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Edited by mubress

The video below is a first to 5 set match between me as Balrog and a Ryu player over PSN.


 
  
So I'm looking for some analysis on how to improve basically. Here's what I have so far:
 
  • Level 1 Focus Attack which doesn't crumple, dash cancel into a grab. Got caught by that a bunch in the above match.
  • Teching Throws is something I don't normally have a problem with but proved to be a bit of an issue in all of the sets. I usually stand up if I think someone may try a grab because you have longer to react, but I had trouble reading this guy.
  • Turnaround Punch can't be punished unless they read it and attack before it hits. Think I need to use this more.
  • Fireball Zoning led to me getting annoyed and trying stupid things to get in. Need to stay patient.
  • Whiffing combos which I normally have no problem performing. The connection was great as well so I can't blame that unfortunately.
 
I'll be posting other videos against Ken, Akuma and Gouken players sometime soon. 
 
I don't have anyone on my friends list who really knows what they are doing with Guile, Chun Li or perhaps more surprisingly Sagat, so if anyone out there plays as one of those characters and is on PSN then let me know. My PSN is mubress2. 
Edited by lordofultima
@mubress:  
 
  • Level 1 Focus usually leaves people at frame dis-advantage, even if they dash out. You can probably punish wish crouching jab into whatever combo. There's a formula, I will edit with later.
  • I don't ever stand tech personally, but that's just me
  • It can be punished if it whiffs.
  • Balrog and Chun-Li are actually big Anti-Fireball characters IMO. You just need to relax and take control of the match.
  • If you break under pressure easily this can be a factor, even just the knowledge that you're recording the match can have subconscious effects.
Posted by AURON570

playing with the colours much ;) From what I know (not much) Turn punch has long start up and recovery times and shouldn't be used too much since it can be punished if you do it from the wrong range. If he's blocking all your dash punches, TAP won't do any better.

Posted by mubress
@lordofultima said:
" @mubress:  
 
  • Level 1 Focus usually leaves people at frame dis-advantage, even if they dash out. You can probably punish wish crouching jab into whatever combo. There's a formula, I will edit with later.
 I thought all I could do was tech in that situation, so if I can jab my way out that would be good to know. Cheers.
Posted by mubress
@AURON570: I get bored easily :)
 
I use TAP primarily as a way of getting through fireballs and getting near to opponents really. If it hits them that's a bonus.
Posted by lordofultima
@mubress said:
" @lordofultima said:
" @mubress:  
 
  • Level 1 Focus usually leaves people at frame dis-advantage, even if they dash out. You can probably punish wish crouching jab into whatever combo. There's a formula, I will edit with later.
 I thought all I could do was tech in that situation, so if I can jab my way out that would be good to know. Cheers. "
Yeah I think maybe Chun-Li is one of the only people to have a pretty good LV1 FA to dash.
Posted by Stang

You need to learn to dash ultra, pronto.

Edited by Scooper

You can punish those uppercuts with alot more then sweep. Sometimes it would finish the round if you did so. Also, I think you should use headbutt more, I know it can be risky at some points but that Ryu almost always was attacking on your wakeup and a headbutt, Ultra can sometimes be worth risking. I dunno though, is Ryu's hitbox safe from headbutts when he's doing a crouching forward? Maybe a headbutt wouldn't be a great idea if so.

Posted by StaticFalconar
@Stang said:
" You need to learn to dash ultra, pronto. "
or just develop the Keno eye and work your way to dash ultra. 
Edited by Partisan189

