Log in or sign up to comment
268 Comments
Posted by DevWil

I know this isn't the perfect venue and I'm probably speaking to the wrong audience, but I'd like to do something good.  How good this thing is and if it's even significant at all is a subjective thing, or is it?  That's kind of the subject I want to bring up. 
 
Meat.  The Giant Bomb staff is composed of those who may, from time to time, talk about how they enjoy eating meat.  The Giant Bomb community seems to largely like to eat meat as well. 
 
This isn't a silly rant about how I feel alienated by the Giant Bomb staff or excluded from the Giant Bomb community and how I think that in itself is outrageous.  I laughed at Vinny's joke on an old Bombcast about a 29-year-old lifelong vegetarian who was going to try meat for the first time on his birthday.  One staff member suggested that the person may not be strong enough to lift a fork to their mouth (from not eating meat) and Vinny countered along the lines of, "Well his neck would be so long from reaching leaves..." 
 
That's funny.  At its core, it's offensive (something Ryan himself acknowledged during the discussion), but it's clever and didn't seem to be said in a way that indicated that Vinny really hated vegetarians or anything. 
 
However, let's get to the issue itself: 
 
Isn't eating meat just...kind of a dick move? 
 
Humans are (apparently) supremely intelligent.  We can create awesome works of film, music, video games, etc.  However, we're still animals.  Any biology textbook will tell you that.  Other animals have emotions and can sense pain just like we do.  The double standard of people in the West cringing at the thought of eating a dog and salivating at the idea of eating a cow is ridiculous.  Sure, cows may be way dumber than dogs.  I don't know.  I'm not a zoopsychologist or whatever the correct term is for studying animal intelligence, but why not just leave them be? 
 
We as a species spend enough time ruining each others' lives; why rope more species into it?   
 
My worldview is heavily influenced by Buddhism (and I self-identify as a Buddhist) and it shouldn't come as a surprise given the focus of this post.  While I don't hold a eulogy if I accidentally hit and kill a moth as I'm driving, I don't want to consent to the killing of another living being.  If these creatures didn't want to be alive, they'd stop eating and lie down and die.  They have a will to live and--while people in the West certainly have a history of being fine with imposing their will on others--it's just a dick move to kill them for food. 
 
I started dating a vegetarian in Fall 2007.  I'm still with her.  After about 8-9 months of being with her, I figured "maybe I'll give vegetarianism a go" after no pressuring from her.  Once I ate a hot dog, mini-BBQ-rib-thing, and hamburger in front of her in a single sitting without her suggesting that I was morally inferior.  I never expected vegetarianism to stick (at least, not on the first try), but it did and I've been a vegetarian for two years. 
 
It is so easy to cut meat out of your diet.  I'm not the healthiest person in the world (far from it as I--surprise, surprise--have a very sedentary lifestyle), but I am absolutely no less healthy than I would've been eating meat.  You don't need to take 8 pills a day to replace nutrients found in meat.  Want a view into my super-crazy, hippy-dippy vegetarian diet? 
 
A very ordinary day: 
-Breakfast: Cereal. 
-Lunch: Bagel. 
-Dinner: Pizza. 
 
It really sucks just eating iceberg lettuce and plain celery all day, guys. 
 
Now, obviously this is subjective: but my favorite pizza toppings have never been meat.  Green peppers and mushrooms have been my 1 and 2 even since I would eat a hamburger without any guilt.  YES, YOU CAN EAT NORMAL PEOPLE FOOD WHEN YOU ARE A VEGETARIAN.  Guess what I had this afternoon?  Ice cream.  I'm not an alien.  I'll be the first one to admit that eating out gets a little trickier (Chinese and Indian food become much more commonplace--but who cares, Indian is delicious) and I understand peoples' suspicions about faux-meat products.  Trust me, though.  Fake chicken patties taste a lot like chicken patties.  And nobody had to die!  Not every meat has an acceptable vegetarian substitute, but the options are a lot better than most people assume.  Raw tofu is kind of gross, but so are so many other foods when they're not prepared well. 
 
