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Posted by datarez

Wow, Yoshida is really honest. I'm enjoying this new Sony.

Edited by BasketSnake

How much ram can a ram ram into if a ram rams some ram?

I've been thinking about for a few minutes and I think I know the answer: 4k.

Posted by BoFooQ

@platina32: I was fine with the small HD is ps3 cause when I bought my 60GB second time I filled it up I pulled it out and replaced it with 500GB. It only cost me $70 for the harddrive but the differance in cost if I had bought larger HD from sony to start with have been over $100 probably.

Edited by Kosayn

Glad to have this info.

I think they will come up with some sort of plan for backwards compatibility, for 'greatest hits.' They'll definitely want their high selling digital titles to carry over no matter what. It hasn't been great for back compat on the PS3 - very few good PS2 games are available digitally, and the people with launch PS3s have tiny hard drives. I suppose the only folks who have a nice large Sony library on one console are people who reinstalled hard drives to launch PS3s and carefully babied the system to make it last, or pirates.

The big problem on PS4 is whether back compat games could be bug-free in light of the new proposed features. Suspend/Resume, recording gameplay, incremental downloads to start playing faster, and sharing - I think the new PS4 games might have to be custom designed with supporting those features in mind, and the old emulated games would have to be reworked, either that or say 'no new features for emulated games.' That's no good - they want active, connected users if their grandiose network concepts are to succeed. It'd be especially tough for PS3 games, which almost all have online components, installed portions, updates, and so on of their own to manage, on a new system with a different architecture.

Basically it sounds like it would be a lot of work, an unreasonable amount. They need to prioritize the new content, as much as I and others want to retire our old consoles.

Posted by mrpandaman

@lively said:

I think he's saying all the right things at this point. From what's been announced, the PS4 will be a huge leap forward in hardware. 512MB of memory was way too small for the PS3. 8GB of unified GDDR5 is practically an embarrassment of riches by comparison.

Microsoft has their work cut out for them if they want to keep up.

I'm sure he's telling the truth that the console will play used disc-based games, but I'm hopeful that they get their act together and start deeply discounting the digital editions. That would under-cut Gamestop, if they're really so worried about losing profits to the second-hand market. PC Gamers / Steam users have been living in the future, it's time console peasants joined us.

I think what they will do with digital games eventually add it to PSN+ free subscriber game thing, but at the same time discount it maybe 10%-20% off for digital downloads. Or maybe they will do the Steam thing with sales and all.

That does remind me, I really do wonder what happened to that thing Valve and Sony had going when Sony allowed Steam on the PS3. I wonder if Valve and Sony decide to pursue it further since Gabe Newell has less than nice things to say about Microsoft, Windows 8, and their push to integrate it into altogether in one environment.

Posted by YukoAsho
Edited by YukoAsho

"all disc games on PS4 will work with any PS4."

He was a bit more coy when addressing whether any such restrictions could be employed by other publishers, as with specific registration codes or other technologies designed to hinder the used market. All he would say was, "It's a publisher decision," and that "there are all sorts of capabilities."

Seemed pretty clear-cut to me. The discs will work, and EA will keep putting their stupid online passes in them.

Really, what I'm curious about is whether Sony will continue with Online Passes. Ubi's been a bit back and forth, Warner seems to have abandoned them after the Arkham City fiasco (notice no online pass for Arkham City GOTY, MK Komplete, or Lego Batman 2 Vita), Activision only tried it once with Prototype 2 and presumably didn't see whatever increase in new sales for the title as being worth the effort, and THQ no longer exists, leaving EA as the only third-party that uses the scheme on a regular basis.

Posted by Bollard

@chavtheworld said:

@gaspower said:

@chavtheworld said:

@hassun said:

@leebmx: When in doubt about technical stuff, go to Richard Leadbetter at Digital Foundry (hosted on Eurogamer)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-playstation-4

....theoretically the URAM should be as fast as normal DRAM. But this is the first time I've ever heard of it being used in a commercial device.

And GDDR5 to boot, it has to be so damn expensive right?

John Carmack also had something interesting to say on Twitter regarding the Sony hardware.

It's a shame he can't talk freely, he'd provide a better insight than anyone on the matter. Plus I'm still curious about this whole URAM thing. I want to know if what Sony is calling "unified RAM" really is the same as this URAM, which would be awesome.