Just to let you know I am by no means a good sf IV player, so take this advice with a grain of salt: 
I think the biggest problem in your game is lacking fundamentals e.g. footsies, insufficient use of normals, lack of ability to punish, and inability to let go of charge to advance and apply pressure.
-The majority of your losses came from getting zoned out by fireballs and even when you got in mid/close range you were out footsied and thus was unable to open up opportunities for dealing dmg. Take a look at this guide: http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=221097. In my opinion, footsies is the most important tool in street fighter and if you can apply some level of pressure through footsies your game will change overnight.
-Balrog's strength does not lie in his specials so you should not be caught crouching or backing up as much to keep your charge up when playing a shoto like ryu. You should always be advancing or setting up ways for you to get inside so you can utilize your superior pokes in mid range (st.hp, st.hk, cr.hk). Another major problem with you poking game is become to predictable because you rely on cr.hk way too much thus leading to you getting baited by focus attacks. So mix up your pokes with armor breaking attacks if your getting baited by focus attacks a lot. Once you enter close range you should be applying pressure with your jab which should open up into bnb combos and tick throw attempts. Remember Balrog is a boxer and boxer's always rely on their jab to open opportunities.
-During the match the Ryu player got a lot sloppier whiffing psychic uppercuts which you should have punished with a with something more substantial than a poke. If Ryu whiffs an uppercut go to your bnb combos or if your dropping combos fallback on balrogs specials. If you simply punished his random uppercuts with headbutt>ultra or dash punch>super you would have won way more matches. Because you lack the footsy game to apply pressure and open up opportunities for dealing dmg you should look at every punish opportunity as a way for you to get back into the game with a dmging combo. If you're going to practice one combo as Balrog, practice headbutt>ultra, if you can land that consistently off a punish it totally changes the game for your opponent because it causes him to play more defensively and this allows you to apply pressure and but him on the defensive which will throw him off his game.
 
Just some extra things to consider:
-Your go to move when getting zoned out by fireballs is not TAP, instead: neutral/safe jump (best option), fadc (good for building up ultra but potential to lose more health), ex dash punch (what you really should have been doing instead of TAP), and lp headbutt through fireballs at long range.
-When crouched you can spam throw because you can't throw while crouched and instead you will prob jab which beats throw unless you are in block stun, but if you are standing and you hit throw too early you will either whiff and thus open yourself up to be punished or get hit by a low attack into a combo.
-Also #1 thing when your having trouble getting inside is BE PATIENT. Don't try to rush opportunities because that only leads to mistakes on your part.
-Hopefully some of this info helps you and if you want more make sure to look on shoryuken.com and more specifically the Balrog forum which has tons of info to study and plenty more helpful and knowledgeable players to help you.

Edited by mubress
@Partisan189: Thanks for the response. All seems to be good advice to me. 
 
After watching it back I think late ex dash punches through fireballs would have scored me a few free points, but it's harder to notice these things while your playing :(
 
@StaticFalconar said:

" @Stang said:

" You need to learn to dash ultra, pronto. "
or just develop the Keno eye and work your way to dash ultra.  "

Well I can do dash super/ultra in training, but in a match it's a different matter. It's something I'm working on though.
Posted by AniMoney

You need to punish whiffed srks with c.mp xx headbutt, and then ultra if you have it. You can use jab jab short heabutt or another bnb(ex rush upper combos if you can) too but only punish with sweep or throw of you don't have charge or you're out of range. 
 
If they want to throw fireballs at you, just sit back and absorb/neutral jump passively and build some ultra meter and eventually they'll come to you. Try to stay around your s.hk and c.hk range and out poke your opponent. Be looking for their jumps and c.hp them. And if they try to throw a fireball too close jump in. Jump fierce has a deceptively large hitbox and will hit from a good distance btw. TAP and ex rush punches can be good to get in but good players wont fall for that shit too much. Dash ultra is a game changer if you can do it, but it's hard as hell and I can't even do it. If they get up in your face, option select tech and jab, but don't go for unsafe shit like headbutts unless you're desperate.  
 
As far as matchup specific stuff goes, if Ryu gets you in the corner he's either gonna fireball trap you, or go for corner pressure. He wants to make you guess with throw techs and ex tatsu juggles. He can also go for annoying corner crossups and jab/c.mp pressure. Usually they'll go for the ex tatsu > ultra though. Balrog doesn't have many good options, just block it out, take a big risk with an ex headbutt, or look for an oppurtunity to jump out and turn the tables on him. 
 