I decided today that I'm going to start promoting vegetarianism when I'm out with friends and family rather than just be the guy who gets stupid questions like "so you eat Turkey burgers instead?" and "wait, can you eat eggs?! those are baby chickens!!!!" and answers them politely and sheepishly.  And then I wrote this blog.  
 
Eating meat and not eating meat are directly comparable and there is really no coherent argument that I've heard for eating meat being the superior position.      I understand that some people are simply not interested in the welfare of animals or the process behind what they eat and this blog won't change those peoples' minds.  That can be such a deep-rooted value that I have no delusions of getting someone who simply doesn't care to stop eating meat.  However...if you're a little more compassionate/sympathetic and actually think about the consequences and morality of your actions...consider if you want to keep doing the dickish thing and kill animals just so you can have a trivially different diet.

* As this blog is pretty stream-of-consciousness-y, I can guarantee I'll wish I wrote things differently later.  I'm definitely not going to shy away from discussion, but if it's nit-picking about the blog rather than arguments for/against a position that fuels the commentary, I'll probably just ignore what you have to say (or try to). *

Edited by W0lfbl1tzers

I think killing plants is a little douchey. 

Posted by Ryax

eat all the meat you want? who gives a fuck? 

Posted by warxsnake

eat cardboard and enjoy life

Posted by Supermarius

The problem with this sort promotion is really twofold. Firstly you appear to be claiming that your diet and its associated worldview is superior to omnivores.  Well, trying to convert people to your side by immediately telling them that the way they eat and think is inferior is a non-starter. It makes people want to disagree with you just to be anti-elitism.  Further i think alot of people are put off by vegetarians who act like they are categorically better people than those who eat meat. This is in large part because to many people who eat meat it seems like vegetarians primarily define themselves by the food they eat. Eating seems like a strange thing to make the center of one's identity and so it scares people off. It makes vegetarians seem like extremists who have an almost fetishistic relationship with the things they eat. Personally i enjoy eating meat. It is tasty. I do however agree that we should try not to eat any animal that is self-aware. I worry that pigs are too smart to eat. But for now i am still eating them.

Edited by HS21
@DevWil said:

" Guess what I had this afternoon?  Ice cream.  I'm not an alien.  "  

 
I read the whole post  and totally get where you're coming from, and I'm not being a dick but, that line just instantly reminded me of the "Gingers do have souls" video.
Posted by buzz_clik

But I enjoy chasing down a gazelle and sinking my teeth into its still-quivering flesh.
 
I wouldn't say that being a meat eater makes me some sort of elite being in comparison to herbivores; I eat meat because it tastes good. Outside of being contrary for amusement's sake, I'd never seriously push a meat agenda* on somebody. And for the record, I'd be fine with eating dog. I've eaten horse, kangaroo and camel, and I don't think that being told that Rover is on my fork would slow me down.
 
*Meat Agenda's new album Carniwhore is now out on Alternative Tentacles on CD and MP3.

Moderator
Posted by BiffMcBlumpkin
@DevWil said:
"I know this isn't the perfect venue and I'm probably speaking to the wrong audience, but I'd like to do something good.  How good this thing is and if it's even significant at all is a subjective thing, or is it?  That's kind of the subject I want to bring up. 
 
Meat.  The Giant Bomb staff is composed of those who may, from time to time, talk about how they enjoy eating meat.  The Giant Bomb community seems to largely like to eat meat as well. 
 
This isn't a silly rant about how I feel alienated by the Giant Bomb staff or excluded from the Giant Bomb community and how I think that in itself is outrageous.  I laughed at Vinny's joke on an old Bombcast about a 29-year-old lifelong vegetarian who was going to try meat for the first time on his birthday.  One staff member suggested that the person may not be strong enough to lift a fork to their mouth (from not eating meat) and Vinny countered along the lines of, "Well his neck would be so long from reaching leaves..." 
 
That's funny.  At its core, it's offensive (something Ryan himself acknowledged during the discussion), but it's clever and didn't seem to be said in a way that indicated that Vinny really hated vegetarians or anything. 
 
