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Posted by oldschool
@Trilogy said:
" @oldschool said:
" @Trilogy said:
" @oldschool said:

" @Trilogy said:

" Nintendo fanboys... thanks for the laughs. "
You are espousing the same simple minded nonsense you perpetrated on the other thread.  This isn't about Nintendo, this is about Jeff's bad and very childish attempts at journalism, that wouldn't get printed in your hometown newspaper because it so void of intellect.  The Nintendo aspect is completely irrelevant. "
Maybe for you it is but I have no vested interest in this article at all.  I just think it's hilarious to see all of the nintendo fanboys come out and condemn Jeff. Fanboyism = Simpleminded.  You're a pretty damn good example of this. Therefore, you make me laugh. Therefore, thank you. "
Oh yes, you got me good.  Me and my 360, Xbox, 2 x PSP, PS2, PS1, Sega Mega Drive, Sega Master System, PC and assorted Nintendo consoles are such fanboys.  Again, show me how I mentioned Nintendo in any of the replies or stop talking out of Jeff's arse.  All I have read here is simply about the worst kind of journalism perpetrated by the stupidest thread any staff member here has made, and that is saying a lot. "
I'm not trying to "get" you. This isn't an argument between me and you really and I'm not about to defend Jeff. He's a grown ass man and he can defend himself if he wants to. 
 
All I'm saying is that fanboyism is pathetic. I mainly play games on a 360 but I also game on my pc, my ps2, my Wii and other various systems. That being said, you don't see me getting upset if somebody takes a a big fat verbal dump on the 360 or microsoft  because I'm not a fanboy. I don't get defensive and call out the integrity of game journalists when they don't agree with me. Fanboys do.
 
 Lets face it, if this article was about an official sony magazine doing a special on the next major ps3 exclusive, you wouldn't be upset. "
By the contrary, I repeatedly pointed out that it would be just as pathetic if it were about a high profile game on either the 360 or PS3.  My commentary is console neutral.  I am not in the slightest bit upset.  It is just another confirmation for me that journalism here is a sad and pathetic joke, not that it needed more confirmation. 
 
You need to try and separate commentary about bad journalism and game console preference.  They are distinctly different things.  Every time someone criticises poor journalism on a Nintendo product it is too quickly slated as fanboyism and it is far from it.  The Nintendo users here don't really care who dislikes the Wii, they are too busy playing it and having fun.  However, if they see studity in any form, like this thread, then they are entitled to call "crap journalism" when they see it. 
 
Just for the record, I never came close to finishing Super Mario Galaxy as it both made me sick and didn't really excite me (it did look good though) and I am in no hurry to buy SMG2 (I haven't even bought NSMB yet), so it isn't even as if I have some vested interest in the game.  This is not new news, as I have that position clear several times before.
Posted by TheHoax

Well, to be honest what else have they got to review? Fuck all probably. Picross? Wait, don't tell me. NEXT MONTH: 10 PAGE REVIEW OF PICROSS 3D! THE ONLY REVIEW THAT MATTERS. Fuck off. Future are just shit in general. I know how all these "official" magazine's are supposed to print good quality stuff but seriously you can't really expect a bad review of a Nintendo game when the mag is called "The Official Nintendo Magazine". Heck, they might even be employed by Nintendo. And also, for anyone in the - check out FirstPlay on the PS Store. It is ultra-shit, despite it's amazing pedigree,"from the makers of the Official Playstation Magazine". Sounds more like the Official Corporate Blowjob Magazine to me    

Posted by Olivaw
@CookieMonster said:
" The day that Nintendo Official Magazine gave Red Steel a 92 out of 100 score was the day I stopped buying Nintendo Official Magazine. "
Wait, Red Steel 1?
 
Yeah that's pretty unacceptable.
Posted by oldschool
@Olivaw said:
" @CookieMonster said:
" The day that Nintendo Official Magazine gave Red Steel a 92 out of 100 score was the day I stopped buying Nintendo Official Magazine. "
Wait, Red Steel 1?  Yeah that's pretty unacceptable. "
Actually, it gave it a 91, so we need to be accurate, and let us also remember that NGamer, an unofficial magazine, gave the game a 90 and Play gave it an 85.  You can't just isolate one game score and pretend that this is representative of everything.  I don't own the game, so I have no view.
Posted by ajump23

Keep this up Jeff and Giantbomb is going to fire you too.  [face_badjoke]

