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Posted by afrofools
@Virago said:
" As a vegetarian, it is my personal opinion that people should not give a fuck what anyone else eats, unless you're the one getting eaten. Or babies, that's just disappointing and unhygenic. Otherwise, people should just get over it, and not preach or tease or flaunt. The end.  "
What this person said, it is wise and I agree. 
 
@OP :: I wonder if you really are a vegetarian or you have just made an elaborate story to get an interesting discussion. 
 
Eating something that you care about is wrong, or giving it away so it can be eaten is wrong. Eating an animal that you have never met (when it was alive) is not wrong, I'm not saying it is right but it isn't wrong. I remember how disappoint I was when a family friend sold his two pet cows off to get picked up by the meat-factory people (whoever it is that  loads them onto a truck then takes them to the abattoir). This family friend had a bondage with both those cows like someone and their pet dog/cat, and selling them off to be eaten was just sick. 
 
Eating meat is not being a dick, F# Vagina is being a dick :)
Posted by The_A_Drain

"  Isn't eating meat just...kind of a dick move? " 
 
Stopped reading here. 
 
Tired argument is tired, meat is good. 

Posted by Tebbit
@BiffMcBlumpkin: Jesus christ! What a dick
Posted by owl_of_minerva
@DevWil:  Sir, you've made a cogent argument, and for that you have my respect. Also for trying to make it here. It's a pity that on a games forum it means nothing thanks to the cavalcade of ignorant trolls.
It's something I think about a lot personally. I tried going vegetarian for a while and started to become unwell for whatever reason, but I would like to try again.
Posted by Lowbrow

Instead of enlightened, you come off as a self righteous dick. 
 
I make it a habit never to take the advise of self righteous dicks out of fear that said dickery might rub off on me.
 
Have fun at dinner.

Edited by PenguinDust

The question I have is if we all go vegetarian now, what happens to all the domesticated cows, pigs and chickens out there?  I'm pretty sure they can't survive on their own and if we just let them out of their pens, they'll destroy the ecosystems of wild animals, so how is that better then?  Do we tell all the farmers and ranchers to take care of your livestock until they die their natural deaths even though you aren't making any money off them, oh and spade & neuter them so they can't continue to reproduce?  I'm sure you can find some other work until your bean sprouts grow.
 
I think being a vegetarian is fine if you want to do that.  I do find it funny that you chose the lifestyle because you were dating one.  I know that I started smoking because my girlfriend at the time was a smoker.  People make odd changes in their life habits due to love.  Spread the word if you are so inclined, but don't expect a warm reception here.  After all this is the site that heralded the KFC Double Down.

Edited by swamplord666

I don't have anything against vegetarians because what they eat is their choice. I only start to frown and get annoyed when vegetarians influence where I eat, look at my food with disgust, tell me about why they don't eat meat, etc.
I live with a vegetarian and she does her own food and the rest of us get to eat meat without her cringing or getting all wound up. 
As many people have said the problem lies with some vegetarians attitude. Not what they do.
EDIT: I'd like to add that I Always feel more revitalized after a good hearty meat than a vegetarian meal.

Posted by DCFGS3

Omnivorous animals eat meat, we're omnivorous animals, er-fucking-go, we should eat meat. Why is it different for a human to kill a cow and eat it to a lion killing a cow and eating it? Please explain how that is different. 

 What's more, eating meat, specifically cooked meat (and possibly especially cooked meat dipped in bbq sauce with a sprinkle or garlic), was pretty much vital to our evolution into higher animals. 
 
Now if you were wondering why exactly you got a hail of abuse over this post, it's because, you, like many, many other vegetarians are offensive to other people.
If you had started this thread with "I'm a vegetarian because of health reasons..." or "I don't like the taste of meat..." then you would be fine, but you specifically insulted and questioned the morality of the VAST majority of people based on their eating habits. You essentially said that because we eat meat, we are less moral than you (which is, obviously, bs).

Posted by Metroid545

aw man we are all such dicks for eating meat, how could we be so selfish killing animals so we can you know LIVE how about we just eat a whole ton of plants and processed stuff and make our lives more shitty, hey at least the animals will be happy right? Oh wait they aren't smart at all and can't tell the difference  
 
you keep eating plants, all the more meat for me

Posted by Tennmuerti

 Dick move bro :(
Posted by Ryax
@Derecto said:
" @Ryax said:
" eat all the meat you want? who gives a fuck?  "
'cus ppl like you is why this society is just fucked up... "
dude, im a vegetarian. but who am i to judge some one for eating meat?
Posted by swamplord666
@Ryax said:
" @Derecto said:
" @Ryax said:
" eat all the meat you want? who gives a fuck?  "
'cus ppl like you is why this society is just fucked up... "
dude, im a vegetarian. but who am i to judge some one for eating meat? "
Man you messed up the world with your fucked up thinking! GTFO!
In all seriousness this has gone so wayward... Humankind is classified as omnivore. we eat both meat and vegetables/fruit to stay healthy. Because of progress in sciences people can choose to solely eat vegetables and still be healthy. that's great! But to try and say that generations of humans are wrong because they ate/eat meat is just bizarre... but on top of that, thinking that your choice to not eat meat makes you morally superior to others who do is just nonsense (talking about the OP, not you Ryax... you be cool vegetarian ;) ). my 2 cents :)
Posted by Godlovesugly

I'm vegan and I couldn't give a fuuuu-uuuck what people eat.
Never preached in my whole live, don't care if people think I'm weird (being vegan is the least weird thing about me), I keep myself to myself and people should do the same because no one cares about what you think. They're too busy styling their hair or racing go-karts to give a shit.

