to cheat? Not everyone has access to those.

Online
Posted by Cretaceous_Bob

3.5 hours of Bombcast? My prayers are answered.

Well, my heathen yearnings are, anyway.

Edited by Brackynews

@Malaguena said:

Dont, dont ever justify them splitting YOUR game up and charging you for it.

Welcome to Giant Bomb. I don't think you're wrong, but now it's time to face the devil's advocates. ;)

When you buy a book or a movie, do you call it your book or your movie? Would you complain if the Directors Cut scenes or the interviews or the blooper reel cost $1.99 extra on iTunes? They aren't part of the movie. And yes, books cost $60, and yes, movies still cost upwards of $25-$40 (google "Japan VHS prices" for some history).

What is so unique about the format of a video game that makes it yours? Why don't you just say to yourself, "Self, this retail package isn't $60 worth of content. I'm going to wait until it drops to a value I agree with."

They can slice games into a 20-part instalment plan for all I care. I'm going to pay what I want to pay for the experience I expect to get out of it. Entitlement doesn't give me any power as a consumer, it just makes me sad and angry and nostalgic for simpler times, when in fact worse games cost more than they actually do today.

Posted by Malaguena

I just made an account to point this out guys.

I feel EA *already* crossed the line, it's alright but... they've crossed the line. You try to justify the costs by saying that if a dude wants to ruin his experience, *let him pay for it*. You know what, we called those things cheat codes and EVERYBODY had the opportunity to ruin their experience. It wasnt a privilege you bought, everybody had access to it.

Dont, dont ever justify them splitting YOUR game up and charging you for it. I love DLC but DLC that ADDS to a game, not DLC that takes something away from me and then sells it back to me, no matter how small that piece might me. Smell the salsa, the cheese or whatever. Game changing, monster gross things dont happen overnight. They happen slowly, just like EA is doing it right now. You get used to it and then you justify it.

"The water isnt so hot right now... maybe a tad hotter than it was 2 seconds ago but it's ok" thats what the frog kept thinking while it was boiled alive

Posted by walterbennet

@GaspoweR said:

@walterbennet said:

I'm towards the end of DmC and I still don't quite know what the fuss Patrick and Brad were going on about "that moment." The whole game is filled with bonkers, off-the-wall stuff. What was the singular "moment," they were referring to?

I feel that they seem to be more prone to hyperbole (Brad even more so) than the rest of the staff at times when it comes to both positive and negative comments about certain games. Brad's GOTY filibustering often comes to mind. I didn't actually like DmC as much as I would have thought initially. Admittedly, I didn't buy it since I found the combat to be "off" for some reason from the demo and I didn't like the combat mechanics as much as Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden.

I absolutely love the Bombcast, but I don't think my gaming opinions really side with any one personality among them. I can't recall a time where I completely agreed with their take on a game. Often they oversell something, and then undersell another game, or completely ignore it. *Shrug* To me, the show and the site are more about entertainment, and less a consumer's guide to games. And that's A-OK with me.

Posted by Vaancor

Would a kind soul please tell me (Or PM if you're afraid to spoil for others) what it is that Brad and Patrick are so shocked and amazed by about DmC? I have no intention of playing it until a Steam sale and, admitting, as one of the "I AM NOT LIKING THIS NEW DIRECTION!" guys it's making me curious/frustrated to for the past two weeks hearing them hint at some pivotal moment. I have my two guesses based on what I've seen from Adam's review and the dance club boss but I'm really hoping those are not it.

Posted by Zero_

@GrantHeaslip said:

The bending over backward to be nice about The Cave is kind of questionable considering how close they are to Double Fine, or at least certain people there. I'm not claiming "COLLUSION!" — I think this is simple human nature — but it seems like they would have dismissed the game pretty quick had it not been a Double Fine release.

I kind of felt that as well - I think it's really on two parts; a) their friendship with Double Fine and b) the nature of the game. I think they WANT to like the game, because they find it charming and genuine and want to see more of these sorts of games, and are kind of bummed it sucks. However, I feel GB have real strong integrity and while they might not dish it out as hard verbally, I don't think their friendship with Double Fine or anyone or company will affect their review scores.