Posted by TheHBK
@ChrisONM: Dude, having your magazine say that your review is the only one that matters is unprofessional, that in and of itself is a criticism and insult to other publications, including Giant Bomb.  Putting out all this stuff for the game, the covers, the 10 page review?, the masterpiece comment, thats what makes you guys look biased.  Not that Nintendo is in your name or that you love nintendo games.  Insults are not welcome, but I dont see where Jeff did that.  Criticism should always be welcome and your stance that you are immune to it and should not pay attention to it says that you believe you are infallible and will ignore the problems and concerns people may have with your magazine.  You cant tell me that you, as a gamer, would not be a little alarmed at how this review may not be a little biased when you see everything ONM is doing for it before it is even reviewed.  Giant Bomb is not perfect, but neither is ONM, and we just wanted to point that out.
Posted by Olivaw
@oldschool said:
" @Olivaw said:
" @CookieMonster said:
" The day that Nintendo Official Magazine gave Red Steel a 92 out of 100 score was the day I stopped buying Nintendo Official Magazine. "
Wait, Red Steel 1?  Yeah that's pretty unacceptable. "
Actually, it gave it a 91, so we need to be accurate, and let us also remember that NGamer, an unofficial magazine, gave the game a 90 and Play gave it an 85.  You can't just isolate one game score and pretend that this is representative of everything.  I don't own the game, so I have no view. "
I have played the game for a significant length of time.
 
Anything above a 60, maybe a 65, cannot be justified.
 
So I'm perfectly willing to say that those NGamer and Play reviews are also unacceptable.
Posted by Scooper

Well if I'm buying a game on the 360 the only reviews that matter are ones from OXM. What the point of the review at that point. It sounds more like a 10-page guide or information about the game for people super interested in Mario for some reason.

Posted by oldschool
@Olivaw said:
" @oldschool said:
" @Olivaw said:
" @CookieMonster said:
" The day that Nintendo Official Magazine gave Red Steel a 92 out of 100 score was the day I stopped buying Nintendo Official Magazine. "
Wait, Red Steel 1?  Yeah that's pretty unacceptable. "
Actually, it gave it a 91, so we need to be accurate, and let us also remember that NGamer, an unofficial magazine, gave the game a 90 and Play gave it an 85.  You can't just isolate one game score and pretend that this is representative of everything.  I don't own the game, so I have no view. "
I have played the game for a significant length of time.
 
Anything above a 60, maybe a 65, cannot be justified.  So I'm perfectly willing to say that those NGamer and Play reviews are also unacceptable. "
I don't doubt that it is a 60 for you, but all reviewing is just personal opinion and in a way, all scores are correct.  The thing here is that ONM is the target here, yet, in all cases of a highish score for ONM, you will find several comparable scores from other sites as well.  That just makes ONM another magazine, no different to others.  Again I repeat, I read NGamer, not ONM.
Posted by Kill

I used to read Nintendo Official Magazine back in the N64 days. They basically promoted the fanboy attitude with a section of the magazine devoted to fan drawings of Mario killing Sonic in gruesome ways, while their features constantly put down Sega and Sony. 
 
I was suckered into the hate in my young mind until I discovered these same writers and editors worked on multiplatform magazines, as well as Playstation magazines...  
 
Yeah, don't trust "Official" magazines, people.

Posted by Capum15
@Toxin066 said:
" I heard Jeff's review of this review is mentioned in that review so we can't read Jeff's review and trust it 100% because he's mentioned their review in his review of that review. Or something. "
*Head explodes*
Edited by Olivaw
@oldschool said:

" @Olivaw said:

" @oldschool said:
" @Olivaw said:
" @CookieMonster said:
" The day that Nintendo Official Magazine gave Red Steel a 92 out of 100 score was the day I stopped buying Nintendo Official Magazine. "
Wait, Red Steel 1?  Yeah that's pretty unacceptable. "
Actually, it gave it a 91, so we need to be accurate, and let us also remember that NGamer, an unofficial magazine, gave the game a 90 and Play gave it an 85.  You can't just isolate one game score and pretend that this is representative of everything.  I don't own the game, so I have no view. "
I have played the game for a significant length of time.
 
Anything above a 60, maybe a 65, cannot be justified.  So I'm perfectly willing to say that those NGamer and Play reviews are also unacceptable. "
I don't doubt that it is a 60 for you, but all reviewing is just personal opinion and in a way, all scores are correct.  The thing here is that ONM is the target here, yet, in all cases of a highish score for ONM, you will find several comparable scores from other sites as well.  That just makes ONM another magazine, no different to others.  Again I repeat, I read NGamer, not ONM. "
The difference between ONM and NGamer though is the "official" moniker.
 
Trying to pretend that you are no different from anyone other games journalist when you are being paid and funded by the people who made the game you are reviewing is nonsense.
 
Sure, other people probably have the same opinion somewhere, but they are not being paid by Nintendo to express it. Unless it's under the table. We don't know! This conspiracy could go to the very top. (joke)
Posted by august

My only problem with this article is that implying bias at an Official Game Publisher Magazine is kind of like making fun of a clown's ridiculously large shoes.