Posted by JokerSmilez

Every argument or discussion I've ever had with a vegetarian is essentially the same as a conversation with an overtly religious person who's trying to convert me. They want me to accept their lifestyle, but they won't accept mine. Their argument boils down to "I'm better than you, so you should be more like me."
 
If I agreed with you, I'd already be doing it. Arguing about vegetarianism, religion, politics, homosexuality, etc. is pointless 99% of time. You're not going to change anyone's mind, you just want to feel gratified with your own position by trying to force your believes and values on others which, guess what, is kind of a dick move. So, stop it.

Posted by FlappyHands
@evanbrau said:
" Smug, preaching vegetarians are the reason so many people don't like vegetarians. I like to eat meat, you don't like me eating meat but you're not going to change me so why even try? "
Agreed. I have friends who are vegetarian and I totally respect them, but If they were to get all preachy with me I'd tell them to step off.
Posted by Organicalistic_
@JokerSmilez said:
" Every argument or discussion I've ever had with a vegetarian is essentially the same as a conversation with an overtly religious person who's trying to convert me. They want me to accept their lifestyle, but they won't accept mine. Their argument boils down to "I'm better than you, so you should be more like me."  If I agreed with you, I'd already be doing it. Arguing about vegetarianism, religion, politics, homosexuality, etc. is pointless 99% of time. You're not going to change anyone's mind, you just want to feel gratified with your own position by trying to force your believes and values on others which, guess what, is kind of a dick move. So, stop it. "
LMAO
Posted by JasonDaPsycho

It's the way of life.
Producers and consumers of food.

And yes, humans are hypocritical. That's what make us humans. We all have double standards even though some of us try not to have them.
I've watched a show about travel and eating. You know those typical shit. There's this one guy who went to Japan, ordered a bunch of food to show the audience, including one dish of dolphin meat. And then right in front of the camera, he decides AGAINST eating it, you know for the same lame reason.
A dolphin died for a bad cause because someone wants to eat its meat. And this one died for nothing at all, which is even worse.
We shouldn't kill dolphins for whatever reasons because they're pretty scarce in amount and may go extinct and that ain't good for the environmental balance, not because it's "inhumane to do so".
It's like how you don't order too much food in a restaurant so there will be no leftovers. It's not like people in the third world will have more food because we have only taken enough instead of more than enough. The restaurants won't send them the food.
It's an action of no special cause, although I don't do that anyways, because again, I'm a hypocrite.
That's how hypocritical us humans are. And to those from the west, some of us (the Chinese) eat dog meat. Nothing special. I don't eat them though because like many others, I'm a hypocrite and find doing so kinda weird. 
I'm not trying to bring up a point of vegetarian or not here, but more of how hypocritical we are.
Call me heartless or whatever, but that's how I see it.

You keep telling us how easy it is to drop meat, but on the other hand, can you just  pick up meat and eat it? They're two different issues, but equally difficult to pick up or drop.
Just because you're used to doing something doesn't mean it's easy to others.
I don't smoke, but I don't go on to my friend who smokes about how easy it is to just flat out not smoke. I know it is not.
Same thing for going vegetarian or not.

Posted by fancifulunicorn

I don't know if this has been gone over, but I used to live in a farm community and I haven't seen anyone mention how many fluffly lil animals get ground up and killed in the harvesting of fruits/vegetables.  Being a vegetarian is at least not "guilt free" I guess.

Posted by NubMonk

This thread made me super hungry.

Posted by omghisam

As a decade long vegan, I believe  talking about what you do or don't eat is incredibly uninteresting to those around you. If I'm out with friends it never comes up. 
 
Also, you don't win friends with salad.

Posted by Jeffery

Couldn't help myself.
Edited by DevWil
@afrofools said:

" @Virago said:

" As a vegetarian, it is my personal opinion that people should not give a fuck what anyone else eats, unless you're the one getting eaten. Or babies, that's just disappointing and unhygenic. Otherwise, people should just get over it, and not preach or tease or flaunt. The end.  "
What this person said, it is wise and I agree.  @OP :: I wonder if you really are a vegetarian or you have just made an elaborate story to get an interesting discussion.  Eating something that you care about is wrong, or giving it away so it can be eaten is wrong. Eating an animal that you have never met (when it was alive) is not wrong, I'm not saying it is right but it isn't wrong. I remember how disappoint I was when a family friend sold his two pet cows off to get picked up by the meat-factory people (whoever it is that  loads them onto a truck then takes them to the abattoir). This family friend had a bondage with both those cows like someone and their pet dog/cat, and selling them off to be eaten was just sick.  Eating meat is not being a dick, F# Vagina is being a dick :) "
i'm really a vegetarian and i don't see why promoting vegetarianism is even close to promoting christianity or gun control or anything so subjectively valued like that.  people don't become vegetarians in a vacuum and i know of at least two GB users who i've made consider the issue more seriously.  mission accomplished. 
 
