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Edited by Sammo21
@Winsord: There are no commands that shout HEY DIPSHIT HEAL ME NOW AND STOP ENCHANTING WEAPONS FOR A FUCKING SECOND or HEY STOP TRYING TO ATTACK 3 DUDES AT ONCE.  The reason you button mash is because there aren't defined combos outside of special abilities and since the animations can be cancelled I find them typically useless as hell.  Saying "help" over and over and not getting healed is annoying.  Not getting fire buff after we've already killed 200+ goblins is annoying.  the commands are so broad and generic that you can't do anything of any real use.  Had they let me do something like a dragon age selection tool or more in depth commands then it wouldn't be great...but they don't. Even doing the alterations in "the chair" don't help all that much and that's later in the game so...yeah.
 
@TentPole: what do you mean the exploration is great? There's nothing worth exploring?  No interesting lore, no secret enemies, no little gems of the overall world, and no interesting structures or areas to explore; it might as well be a randomly generated "medieval times" map.
Posted by Skanker

So Patrick, does this mean you're going to play Monster Hunter next? Because you totally should.

Posted by Blind_Evil

This is the deepest combat and customization system I've ever seen in an open world RPG, that alone makes it 4-stars for me. I value mechanical aptitude over narrative, Patty is a bit more mixed. Alas.

Edited by TentPole

@Sammo21 said:

@Winsord: There are no commands that shout HEY DIPSHIT HEAL ME NOW AND STOP ENCHANTING WEAPONS FOR A FUCKING SECOND or HEY STOP TRYING TO ATTACK 3 DUDES AT ONCE. The reason you button mash is because there aren't defined combos outside of special abilities and since the animations can be cancelled I find them typically useless as hell. Saying "help" over and over and not getting healed is annoying. Not getting fire buff after we've already killed 200+ goblins is annoying. the commands are so broad and generic that you can't do anything of any real use. Had they let me do something like a dragon age selection tool or more in depth commands then it wouldn't be great...but they don't. Even doing the alterations in "the chair" don't help all that much and that's later in the game so...yeah.

@TentPole: what do you mean the exploration is great? There's nothing worth exploring? No interesting lore, no secret enemies, no little gems of the overall world, and no interesting structures or areas to explore; it might as well be a randomly generated "medieval times" map.
  • You can change your pawns AI so that they will prioritize healing you if you want.
  • Also even though the lore is shitty and there aren't little notes to read everywhere the dungeons and caves that you find are dripping with atmosphere and unique creatures to fight. They are there own reward and feel unique and singular unlike in other, larger games.

Posted by Marz

The game is fun from what i played(mostly the combat) but the story and motivation to go out in the world was kind of boring... i'll keep playing it though.

Posted by TentPole

@Marz: The story, motivations, and overall lore do not get any better anytime soon. Hopefully the ending is as crazy as Patrick claims.

Posted by goldenmnk

Did an invisible man review this game?

Posted by GioVANNI

@Skanker said:

So Patrick, does this mean you're going to play Monster Hunter next? Because you totally should.

I think what this really means is that Tricky should play/finish Dark Souls. Super meaty and satisfying combat, grim and daunting atmosphere, and not janky in the ways that a lot of Japanese games (including Dragons Dogma) are. Fuck, I need to replay that game

Posted by Jack_Lafayette

Speaking as someone who sometimes has to force himself to not buy badly-playing games for their context/story/world alone, I don't think good combat will be enough for me to get this.

Posted by patrickklepek

@Skanker said:

So Patrick, does this mean you're going to play Monster Hunter next? Because you totally should.

Probably not until the next 3DS one. But, yes.

Posted by Solh0und

Still buying it.

Posted by Karkarov

Thanks for the crappy score Patrick. Just as an aside all those boring one off NPC's actually show up a number of times if you just bother to stop and do something other than main story missions. With a 37 hour playtime though it is pretty obvious that you didn't do much beyond the bare minimum. Meanwhile that was a great storyline in Diablo wasn't it? I mean I had no idea at the massive plot that would unfold in that game. I am certainly glad to see it was held to the same story microscope Dragon's Dogma was. I also played a little Skyrim earlier today and asked to have a prisoner released that was in Aldmerri custody. What was really funny is like the week before the general had made this speech about how he was honored to fight with me and such right before promoting me to Legate, but when I asked for the prisoner release he talked to me like we had never met and said I was too low rank to request something like that? I guess the NPC's are way more dynamic in Skyrim right?