However, let's get to the issue itself: 
 
Isn't eating meat just...kind of a dick move? 
 
Humans are (apparently) supremely intelligent.  We can create awesome works of film, music, video games, etc.  However, we're still animals.  Any biology textbook will tell you that.  Other animals have emotions and can sense pain just like we do.  The double standard of people in the West cringing at the thought of eating a dog and salivating at the idea of eating a cow is ridiculous.  Sure, cows may be way dumber than dogs.  I don't know.  I'm not a zoopsychologist or whatever the correct term is for studying animal intelligence, but why not just leave them be? 
 
We as a species spend enough time ruining each others' lives; why rope more species into it?   
 
My worldview is heavily influenced by Buddhism (and I self-identify as a Buddhist) and it shouldn't come as a surprise given the focus of this post.  While I don't hold a eulogy if I accidentally hit and kill a moth as I'm driving, I don't want to consent to the killing of another living being.  If these creatures didn't want to be alive, they'd stop eating and lie down and die.  They have a will to live and--while people in the West certainly have a history of being fine with imposing their will on others--it's just a dick move to kill them for food. 
 
I started dating a vegetarian in Fall 2007.  I'm still with her.  After about 8-9 months of being with her, I figured "maybe I'll give vegetarianism a go" after no pressuring from her.  Once I ate a hot dog, mini-BBQ-rib-thing, and hamburger in front of her in a single sitting without her suggesting that I was morally inferior.  I never expected vegetarianism to stick (at least, not on the first try), but it did and I've been a vegetarian for two years. 
 
It is so easy to cut meat out of your diet.  I'm not the healthiest person in the world (far from it as I--surprise, surprise--have a very sedentary lifestyle), but I am absolutely no less healthy than I would've been eating meat.  You don't need to take 8 pills a day to replace nutrients found in meat.  Want a view into my super-crazy, hippy-dippy vegetarian diet? 
 
A very ordinary day: 
-Breakfast: Cereal. 
-Lunch: Bagel. 
-Dinner: Pizza. 
 
It really sucks just eating iceberg lettuce and plain celery all day, guys. 
 
Now, obviously this is subjective: but my favorite pizza toppings have never been meat.  Green peppers and mushrooms have been my 1 and 2 even since I would eat a hamburger without any guilt.  YES, YOU CAN EAT NORMAL PEOPLE FOOD WHEN YOU ARE A VEGETARIAN.  Guess what I had this afternoon?  Ice cream.  I'm not an alien.  I'll be the first one to admit that eating out gets a little trickier (Chinese and Indian food become much more commonplace--but who cares, Indian is delicious) and I understand peoples' suspicions about faux-meat products.  Trust me, though.  Fake chicken patties taste a lot like chicken patties.  And nobody had to die!  Not every meat has an acceptable vegetarian substitute, but the options are a lot better than most people assume.  Raw tofu is kind of gross, but so are so many other foods when they're not prepared well.  I decided today that I'm going to start promoting vegetarianism when I'm out with friends and family rather than just be the guy who gets stupid questions like "so you eat Turkey burgers instead?" and "wait, can you eat eggs?! those are baby chickens!!!!" and answers them politely and sheepishly.  And then I wrote this blog.   Eating meat and not eating meat are directly comparable and there is really no coherent argument that I've heard for eating meat being the superior position.      I understand that some people are simply not interested in the welfare of animals or the process behind what they eat and this blog won't change those peoples' minds.  That can be such a deep-rooted value that I have no delusions of getting someone who simply doesn't care to stop eating meat.  However...if you're a little more compassionate/sympathetic and actually think about the consequences and morality of your actions...consider if you want to keep doing the dickish thing and kill animals just so you can have a trivially different diet.* As this blog is pretty stream-of-consciousness-y, I can guarantee I'll wish I wrote things differently later.  I'm definitely not going to shy away from discussion, but if it's nit-picking about the blog rather than arguments for/against a position that fuels the commentary, I'll probably just ignore what you have to say (or try to). * "