"theoretically the URAM should be as fast as normal DRAM. But this is the first time I've ever heard of it being used in a commercial device."

would it be the same style of functionality present in the PSP , where you get to turn it off mid-pause , then when-EVER you turn it back on , instantly on the game ? because that would be cool and it is a commercial device that has that feature , if that is the type of thing everyone is talking about .

Yeah that's pretty much what it should be able to do, if they are using actual URAM. The first thing I wanna do if I get my hands on a PS4 is put it on standby and unplug it, then plug it back in and see if it still resumes. Cause that would be awesome.

Edited by FesteringNeon

@quarters said:

Sounds like their heads are in the right place. Awesome.

agreed.

Posted by mcnorhymes

@gaspower said:

@chavtheworld said:

@hassun said:

@leebmx: When in doubt about technical stuff, go to Richard Leadbetter at Digital Foundry (hosted on Eurogamer)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-playstation-4

....theoretically the URAM should be as fast as normal DRAM. But this is the first time I've ever heard of it being used in a commercial device.

And GDDR5 to boot, it has to be so damn expensive right?

John Carmack also had something interesting to say on Twitter regarding the Sony hardware.

It's a shame he can't talk freely, he'd provide a better insight than anyone on the matter. Plus I'm still curious about this whole URAM thing. I want to know if what Sony is calling "unified RAM" really is the same as this URAM, which would be awesome.

"theoretically the URAM should be as fast as normal DRAM. But this is the first time I've ever heard of it being used in a commercial device."

would it be the same style of functionality present in the PSP , where you get to turn it off mid-pause , then when-EVER you turn it back on , instantly on the game ? because that would be cool and it is a commercial device that has that feature , if that is the type of thing everyone is talking about .

Posted by leebmx
Edited by dezvous

@spartyon: I wouldn't be so worried, these things are always sold at a loss.

Posted by dropabombonit

Yoshida is a great dude, he was very candid on the couple of Podcast Beyond's that he has appeared on. He also properly cares about what those guys think because he will bring up things that they have said on the podcast before. I just can't imagine a op level MS employee listening to a podcast in this way

Edited by StriderNo9

Great write up Alex. I really appreciate how candidly he speaks. Obviously he is just as much a suit as the next guy but he comes off sort of humble and human. Which I prefer to the canned ones we tend to get sometimes.

Edited by Platina32

"We're not ready to talk about the exchangability of the hard drives, but it's our dream that people are filling up their hard drives on PS4. Because on PS3, not many people did."

That seems to hint to a big HDD, which is good. PS3 HDD was too small in the beginning (40GB, I still have it and I can only install 5 games or so). I hope for 1TB or more. Under that:

Posted by probablytuna

Please let the PS4 be region free.

Posted by Bollard

@gaspower said:

@chavtheworld said:

@hassun said:

@leebmx: When in doubt about technical stuff, go to Richard Leadbetter at Digital Foundry (hosted on Eurogamer). It still amazes me he is one of the only people out there doing this kind of thing.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-playstation-4

Just reading that article it occurred to me they glossed over the whole "unified" part of the RAM. URAM is really interesting from the research journals I've just been reading, it's like DRAM combined with flash memory. Which basically means you can choose whether you want it to be volatile, and have super fast read/write like DRAM, or non-volatile and store for up to years with no power on.

That's how Sony is gunna be doing the whole put your machine into sleep mode, with no power thing. And that's pretty cool. I have no idea what the performance implications are gunnna be on it, I mean, theoretically the URAM should be as fast as normal DRAM. But this is the first time I've ever heard of it being used in a commercial device.

And GDDR5 to boot, it has to be so damn expensive right?

John Carmack also had something interesting to say on Twitter regarding the Sony hardware.

It's a shame he can't talk freely, he'd provide a better insight than anyone on the matter. Plus I'm still curious about this whole URAM thing. I want to know if what Sony is calling "unified RAM" really is the same as this URAM, which would be awesome.

Posted by DedBeet

@rupee said:

do people really care what the box looks like

it's a box that you don't look at it except when you turn the console on

if it was shaped like a giant penis and covered the entire wall i can see why it'd be a problem but it doesn't, so why do people care about the box

Apparently they do. Much of the negative press I've seen was about them not showing the PS4 hardware. So stupid. No one expected them to show this early at all and, when they do, they complain they didn't show everything.