Posted by ahgunsillyo

@patrickklepek: Sir Klepek, I know you get this a lot, but you really need to get a sweet cartoon picture of yourself. For review purposes, of course. Look how lonely that star rating looks so lonely without one! Fortunately for all of us, that crazy buzz_clik fellow made you the only one you'll ever need (I know you already know this, but it really bears repeating).

GET ON IT, TRICKY. PLEASE.
Edited by Encephalon

Someone draw Patrick an avatar, please!

@patrickklepek: Patrick, this is the best review you've written on GB. I could feel your passion for the game's strengths, and your disappointment in its shortcomings. Seriously, good job.

Posted by BeachThunder

Alright, I'm off to check out the ending :o

Posted by Kierkegaard

@Karkarov: Ah, hilariously cliched internet contrarian, well met!

@patrickklepek: It's cool to see you write reviews. I liked how this one built to the story concerns by first logically focusing on the combat. Good structure. Usually seeing the paragraphs build makes me skip ahead, but you managed to have style even in your plot summary bits.

One suggestion: The double colon open with the 'bummer' and 'saving grace' was a little too on the nose. Still, this review helped me understand what this game is and why you feel the way you do about it. Good work.

Posted by sickVisionz

It seems like the game is marred by Japanese gaming's love of making mechanical things about the game a chore, like how most JRPGs don't let you save anywhere because dying the middle of a massive dungeon and having to start over again is part of the "thrill" or "skill" that the player should master.

Hopefully they can fix some of the issue like the lack of fast traveling in a patch.

Posted by TentPole

@sickVisionz: Thee is nothing fun about starting over but there is a lot of fun to be had in the thrill of knowing that death matters.

Edited by Sooty

@sickVisionz said:

It seems like the game is marred by Japanese gaming's love of making mechanical things about the game a chore, like how most JRPGs don't let you save anywhere because dying the middle of a massive dungeon and having to start over again is part of the "thrill" or "skill" that the player should master.

People are just more whiny now than they were a few years ago. I like not being able to save too often on some games, it made dungeon crawling on Persona 4 way more risky and you had to decide if the risk of dying was worth it for the additional time spent levelling up.

Posted by JackSukeru

I mostly just came here to watch Karkarov be angry, that guy seems mad invested in this game.

Interesting review though. I think as someone who's come to like games that you can play for a lot of hours where story doesn't get in the way I'm going to enjoy playing this, No idea which or if any of these issues brought up will actually end up bothering me though. I guess we'll see about that.

Posted by thebigJ_A

So what's the deal with that multi-part DLC quest that's on there? It's kind of gross to sell quests for an rpg that are on the disk separately, but the fact it's multi part makes me wonder if it might be meatier than the majority of quests in the game.

What this game needed was a proper dialogue system. That's the sort of thing that makes TES games shine, discussing the world around you with the people in it.

Posted by Andtheworld

To me, the combat alone made it 4 stars. I firmly believe that gameplay is most important aspect of a game, which is what ruined Skyrim (dear lord, the combat was fucking atrocious and the fact that you never fucking recognized for any of your achievements made it even worse).

Posted by jakonovski

Patrick's been comparing this way too much to Skyrim, kinda annoying since I'm not looking for an Elder Scrolls clone in Dragon's Dogma. Probably going to buy this today so I can make my own judgment.

Posted by Winternet

Show your face Tricky. C'mon, show us that pretty face of yours. SHOW US!

Posted by Nettacki
@Karkarov said:

Thanks for the crappy score Patrick. Just as an aside all those boring one off NPC's actually show up a number of times if you just bother to stop and do something other than main story missions. With a 37 hour playtime though it is pretty obvious that you didn't do much beyond the bare minimum. Meanwhile that was a great storyline in Diablo wasn't it? I mean I had no idea at the massive plot that would unfold in that game. I am certainly glad to see it was held to the same story microscope Dragon's Dogma was. I also played a little Skyrim earlier today and asked to have a prisoner released that was in Aldmerri custody. What was really funny is like the week before the general had made this speech about how he was honored to fight with me and such right before promoting me to Legate, but when I asked for the prisoner release he talked to me like we had never met and said I was too low rank to request something like that? I guess the NPC's are way more dynamic in Skyrim right?