Wow, sounds like someone has a carrot stuck in his vagina.
Posted by JoelTGM
@W0lfbl1tzers said:
" I think killing plants is a little douchey.  "
This.  Why not let plants be?  They are living, just as cows and dogs are living.  This has already been discussed to death before.  The outcome is that people won't stop eating delicious meat no matter how much you try to guilt them, and even if they did stop, they'd just be killing plants.  You gotta kill stuff.
Posted by Virago

As a vegetarian, it is my personal opinion that people should not give a fuck what anyone else eats, unless you're the one getting eaten. Or babies, that's just disappointing and unhygenic. Otherwise, people should just get over it, and not preach or tease or flaunt. The end. 

Edited by DevWil
@Supermarius said:

 Firstly you appear to be claiming that your diet and its associated worldview is superior to omnivores.    

   i am.  if i didn't think so, i wouldn't adhere to it. 

 Well, trying to convert people to your side by immediately telling them that the way they eat and think is inferior is a non-starter. It makes people want to disagree with you just to be anti-elitism.    

   this is true of so many arguments.   yes, my tone may not be as productive as another, but this is a blog and not a thesis. 

 Further i think alot of people are put off by vegetarians who act like they are categorically better people than those who eat meat. This is in large part because to many people who eat meat it seems like vegetarians primarily define themselves by the food they eat.     Eating seems like a strange thing to make the center of one's identity and so it scares people off. It makes vegetarians seem like extremists who have an almost fetishistic relationship with the things they eat.    

yeah, maybe.  i don't think i came off that way.  i talked about one issue of many that i could and might like to.  vegetarianism isn't extreme.  i totally  ate pizza on friday.  despite marketing campaigns that may try to convince you otherwise: there's nothing extreme about pizza.  also, i am not someone who equates animal life to human life and i never have been.  i don't have a compulsion to be around animals and pet them and nurture them.  but i think killing them so your meal is a little more enjoyable is shitty.

   Personally i enjoy eating meat. It is tasty. I do however agree that we should try not to eat any animal that is self-aware. I worry that pigs are too smart to eat. But for now i am still eating them. "  

 
people might be tasty.  we don't eat them.   if an alien race of superior intellect/technology came to earth and decided we were food, would you be okay with it?  deciding who is dumb enough to eat is a silly notion.
 
"it is tasty" is not an argument in relation to the morality of eating meat.  like i said, if you don't think morality comes into play to any extent...i will probably never change your mind, but you also aren't actually interested in the discussion if that's your stance.
Edited by Supermarius
@DevWil:  well you are right im not really interested in going vegetarian but what im saying is that if you want to reach people rather than just state your beliefs then you might waht to rephrase things.
 
telling people they are immoral wont work to well because it makes you seem judgey and elitist. I would probably concentrate on the potential negative of eating meat like higher rates of heart disease and obesity.
Posted by Ryax
@Virago said:
" As a vegetarian, it is my personal opinion that people should not give a fuck what anyone else eats, unless you're the one getting eaten. Or babies, that's just disappointing and unhygenic. Otherwise, people should just get over it, and not preach or tease or flaunt. The end.  "
seriously. i dont see why people who eat meat think less of me for being a vegetarian. i dont think less of them for eating meat.
Posted by Atomic_Tangerine
@W0lfbl1tzers said:
"I think killing plants is a little douchey.  "

It's the truth man.  For me to eat, something has to die.  If thinking a stalk of corn and turkey are about equal when it comes to me killing them makes me a dick, then I'm a dick. 
 
Then of course, there is the issue of eating a dog, which is itself a carnivoire.  I mean, they don't think of themselves as dicks, do they?  That's just how the world works.
Posted by odintal

I'd go entirely carnivore if I could.   

Edited by Atomasist

 I don't care if you don't eat meat, but don't compare dogs and cows. They are two very different animals, and in the West dogs are seen as mans best friend. And are you going to eat a friend that can guard your house, herd cattle, or whatever, hell no. So do not say the West pulls a double standard when we eat cows and not dogs.