Posted by Boom_goes_the_dynamite

Skylanders

Posted by ChernobylCow

Site has been sparse on content lately. Hopefully the bombcast will tide me over.

Edited by NTM

Before I say anything about Dead Space 3, I just want to say I really liked the game, though it does have its cons.

The things in the ice in Dead Space 3, when there were two in solo play didn't bother me, but ones that kind of did, were when there were two suit places side by side. While there are some moments where in solo play it's weird that Carver gets to those places when you hardly ever see him get there, the point about him saying something to you during two different bosses isn't really far-fetched, it's just kind of dumb the first time, 'cause it seems unrealistic that he would talk to you at that time, and in that tone.

Yeah, I feel like Carver, at least on the solo play, wasn't great, and he even refers to characters that you wouldn't know from the game but from the novel, as well as just about his story in general, like his son. If you don't read about that stuff, which I don't imagine many doing, you're not going to know this stuff and you're going to see it as a weird thing to be put in the game. I'm going to play on co-op and see what that does for him, but he was a pretty mundane character and far less important then they make him seem when you go through it on your own.

It isn't until the tenth chapter (which is a good, good amount of time into the game) that you start getting interesting attachments for your weapons, before it you pretty much only have things like, have better stasis for you and your co-op partner, and small things like that. As for the setting, I disagree with Brad here, and to my own surprise. I love space settings, but only a few hours into the space part, I was ready to go to Tau Volantis, and once I did, I really, really liked it. The only time the game felt like it had some pretty repetitive moments, and I think the worst moments in the game, are the ones where you in the interiors of places, the exteriors were great I think.

I kind of agree with Brad on some of these points, but my dislike for the problems don't go as far as his does. If I scored this game, I'd give it a four at least. And Nicole isn't Isaac's wife! Fiancee/girlfriend.

Posted by SocialChameleon

To Brad's question, the type of game where you start a timer and get a reward once the timer ends is called 'invest-express'.

Posted by JZ

Man brad does not understand that stuff in the past was cheaper and more expensive now.

Posted by BisonHero

@FierceDeity said:

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@BisonHero said:

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@Scrumdidlyumptious said:

@FierceDeity said:

@ripelivejam said:

@DeathbyYeti said:

Also "it felt like a commentary on the quicktime event" I love when Patrick "reads" into things that dont have meaning

it's called interpretation. no need to belittle him for it.

To say it amounts to "commentary" is a bit hyperbolic though.

Patrick always talks about games like he's in a high school English class. More bullshit, better marks.

Yay for anti-intellectualism and shutting down conversation!

Stop being a dick. The guy has an opinion and voiced it, you don't have to agree with it but you also don't have to dismiss it so quickly either.

I'm all for serious analytical discussion of games that have a point to make, but c'mon, DmC is not that game. It's still just a stylish brawler, except this time the story is part They Live, and takes some shots at Fox News and Wall Street and whatever it feels like. They changed the combat somewhat, but I really don't think the gameplay is where they were trying to make some big point. It's a pretty huge stretch to imagine DmC's game designer going "Yeah, I'm really gonna stick it QTEs with this aspect of the game!"

I think it is fair to say that Patrick was reading a little too much into the game.

My perspective on the issue is that one can't "read too much into" anything. The intention of the developers is irrelevant-- we can interpret something as we please so long as there is an argument to back that interpretation up. I'd say that maybe Patrick didn't state that argument, but given the chance to I'm sure he could have elaborated.

I haven't played the game, so I can't say if I disagree or agree with his interpretation of that particular moment, but I personally can't stand people who say that someone is "reading too much" into something.There's no such thing as thinking too much about something! We should all strive to think more about everything, games included.

What in the world are you talking about? The intention of the artist is irrelevent? What're you going to say next, facts are also irrelevent?

We're delving pretty deep into "university-level literature classes" territory, but RockyRaccoon37's position seems to be coming from the school of thought of The Death of the Author.