Er, what's your point? Diablo was reviewed by Brad, not Patrick.
Posted by ItBeStefYo

@Karkarov said:

Thanks for the crappy score Patrick. Just as an aside all those boring one off NPC's actually show up a number of times if you just bother to stop and do something other than main story missions. With a 37 hour playtime though it is pretty obvious that you didn't do much beyond the bare minimum. Meanwhile that was a great storyline in Diablo wasn't it? I mean I had no idea at the massive plot that would unfold in that game. I am certainly glad to see it was held to the same story microscope Dragon's Dogma was. I also played a little Skyrim earlier today and asked to have a prisoner released that was in Aldmerri custody. What was really funny is like the week before the general had made this speech about how he was honored to fight with me and such right before promoting me to Legate, but when I asked for the prisoner release he talked to me like we had never met and said I was too low rank to request something like that? I guess the NPC's are way more dynamic in Skyrim right?

You make a fair point, and for the record I always tone down Brad's Review scores by 1 star! (Brad reviewed Diablo 3 and Skyrim)

Posted by matti00

@Karkarov said:

Thanks for the crappy score Patrick. Just as an aside all those boring one off NPC's actually show up a number of times if you just bother to stop and do something other than main story missions. With a 37 hour playtime though it is pretty obvious that you didn't do much beyond the bare minimum. Meanwhile that was a great storyline in Diablo wasn't it? I mean I had no idea at the massive plot that would unfold in that game. I am certainly glad to see it was held to the same story microscope Dragon's Dogma was. I also played a little Skyrim earlier today and asked to have a prisoner released that was in Aldmerri custody. What was really funny is like the week before the general had made this speech about how he was honored to fight with me and such right before promoting me to Legate, but when I asked for the prisoner release he talked to me like we had never met and said I was too low rank to request something like that? I guess the NPC's are way more dynamic in Skyrim right?

Why don't you like what I like?! You just don't get it! Waaaahhh

Posted by XenoNick

Think I will wait for a price drop. Had some fun with the demo but not enough to drop £40 for it.

Posted by MachoFantastico

Still have the urge to get this game, the combat fascinated me. Which goes to show it's strengths consider a lot of the game seems pretty awful to me. 

Posted by biggiedubs

@matti00 said:

@Karkarov said:

Thanks for the crappy score Patrick. Just as an aside all those boring one off NPC's actually show up a number of times if you just bother to stop and do something other than main story missions. With a 37 hour playtime though it is pretty obvious that you didn't do much beyond the bare minimum. Meanwhile that was a great storyline in Diablo wasn't it? I mean I had no idea at the massive plot that would unfold in that game. I am certainly glad to see it was held to the same story microscope Dragon's Dogma was. I also played a little Skyrim earlier today and asked to have a prisoner released that was in Aldmerri custody. What was really funny is like the week before the general had made this speech about how he was honored to fight with me and such right before promoting me to Legate, but when I asked for the prisoner release he talked to me like we had never met and said I was too low rank to request something like that? I guess the NPC's are way more dynamic in Skyrim right?

Why don't you like what I like?! You just don't get it! Waaaahhh

I think you're confusing 'whining' and 'having a decent point but making it in an aggressive way'.

Just boil it down to 'Diablo and Dragon's Dogma both had crappy stories but Diablo didn't get punished for it' and 'the NPC's in Dragon Dogma are similar to Skyrim but you've said there were worse'.

How long is the storyline, by the way? You say he didn't play enough, but I still feel that just playing through the storyline is enough for someone to have a valid opinion of the game. Are the sub-quests easy to come across and fairly engaging?

Posted by Tennmuerti

Great review Patrick.

People need to remember that 3 stars is a good score on GB especially if you are into that type of game in the first place.

Will be picking this up as soon as I stall out in D3 Inferno.

Posted by kagato

Ive got the game coming today and im glad to see this review if nothing else to set my expectations appropriatly. I fell in love with the demo and had the whole thing hyped up in my head, now reading some of the downsides i wont feel myself totally disapoined and can enjoy the aspects of the game that work well. I really hope this sells well and prompts Capcom to make a second game for next gen consoles with co-op play. I love the idea of the pawn system but id also like to be able to team up with friends to take on some of the games more difficult to defeat monsters.