Posted by MattClassic

I'm still blown away by the 8GB of RAM, and GDDR5 at that. That's an insane leap over the PS3/360.

Posted by Rupee

do people really care what the box looks like

it's a box that you don't look at it except when you turn the console on

if it was shaped like a giant penis and covered the entire wall i can see why it'd be a problem but it doesn't, so why do people care about the box

Posted by IndoAssassin

If you guys are looking for a little insight into the ps4 specs. Pcper.com has a podcast discussing it. They go into some good detail about the architecture.

http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Podcast-239-NVIDIA-GTX-TITAN-PlayStation-4-Hardware-SSD-Endurance-and-more

Edited by SasquatchRuby

@ntm: Replied dude!

Posted by NTM

@insidioustuna:@thebiolover: What?

@jams: Hm. Interesting. Yeah, it still says two messages, but I did at least get the new ones that have been posted towards this one, though it was somewhat garbled 'cause I couldn't quite tell who was saying what. Thanks. I hope it's fixed sometime soon.

Edited by Devil240Z

What loser hasn't filled up a ps3 hard drive? I have a 320 gig and its full as fuck. ive been upgrading them since day one. its too dam easy to fill those tiny ass drives with big ass games.

Online
Posted by GaspoweR

Btw 4k isn't Sony proprietary tech like Blu-Ray

Posted by KamasamaK

@alex said:

Yoshida was asked about whether or not the PS4 would support Sony's proprietary high-resolution, titled 4K.

I do not think this word means what you think it means.

Posted by happypup70

I cannot imagine the whole region locking structure suddenly being abandoned.

Persona 4: Arena was the most recent game to bring this issue to the fore, and one reason behind region-lock seems to be to allow sales projections by region to have at least a chance of being accurate. For instance if ATLUS wants to sell Euro distribution rights to someone, and there is no region-lock, how are they meant to negotiate a price for this? The other issue is that the publishers maximise their total sales by regionally pricing.

As an Aussie, I would love to have been playing P4A for months and Fire Emblem for almost a month at this point. Instead I have to wait for line upon line of text to be translated to 6 languages for the PAL release.

Sure, I would prefer region-lock gone, but I do not see this changing.

The one that really gets me on edge is region-locked game lobbies, way to kill the multiplayer community for your game...

That's some great insight. I cannot see region locking going away completely until we are a one world nation. Maybe this will happen, probably it won't. The world market is still and will be for the foreseeable future be a collection of smaller markets. each market with it's own demands and costs. The video game industry is an international industry but has to do business in these regional markets. Region locking seems to be the best option right now. Maybe with time and the propagation of digital releases other options will be considered.

Edited by KamasamaK

@alex said:

I asked Yoshida about the possibility of region locking going away in the next generation. However, he did not respond, saying only that he knows the answer to the question...

Earlier in the article...

Yoshida said:

all disc games on PS4 will work with any PS4.
Edited by IzunaDrop

I cannot imagine the whole region locking structure suddenly being abandoned.

Persona 4: Arena was the most recent game to bring this issue to the fore, and one reason behind region-lock seems to be to allow sales projections by region to have at least a chance of being accurate. For instance if ATLUS wants to sell Euro distribution rights to someone, and there is no region-lock, how are they meant to negotiate a price for this? The other issue is that the publishers maximise their total sales by regionally pricing.

As an Aussie, I would love to have been playing P4A for months and Fire Emblem for almost a month at this point. Instead I have to wait for line upon line of text to be translated to 6 languages for the PAL release.

Sure, I would prefer region-lock gone, but I do not see this changing.

The one that really gets me on edge is region-locked game lobbies, way to kill the multiplayer community for your game...

Posted by Hamabama

Good read. Thanks- I know the text doesn't get the same love as video.

Posted by bug9329

I'm pretty confident that both PS4 and the next Xbox will allow publishers to easily gate used disks. Currently, with EA's "Project $10," you receive a code to access multiplayer content and you buy that code for used games. PS4 and Xbox-next will not need you to type in a code for a new game since they will know the disk is new (And the code will probably be on some tag embedded in the disk).

This will make it easier for the users and while I am sure that some smaller publishers will use this feature to completely block used game sales, I suspect that EA and Activision will use this new seamless capability to blackmail Game Stop and other used game sellers into sharing the profits or at least not undercutting week 1 sales with used games. I like used games being available but I understand why EA would be angry with Game Stop convincing customers to buy a used game over a new game the first week of release.