your argument about eating an animal you love vs. eating an animal you've never met is so egotistical.  let's extrapolate that like i did earlier: killing an 8-year-old girl who you just met is more acceptable than killing your 8-year-old niece.  that's basically what you're saying.  i don't think i'm being unfair.
Posted by DevWil
@PenguinDust said:

" The question I have is if we all go vegetarian now, what happens to all the domesticated cows, pigs and chickens out there?  I'm pretty sure they can't survive on their own and if we just let them out of their pens, they'll destroy the ecosystems of wild animals, so how is that better then?  Do we tell all the farmers and ranchers to take care of your livestock until they die their natural deaths even though you aren't making any money off them, oh and spade & neuter them so they can't continue to reproduce?  I'm sure you can find some other work until your bean sprouts grow.  I think being a vegetarian is fine if you want to do that.  I do find it funny that you chose the lifestyle because you were dating one.  I know that I started smoking because my girlfriend at the time was a smoker.  People make odd changes in their life habits due to love.  Spread the word if you are so inclined, but don't expect a warm reception here.  After all this is the site that heralded the KFC Double Down. "

i never expected a warm reception and i said as much in the initial blog.  i hoped people would be a little more respectful than they have been, but i didn't expect a chorus of people agreeing with me immediately. 
 
we're not all going to become vegetarian overnight. and, honestly?  if everyone going vegetarian drastically changed the world's animal populations, that's 100% fine with me.  it'd be the result of a human choice, but not a human imposition.  it'd be the earth going about its business naturally. 
 
what if everyone stopped breaking the law all at once?  what would happen to all the people working in law enforcement?
 
that doesn't mean you should break the law.   i don't have delusions of a totally vegetarian human populace, but i'd like for people who are concerned with animals' welfare to any degree to stop eating meat.

@DCFGS3 said:

" Omnivorous animals eat meat, we're omnivorous animals, er-fucking-go, we should eat meat. Why is it different for a human to kill a cow and eat it to a lion killing a cow and eating it? Please explain how that is different. 

 What's more, eating meat, specifically cooked meat (and possibly especially cooked meat dipped in bbq sauce with a sprinkle or garlic), was pretty much vital to our evolution into higher animals. 
 
Now if you were wondering why exactly you got a hail of abuse over this post, it's because, you, like many, many other vegetarians are offensive to other people. If you had started this thread with "I'm a vegetarian because of health reasons..." or "I don't like the taste of meat..." then you would be fine, but you specifically insulted and questioned the morality of the VAST majority of people based on their eating habits. You essentially said that because we eat meat, we are less moral than you (which is, obviously, bs). "

we don't have to be omnivores.  humans can function very well without meat.  vegetarians tend to be healthier than meat-eaters.  it doesn't necessarily follow, but if your argument is purely biological, you lose.
 
if i was a vegetarian for non-moral reasons, i wouldn't have made this blog post because i wouldn't have had a message i wanted to get across.  yes i'm being confrontational and, yes, that's the point.
 
as i've said over and over: 
 
if you think eating meat is a non-issue, fine.  that's a firmly-rooted value, but i wholeheartedly disagree. 
however, if you recognize that eating meat has some moral weight to it, it is indefensible to continue eating meat.  it being indefensible doesn't mean you're automatically worthless, it just means that you need to be comfortable with the illogic of it. 
 
@Ryax said:

" @Derecto said:

" @Ryax said:
" eat all the meat you want? who gives a fuck?  "
'cus ppl like you is why this society is just fucked up... "
dude, im a vegetarian. but who am i to judge some one for eating meat? "
i find it ridiculously unlikely that you're actually a vegetarian and you're not just f'ing with me. 
 
if you're a vegetarian and morality even slightly enters the reason for it, you necessarily place a value judgement on eating meat.  there's something to be said for a live-and-let-live attitude, but some things are perfectly fine to promote to others. 
 
i'm not throwing red paint on people's expensive fur coats.  i'm writing on the internet.  i don't think that's that much of an imposition. 
 
@Godlovesugly
said:

" I'm vegan and I couldn't give a fuuuu-uuuck what people eat. Never preached in my whole live, don't care if people think I'm weird (being vegan is the least weird thing about me), I keep myself to myself and people should do the same because no one cares about what you think. They're too busy styling their hair or racing go-karts to give a shit. "

i'm sorry you're not interested in making a difference in the world.  i guess you're too busy playing video games to give a shit. 
 