Edited by Trilogy
@oldschool said:

" By the contrary, I repeatedly pointed out that it would be just as pathetic if it were about a high profile game on either the 360 or PS3.  My commentary is console neutral.  I am not in the slightest bit upset.  It is just another confirmation for me that journalism here is a sad and pathetic joke, not that it needed more confirmation.  You need to try and separate commentary about bad journalism and game console preference.  They are distinctly different things.  Every time someone criticises poor journalism on a Nintendo product it is too quickly slated as fanboyism and it is far from it.  The Nintendo users here don't really care who dislikes the Wii, they are too busy playing it and having fun.  However, if they see studity in any form, like this thread, then they are entitled to call "crap journalism" when they see it.  Just for the record, I never came close to finishing Super Mario Galaxy as it both made me sick and didn't really excite me (it did look good though) and I am in no hurry to buy SMG2 (I haven't even bought NSMB yet), so it isn't even as if I have some vested interest in the game.  This is not new news, as I have that position clear several times before. "

If that is how you honestly feel then perhaps I hold the slightest morsal of respect for you over some of the obvious fanboys in this thread. That doesn't mean I agree with you but hey, that's the nature of the internet. In my opinion, an official magazine's review of a game that company makes is pretty pointless. That doesn't mean that the magazine itself is pointless. I used to play games on nothing but nintendo as a child and I loved reading nintendo power. Today, I have the understanding to raise an eyebrow to any review of an official magazine. Likewise, I wouldn't trust giantbomb's reviews if it was employed by Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft and I hope you wouldn't either.
 
I have an honest question for you. Why do you still come here? If you don't trust the journalism here then why be a part of the community that supports it? I mean, if you enjoy complaining about articles then so be it, stay and complain. I can't help but wonder what the point is. Are you hoping to get a response from Jeff? I mean, at this point you have pretty much insulted Jeff by stating how much of an idiot you think he is and how poor you think his journalism is. Therefore, I can't imagine that you are looking to get through to him. Perhaps you stay for the other staff members? It's an honest question without any undertones. I'm just curious.
Posted by cichy69

wow... what is this world coming to :]   .. good thing that they did not create over 300 magazines with different pokemon on it ;]

Edited by MjHealy

I have one or two copies of the Official Nintendo magazine in my collection and let me tell you something, it's a joke.
 
They just seem to be giving high scores to games that have no business of being called great, it just seems they get back-handers slipped to them by Nintendo. 85 for Red Steel? Fuck off. The magazine is also a little skint on content. How many good Wii games are released every month? Not too many it seems.

Posted by pepper

Jeez, bet all this good press for this game was totally unsolicited.

Posted by ChrisONM
@Olivaw said: 
The difference between ONM and NGamer though is the "official" moniker.
 
Trying to pretend that you are no different from anyone other games journalist when you are being paid and funded by the people who made the game you are reviewing is nonsense.
 
Sure, other people probably have the same opinion somewhere, but they are not being paid by Nintendo to express it. Unless it's under the table. We don't know! This conspiracy could go to the very top. (joke) "
 
I beg your pardon? 
 
We are not paid by, or funded by Nintendo. At all. Our license gives us early access to games and that's all. ONM is a Future Publishing magazine (as is NGamer) and we are employees of Future (as are NGamer). We are NOT on Nintendo's payroll, and the examples I gave in my initial post of low review scores for Nintendo games indicate this. Why would Nintendo pay us to say WarioWare Snapped doesn't work or that Mario Party 8 isn't fun?
 
There's giving an opinion, and there's making completely wrong and offensive claims. I didn't spend four years at university getting my degree in journalism to be told what opinion to give.  
 
By all means have an opinion, but please use the truth to back it up and not complete lies. We are not being "paid and funded" by the people who make the games we review, because if we were that sort of corruption wouldn't have us on the newsstands for long.
Posted by Linkyshinks
@PenguinDust said: 

" In all fairness, OXM (offical xbox mag) used to do this type of stuff, too.  Okay, not 6 different covers, but they would have a few to choose from on newsstands and an additional one for home subscribers.    But, it's actions like this from publications that highlight the sentiment that the games press is just another arm of game marketing.  In this case, Official Nintendo Magazine might as well have a cubical right next to the PR department at Nintendo HQ.  Hype is one thing, shameless adoration is another.    Still, there are economic reasons for this as well.  Chances are the Nintendo faithful will collect several issues if they like the covers, plus people who don't normally buy gaming magazines might pick up a copy if it has lots of coverage and secrets to this latest installment in the Mario franchise.  Every issue sold validates a print magazine's existence. "

 
All games magazines are doing this in varying degrees because of the current climate. If you look in the typical "Next Month" pages you'll often find text very much akin to what's found in the Future's PR. Print mags, god bless them, are forced to do whatever they can to keep issues flying off the shelves and subscriptions up, Multiple covers and such slogans are an age old way of doing this.   
 
ONM isn't Nintendo Power in the early 90's, their reviews scores to date prove this well.    
Posted by august
@ChrisONM said:
" @Olivaw said: 
The difference between ONM and NGamer though is the "official" moniker.
 