Basically, a lot of literary criticism no longer really cares what the intention of the author was, or really any influence their personal life might have had on the writing. Instead, the idea is to treat it as if it's a series of words that coalesced on its own, and if you think the work seems to have a certain theme or symbolism or whatever, as long as you can make a convincing argument, then it does.

So yeah, if you're deep enough into literary criticism (and criticism of fiction in general), then yeah, we've reached the point where real world facts are irrelevant. Postmodernism and all that. For what it's worth, I'm with you: it's lame, because everybody can be right when there's no intended meaning. You fucking hippies.

Posted by FierceDeity

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@BisonHero said:

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@Scrumdidlyumptious said:

@FierceDeity said:

@ripelivejam said:

@DeathbyYeti said:

Also "it felt like a commentary on the quicktime event" I love when Patrick "reads" into things that dont have meaning

it's called interpretation. no need to belittle him for it.

To say it amounts to "commentary" is a bit hyperbolic though.

Patrick always talks about games like he's in a high school English class. More bullshit, better marks.

Yay for anti-intellectualism and shutting down conversation!

Stop being a dick. The guy has an opinion and voiced it, you don't have to agree with it but you also don't have to dismiss it so quickly either.

I'm all for serious analytical discussion of games that have a point to make, but c'mon, DmC is not that game. It's still just a stylish brawler, except this time the story is part They Live, and takes some shots at Fox News and Wall Street and whatever it feels like. They changed the combat somewhat, but I really don't think the gameplay is where they were trying to make some big point. It's a pretty huge stretch to imagine DmC's game designer going "Yeah, I'm really gonna stick it QTEs with this aspect of the game!"

I think it is fair to say that Patrick was reading a little too much into the game.

My perspective on the issue is that one can't "read too much into" anything. The intention of the developers is irrelevant-- we can interpret something as we please so long as there is an argument to back that interpretation up. I'd say that maybe Patrick didn't state that argument, but given the chance to I'm sure he could have elaborated.

I haven't played the game, so I can't say if I disagree or agree with his interpretation of that particular moment, but I personally can't stand people who say that someone is "reading too much" into something.There's no such thing as thinking too much about something! We should all strive to think more about everything, games included.

What in the world are you talking about? The intention of the artist is irrelevent? What're you going to say next, facts are also irrelevent?

Edited by GaspoweR

@walterbennet said:

I'm towards the end of DmC and I still don't quite know what the fuss Patrick and Brad were going on about "that moment." The whole game is filled with bonkers, off-the-wall stuff. What was the singular "moment," they were referring to?

I feel that they seem to be more prone to hyperbole (Brad even more so) than the rest of the staff at times when it comes to both positive and negative comments about certain games. Brad's GOTY filibustering often comes to mind. I didn't actually like DmC as much as I would have thought initially. Admittedly, I didn't buy it since I found the combat to be "off" for some reason from the demo and I didn't like the combat mechanics as much as Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden.

Posted by Nation764

@mintyice said:

Bombcast drinking game: drink every time Patrick says "remiss"

Drink every time he says "like" and you will be dead after 5 sentences.

Posted by EDfromRED

Anybody else wish Dave was on the podcast?

Posted by Penzilneck

I perked up when I heard the guys start discussing the possibility of PS4 featuring a "Cher-button", but was immediately sorely disappointed when I realized my misunderstanding.

Posted by GaspoweR

@GrantHeaslip said:

@2HeadedNinja said:

@GrantHeaslip said:

The bending over backward to be nice about The Cave is kind of questionable considering how close they are to Double Fine, or at least certain people there. I'm not claiming "COLLUSION!" — I think this is simple human nature — but it seems like they would have dismissed the game pretty quick had it not been a Double Fine release.

What the heck are you talking about? ... The Cave is a good game that has some flaws preventing it from being great, and that is exactly what they said.

It was specifically the part where Ryan and Patrick were saying “I’m sure game development is really hard and I don’t want to be a dick about it and I don’t want this to come off as condescending BUT...”. I actually kind of agree with the sentiment, but I can’t recall the last time they so deliberately pulled their punches. I couldn’t help but hear “man, I’m sure people we know who worked on this game are listening.”