@fancifulunicorn
said:

" I don't know if this has been gone over, but I used to live in a farm community and I haven't seen anyone mention how many fluffly lil animals get ground up and killed in the harvesting of fruits/vegetables.  Being a vegetarian is at least not "guilt free" I guess. "

killing two thousand insects isn't worse than killing one hundred pigs.  especially when it's not deliberate.  i don't feel morally responsible if i accidentally step on and kill an animal (or hit a moth/fly while driving), but i heavily disapprove of people killing insects for no good reason. 
 
@JasonDaPsycho
said:

"And yes, humans are hypocritical. That's what make us humans.   


 
doesn't make it okay.  contradictions are interesting and, yes, human, but we can (and probably should) avoid them in the choices we make.
 

 You keep telling us how easy it is to drop meat, but on the other hand, can you just  pick up meat and eat it? They're two different issues, but equally difficult to pick up or drop. Just because you're used to doing something doesn't mean it's easy to others. I don't smoke, but I don't go on to my friend who smokes about how easy it is to just flat out not smoke. I know it is not. Same thing for going vegetarian or not. "

most things that most people eat either don't have or don't need meat.  pizza, pasta, sandwiches, and a lot of other things are--as i said--normal people food and don't require the killing of animals to produce them. 
 
@JokerSmilez: @swamplord666: @Meltbrain:  
 
a lot of people mentioned something about the following.  so listen up: 
 
i'm not out to change people's values.  sure, i'd like to, but i've banged my head against enough issues in the past to know that it's unproductive most of the time.  if you think that eating meat is morally irrelevant, i'm not expecting to change your mind.  my best friend eats meat and cooks meat for others on a daily basis.  i look past it because he isn't a hypocrite.  he would eat dog just as readily as he would eat beef.  however, his girlfriend (who my confrontation with yesterday provoked me to write this blog) has a cat who she loves and finds the idea of eating a dog repulsive.  she's the person i'm talking to when promoting vegetarianism, because her values obviously accommodate a compassion for animals. 
 
i don't think it's fair to compare what i'm saying to when someone tries to push their religious or political views onto someone else.  would i prefer if more people were social democrats and buddhists?  of course i would.  but those two belief systems incorporate so many deeply-rooted values that it's simply unproductive to promote either most of the time. 
 
i live in western pennsylvania, where a lot of people hunt and eat meat.  i'm not going to be able to get most of the people around me to put down their gun and pick up a veggie burger.  i'm not trying to.  i know that a lot of people aren't concerned with the issue and, while i can't say i respect that point of view, i understand it to some extent.  i do wish those people would leave their unproductive comments out of this thread, though.
Posted by Kazona
@Virago said:

" As a vegetarian, it is my personal opinion that people should not give a fuck what anyone else eats, unless you're the one getting eaten. Or babies, that's just disappointing and unhygenic. Otherwise, people should just get over it, and not preach or tease or flaunt. The end.  "

I agree. I honestly can't stand people who try to make others look like they're bad, or inferior, for doing something that they don't.  
 
Seriously, dude, I understand your view on this matter, and I totally respect the life style that you have chosen, but you shouldn't try to push it onto others, especially not by means of guilt. If you're doing the same thing with your friends as you are doing on this blog right now, then be prepared to lose some of them, if not a lot. 
 
Also, I'd like to point out one fatal flaw in your blog that completely contradicts your whole reasoning as to why everyone should be a vegetarian:  
 
"Humans are (apparently) supremely intelligent.  We can create awesome works of film, music, video games, etc.  However, we're still animals. "   
 
That very last part of that sentence. You stated the biggest reason as to why there is nothing wrong with eating meat. Namely that we are animals. And believe it or not, a lot of animals eat other animals. Ever seen a predator take down a zebra, only to start eating it even though it's not completely dead yet? If you watch Animal Planet enough, you will definitely see things like that, and I am pretty damn certain that the large majority of people that eat meat, don't do that. 
 
As long as we are still considered to be animals, and animals continue to eat meat, I will refuse to feel guilty about doing something that is in my nature as an animal.
Posted by JustinBieber

I love meat! Especially when you squish it with a fork and all its juices spill out!

Posted by sddi
@Kazona: Yeah, it's so natural to selectively breed millions of animals so they are huge and pump them full of chemicals and raise them in tiny enclosed spaces and then slaughter them in a factory.  
 
If you're out in the wilderness attacking a deer with your bare hands and teeth like some kind of cheetah, then fine. You can compare what you're doing to that of a predator in the wild. Otherwise, it's just too different.  
 
Cheetahs and other predators NEED meat to survive. It is in their nature to hunt. There is nothing in human nature that requires us to factory farm animals. We are lucky enough to have the choice not to kill others. 
Posted by illmatic19
@JustinBieber said:
" I love meat! Especially when you squish it with a fork and all its juices spill out! "
Who needs a fork, just squeeze it with your hand.
Posted by teh_destroyer

Better to kill to eat then kill just for the hell of it.