Trying to pretend that you are no different from anyone other games journalist when you are being paid and funded by the people who made the game you are reviewing is nonsense.
 
Sure, other people probably have the same opinion somewhere, but they are not being paid by Nintendo to express it. Unless it's under the table. We don't know! This conspiracy could go to the very top. (joke) "
 I beg your pardon?  We are not paid by, or funded by Nintendo. At all. Our license gives us early access to games and that's all. ONM is a Future Publishing magazine (as is NGamer) and we are employees of Future (as are NGamer). We are NOT on Nintendo's payroll, and the examples I gave in my initial post of low review scores for Nintendo games indicate this. Why would Nintendo pay us to say WarioWare Snapped doesn't work or that Mario Party 8 isn't fun? There's giving an opinion, and there's making completely wrong and offensive claims. I didn't spend four years at university getting my degree in journalism to be told what opinion to give.   By all means have an opinion, but please use the truth to back it up and not complete lies. We are not being "paid and funded" by the people who make the games we review, because if we were that sort of corruption wouldn't have us on the newsstands for long. "
Perhaps you should consider changing the name of your publication to something other than "Official Nintendo Magazine," then.  
 
And, having taken a job at a publication with such a moniker, you should be totally unsurprised that the general public would come to the conclusion that you are on the Nintendo payroll, and respond with something other than emotional indignation when presented with that reality.
Posted by Linkyshinks
@august said:
" @ChrisONM said:
" @Olivaw said: 
The difference between ONM and NGamer though is the "official" moniker.
 
Trying to pretend that you are no different from anyone other games journalist when you are being paid and funded by the people who made the game you are reviewing is nonsense.
 
Sure, other people probably have the same opinion somewhere, but they are not being paid by Nintendo to express it. Unless it's under the table. We don't know! This conspiracy could go to the very top. (joke) "
 I beg your pardon?  We are not paid by, or funded by Nintendo. At all. Our license gives us early access to games and that's all. ONM is a Future Publishing magazine (as is NGamer) and we are employees of Future (as are NGamer). We are NOT on Nintendo's payroll, and the examples I gave in my initial post of low review scores for Nintendo games indicate this. Why would Nintendo pay us to say WarioWare Snapped doesn't work or that Mario Party 8 isn't fun? There's giving an opinion, and there's making completely wrong and offensive claims. I didn't spend four years at university getting my degree in journalism to be told what opinion to give.   By all means have an opinion, but please use the truth to back it up and not complete lies. We are not being "paid and funded" by the people who make the games we review, because if we were that sort of corruption wouldn't have us on the newsstands for long. "
Perhaps you should consider changing the name of your publication to something other than "Official Nintendo Magazine," then.   And, having taken a job at a publication with such a moniker, you should be totally unsurprised that the general public would come to the conclusion that you are on the Nintendo payroll, and respond with something other than emotional indignation when presented with that reality. "
 
I think most people are intelligent enough to know that such a moniker means only that they're licensed by Nintendo, not tun by them.
Posted by Olivaw

 @ChrisONM said:

" @Olivaw said: 

The difference between ONM and NGamer though is the "official" moniker.
 
Trying to pretend that you are no different from anyone other games journalist when you are being paid and funded by the people who made the game you are reviewing is nonsense.
 
Sure, other people probably have the same opinion somewhere, but they are not being paid by Nintendo to express it. Unless it's under the table. We don't know! This conspiracy could go to the very top. (joke) "
 I beg your pardon?  We are not paid by, or funded by Nintendo. At all. Our license gives us early access to games and that's all. ONM is a Future Publishing magazine (as is NGamer) and we are employees of Future (as are NGamer). We are NOT on Nintendo's payroll, and the examples I gave in my initial post of low review scores for Nintendo games indicate this. Why would Nintendo pay us to say WarioWare Snapped doesn't work or that Mario Party 8 isn't fun? There's giving an opinion, and there's making completely wrong and offensive claims. I didn't spend four years at university getting my degree in journalism to be told what opinion to give.   By all means have an opinion, but please use the truth to back it up and not complete lies. We are not being "paid and funded" by the people who make the games we review, because if we were that sort of corruption wouldn't have us on the newsstands for long. "
Okay, fair enough. My mistake.
 
Now I have a question: at what point does money change hands? Because if you are an employee of a publisher and that publisher is independent of Nintendo, then either Future is paying for early exclusives from Nintendo or Nintendo is paying Future to have a number of Nintendo-centric magazines covering only Nintendo games and in return is supplying them with early access.
 
I don't see what Nintendo has to gain by providing Future and only Future with early access to their games for free. Obviously Future benefits, and Nintendo benefits also if the reviews are glowing, upping the Metacritic score. But someone has to benefit somewhere from this sort of arrangement.
 