Edited by DevWil

technically, if you only eat fruit and don't ruin the balance of a plant's reproductive abilities, nothing has to die for you to eat. 
 
yes, you have to kill something to eat MOST things.  plants are alive, but they are not conscious and they do not feel pain.  it's a weak argument and i used it on my girlfriend early in our relationship.  we are animals.  we are not plants.  heady. 
 
if you think it's a stupid discussion, don't fuel it. 
 
if you're a vegetarian and don't place a value judgement on eating meat, i don't think your motives for being a vegetarian are especially thoughtful.  promoting an agenda isn't reprehensible in itself.  it's not a trivial matter of I THINK BAD COMPANY TWO IS BETTER THAN MODERN WARFARE TWO AND YOU NEED TO AGREE WITH ME FOR THE WORLD TO BE A BETTER PLACE. 
 
and dogs are carnivores and aren't responsible for not being vegetarians because they aren't capable of the kind of thinking and morality that we are. also there's the obvious fact that, biologically, they are much better off eating meat.  i don't think it's impossible for a dog to survive on a vegetarian diet, though.  i've heard otherwise, but i'm not going to push that as fact.

Posted by JJWeatherman

It's not that I don't care about animals, I just eat whatever I think tastes good. Although I really don't like burgers and very rarely eat them. I eat chicken a lot though. 
 
I just don't like the idea of going out of my way to not eat one particular food group. Seems dumb. But if you love animals, I guess it makes sense. But I love animals. Now I'm just confused.

Posted by addictedtopinescent
@BiffMcBlumpkin:  Best fucking reply ever
Posted by evanbrau

Smug, preaching vegetarians are the reason so many people don't like vegetarians. I like to eat meat, you don't like me eating meat but you're not going to change me so why even try?

Posted by Atomic_Tangerine
@Atomasist said:
" I don't care if you don't eat meat, but don't compare dogs and cows. They are two very different animals, and in the West dogs are seen as mans best friend. And are you going to eat a friend that can guard your house, herd cattle, or whatever, hell no. So do not say the West pulls a double standard when we eat cows and not dogs. "

But that is the mindset that is the double standard... You can't think it is okay to eat cows and pigs and dolphins in your tuna, but when it comes to dogs you throw a fit.  Just because dogs have been bred to be obedient doesn't mean killing them is any worse.  I'm not saying you should eat your pet or something, but some people have pet pigs too.
Edited by Joeybagad0nutz

Honestly, Humans have been killing off animals for food since cavemen times. And I've honestly taken up more of a vegetarian diet as of lately, because I've been wanting to get in shape, but the way I see it: We are Omnivores. We have the capability of surviving on both vegetables and meat by themselves. But, it's all a matter of opinion and depending on how that person feels. So, I eat both. I love animals, but I see it as natural to eat animals so it doesn't sad me that much (But seeing a dog be eaten does sadden me quite a bit, but that's because of how I was rise), like I've been cutting off Fish heads since I was 6 because my dad is an excellent fisherman.
Posted by DevWil
@JJWeatherman said:
" It's not that I don't care about animals, I just eat whatever I think tastes good. Although I really don't like burgers and very rarely eat them. I eat chicken a lot though.  I just don't like the idea of going out of my way to not eat one particular food group. Seems dumb. But if you love animals, I guess it makes sense. But I love animals. Now I'm just confused. "  
it's not difficult to avoid meat.  if i could get one thing into people's heads, it'd be that. 
@evanbrau
said:
" Smug, preaching vegetarians are the reason so many people don't like vegetarians. I like to eat meat, you don't like me eating meat but you're not going to change me so why even try? "
because maybe ONE person will stumble across this, think "i never really considered it", and stop eating meat.  one less person responsible for animal killing.  hooray.  and, for the record, i think PETA is ridiculous and turns more people away from vegetarianism than they attract to it.
Posted by nail1080

You're not the one killing the animal whether you eat the god damn chesseburger or not, the animal is already dead! Idiot.