I probably wouldn’t have bothered writing the comment at all had the discussion not been followed by Vinny mentioning Castlevania and being immediately shot down with “hell no, that game sucks.”

Yep, they weren't pulling AAANNNYYYY punches when it came to Castlevania last week, but I think that was mostly from Jeff and he usually lets his comments roll out.

Posted by snattu

Brad's sandbagging of PSN/XMB is always hilarious.

Posted by robinsxe

awesome show, annoying case of imma-let-u-finish on vinnie though.

Posted by GrantHeaslip

@2HeadedNinja said:

@GrantHeaslip said:

The bending over backward to be nice about The Cave is kind of questionable considering how close they are to Double Fine, or at least certain people there. I'm not claiming "COLLUSION!" — I think this is simple human nature — but it seems like they would have dismissed the game pretty quick had it not been a Double Fine release.

What the heck are you talking about? ... The Cave is a good game that has some flaws preventing it from being great, and that is exactly what they said.

It was specifically the part where Ryan and Patrick were saying “I’m sure game development is really hard and I don’t want to be a dick about it and I don’t want this to come off as condescending BUT...”. I actually kind of agree with the sentiment, but I can’t recall the last time they so deliberately pulled their punches. I couldn’t help but hear “man, I’m sure people we know who worked on this game are listening.”

I probably wouldn’t have bothered writing the comment at all had the discussion not been followed by Vinny mentioning Castlevania and being immediately shot down with “hell no, that game sucks.”

Posted by slayergnome

For the record Playstation Allstars. Pretty bad game, and this is not taking into account the fact that the kill system is weird or the fact they could not get all the characters they wanted. There is just a total lack of features in that game.

Posted by derskusmacher

Oh man, that ATHF ref. Off the hook

Posted by RockyRaccoon37

@BisonHero said:

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@Scrumdidlyumptious said:

@FierceDeity said:

@ripelivejam said:

@DeathbyYeti said:

Also "it felt like a commentary on the quicktime event" I love when Patrick "reads" into things that dont have meaning

it's called interpretation. no need to belittle him for it.

To say it amounts to "commentary" is a bit hyperbolic though.

Patrick always talks about games like he's in a high school English class. More bullshit, better marks.

Yay for anti-intellectualism and shutting down conversation!

Stop being a dick. The guy has an opinion and voiced it, you don't have to agree with it but you also don't have to dismiss it so quickly either.

I'm all for serious analytical discussion of games that have a point to make, but c'mon, DmC is not that game. It's still just a stylish brawler, except this time the story is part They Live, and takes some shots at Fox News and Wall Street and whatever it feels like. They changed the combat somewhat, but I really don't think the gameplay is where they were trying to make some big point. It's a pretty huge stretch to imagine DmC's game designer going "Yeah, I'm really gonna stick it QTEs with this aspect of the game!"

I think it is fair to say that Patrick was reading a little too much into the game.

My perspective on the issue is that one can't "read too much into" anything. The intention of the developers is irrelevant-- we can interpret something as we please so long as there is an argument to back that interpretation up. I'd say that maybe Patrick didn't state that argument, but given the chance to I'm sure he could have elaborated.

I haven't played the game, so I can't say if I disagree or agree with his interpretation of that particular moment, but I personally can't stand people who say that someone is "reading too much" into something.There's no such thing as thinking too much about something! We should all strive to think more about everything, games included.

Posted by BisonHero

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@Scrumdidlyumptious said:

@FierceDeity said:

@ripelivejam said:

@DeathbyYeti said:

Also "it felt like a commentary on the quicktime event" I love when Patrick "reads" into things that dont have meaning

it's called interpretation. no need to belittle him for it.

To say it amounts to "commentary" is a bit hyperbolic though.

Patrick always talks about games like he's in a high school English class. More bullshit, better marks.

Yay for anti-intellectualism and shutting down conversation!

Stop being a dick. The guy has an opinion and voiced it, you don't have to agree with it but you also don't have to dismiss it so quickly either.