Furthermore, is there any pressure from anywhere in the publisher to be more lenient on Nintendo exclusives as opposed to multiplatform games, particularly popular or big name exclusives? Essentially I'm asking if Future can have their early access taken away by Nintendo if they are not happy with the coverage they are receiving.
 
These are the sorts of things I wonder when I see an "official" magazine for any company, and now that you're telling me that people at Official Nintendo Magazine who cover solely Nintendo games are not employed by Nintendo, I wonder even more.
Posted by Spongetwan

Man, that cinematic really was good. Hopefully the game is half that good

Posted by Tatsukishi

This site seriously needs more Nintendo news its sad the first page can go back to January when so much has come out on the Wii in that time frame.

Posted by Linkyshinks
@Tatsukishi said:
" This site seriously needs more Nintendo news its sad the first page can go back to January when so much has come out on the Wii in that time frame. "
 
Yup, it's been that way over here from the start.
Posted by BOOM
@LordXavierBritish said:
"

Do the people at Future just take rounds sucking Miyamoto's dick?

"
Yes.
Posted by Lambert

Only a few games I can think of that warrant a 10-page review; Final Fantasy 13 comes to mind as you need a minimum of 10 pages to talk about how crappy it is, and many reasons you should avoid it. Of course, the review wouldn't actually start until the 9th page.
 
It is unfortunate what gaming has come to. There is a reason why others will never take gaming seriously and it is because people just can't grow-up from the same, rehashed Nintendo games.

Posted by FlipperDesert

Now someone needs to review this review of a review, then someone needs to offer constructive feedback on that.

Posted by Derios

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but i think you misinterpreted their "only review that matters". I think what they meant by that is that, that's the only game review in that issue that is of importance. But still stupid advertising ploy nonetheless.

Posted by hinderk

The nintendo fanboys on this site make me ashamed to love my wii.

Posted by brandt

" Official Nintendo Magazine has the definitive verdict on the latest and greatest Mario game "   
 
Since it's apparently the greatest Mario game to date, judging by their Super Mario Galaxy 1 review , giving it a 97, we at least know it's greater than that. 
  
I'm gonna take a wild card and bet at 98.  

Posted by Olivaw
@Derios said:
" I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but i think you misinterpreted their "only review that matters". I think what they meant by that is that, that's the only game review in that issue that is of importance. But still stupid advertising ploy nonetheless. "
Oh.
 
Huh.
 
Well that makes sense, I suppose.
Posted by Rhombus_Of_Terror

NEVER?

Posted by Bouz
@ChrisONM: If your magazine was not biased then any and all highly reviewed games should by the president you set with the Mario Galaxy 2 review warrant 10 page reviews.
Edited by oldschool
@Olivaw said:

" @oldschool said:

" @Olivaw said:

" @oldschool said:
" @Olivaw said:
" @CookieMonster said:
" The day that Nintendo Official Magazine gave Red Steel a 92 out of 100 score was the day I stopped buying Nintendo Official Magazine. "
Wait, Red Steel 1?  Yeah that's pretty unacceptable. "
Actually, it gave it a 91, so we need to be accurate, and let us also remember that NGamer, an unofficial magazine, gave the game a 90 and Play gave it an 85.  You can't just isolate one game score and pretend that this is representative of everything.  I don't own the game, so I have no view. "
I have played the game for a significant length of time.
 
Anything above a 60, maybe a 65, cannot be justified.  So I'm perfectly willing to say that those NGamer and Play reviews are also unacceptable. "
I don't doubt that it is a 60 for you, but all reviewing is just personal opinion and in a way, all scores are correct.  The thing here is that ONM is the target here, yet, in all cases of a highish score for ONM, you will find several comparable scores from other sites as well.  That just makes ONM another magazine, no different to others.  Again I repeat, I read NGamer, not ONM. "
The difference between ONM and NGamer though is the "official" moniker.
 
Trying to pretend that you are no different from anyone other games journalist when you are being paid and funded by the people who made the game you are reviewing is nonsense.
 
Sure, other people probably have the same opinion somewhere, but they are not being paid by Nintendo to express it. Unless it's under the table. We don't know! This conspiracy could go to the very top. (joke) "
I don't believe they are being paid to write what Nintendo tell them to.  Sure, it is pretty obvious that there is an underlying feel that if you work for a magazine that encompasses a single company's product that you are not going to write hate filled articles, but I think you will find they have editorial independence overall.  I think we also need to accept that if you read a magazine of any console that is just dedicated to that console, you are pretty confident you are going to get positive stuff.  That is exactly why I DON'T buy official magazines.  I know what to expect and I prefer my information a little more independent, but it doesn't invalidate the work they do.  Of course they are going to make claims of exclusivity and trumpet their review of the game, that is just marketing spin to sell magazines, but not PR for Nintendo.  Plus, as ChrisONM points out, they are a privately funded magazine, but that point has been well covered.
 