Edited by Godlovesugly
@DevWil: I've done my part. It's up to other people to do theirs.
If you really believe what you preach I'm surprised you're not vegan because you still cause suffering and death to animals. I wouldn't get too cocky about being a vegetarian (you're still part of the problem as far as I'm concerned) I don't plead ignorance, I know being a vegan is no way to stop the death and suffering to animals because those little fellas get chopped up in threshing machines and croppers that pick MY vegetables and grains and whatever.
 
Also what's a video game? Where can I learn more about them?
Posted by habster3

MEAT!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Ryax
@DevWil: so because i dont care what others eat im not a vegetarian? you are a fucking idiot.
Posted by Godlovesugly
@omghisam said:
" As a decade long vegan, I believe  talking about what you do or don't eat is incredibly uninteresting to those around you. If I'm out with friends it never comes up.  Also, you don't win friends with salad. "
THIS all over!
Posted by fwylo

So, we shouldn't kill other animals.  Why is that other animals kill other animals.  
 
If I was trapped on an island with a Vicious Tiger, I would eat it before it ate me, simple as that.

Posted by SSValis

I have been a vegetarian for most of my life, I rarely bring it up in a conversation, if anybody has a problem with what I eat or don't eat then they can go and fuck themselves...

Posted by OllyOxenFree
@Ryax said:
" @DevWil: so because i dont care what others eat im not a vegetarian? you are a fucking idiot. "
Yeah I agree with Ryax, he is a moron for saying that.
Edited by DevWil

I'm a fucking idiot! 
 
I'm a moron! 
 
what's the point of attributing a moral weight to something if you don't care if other people do it?  again, getting people who don't care about animals to stop eating them is a fool's errand.  however, there are people who love animals and also like to eat them, which i think is largely a matter of compartmentalization or just not being critical enough.  i think that they need to be confronted because, as i've said, people don't become vegetarians in a vacuum.  if you as a vegetarian didn't prefer that more people were vegetarian, i guess you don't care about the world you live in.  whatever.  
 
also, i didn't say you weren't a vegetarian.  i said i doubted it because of how hard you flamed earlier.
 
and because people can't/don't/won't read, i'll reiterate that we are animals and should be able to empathize with other animals (especially mammals) based on that.  we are also smarter than them and (mostly) believe in morality, so we should be able to do things so simple as not eat meat if there's a moral weight to that decision. 
 
if it wasn't easy to cut meat out of your diet, i wouldn't have been able to do it first try.  i don't think i'm exceptional in that regard. 
  
*edit*
for the thousandth time: i'm not trying to get EVERYONE to change their diet.  that's unrealistically ambitious.  i just wanted to point out how it's indisputably morally worse to eat meat than to not and it's not hard to cut meat out of your diet.  the people who don't think it's morally worse don't think it's a moral issue at all.  10 pages into the thread and i haven't heard a single argument that meat-eating is morally superior to vegetarianism. 
 
there's nothing wrong with encouraging people to examine themselves more critically based on their existing values.  i'm not asking people to suddenly care about animal rights.  i'm asking people to look at dogs and pigs in less extremely different ways. 
 
i wrote this on giant bomb because it's the venue i have the best chance of getting a substantial audience at.  i know most people on this site totally dig meat.  i said as much early in my original post.  i never expected anything but a minority of users of this site to read my blog and go "hmm....i guess maybe i should stop eating meat after all"

Posted by Godlovesugly

/thread
Edited by Hitchenson

Fuck 'em. Lions eat gazzele, pelicans eat fish, bears eat salmon, the blackbirds near my house eat worms, so why the fuck can't I have a delicious steak? Don't worry, I'll have a side salad as well though. 
 
Also, cool canine teeth, bro. Don't mind me, I'm just using them as intended. 

Posted by MonetaryDread

My opinion on the whole subject:
 
To steal a quote from Maynard J. Keenan, "Life feeds on life." I see bears feeding on salmon all the time, I've seen a fox chewing on a live rabbits feet while the rabbit was struggling to get away. This is the nature of things, and it goes all the way down to cells in the human body feeding off of other cells to stay alive. No matter where you go, you will see a living creature feeding off of another. For example, you say that you ate a pizza with green peppers on top for dinner. That green pepper was born, grew up, then reproduced all while breathing, feeding, and excreting. This is by its very definition a living creature. Now, other than a set of eyeballs to make it look relatable, what is different between eating that green pepper or a piece of chicken?
I can understand some of the reasons why someone will become a vegetarian. Hell, I certainly don't eat meat every day. I just see things in perspective. For example, I live in an area where almost everyone is a rancher. I have been to slaughter houses, farms, and even worked in the meat department of a Safeway. There is a confidence in me when I state that if anyone has gone vegetarian to help save animals, well guess what? You are such a minority that you going vegetarian hasn't saved a single animal ever. Your portion is killed every day, and every day that you don't eat meat an animals rotten carcass gets thrown in the garbage.
Now maybe it the first nations in me that is speaking out, but I personally believe that all life is a cycle. Alive or dead we contribute to this planet and its ever evolving eco-system, and if we take the life of another animal to feed then that animal should be respected and honored. I am thankful for every cow/ bison/ pig/ tomato/ sugar granule etc... that I consume to sustain myself. I also have the belief that just simply boycotting meat entirely is a douche-bag move that helps nothing. As I said before, you haven't saved a single animal by turning vegetarian; and if you want to do something that actually matters you should be helping to increase the quality of their life/death.