I'm all for serious analytical discussion of games that have a point to make, but c'mon, DmC is not that game. It's still just a stylish brawler, except this time the story is part They Live, and takes some shots at Fox News and Wall Street and whatever it feels like. They changed the combat somewhat, but I really don't think the gameplay is where they were trying to make some big point. It's a pretty huge stretch to imagine DmC's game designer going "Yeah, I'm really gonna stick it QTEs with this aspect of the game!"

I think it is fair to say that Patrick was reading a little too much into the game.

Posted by BisonHero

"Anachronistic". Hahahahahahaha, oh Ryan. Why do you continue to go out of your way to use words you don't understand?

Would it have been so hard to say "disingenuous" or "misleading"? I'm glad Vinny called him on it. Not quite as good as "disco quiche", though.

Posted by 2HeadedNinja

@GrantHeaslip said:

The bending over backward to be nice about The Cave is kind of questionable considering how close they are to Double Fine, or at least certain people there. I'm not claiming "COLLUSION!" — I think this is simple human nature — but it seems like they would have dismissed the game pretty quick had it not been a Double Fine release.

What the heck are you talking about? ... The Cave is a good game that has some flaws preventing it from being great, and that is exactly what they said.

Posted by GrantHeaslip

The bending over backward to be nice about The Cave is kind of questionable considering how close they are to Double Fine, or at least certain people there. I'm not claiming "COLLUSION!" — I think this is simple human nature — but it seems like they would have dismissed the game pretty quick had it not been a Double Fine release.

Posted by HyperionXR

@walterbennet: Trying to piece that together myself...

Posted by LiquidPrince

@Elktap said:

@LiquidPrince said:

Which is exactly what I have said. It's obviously going to look a bit sharper being rendered in 1080P, but that same article mentions the dithered shadows and lower sample rate of the motion blur:

"Elsewhere we also find a few other visual oddities. Bizarrely, motion blur quality appears to be less impressive than the 360's implementation (but an improvement over PS3) while a shadow off-set bias along with the tight casting radius of self-shadows on the characters leads to noticeable artifacts and break up of these elements during some of the cut-scenes."

Shadow dithering really kills the visuals for me. It was the main reason along with V-Sync issues that I bought it on 360 as opposed to my PS3 on launch. I was sad to see the PC version has those crappy shadows.

That was all covered in the concluding statement. It said despite the quirks the PC version still "commands" a visual advantage over the console versions. Also those quirks were "during some of the cut-scenes." I am pretty sure they were pre-rendered, I had tearing issues in the cut-scenes. It was actually quite jarring to go from the 60fps and higher fidelity of the actual game to whatever was going on in the cut-scenes but then they were made for console.

Even if the 360 version had some really small advantage somewhere there is no contest between having 30fps or 60fps especially when the lower frame rate actually creates a lower response time in the gameplay as the article states.

I've said this in every single one of my posts so far... I'm not talking about performance. It goes without saying that PC will perform better. And no the cutscenes that have the dithering shadows are not pre-rendered as the very same cutscenes on the 360 don't have the dithering issue. Overall I felt like the 360 looked the best of the 3 versions because of it's superior looking shadows which make the other two versions look very bad during the cutscenes.

Posted by walterbennet

I'm towards the end of DmC and I still don't quite know what the fuss Patrick and Brad were going on about "that moment." The whole game is filled with bonkers, off-the-wall stuff. What was the singular "moment," they were referring to?

Posted by LTSmash

@ripelivejam said:

@Bricks45 said:

holy fuck i need to see these movies now

If this isn't the final theatrical poster it should be.

Posted by rachelepithet

Time stamp of F&F; discussion?

Online
Posted by namesonkel

Han.

Felt a bit uncanny with the numerous Mass Effect references and mentions in this Bombcast with me playing ME1 side missions whilst listening to this.

Posted by videogamesarenotart

was it this weeks' podcast or last week's where brad uttered the phrase "too big to fail" ? cringe worthy

Posted by clumsyninja1

Tokyo Drift is the best movie so far. The Japanese speak pretty well English in the movie, though. Never happen to me when I went there.