This is what makes Jeff's article so stupid and juvenile.  He sets himself up as some kind of beacon and just makes himself look churlish.  That is bad journalism, full stop.
Edited by Daniel_Newton

On the first skim through this article I thought you get six limited edition covers for the game with the magazine, which I thought was pretty stupid. Then I realised it was saying the same issue of the magazine is available in six different limited edition covers... that's all the way stupid.

Posted by Bouz
@Derios said:
" I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but i think you misinterpreted their "only review that matters". I think what they meant by that is that, that's the only game review in that issue that is of importance. But still stupid advertising ploy nonetheless. "
Yeah that's probably what they meant.
Posted by oldschool
@Trilogy said:
" @oldschool said:

" By the contrary, I repeatedly pointed out that it would be just as pathetic if it were about a high profile game on either the 360 or PS3.  My commentary is console neutral.  I am not in the slightest bit upset.  It is just another confirmation for me that journalism here is a sad and pathetic joke, not that it needed more confirmation.  You need to try and separate commentary about bad journalism and game console preference.  They are distinctly different things.  Every time someone criticises poor journalism on a Nintendo product it is too quickly slated as fanboyism and it is far from it.  The Nintendo users here don't really care who dislikes the Wii, they are too busy playing it and having fun.  However, if they see studity in any form, like this thread, then they are entitled to call "crap journalism" when they see it.  Just for the record, I never came close to finishing Super Mario Galaxy as it both made me sick and didn't really excite me (it did look good though) and I am in no hurry to buy SMG2 (I haven't even bought NSMB yet), so it isn't even as if I have some vested interest in the game.  This is not new news, as I have that position clear several times before. "

If that is how you honestly feel then perhaps I hold the slightest morsal of respect for you over some of the obvious fanboys in this thread. That doesn't mean I agree with you but hey, that's the nature of the internet. In my opinion, an official magazine's review of a game that company makes is pretty pointless. That doesn't mean that the magazine itself is pointless. I used to play games on nothing but nintendo as a child and I loved reading nintendo power. Today, I have the understanding to raise an eyebrow to any review of an official magazine. Likewise, I wouldn't trust giantbomb's reviews if it was employed by Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft and I hope you wouldn't either. I have an honest question for you. Why do you still come here? If you don't trust the journalism here then why be a part of the community that supports it? I mean, if you enjoy complaining about articles then so be it, stay and complain. I can't help but wonder what the point is. Are you hoping to get a response from Jeff? I mean, at this point you have pretty much insulted Jeff by stating how much of an idiot you think he is and how poor you think his journalism is. Therefore, I can't imagine that you are looking to get through to him. Perhaps you stay for the other staff members? It's an honest question without any undertones. I'm just curious. "
You and I both have some reservation about official magazines, but then again, I am not all that keen on any magazine in a big way as I have made my views very clear in the past (here) that reviews are just opinions and are treated with way too much reverence.  I just skim reviews looking for facts, not opinions.  I already know what I like, I just want to be sure it actually works without game breaking issues.  It is one of the reasons I dislike Jeff's version of "journalism".  He is skewed in a way I find both annoying and without merit. 
 
Which leads to the answer to the second part.  I am here for the forums only.  It is a good venue for opinion as it isn't moderated to the point of blandness.  I don't swear on threads, but I don't have an issue with it.  I also don't mind forceful debate that may get a little heated, without someone ending up with a ban.  That is what makes this a great site.  I just get my information and news elsewhere, the internet is full of alternate sources, and not just Nintendo, but all information that interests me.  Each to their own.  That doesn't preclude me from voicing dissent when I see stupid articles like this one.  It also doesn't preclude me from criticising others sources of "journalism" when I see crap, as I have done before.  I also joined because of one very good friend here who told me about it.  Their is a very good community of people here and I enjoy the conversations, even when we don't agree.
Posted by oldschool
@Newten said:
" On the first skim through this article I thought you get six limited edition covers for the game with the magazine, which I thought was pretty stupid. Then I realised it was saying the same issue of the magazine is available in six different limited edition covers... that's all the way stupid. "
This isn't something unique to ONM.  Hell, it isn't even unique to games magazines.  It is a marketing ploy to sell more copies.  Some people believe it or not, will collect them all (why I will never understand).  NGamer (not official) did it with LEGO Batman and had over 10 different covers I think, plus there were other magazines who are multiplatform that have done exactly the same thing.  If it is stupid for one, it is stupid for all.  It is however stupid to criticise this simply because it is a Nintendo magazine.  
Posted by Olivaw
@oldschool said:
" @Newten said:
" On the first skim through this article I thought you get six limited edition covers for the game with the magazine, which I thought was pretty stupid. Then I realised it was saying the same issue of the magazine is available in six different limited edition covers... that's all the way stupid. "
This isn't something unique to ONM.  Hell, it isn't even unique to games magazines.  It is a marketing ploy to sell more copies.  Some people believe it or not, will collect them all (why I will never understand).  NGamer (not official) did it with LEGO Batman and had over 10 different covers I think, plus there were other magazines who are multiplatform that have done exactly the same thing.  If it is stupid for one, it is stupid for all.  It is however stupid to criticise this simply because it is a Nintendo magazine.   "
I don't think that anyone is doing that.
 