Edited by GaspoweR

@chavtheworld said:

@hassun said:

@leebmx: When in doubt about technical stuff, go to Richard Leadbetter at Digital Foundry (hosted on Eurogamer). It still amazes me he is one of the only people out there doing this kind of thing.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-playstation-4

Just reading that article it occurred to me they glossed over the whole "unified" part of the RAM. URAM is really interesting from the research journals I've just been reading, it's like DRAM combined with flash memory. Which basically means you can choose whether you want it to be volatile, and have super fast read/write like DRAM, or non-volatile and store for up to years with no power on.

That's how Sony is gunna be doing the whole put your machine into sleep mode, with no power thing. And that's pretty cool. I have no idea what the performance implications are gunnna be on it, I mean, theoretically the URAM should be as fast as normal DRAM. But this is the first time I've ever heard of it being used in a commercial device.

And GDDR5 to boot, it has to be so damn expensive right?

John Carmack also had something interesting to say on Twitter regarding the Sony hardware.

Posted by posh

@awesomeusername: you say that like it's simple. at this point, I do need to upgrade my PS3 and having a whole other machine doesn't work well for me since I travel a lot. I did say that the lack of backwards compatibility was at least expected, since they fucked up with that cell processor, but my main problem is with the PSN purchases not carrying over.

Posted by awesomeusername

@posh: @rudecubes: Forgot where I read it but people are saying that putting backward compatibility will make the console a ton more expensive and then you'd guys will just bitch about that. So keep your (buy a) PS3 and buy a PS4. Done.

Posted by MetalGearSunny

As a European who's a fan of Persona, that region locking answer makes me effing scared.

I would imagine. Atlus seems really bad with dealing with that part of the world.

Edited by whatisdelicious

@draxyle said:

I totally get why the PS4 won't be able to play PS3 games; that was a mistake they made back half a decade ago with the Cell, but I'm disappointed that they aren't even considering PS2 or even PS1 backwards compatibility. I can't imagine it would be that difficult to detect the discs and emulate them, especially with the power of the console itself now. Gaikai is merely a bandaid over that gaping wound that we've been complaining about for years with the PS3. If they can't even get my PSN purchases of PS1 and PS2 games working, that will just be embarrassing for us and for them.

This is going to be a rough transitional period into more "normal" computing architecture that will help in the long run, but they need better solutions and answers to the problems it creates right now.

The region locking is another worrying issue. Until developers can manage to get games a global release on day one, we shouldn't be punishing our European or Australian friends just to screw over specific markets with their currencies.

It's pretty difficult from the sound of things actually. Just because a system is exponentially more powerful doesn't mean it can natively run the software. The software is designed around the hardware and if the hardware isn't the same, it doesn't work correctly.

At this point though, I'm not really that concerned about backwards compatability. I remember being vehement about getting a PS3 that would have PS2 backwards compatability, but once it was there, I almost never wanted to play PS2 games. Sure, from time to time I'd pop one in, but by and large, not really. It's kind of a bummer that all my PSN games won't transfer over just because I really liked having a huge library of games on-hand without swapping discs ever, but I think I'm just going to hang on to my PS3 and not worry about it. The problem with keeping old systems around before this generation was that they all hooked up to your TV with different cables. Now it'll only be a matter of swapping my HDMI cable between the two systems, which we used to have to do in my apartment in college because my roommate had a 360 and I had a PS3 and we only had one HDMI port for a while. Not that big of a deal.

Posted by Bollard

@hassun said:

@leebmx: When in doubt about technical stuff, go to Richard Leadbetter at Digital Foundry (hosted on Eurogamer). It still amazes me he is one of the only people out there doing this kind of thing.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-playstation-4

Just reading that article it occurred to me they glossed over the whole "unified" part of the RAM. URAM is really interesting from the research journals I've just been reading, it's like DRAM combined with flash memory. Which basically means you can choose whether you want it to be volatile, and have super fast read/write like DRAM, or non-volatile and store for up to years with no power on.

That's how Sony is gunna be doing the whole put your machine into sleep mode, with no power thing. And that's pretty cool. I have no idea what the performance implications are gunnna be on it, I mean, theoretically the URAM should be as fast as normal DRAM. But this is the first time I've ever heard of it being used in a commercial device.

And GDDR5 to boot, it has to be so damn expensive right?