Posted by afrofools
@DevWil said:
" @afrofools said:

" @Virago said:

" As a vegetarian, it is my personal opinion that people should not give a fuck what anyone else eats, unless you're the one getting eaten. Or babies, that's just disappointing and unhygenic. Otherwise, people should just get over it, and not preach or tease or flaunt. The end.  "
What this person said, it is wise and I agree.  @OP :: I wonder if you really are a vegetarian or you have just made an elaborate story to get an interesting discussion.  Eating something that you care about is wrong, or giving it away so it can be eaten is wrong. Eating an animal that you have never met (when it was alive) is not wrong, I'm not saying it is right but it isn't wrong. I remember how disappoint I was when a family friend sold his two pet cows off to get picked up by the meat-factory people (whoever it is that  loads them onto a truck then takes them to the abattoir). This family friend had a bondage with both those cows like someone and their pet dog/cat, and selling them off to be eaten was just sick.  Eating meat is not being a dick, F# Vagina is being a dick :) "
i'm really a vegetarian and i don't see why promoting vegetarianism is even close to promoting christianity or gun control or anything so subjectively valued like that.  people don't become vegetarians in a vacuum and i know of at least two GB users who i've made consider the issue more seriously.  mission accomplished. 
 
your argument about eating an animal you love vs. eating an animal you've never met is so egotistical.  let's extrapolate that like i did earlier: killing an 8-year-old girl who you just met is more acceptable than killing your 8-year-old niece.  that's basically what you're saying.  i don't think i'm being unfair. "
If you met me you would know that I am not egotistical. Extrapolate all you want, you will just be taking the argument out of context, I was talking about animals that people eat not cannibalism. Birds are usually prey for cats, yet sometimes they become friends, how's that  for an extrapolation. Yes we could easily switch to vegetarianism if we wanted to, it is an individuals choice and you should not be such a jerk about it (you are being a jerk). There is nothing wrong with promoting Vegetarianism, but you should not have to disrespect people who eat meat. 
 
& if you are so smart, then how come you are attacking hippies by saying what they stand for is crap?, when their sub-culture (culture within a culture) made caring for animals and the planet much more wide-spread. 
 
What worries me the most is you are probably one of those whiners that promote your cause and put down everyone else's and go driving around in fuel-inefficient vehicles, drop rubbish on the ground, smoke in public spaces or around family, and climb the ladder in whatever business you work for via the ass-hole route of disrespect and disloyalty. You hold yourself so high for being a vegetarian (don't say it's not like that because - come on - let's be reasonable), when you as far as we know could be a huge burden on our planet. And how is that relevant to your argument of being a vegetarian, it's not entirely, I am just pointing out that many of us meat-eaters on this forum are likely to be more humane than you. Hopefully you actually can do something relevant to support your cause other than be a troll on your own forum topic, and flame-bait others by generalisations (which are never useful to express - keep it to yourself and company). 
 
Also, I hope you respect your family and friends enough not to bother them all the time with you being a vegetarian, because you could very-well be as obnoxious as the Christians and gun-lovers that you mentioned earlier.
Posted by starrjack1
@DevWil:  
The way meat is processed in our society is messed up and wrong.  But you are wrong, eating meat is not a dick a move.  It comes naturally to us, it is delicious, they are not intelligent beings.  People do eat too much meat and the ways we produce it are for the most part, abusive, but cutting it out entirely will never solve anything.  It's the same response you could have to alcohol, remember how well prohibition worked?  People want it and they will continue to get it, but we need to do it better.  Where I live it is not hard to free range grass fed beef, and this needs to continue to be the case elsewhere, but it will take time.  
 
Education and how you educate is key.  If you tell a meat lover "the way you get your meat is terrible and inhumane! So stop"  They are going to rightfully tell you to fuck off.  If you tell a meat lover "Mass meat farming is terrible for the animals, terrible for the environment as a whole, and terrible for you!  Instead of 5 shitty burgers a week, go get one awesome burger that won't kill you!"   
 
Like your blog, this is stream of consciousness, so I am jumping around a bit, but I read some comments and fuck dude, intelligent aliens and humans are separate from animals.  I would kill every single animal of a species if it cured one fatal human disease. 
 