I think we would all be saying that it's pretty dumb if it were a Microsoft magazine talking about the next Fable game with ten different covers and devoting ten pages to saying it's great.
Posted by oldschool
@Olivaw said:
" @oldschool said:
" @Newten said:
" On the first skim through this article I thought you get six limited edition covers for the game with the magazine, which I thought was pretty stupid. Then I realised it was saying the same issue of the magazine is available in six different limited edition covers... that's all the way stupid. "
This isn't something unique to ONM.  Hell, it isn't even unique to games magazines.  It is a marketing ploy to sell more copies.  Some people believe it or not, will collect them all (why I will never understand).  NGamer (not official) did it with LEGO Batman and had over 10 different covers I think, plus there were other magazines who are multiplatform that have done exactly the same thing.  If it is stupid for one, it is stupid for all.  It is however stupid to criticise this simply because it is a Nintendo magazine.   "
I don't think that anyone is doing that.  I think we would all be saying that it's pretty dumb if it were a Microsoft magazine talking about the next Fable game with ten different covers and devoting ten pages to saying it's great. "
We agree, sort of.  It would be no different, but it wouldn't be a big deal.  Sure, I wouldn't read it, just as won't read ONMs, but it is just marketing.  In a way, it is just like Jeff's article here - playing to your audience.  It doesn't make it good, but your fans just lap it up.  Lowest common denominator journalism is the worst kind, but at least ONM are doing something positive (even if I don't care about it).
Edited by Willy105
@Olivaw said:

" @oldschool said:

" @Newten said:

" On the first skim through this article I thought you get six limited edition covers for the game with the magazine, which I thought was pretty stupid. Then I realised it was saying the same issue of the magazine is available in six different limited edition covers... that's all the way stupid. "
This isn't something unique to ONM.  Hell, it isn't even unique to games magazines.  It is a marketing ploy to sell more copies.  Some people believe it or not, will collect them all (why I will never understand).  NGamer (not official) did it with LEGO Batman and had over 10 different covers I think, plus there were other magazines who are multiplatform that have done exactly the same thing.  If it is stupid for one, it is stupid for all.  It is however stupid to criticise this simply because it is a Nintendo magazine.   "
I don't think that anyone is doing that.  I think we would all be saying that it's pretty dumb if it were a Microsoft magazine talking about the next Fable game with ten different covers and devoting ten pages to saying it's great. "
Well...duh.
 
It's all in the audience.
 
 @Tatsukishi said:

" This site seriously needs more Nintendo news its sad the first page can go back to January when so much has come out on the Wii in that time frame. "

Giantbomb is a small site, and they have to tend to their majority fanbase, and that fanbase doesn't really care much about things like Wii, Natal, and Move.
 
You are not going to get anything by complaining about it. If you want to change it, get more people in here!
Edited by Ffenix

 I don't know if this has been brought up in the discussion (too much shouting in the previous comments and I just tuned out), but I think the point of Jeff's article is not about bias, but how a video game review is handled by everyone in the gaming press (either officially-sanctioned by a company or an independent third party). ONM practically gave away their selling point (the review itself) for free by letting the world know that Super Mario Galaxy 2 is "a Miyamoto masterpiece" in the press release. At that point, unless I want to collect SMG artwork which can be obtained on the Internet anyway, why should I buy the magazine anyway? ONM should've at least tried to hide their excitement and tease the magazine buyer about the SMG2 review on their cover(s).
  
Personally, if the cover of the magazine tells me how a product will be reviewed, whether positively or negatively, then it's pointless for me to buy it. I'll be like "Hey, it looks like this game is awesome; instead of using this money to buy the magazine, I'll use it to buy SMG2 right now." (Or something like that.) But hey then again, the typical ONM buyer is probably gonna buy the magazine anyway. From an outsider's (non-ONM buyer's) perspective though, it just seems strange.