Posted by thehuntsmen5434

Not bad for Capcoms first try at a western style game. Next time they will get it right.

Posted by probablytuna

Looks interesting, but not interesting enough for me to purchase it at full price I guess.

Posted by Winsord

@Sammo21: Whenever I've needed to be healed I just hit the "help" command and typically, at least in my experience, the AI was pretty good at figuring out that if I had gray in my health meter to heal me. Using the help command when attacking a certain enemy or limb of a bigger monster will also get your teammates to attack specifically that, so you can direct them somewhat better than you're making it out to be. You can also adapt the pawn AI in the knowledge chair before hand, so typically you'd want to have maybe your main pawn be heavy on healing and then one of the sub-pawns heavy on damage spells or buffs. The system's not perfect by any means, but if you learn how to, it can be used pretty effectively; the triggers are really context specific, but they're not hard to pull off.

Posted by dropabombonit

Seems a fair review from what I played of the demo and watched of the quick look. The combat does seem super fun but everything surrounding it seems kind of janky

Posted by bearshamanbro

Patrick, I'm going to say that I think you hit upon some good points. I have been watching a lot of this game and it does seem like the combat is pretty interesting but like you said the world seems pretty boring. During the quick look I didn't think the Skyrim comments were relevant, but I think I get what you were trying to get at. What's the point of this big world if you don't do anything interesting with it. For Skyrim, that is having the towns and NPCs that give the illusion of a living/interactive world. Another approach, like the Souls series, would be to make every area have an extremely different personality and going to each new area is a different experience. Basically the best games in genre do multiple things well like Skyrim (world, NPCs, interactivity) Souls (combat, level design, bosses).

Posted by zombie2011

After watching the QL i'm definitely passing on this. The world just looked so boring to be in, which is made worse by not fast travel.

Posted by StriderNo9

Great review!

Posted by cwdawg1224

@thehuntsmen5434 said:

Next time they will get it right.

I thought the same thing about Dead Rising 2. I was wrong.

Posted by Agent47

@zombie2011:You can't fast travel, but you can teleport using ferry stones similar to Dark Soul's system.

Posted by Agent47

@ItBeStefYo said:

@Karkarov said:

Thanks for the crappy score Patrick. Just as an aside all those boring one off NPC's actually show up a number of times if you just bother to stop and do something other than main story missions. With a 37 hour playtime though it is pretty obvious that you didn't do much beyond the bare minimum. Meanwhile that was a great storyline in Diablo wasn't it? I mean I had no idea at the massive plot that would unfold in that game. I am certainly glad to see it was held to the same story microscope Dragon's Dogma was. I also played a little Skyrim earlier today and asked to have a prisoner released that was in Aldmerri custody. What was really funny is like the week before the general had made this speech about how he was honored to fight with me and such right before promoting me to Legate, but when I asked for the prisoner release he talked to me like we had never met and said I was too low rank to request something like that? I guess the NPC's are way more dynamic in Skyrim right?

You make a fair point, and for the record I always tone down Brad's Review scores by 1 star! (Brad reviewed Diablo 3 and Skyrim)

Yeah Diablo III was defintely not a 5, it's great fun but again it's pretty much the same, a 4 is more realistic seeing as how it's fun enough but it hasn't really changed much.But of course they got someone who loved the series(Brad) so a 5 is expected.Similar to if Dragon's Dogma was a series and they had someone who liked the series to review it, it would be higher than normal.

Posted by Brad

@biggiedubs said:

@matti00 said:

@Karkarov said:

Thanks for the crappy score Patrick. Just as an aside all those boring one off NPC's actually show up a number of times if you just bother to stop and do something other than main story missions. With a 37 hour playtime though it is pretty obvious that you didn't do much beyond the bare minimum. Meanwhile that was a great storyline in Diablo wasn't it? I mean I had no idea at the massive plot that would unfold in that game. I am certainly glad to see it was held to the same story microscope Dragon's Dogma was. I also played a little Skyrim earlier today and asked to have a prisoner released that was in Aldmerri custody. What was really funny is like the week before the general had made this speech about how he was honored to fight with me and such right before promoting me to Legate, but when I asked for the prisoner release he talked to me like we had never met and said I was too low rank to request something like that? I guess the NPC's are way more dynamic in Skyrim right?