I am trying to figure out your value system, and really it just seems centered on anything living should not be killed if it is not entirely, 100 percent necessary for survival.  Read that sentence, cause it looks great, it is an awesome argument for vegetarianism.  But you know what?  I love Gal-Bi ribs, I love Prosciutto, I love catching Dungeness crab off the Oregon coast with my dad.  Humans are self-aware, we don't just strive to survive we strive to learn, understand and enjoy.  I will try and not have a willfully negative impact on the world with my actions but I am not going punish myself for doing something I enjoy.
Edited by DevWil
@MonetaryDread said:

" I also have the belief that just simply boycotting meat entirely is a douche-bag move that helps nothing. As I said before, you haven't saved a single animal by turning vegetarian; and if you want to do something that actually matters you should be helping to increase the quality of their life/death. "

it's not about making a difference in that regard.  it's about not being responsible for animal killing.  it's not a douche-bag move.  i'm not looking to single-handedly take down the meat industry.  i'm looking to not be responsible for their existence. 
 
by eating meat substitutes, i'm supporting people who choose not to kill animals for their product.  i think that certainly makes a difference. 
 
@afrofools said:

" @DevWil said:

" @afrofools said:

" @Virago said:

" As a vegetarian, it is my personal opinion that people should not give a fuck what anyone else eats, unless you're the one getting eaten. Or babies, that's just disappointing and unhygenic. Otherwise, people should just get over it, and not preach or tease or flaunt. The end.  "
What this person said, it is wise and I agree.  @OP :: I wonder if you really are a vegetarian or you have just made an elaborate story to get an interesting discussion.  Eating something that you care about is wrong, or giving it away so it can be eaten is wrong. Eating an animal that you have never met (when it was alive) is not wrong, I'm not saying it is right but it isn't wrong. I remember how disappoint I was when a family friend sold his two pet cows off to get picked up by the meat-factory people (whoever it is that  loads them onto a truck then takes them to the abattoir). This family friend had a bondage with both those cows like someone and their pet dog/cat, and selling them off to be eaten was just sick.  Eating meat is not being a dick, F# Vagina is being a dick :) "
i'm really a vegetarian and i don't see why promoting vegetarianism is even close to promoting christianity or gun control or anything so subjectively valued like that.  people don't become vegetarians in a vacuum and i know of at least two GB users who i've made consider the issue more seriously.  mission accomplished. 
 
your argument about eating an animal you love vs. eating an animal you've never met is so egotistical.  let's extrapolate that like i did earlier: killing an 8-year-old girl who you just met is more acceptable than killing your 8-year-old niece.  that's basically what you're saying.  i don't think i'm being unfair. "
If you met me you would know that I am not egotistical. Extrapolate all you want, you will just be taking the argument out of context, I was talking about animals that people eat not cannibalism. Birds are usually prey for cats, yet sometimes they become friends, how's that  for an extrapolation. Yes we could easily switch to vegetarianism if we wanted to, it is an individuals choice and you should not be such a jerk about it (you are being a jerk). There is nothing wrong with promoting Vegetarianism, but you should not have to disrespect people who eat meat.  & if you are so smart, then how come you are attacking hippies by saying what they stand for is crap?, when their sub-culture (culture within a culture) made caring for animals and the planet much more wide-spread.  What worries me the most is you are probably one of those whiners that promote your cause and put down everyone else's and go driving around in fuel-inefficient vehicles, drop rubbish on the ground, smoke in public spaces or around family, and climb the ladder in whatever business you work for via the ass-hole route of disrespect and disloyalty. You hold yourself so high for being a vegetarian (don't say it's not like that because - come on - let's be reasonable), when you as far as we know could be a huge burden on our planet. And how is that relevant to your argument of being a vegetarian, it's not entirely, I am just pointing out that many of us meat-eaters on this forum are likely to be more humane than you. Hopefully you actually can do something relevant to support your cause other than be a troll on your own forum topic, and flame-bait others by generalisations (which are never useful to express - keep it to yourself and company).  Also, I hope you respect your family and friends enough not to bother them all the time with you being a vegetarian, because you could very-well be as obnoxious as the Christians and gun-lovers that you mentioned earlier. "
 1. i wasn't talking about cannibalism.  i was talking about killing.  meat is entirely different if no animal has to die for it.  unfortunately, that isn't the case. 
 2. the title of this blog was to turn heads and was facetious.  that should be obvious. 
 3. i don't quite understand your assertion that i was disrespectful to meat eaters.  i do understand if meat eaters were upset.  it must be frustrating having no argument for your perspective.  i don't think i've ever crossed the line into calling meat eaters bad people.  i've simply illustrated that, if one ascribes moral weight to eating meat, then eating meat is indefensible. 
 4. you're being absurdly presumptuous.  i never said i was a better person than all meat eaters;  i said that eating meat is morally indefensible and not difficult to stop.  i don't litter and i don't smoke.  i'm a university student majoring in media study and philosophy.  i don't own a car.  keep swinging, champ.
 