Posted by DevWil
@nail1080 said:
" You're not the one killing the animal whether you eat the god damn chesseburger or not, the animal is already dead! Idiot. "
i hope you're kidding.  if i don't pay for meat, i don't support the meat industry.  i'm therefore not responsible for meat.  it's like anything else you choose not to support.
Posted by JJWeatherman
@nail1080 said:
" You're not the one killing the animal whether you eat the god damn chesseburger or not, the animal is already dead! Idiot. "
If people don't eat burgers, companys would stop killings cows. It's a valid point. 
 
@DevWil said:
" @JJWeatherman said:
" It's not that I don't care about animals, I just eat whatever I think tastes good. Although I really don't like burgers and very rarely eat them. I eat chicken a lot though.  I just don't like the idea of going out of my way to not eat one particular food group. Seems dumb. But if you love animals, I guess it makes sense. But I love animals. Now I'm just confused. "  
it's not difficult to avoid meat.  if i could get one thing into people's heads, it'd be that. 

I'm not saying it's difficult, I'm saying I don't want to be that guy that has to make people go out of their way to not serve me meat. I have relatives like that... they annoy me sometimes. It's not like I go out looking for meat 24/7 or anything. If it comes my way, I eat it, mostly because it tastes pretty good.
Posted by Ryax
@evanbrau said:
" Smug, preaching vegetarians are the reason so many people don't like vegetarians. I like to eat meat, you don't like me eating meat but you're not going to change me so why even try? "
depends on the vegetarians. for me, meats always made me sick. so i dont eat it. but im not gonna tell you to stop eating meat. i couldnt care less who does what. its people like the OP that give us bad names
Posted by Turambar

I can at least respect your views a bit more than, say, PETA, since you don't make the conflicting arguments that humans are intelligent enough to not behave like an animal while at the same time saying humans are just another species of animals.  But your motivation of not needing to feel responsible for the deaths of animals is not something that holds us back, which seems to be your presumption.  We don't eat meat out of duress, feeling we have to while regretting the killing of animals.  We simply don't really care that animals die for us to live.  It's not that we don't think about it ever, but rather we take it as a perfectly normal and acceptable cycle of the world.
 
Personally, I am very comfortable with the cost of my daily life.

Posted by evanbrau
@Ryax: Yup, I've know several absolutely lovely vegetarians who never try to push their agenda or convert people. The people evangelising about it has probably caused vegetarians far more trouble than anything else.
Posted by nail1080
@JJWeatherman said:
" @nail1080 said:
" You're not the one killing the animal whether you eat the god damn chesseburger or not, the animal is already dead! Idiot. "
If people don't eat burgers, companys would stop killings cows. It's a valid point. 
 

I'm referring to the OP. 1 person not eating burgers makes no difference. The cow has already been sliced and diced.
Posted by W0lfbl1tzers

Why is killing a plant so much different than killing a animal?

Posted by Ryax
@evanbrau said:
" @Ryax: Yup, I've know several absolutely lovely vegetarians who never try to push their agenda or convert people. The people evangelising about it has probably caused vegetarians far more trouble than anything else. "
the ones that dont care what anyone else does are the ones you want to know
Posted by JJWeatherman
@nail1080 said:
" @JJWeatherman said:
" @nail1080 said:
" You're not the one killing the animal whether you eat the god damn chesseburger or not, the animal is already dead! Idiot. "
If people don't eat burgers, companys would stop killings cows. It's a valid point. 
 

I'm referring to the OP. 1 person not eating burgers makes no difference. The cow has already been sliced and diced. "
Hey, all revolutions have to start with one person. 
Posted by pwnasaurus
@DevWil: 
i'll eat a burger for you man.
Posted by DevWil
@JJWeatherman said: 
@DevWil said:
" @JJWeatherman said:
" It's not that I don't care about animals, I just eat whatever I think tastes good. Although I really don't like burgers and very rarely eat them. I eat chicken a lot though.  I just don't like the idea of going out of my way to not eat one particular food group. Seems dumb. But if you love animals, I guess it makes sense. But I love animals. Now I'm just confused. "  
it's not difficult to avoid meat.  if i could get one thing into people's heads, it'd be that. 