When you get him in the corner, you can stay in poke range and punish his jump outs and kind of just sit there and be annoying. Or you can rush down with repeated jump roundhouses, safe blockstrings, tick grabs, neutral jump fierce, focus( I rarely do this though). You can whiff jabs on his wakeup to bait stuff or go into a throw or a combo if the jabs hit. Mix it up by backing up out of throw range to make him whiff a throw or a low short and then do c.mp xx dash straight. The thing you gotta watch out for is a reversal srk which will pretty much ruin your corner game, just gotta read the player and guess on that. If they have 2 stocks then expect it sooner rather than later as they'll want to get out before taking damage. The other thing to watch out for is air tatsu to pretty much escape for free. I fucking hate that shit, because it's really hard to guess when they'll do it and it's really hard to punish.

Posted by mubress
@AniMoney said:

"The other thing to watch out for is air tatsu to pretty much escape for free. I fucking hate that shit, because it's really hard to guess when they'll do it and it's really hard to punish. "

Just do this. Then there's no way out.
 
  
 
 
I'll just master this (plus all the other stuff you said) and then I'll be the greatest Balrog player what ever lived!
 
Right?
Posted by Napalm

Just some quick tips pertaining to Guile:

  • Go defensive. Like, go turtle. Seriously.
  • Get the player in the rhythm of a steady stream of Sonic Booms, and then rush through with one of his special punches. You won't land it, but you can close the gap real quick and make them nervous.
  • If you plant a Guile player in the corner, use Rog's c.FK and c.FP to keep them there.
 
If you have Xbox Live, we can fight sometime tonight if you'd like. My X360GT is Faster Disaster.
Posted by mubress
@Napalm: On PSN I'm afraid which is a real shame as I need to find a decent Guile to record some games against :(
 
Cheers anyway.
Posted by lordofultima

Standing Roundhouse is an invaluable tool in the footsies range for Balrog, especially against shotos.

Posted by GetEveryone

I hope I'm not the Gouken player. I've not played him in so long, had such a bad show.
 
Also, I really need practice against Balrog. Pessh and I had some matches earlier, which helped a bit, but I need more general help against the speed of his jabs. I'm Ken btw. I'm up for a few more bouts if you are mubress.

Posted by baelrrogg
@mubress said:
I don't have anyone on my friends list who really knows what they are doing with Guile, Chun Li or perhaps more surprisingly Sagat, so if anyone out there plays as one of those characters and is on PSN then let me know. My PSN is mubress2.  "

I play as Sagat. I doubt i"m any better than the one you already play but I can give it a shot to see. PSN is Dryph. 
 
Let me know.
Posted by mubress
@GetEveryone: Well lggins whose played in a couple of the PS3 tourneys on these forums was going to be my Ken matchup, but he's just decided to start learning to use a stick in prep for SSFIV, so we could play that matchup if u like.
 
@baelrrogg:
Yeah sure. I'll add you u
Edited by Plasma

The combination of Ryu with good execution and solid basics is a pretty formidable force.

Posted by lordofultima
@Plasma said:
" The combination of Ryu with good execution and solid basics is a pretty formidable force. "
Yeah man, Ryu is so good. Best character in the game pretty much.
Posted by wfolse1

I certainly can't talk like I am an experienced Balrog player, but one thing that I noticed it a relative dearth of EX dash punch moves.  These should absorb one hit of a fireball and should also move quickly enough to punish the player who threw it.  From there you can go into your cr.LP strings into dash punch or headbutt -> ultra or whatever else.  Just my two cents.  Wish you had the game on xbox because Id like to play against a pretty good Balrog player to brush up my own skills.

Posted by dbz1995

I'm not an experienced SF player (and I've only played SFIV once), but you never threw Ryu once throughout that game. Maybe you should throw more? Or is that because you didn't have the opportunity?

Posted by lordofultima

Locked. There's a match video thread.