Posted by owl_of_minerva
@oldschool:  Yes, because lowest common denominator journalism consists of criticising the practices of others pre-judging games as 'masterpieces' thanks to advertising dollars and the worst kind of pandering to one's audience, something Jeff has had a little experience combatting in the past. Being positive about a game when you have zero integrity is valueleless, without criticism this shitty industry will never change. You're right, I don't think this has anything to do with Nintendo, it has to do with the general standards of the industry, which are abysmally low - this is an excellent example of it. I have yet to see anything that extreme in my time with magazines, 'official' or not. 
If game reviews are to reach the same level as literature and film, then nonsense like this has simply cannot be tolerated. As for those of us who have moved beyond childish opinions about console preferences, it doesn't matter what console this is aligned with, the magazine is despicable, and they're doing Nintendo fans a disservice as well.
Posted by oldschool
@owl_of_minerva said:
" @oldschool:  Yes, because lowest common denominator journalism consists of criticising the practices of others pre-judging games as 'masterpieces' thanks to advertising dollars and the worst kind of pandering to one's audience, something Jeff has had a little experience combatting in the past. Being positive about a game when you have zero integrity is valueleless, without criticism this shitty industry will never change. You're right, I don't think this has anything to do with Nintendo, it has to do with the general standards of the industry, which are abysmally low - this is an excellent example of it. I have yet to see anything that extreme in my time with magazines, 'official' or not.  If game reviews are to reach the same level as literature and film, then nonsense like this has simply cannot be tolerated. As for those of us who have moved beyond childish opinions about console preferences, it doesn't matter what console this is aligned with, the magazine is despicable, and they're doing Nintendo fans a disservice as well. "
Don't think for a second that I am supporting or defending ONMs article or press release.  It is just a non-story.  That is what makes this article so pathetic.  There  is no excuse for what Jeff wrote (badly).  People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.   It screams "look at me" and that is just sad and sets a new low for Jeff.  That is the entire premise of anything I have said.  Otherwise, I agree with you, but a little less stridently, as these magazines have a place, even if you or I don't reside there and it creeps a little to close to elitism when we go after them.
Posted by owl_of_minerva
@oldschool:  Why is he in a glass house, as his site is not licensed and afaik has no allegiance to any gaming company as opposed to OHM? It would be a fairer criticism if he was still at Gamespot, but he's not. I think if more people were called out like this they might be shamed into putting out better journalism. Articles like these need to become more widespread not less, so at least criticism could be mounted without endless petty snark and ad hominem attacks. Unfortunately, it's the emotional fragility of fans and sensitivity to any perceived criticism that leads to virtually no criticism and a persistently low standard.
I can see where you're coming from though, as they tend to ignore the marketing excesses of for ex. Halo, with its incredibly overblown legendary collector's packs, etc., which is unfair. They could be more damning of the HD consoles and their failings.
Posted by Linkyshinks
@owl_of_minerva said:
" @oldschool:  Why is he in a glass house, as his site is not licensed and afaik has no allegiance to any gaming company as opposed to OHM? It would be a fairer criticism if he was still at Gamespot, but he's not. I think if more people were called out like this they might be shamed into putting out better journalism. Articles like these need to become more widespread not less, so at least criticism could be mounted without endless petty snark and ad hominem attacks. Unfortunately, it's the emotional fragility of fans and sensitivity to any perceived criticism that leads to virtually no criticism and a persistently low standard. I can see where you're coming from though, as they tend to ignore the marketing excesses of for ex. Halo, with its incredibly overblown legendary collector's packs, etc., which is unfair. They could be more damning of the HD consoles and their failings. "
 
Haha, videogame journalism would be in a truly dire state if everyone was a dick.
Posted by oldschool
@owl_of_minerva said:
" @oldschool:  Why is he in a glass house, as his site is not licensed and afaik has no allegiance to any gaming company as opposed to OHM? It would be a fairer criticism if he was still at Gamespot, but he's not. I think if more people were called out like this they might be shamed into putting out better journalism. Articles like these need to become more widespread not less, so at least criticism could be mounted without endless petty snark and ad hominem attacks. Unfortunately, it's the emotional fragility of fans and sensitivity to any perceived criticism that leads to virtually no criticism and a persistently low standard. I can see where you're coming from though, as they tend to ignore the marketing excesses of for ex. Halo, with its incredibly overblown legendary collector's packs, etc., which is unfair. They could be more damning of the HD consoles and their failings. "
He is a glass house simply because when you dare to criticise others, you sure as hell better be free of sin, or expect criticism and wear it.  Also, we need to keep in mind that this was a press release.  All press releases are self serving, be it from politicians, to companies to games.  Attacking a press release is like attacking a baby in a pram, sure it's easy, but it isn't wise.  Someone in Jeff's position should know better and more importantly, act better.  I think anyone should be able to see that most criticisms in this thread are based purely on the nature of the churlishness of Jeff and the game is irrelevant, as is Nintendo.  I can see no fanboy stuff here and those who say otherwise are being self serving. 
 
It is the nature of Jeff butt-licking that is the worst part of this thread, in fact, the site.  Jeff fanboys are really bizarre and right up there with Trekkers and metal fans I have had the misfortune of meeting.  The fact that Jeff plays to his fanboys is a terrible indictment on his part.  He needs to be more thoughtful about his position, but if he likes to divide and play to it, then he should be seen as an internet oddity, like all the other oddities.
Posted by Halberdierv2

im actually surprised why everyone is blowing their top over this article...if it hrts ou, ignore it and move on.

Posted by RandomInternetUser

You people be treatin' the internet like it's muh'fuckin' rap beef!