@starrjack1 said:

" @DevWil:  The way meat is processed in our society is messed up and wrong.  But you are wrong, eating meat is not a dick a move.  It comes naturally to us, it is delicious, they are not intelligent beings.  People do eat too much meat and the ways we produce it are for the most part, abusive, but cutting it out entirely will never solve anything.  It's the same response you could have to alcohol, remember how well prohibition worked?  People want it and they will continue to get it, but we need to do it better.  Where I live it is not hard to free range grass fed beef, and this needs to continue to be the case elsewhere, but it will take time.   Education and how you educate is key.  If you tell a meat lover "the way you get your meat is terrible and inhumane! So stop"  They are going to rightfully tell you to fuck off.  If you tell a meat lover "Mass meat farming is terrible for the animals, terrible for the environment as a whole, and terrible for you!  Instead of 5 shitty burgers a week, go get one awesome burger that won't kill you!"    Like your blog, this is stream of consciousness, so I am jumping around a bit, but I read some comments and fuck dude, intelligent aliens and humans are separate from animals.  I would kill every single animal of a species if it cured one fatal human disease.  I am trying to figure out your value system, and really it just seems centered on anything living should not be killed if it is not entirely, 100 percent necessary for survival.  Read that sentence, cause it looks great, it is an awesome argument for vegetarianism.  But you know what?  I love Gal-Bi ribs, I love Prosciutto, I love catching Dungeness crab off the Oregon coast with my dad.  Humans are self-aware, we don't just strive to survive we strive to learn, understand and enjoy.  I will try and not have a willfully negative impact on the world with my actions but I am not going punish myself for doing something I enjoy. "

you're selfish and incorrect.  i enjoyed bbq ribs and other meat dishes.  a lot.  but you know what?  pigs would prefer not to die and it's really selfish to say that my meal is more important than any sentient being's life, when there are more than enough non-meat alternatives.
 
this has nothing to do with prohibition and your comparison is really ill-considered.  i'm not out to outlaw meat.  i want people who care about animals to stop eating them.  then maybe i can move on to getting people who don't care about animals to care about them.
Posted by JJWeatherman
@DevWil said:
" ...i'm not out to outlaw meat.  i want people who care about animals to stop eating them.  then maybe i can move on to getting people who don't care about animals to care about them. "
This probably should have been part of your first post. You could have avoided a lot of annoying posts. 
 
But man, how are you still responding to these people? I'm getting tired just reading this.  :P
Posted by DevWil
@JJWeatherman said:
" @DevWil said:
" ...i'm not out to outlaw meat.  i want people who care about animals to stop eating them.  then maybe i can move on to getting people who don't care about animals to care about them. "
This probably should have been part of your first post. You could have avoided a lot of annoying posts.  But man, how are you still responding to these people? I'm getting tired just reading this.  :P "
it's important to me and i've never been one to let someone get the last word if i think they're way off.
Posted by Jimbo

Vinny doesn't hate vegetarians.  He seems to get on fine with Brad at least.

Posted by Alphonzo

I wouldn't have too much trouble eliminating meat from my diet, but I really like beef.

Posted by afrofools
@DevWil: Okay asshole I have been thinking about this topic some more and I am going to reduce the amount of meat I eat so you have made an positive impact on the world, just know that a single person is not as effective as many people and the message should be spread. Also, I have never liked eating chickens because a) certain farms force hormones into them to make them bigger, and b) you get shit-all meat for killing them, oh and c) certain farms keep them in cages the same size as them. Another thing, I have great distaste for the killing of young animals for food (they need to have some life before they are executed), and the mass-reproduction of cows and deforestation that occurs for cow farms (livestock sanctuaries) for companies like McDonalds and Burgerking (i hate them). 
 
Also, the arguments of animals not being intelligent/ are intelligent are quite abstract since intelligence is not vital to an animal's ability to enjoy/experience life. 
 
Despite calling you an asshole (It is satisfying to say that)  I have more respect for you since I found out that you are not at the moment and in the foreseeable future a burden on the planet (don't have a car, vegetarian, don't smoke blah blah blah). There is one thing I want to bring to your attention though, make sure you don't buy products made from sunflower oil since they are a huge cause of deforestation and loss of wild-animal life, and there is quite a lot of products that use it (If I am aware something contains it I most likely won't buy it). 
 
Thank you for the debate, please start some controversy/'heated discussion' in the future.
Posted by baconbits33

Who cares?

Posted by Akrid

Cereal, bagel, pizza, ice cream. These things are not meant for you. All these foods have eggs or milk in them. Milk comes from cows. Said cows are on a farm. On this farm, the cows are artificially inseminated and, after however long a cows gestation period happens to be, gives birth to a calf. This calf is soon taken away to be bred as another dairy cow or used for veal. The calf is replaced with a machine. 
It's fairly similar when it comes to chickens as well.  To an intelligent being, this would be considered torture. I don't really see a distinction between torture or death.
 
I am not a vegan, I love meat. As for me, I can live with it. But it annoys me greatly when vegetarians think they're saving the animals.  Also, do you really want to take away roughly half of the worlds food supply when we're so close to finishing off world hunger? If everyone became a vegetarian over night, we would soon starve. It is unsustainable, if only because we are heavily set in our ways.  By the way, I'm in no ways a humanitarian, just playing the part of one for sake of argument. Sorry if this has already been said, I'm not reading 8 pages of this shit.

Posted by sddi
@Akrid: If it's not worth reading eight pages so you're well-informed on what has already been discussed, then why is it worth replying at all? Especially since many of your points have already been argued and counter argued?