Edited by Hassun

@leebmx: When in doubt about technical stuff, go to Richard Leadbetter at Digital Foundry (hosted on Eurogamer). It still amazes me he is one of the only people out there doing this kind of thing.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-playstation-4

Posted by CarlosTheDwarf

Want to second the vote for Yoshida to do Sony events and pressers. He comes off much more real that anyone else at Sony or anybody at Microsoft.

Posted by Landmine

I'm pretty excited, almost makes me want to buy a vita.

Edited by Draxyle

I totally get why the PS4 won't be able to play PS3 games; that was a mistake they made back half a decade ago with the Cell, but I'm disappointed that they aren't even considering PS2 or even PS1 backwards compatibility. I can't imagine it would be that difficult to detect the discs and emulate them, especially with the power of the console itself now. Gaikai is merely a bandaid over that gaping wound that we've been complaining about for years with the PS3. If they can't even get my PSN purchases of PS1 and PS2 games working, that will just be embarrassing for us and for them.

This is going to be a rough transitional period into more "normal" computing architecture that will help in the long run, but they need better solutions and answers to the problems it creates right now.

The region locking is another worrying issue. Until developers can manage to get games a global release on day one, we shouldn't be punishing our European or Australian friends just to screw over specific markets with their currencies.

Posted by G24S

Great article Alex!

Posted by camp7203

Everything everywhere, except if you paid for it already. That seems to be their company line on backwards compatibility.

Posted by Lurkero

Enjoyed the article, but I would suggest that for articles like this there is more contrast in the formatting. I am having trouble distinguishing the text.

Posted by Questionable

@nickux said:

Nice write-up. Yoshida always seems like a good dude though that region-locking answer worries me.

I bet that it is the same as with the PS3,

Where the options is technically there but only two or three games made use of it this entire generation.
- One of those was because it was packed with a complete blu-ray movie on disc hence there being a whole array of extra laws to be taken into consideration for the publisher.

I bet that admitting that the PS4 is technically capable of region locking games will just cause a ton of negative PR for something that in practice we will only see in another 2-3 games ever.

Edited by PixelSoldier

You should listen to the Tested podcast, "This Is Only a Test," Will and Norm do a good job explaining these things and I imagine this'll be a big point of discussion on their next podcast.

Posted by Jazzycola

@lively said:
This would still be cold comfort to people with now-useless PS3 / PS2 games.

Except they, most likely, still own a PS3 or PS2.

Posted by leebmx

I am trying to get my head around the PS4's specs but find I don't know enough about how processors, RAM, graphics cards etc work and work together to form my own opinion. Can anyone tell me a good site to go to which will explain it all for a relative newbie?

Posted by GERALTITUDE

Man, Shuhei rocks. Every time, all the time. When did the Sony Team become so likeable?

@lively said:

I wonder if switching to an x86 chip means that PlayStation 5, 6, and so on will have a much easier time with backwards compatibility. PC's, after all, have a practically unlimited back-catalogue, usually only hampered by drivers and operating systems (which can be fixed with enough tweaking).

Or, in the nearer future, maybe the PlayStation 4 will see a flood of PC ports.

This would still be cold comfort to people with now-useless PS3 / PS2 games.

PS5 will be all digital or cloud gaming, if they even make one. Remember, we're talking about 2020 here.

I've going to write something about this soon, but I just had to step in and say Nah.

Even in 2020 all of America will not have stable enough internet to eliminate disc-based formats entirely. And forget America. What about the rest of the world? Consoles are sold in more and more countries every year as the middle classes in Asia, the Middle East and South America continue to grow at a rapid rate. Do you really believe any company is going to build a box (uh, no box?) that can only run in countries with flawless internet? So, you do what Sony does. Make a box with a drive for when the internet doesn't work, and then allow streaming for those users who can enjoy it.

Look at how they're devouring the PS2 in Brazil (and it costs 500US bucks). Console gamers aren't going anywhere. And if there's money to be made... why not make money? If someone will buy a console, someone will make it.

Streaming and cloud gaming will always be the cherry on top, not the de facto, at least for the foreseeable future. This myth of the cloud is gaining a lot of traction now and I know a lot of people would love to jump down my throat, but it's just not going to happen that fast. Maybe in 2025 you will be able to buy a SKU that allows you to only stream, but the disc-based has to continue to exist. Don't believe the hype.

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