I'm not saying it's difficult, I'm saying I don't want to be that guy that has to make people go out of their way to not serve me meat. I have relatives like that... they annoy me sometimes. It's not like I go out looking for meat 24/7 or anything. If it comes my way, I eat it, mostly because it tastes pretty good. "  
i don't see what's so inconvenient about saying "i don't eat meat, sorry" and eating any number of other things that are--in all likelihood--available.  i don't starve at family holiday dinners despite the fact that i'm the only vegetarian.  it's no more of an imposition than if you were diabetic or had some other dietary restriction.  
 
i don't know what your living situation is like, but most adults are capable of dictating their diet nearly completely.  i don't understand why you think you're being "that guy" by not eating meat unless you're embarrassed about being a wussy vegetarian like Georges Laraque.
 
@Ryax
said:
" @evanbrau said:
" Smug, preaching vegetarians are the reason so many people don't like vegetarians. I like to eat meat, you don't like me eating meat but you're not going to change me so why even try? "
depends on the vegetarians. for me, meats always made me sick. so i dont eat it. but im not gonna tell you to stop eating meat. i couldnt care less who does what. its people like the OP that give us bad names "  
as i've said, PETA is bad at what they try to do and i understand why meat-eaters are like "vegetarianism? that's, like, PETA right? ew".  i don't think i'm nearly as extreme.  i don't think it's reprehensible to promote an idea if you think it would result in a better world.  but i already said that. 
 
@Turambar
said:
" I can at least respect your views a bit more than, say, PETA, since you don't make the conflicting arguments that humans are intelligent enough to not behave like an animal while at the same time saying humans are just another species of animals.  But your motivation of not needing to feel responsible for the deaths of animals is not something that holds us back, which seems to be your presumption.  We don't eat meat out of duress, feeling we have to while regretting the killing of animals.  We simply don't really care that animals die for us to live.  It's not that we don't think about it ever, but rather we take it as a perfectly normal and acceptable cycle of the world.  Personally, I am very comfortable with the cost of my daily life. "
the point is that we should treat animals as ends in themselves and not resources.  we have the intelligence to consider it and the instinct to empathize with them to some degree.
Posted by HS21
@JJWeatherman said:
" @nail1080 said:
" @JJWeatherman said:
" @nail1080 said:
" You're not the one killing the animal whether you eat the god damn chesseburger or not, the animal is already dead! Idiot. "
If people don't eat burgers, companys would stop killings cows. It's a valid point. 
 

I'm referring to the OP. 1 person not eating burgers makes no difference. The cow has already been sliced and diced. "
Hey, all revolutions have to start with one person.  "
Mine has to start with three. At least.
Posted by sddi

I don't understand those claiming that the OP is being preachy or snobbish. It's people like the OP that give vegetarians bad names? He hasn't been extreme in his views, and he didn't say that those who didn't listen to him would burn in hell. He calmly presented an argument for people to discuss. Should issues that concern humanity never be brought up? He's not banging on your door, forcing you to listen to him. You chose to read it, you chose to respond to it. If you want society to stagnate, then sure, let's all cover our eyes and ears and never listen to what someone else has to say. If you don't agree with him, then fine, but don't claim that he went on some unapproachable diatribe when that clearly is not the case.

Posted by W0lfbl1tzers
@sddi: I just want to know why killing a animal is so much different than a plant?
Posted by JJWeatherman
@DevWil: Wait, are we talking real vegetarian? I'm assuming your a "lacto-vegetarian" at least since you eat cheese on your pizza. (At least I hope you eat cheese on your pizza)  :P
Posted by DevWil
@nail1080 said:
" @JJWeatherman said:
" @nail1080 said:
" You're not the one killing the animal whether you eat the god damn chesseburger or not, the animal is already dead! Idiot. "
If people don't eat burgers, companys would stop killings cows. It's a valid point. 
 