Why don't you like what I like?! You just don't get it! Waaaahhh

I think you're confusing 'whining' and 'having a decent point but making it in an aggressive way'.

People who express themselves like children should expect to be treated as such, no?

Just boil it down to 'Diablo and Dragon's Dogma both had crappy stories but Diablo didn't get punished for it' and 'the NPC's in Dragon Dogma are similar to Skyrim but you've said there were worse'.

How long is the storyline, by the way? You say he didn't play enough, but I still feel that just playing through the storyline is enough for someone to have a valid opinion of the game. Are the sub-quests easy to come across and fairly engaging?

Diablo's story isn't terrible, but it's a poor comparison to begin with. I was never, ever bored in 40 hours of playing Diablo while it sounds like DD left Patrick wishing there were more for him to do in between the major enemy encounters.

Staff
Posted by TentPole

@Brad said:

@biggiedubs said:

@matti00 said:

@Karkarov said:

Thanks for the crappy score Patrick. Just as an aside all those boring one off NPC's actually show up a number of times if you just bother to stop and do something other than main story missions. With a 37 hour playtime though it is pretty obvious that you didn't do much beyond the bare minimum. Meanwhile that was a great storyline in Diablo wasn't it? I mean I had no idea at the massive plot that would unfold in that game. I am certainly glad to see it was held to the same story microscope Dragon's Dogma was. I also played a little Skyrim earlier today and asked to have a prisoner released that was in Aldmerri custody. What was really funny is like the week before the general had made this speech about how he was honored to fight with me and such right before promoting me to Legate, but when I asked for the prisoner release he talked to me like we had never met and said I was too low rank to request something like that? I guess the NPC's are way more dynamic in Skyrim right?

Why don't you like what I like?! You just don't get it! Waaaahhh

I think you're confusing 'whining' and 'having a decent point but making it in an aggressive way'.

People who express themselves like children should expect to be treated as such, no?

I see two people acting like children and you calling out the one guy who isn't.

Posted by Brad

@TentPole said:

@Brad said:

@biggiedubs said:

@matti00 said:

@Karkarov said:

Thanks for the crappy score Patrick. Just as an aside all those boring one off NPC's actually show up a number of times if you just bother to stop and do something other than main story missions. With a 37 hour playtime though it is pretty obvious that you didn't do much beyond the bare minimum. Meanwhile that was a great storyline in Diablo wasn't it? I mean I had no idea at the massive plot that would unfold in that game. I am certainly glad to see it was held to the same story microscope Dragon's Dogma was. I also played a little Skyrim earlier today and asked to have a prisoner released that was in Aldmerri custody. What was really funny is like the week before the general had made this speech about how he was honored to fight with me and such right before promoting me to Legate, but when I asked for the prisoner release he talked to me like we had never met and said I was too low rank to request something like that? I guess the NPC's are way more dynamic in Skyrim right?

Why don't you like what I like?! You just don't get it! Waaaahhh

I think you're confusing 'whining' and 'having a decent point but making it in an aggressive way'.

People who express themselves like children should expect to be treated as such, no?

I see two people acting like children and you calling out the one guy who isn't.

Who did you think I was calling out...?

Staff
Posted by Xeirus

@Brad said:

@TentPole said:

@Brad said:

@biggiedubs said:

@matti00 said:

@Karkarov said:

Thanks for the crappy score Patrick. Just as an aside all those boring one off NPC's actually show up a number of times if you just bother to stop and do something other than main story missions. With a 37 hour playtime though it is pretty obvious that you didn't do much beyond the bare minimum. Meanwhile that was a great storyline in Diablo wasn't it? I mean I had no idea at the massive plot that would unfold in that game. I am certainly glad to see it was held to the same story microscope Dragon's Dogma was. I also played a little Skyrim earlier today and asked to have a prisoner released that was in Aldmerri custody. What was really funny is like the week before the general had made this speech about how he was honored to fight with me and such right before promoting me to Legate, but when I asked for the prisoner release he talked to me like we had never met and said I was too low rank to request something like that? I guess the NPC's are way more dynamic in Skyrim right?

