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Posted by AgentJ
@Diabloshadow said:
" @AgentJ: I don't know where these threads you were commenting were, but I'm talking from being on the one of the main Toronto Supporter's boards. Douchebags are all over, especially in Toronto, we have sadly more than our fair share who get wasted, and toss $10 beers. The streamers, that was something that we used to do in the first season, and it looked pretty cool but we realized how it made us look and stopped it, although others still continue it to this day. The beer throwing at Ljunberg I denounce completely, that shit is not cool, and I know that actually, that fan was given a lifetime ban at BMO (although the one at Drew Carrey I found HILARIOUS, sorry, you can throw razor blades at our Owners or our GM and I won't care, actually I'll supply them!) That is one of the things I envy, good owners.
 
Yeah, we aren't that lucky with stadiums, BMO almost didn't happen. I agree with your points on the selling out the seats, I guess we aren't doing AS well as I originally though but I'm not complaining. Also that comment about people leaving at half time, that is a truth I sadly must agree with, although at TFC games its not that bad, compared to say Jays games. Once again, douchebags that think beating everyone else to their cars is more important than seeing the team win. I can't defend them but I can say they are in the very small minority.
 
About your stadium, I'm glad to hear its made for both, always great to see new soccer specific stadiums being built. 
 
Okay, now here is where I highly disagree with you. Columbus? You are grossly misinformed, there was one drunk tfc fan who got tased and taken down by police but in reality it was just him, and the Columbus cops were terribly, and highly agitated for no fucking reason. Take from someone who was there. And at home? Reports of our violent antics are GREATLY exaggerated. Guy with flare? not a supporter. Guys throwing beers? not supporters. Guys in parking lot fights afterwards? not supporters. The only reports of violence I know of were during the Montreal away game. And even in taht case they started it (a childish answer I know but, the truth still) And don't be telling me that everyone in seattle is perfect, cause I know that isn't true.
 
Overall, I would say in terms of development, Seattle has done more than Toronto in less time. Although in matters of team performance, I am finally happy with how Toronto is doing, being 3rd in the east is great, but I hope to eventually get the attendance above 30K, after that, anything else would be gravy seeing as no one expected this team to make any money at all for a number of years, with no previous fanbase (cough Seattle cough). And while Portland v Seattle may be the first derby, Toronto v Montreal will definitely be the second. Also I get this weird vibe from you of resentment towards Toronto FC and their fanbase, and I certainly wonder where this comes from. Maybe a Toronto fan rubbed you the wrong way but I can assure you we are not all bad people, because NO ONE IS MORE AUTHENTIC THAN TORONTO FC! "
Streamers are fine. As long as it isn't excessive (i've seen guys get covered in streamers in South American games) streamers never hurt anyone. Its the constant bottles and batteries and all that crap. Its unnecessary and doesn't fit in the American market. I have too much respect for what our owners did for us (even with our 35 years of history and fantastic NASL attendance record, Seattle was an afterthought for MLS) to find any humor in anything negative happening to them, and even with how much I hate Portland (and to a lesser extent, Vancouver) i still have a ton of respect for the work their front office has done. They've gone into some of the same name-calling as Toronto, but thats to be expected given the friction between the teams.  
Its just part of the situation where I always constantly feel like I have to defend Seattle's fanbase from the national media. People seem to think we are soft, despite so much evidence to the contrary. Take the NFL Seahawks for example. They've sold out at least the last 8 seasons straight, even with 9 wins combined in the last two years. They set a record for loudest crowd noise ever back in 2005, with 137 decibels. I can't defend the Mariners crowd only to say the management did its darndest to quiet fans down for the last decade (people are now programmed to only make any relevant noise when prompted to on screen). The community fought the theft of the NBA's Supersonics tooth and nail, but got let down by government officials, corporate greed and the league alike. Only a year after the team was taken, an award winning, Sports Illustrated recognized documentary about the fiasco was released. I really recommend you watch it sometime. It will give at least a little insight into the Seattle fan. Had the Sonics incident happened anywhere else it would have been a national incident, but because it was in Seattle no one else cared, and it got buried by the league and the media. For a city that has only had professional sports for 4 decades (compared to 11 for the big east coast markets) and had to fight to keep all our franchises (lost three times; RIP Metropolitans, Pilots, Sonics) and with no championships, I'd say Seattle is incredible.  
Which brings me back to the Sounders. Back in the NASL days we were selling out THE KINGDOME. FOR LEAGUE GAMES. For years, the Sounders were at the top or near the top of league attendance. But the NASL collapsed, and the Sounders were revived in the USL. But when the MLS was looking for markets to debut in back in the early 90s, they went to markets like Dallas and Kansas City and Miami (which admittedly was supposed to be far better than it ended up being) when they had a proven market right here. We always have to try three times as hard to get any recognition. Which is why being on top of the league means so much to us. We have 36,000 a game and tons of people waiting to get in, and when we see our stadium, and our faces finally getting screentime worldwide, making top worldwide soccer organization lists, we feed off that.  
Seattle is Soccer City USA, despite what Portland would have people believe, and don't you forget it.  
Whether the people with the flares and the fighting and whatever were supporters or not doesn't matter. The fact is that these aren't isolated incidents, and if I were management up there, I'd be doing anything I could to curb it. Seattle isn't perfect, but it stays off the pitch for one, and certainly doesn't happen nearly as often. There have been two "incidents" all year. One was a scuffle when San Jose supporters got out of hand, and the other was when a Portland fan was strangled with a Seattle scarf (it might have been the other way around, i can't really remember). There were more fan-based incidents in the game in Toronto THIS YEAR than Seattle fans have been a part of. Oh, and I know that not ALL Toronto fans are douchebags, but apparantly there are quite a few hooligans out there. When they refuse to serve beer at a game, the problem is obvious. 
The hope is that someday every team in the league will be getting 30,000 consistantly, and continued expansion to new grounded markets like Toronto, Seattle, Philly, Vancouver is where it starts. Bringing in better talent is the other half of that equation.  
I think i've explained it well enough. My resentment for the Red is based on the most visible of Toronto's fans, and the actions they have taken. If you want them to play less of a role, You need to find a way to make them value being drunkards less (then they won't be stuck in beer and bathroom lines during halftime) or drown them out with the supporters section. If you haven't seen it, look up the video of the Barcelona Seattle game from last year. After what I think was the second goal, the standard Seattle chant started up and it nearly drowned out the announcers. You get Toronto to do that, and people will forget the assholes. until then, I don't know you're the one to make judgements of Authenticity.   
If the drunkards really aren't part of the supporters groups, than I have less against those in the END than I thought, but if thats the case then the supporters need to make a bigger impact, because as it is now they aren't the face of the franchise that they should be. 
Edited by bartok

Nope. You know what is going to help the MLS?  More Mexicans crossing the border.

Posted by bluezy

It won't see a long-term bump because of the WC. It never has. What will happen is increased attendance next year, even by an average of 1,000, perhaps. That has happened in past post-WC years, in 2003 and 2007. 
 
But what will give MLS a boost more than anything is MLS itself. It's gaining momentum, with 36k in Seattle and 21k in Toronto every week on a consistent basis. The addition of two new clubs next year will also add to the momentum. Most of the US national team players don't currently play in MLS, but most of them did in the past.  
 
Hopefully someone will take notice of that and start watching the league to see the future international stars, but I feel more of the momentum will come from MLS's natural growth rather than quick world stage appeal.