I'm referring to the OP. 1 person not eating burgers makes no difference. The cow has already been sliced and diced. "
one person not eating burgers makes one consumers' worth of difference.  by not eating meat, i'm not responsible for the demand of meat which causes the killing and butchering of the animal. 
 
if you buy a copy of modern warfare 2, you're not solely responsible for the game's enormous success, but it's not meaningless.  i do not own a copy of modern warfare 2, so i am in no way responsible for any money that game makes (unless you find some really weird thing i did to inadvertently promote the game in a totally crazy way). 
 
these aren't insane ideas.

Posted by HS21
@DevWil said:
" @nail1080 said:
" @JJWeatherman said:
" @nail1080 said:
" You're not the one killing the animal whether you eat the god damn chesseburger or not, the animal is already dead! Idiot. "
If people don't eat burgers, companys would stop killings cows. It's a valid point. 
 

I'm referring to the OP. 1 person not eating burgers makes no difference. The cow has already been sliced and diced. "
one person not eating burgers makes one consumers' worth of difference.  by not eating meat, i'm not responsible for the demand of meat which causes the killing and butchering of the animal. 
 
if you buy a copy of modern warfare 2, you're not solely responsible for the game's enormous success, but it's not meaningless.  i do not own a copy of modern warfare 2, so i am in no way responsible for any money that game makes (unless you find some really weird thing i did to inadvertently promote the game in a totally crazy way). 
 
these aren't insane ideas.

"
You just sold me on a copy of MW2.
Posted by DevWil
@sddi said:
" I don't understand those claiming that the OP is being preachy or snobbish. It's people like the OP that give vegetarians bad names? He hasn't been extreme in his views, and he didn't say that those who didn't listen to him would burn in hell. He calmly presented an argument for people to discuss. Should issues that concern humanity never be brought up? He's not banging on your door, forcing you to listen to him. You chose to read it, you chose to respond to it. If you want society to stagnate, then sure, let's all cover our eyes and ears and never listen to what someone else has to say. If you don't agree with him, then fine, but don't claim that he went on some unapproachable diatribe when that clearly is not the case. "  
thank you.  i didn't want to say that myself for obvious reasons.
 
@W0lfbl1tzers
said:
" @sddi: I just want to know why killing a animal is so much different than a plant? "  
by your logic, we can approximate that killing a 2-year-old human child is no different than accidentally stepping  on an ant to end its life.

Posted by supermike6
@W0lfbl1tzers said:
" @sddi: I just want to know why killing a animal is so much different than a plant? "
Plants don't have brains.
Posted by supermike6
@W0lfbl1tzers said:
" @sddi: I just want to know why killing a animal is so much different than a plant? "
Plants don't have brains. They can't move, and they can't think.  
Posted by W0lfbl1tzers
@DevWil: Are you comparing a dog to a two year old child?
Posted by ninjakiller

Don't try to spread your disease in these forums.  DAs now prosecute people for knowingly spreading HIV, and if I had my way I'd prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law for pushing this foolishness.  

Posted by sddi
@W0lfbl1tzers: I sometimes have trouble answering that question, because I just don't understand how there can not  be a perceivable difference to some people. Obviously, animals (for the most part) have emotions, thoughts, and the ability to feel pain. They have a central nervous system. They have a will to live. Plants, on the other hand, are alive, yes, but they are not conscious.   Animals are much closer to humans than they are to plants.
 
Even if one is to argue that if killing animals is bad, then killing plants is bad as well, isn't it better to at least choose the lesser of two evils? It's impossible to live a human life without killing anything at all, but I think it's worth the effort to make that number as small as possible. 
Posted by JJWeatherman
@DevWil:  
  
Wait, you didn't answer this question!:
@JJWeatherman
said:
" @DevWil: Wait, are we talking real vegetarian? I'm assuming your a "lacto-vegetarian" at least since you eat cheese on your pizza. (At least I hope you eat cheese on your pizza)  :P "
I need to know what were really talking about here!
Posted by trophyhunter

I fucking hate hippies and indie fags and hipsters

Posted by LaszloKovacs

You lost me at the part where you declare yourself to be morally superior.
 
Honestly I sort of want to go to Five Guys now just to spite you.