Why don't you like what I like?! You just don't get it! Waaaahhh

I think you're confusing 'whining' and 'having a decent point but making it in an aggressive way'.

People who express themselves like children should expect to be treated as such, no?

I see two people acting like children and you calling out the one guy who isn't.

Who did you think I was calling out...?

I'm pretty sure Jeff has said 10000000 times, games are not to be compared to each other. That's not how this website does their reviews.

If you think 37 hours is the "bare minimum" you seriously are clueless. Patrick's feelings have been stated by tons of people on the net, do some research and grow up man, seriously... it's an OPINION, calm down

Edited by Mento

Klepek didn't review Diablo III or Skyrim. They were both Brad joints. I'm not sure where all this "you liked x but not y?" belligerence is coming from.

Thanks for the review, Patrick. I still fully intend to play this game, but it's worth hearing your reservations about it as someone who isn't usually into this sort of thing. I'd be happy to provide a second opinion for these "you hate Japanese games rabble rabble" dissenters once I'm done, as someone who is way more into this kind of business.

Talking of which, how are you guys getting on with Jeff's notion of "second opinion" smaller sub-reviews from other staff members? I'm guessing it's in a big folder labelled "Deal with after E3".

Moderator
Posted by RedRavN

Great review Patrick. I think that for me I would be able to overlook some of the clunky design and lack of world and story content for the sake of the combat and exploration. I'm one of those people that got burnt out on skyrim because the combat just became repetative and shallow the more I played. A game needs good exiting gameplay to make a world I want to explore, otherwise I'm just not into it.

I can imagine a game that has narrative, writing and characters as good as the witcher 2 but also with the visceral combat in dragon's dogma. I hope someone makes it eventually.

Posted by Karkarov

@Brad said:


Who did you think I was calling out...?

Pretty sure he was saying you were calling out who is being the adult in this case.

I have no problem with people calling me out for being a asshole, because I can definitely be one. But the thing is Brad in your reviews of Diablo and even Skyrim you admit the story and most npcs were weak and had issues. However you also acknowledged that maybe the story/npc interactions aren't the "point" of the game and don't significantly detract from what makes those games good.

Patrick on the other hand took a game he clearly had fun playing and enjoyed, by his own admission in the quick look he felt compelled to beat it and "wanted to like the game". Then proceeds to explain how 3-4 fairly minor gripes make the game a 3. Vinny even said during the quick look it sounded like Patrick was making maybe too big a fuss about his gripes. As I am sure you know many open world RPG fans will even argue one of his detraction's (no fast travel) is actually a good thing.

Honestly the only reason I even made my initial post in the end was because Patrick himself compared it to Skyrim. I can't help but feel it was a one sided and unfair comparison because he only looked at what Skyrim did right. If you are going to compare two games in a review it has to be a real comparison, not a cherry picking where you overlook the fact that the "good" game made some of the mistakes the "bad" one made.

Dragon's Dogma is not a 5/5. I would scratch my chin at anyone who gave it more than a 4/5, but is certainly better than a 3. At least in my opinion which of course doesn't really count for anything.

Posted by Godak

@Xeirus said:

I'm pretty sure Jeff has said 10000000 times, games are not to be compared to each other. That's not how this website does their reviews.

If you think 37 hours is the "bare minimum" you seriously are clueless. Patrick's feelings have been stated by tons of people on the net, do some research and grow up man, seriously... it's an OPINION, calm down

Just out of curiosity, what else does one compare games to? Movies? Books? The arbitrary and completely subjective concept of fun? Sure, in an ideal world all things would exist in a vacuum where they don't have to be judged against by the standards of their competitors and, instead, only on their own merits. But that is not realistic for a review - something that should, in theory, help consumers find and purchase products that are the best monetary value for them. In order to do that, games should be (perhaps MUST be) compared to other games in the genre. Relating information in terms of popular games in the genre will give readers a better mental image of what they can expect from the game, thus fufilling the purpose of a review. It's, like, science!

Also, just as a footnote, average review scores would seem to put Dragon's Dogma at more of a four star level, making Patrick something of an anomaly.

YOU ARE AN ANOMALY, PATRICK (please don't have your fuzz-iferous follices devour me).

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