Posted by Elktap

@LiquidPrince said:

Which is exactly what I have said. It's obviously going to look a bit sharper being rendered in 1080P, but that same article mentions the dithered shadows and lower sample rate of the motion blur:

"Elsewhere we also find a few other visual oddities. Bizarrely, motion blur quality appears to be less impressive than the 360's implementation (but an improvement over PS3) while a shadow off-set bias along with the tight casting radius of self-shadows on the characters leads to noticeable artifacts and break up of these elements during some of the cut-scenes."

Shadow dithering really kills the visuals for me. It was the main reason along with V-Sync issues that I bought it on 360 as opposed to my PS3 on launch. I was sad to see the PC version has those crappy shadows.

That was all covered in the concluding statement. It said despite the quirks the PC version still "commands" a visual advantage over the console versions. Also those quirks were "during some of the cut-scenes." I am pretty sure they were pre-rendered, I had tearing issues in the cut-scenes. It was actually quite jarring to go from the 60fps and higher fidelity of the actual game to whatever was going on in the cut-scenes but then they were made for console.

Even if the 360 version had some really small advantage somewhere there is no contest between having 30fps or 60fps especially when the lower frame rate actually creates a lower response time in the gameplay as the article states.

Posted by MasterVerhoffin

Dammit, now I really need to know what those 3 words in the Dead Space press release were. Anyone have a copy? :P

Posted by Grondoth

pppppppppppppaaaTRICK THERE WAS A LOCK ON SYSTEM IN OLDER DEVIL MAY CRIES.

Posted by Legion_

@bunnymud said:

Beyonce looked like a fucking spaz during the half-time show.

A hot spaz.

Posted by Humanity

@Snakepond said:

Call me crazy I still think Tokyo Drift was the best in the franchise.

You're not crazy, it's the only Fast and the Furious movie with actual driving in it.

Posted by LiquidPrince

@Elktap said:

@LiquidPrince said:

Being on PC doesn't automatically mean that every game is going to look way better... Especially since it's using the same textures and all that good stuff. Bumping up the resolution may help it look less aliased, and it may runs smoother. But when it comes down to pure visuals I prefer it on the 360 over the PC and PS3, and trust me, I rarely ever prefer things on my 360.

That digital foundry article says.

"But despite a few graphical quirks, the PC version of DmC still commands a visible advantage over the PS3 and 360 releases. Move beyond the 720p limitations of the consoles and we have a game that looks sharper, more detailed, and that runs far smoother on a variety of hardware configurations. In that respect, DmC on the PC brings back even more of that classic Devil May Cry feel but with all of the tasty visual upgrades that make this remake stand out from traditional 60FPS console titles."

Which is exactly what I have said. It's obviously going to look a bit sharper being rendered in 1080P, but that same article mentions the dithered shadows and lower sample rate of the motion blur:

"Elsewhere we also find a few other visual oddities. Bizarrely, motion blur quality appears to be less impressive than the 360's implementation (but an improvement over PS3) while a shadow off-set bias along with the tight casting radius of self-shadows on the characters leads to noticeable artifacts and break up of these elements during some of the cut-scenes."

Shadow dithering really kills the visuals for me. It was the main reason along with V-Sync issues that I bought it on 360 as opposed to my PS3 on launch. I was sad to see the PC version has those crappy shadows.

Posted by SPARTAN3

@Xtrminatr: HAHAHAHAH so true I never seen so many bad calls.

Posted by happymeowmeow

Fast and Furious discussion was great, had no idea that one of them takes place in the future MIND BLOWN. Brings to mind an episode of American Dad where they find a lost Fast and Furious script then come to realization that all F n' F movies are just hardcore gay porn with the porn bits removed.

Edited by DougQuaid

The revelation that 2 Fast 2 Furious takes place in the future, after all of the current and upcoming movies, was mind blowing. I'm glad I was sitting down when I heard it.

Edited by PulledaBrad

@ThePickle said:

One of these men is related to Brad (unless it was a coach).

Goddamn I hope its Fuzzy Thurston. But if I had to guess, Id say Bill Anderson.