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Posted by Archer88

I finally managed to listen to this weeks Bombcast and during their discussion of Crysis 2 they brought up the issue of quicksaving. Without getting into too much detail, he Giantbomb crew seems to be of the opinion that, while most members of the PC community feel like every game should have quicksaving, it isn't necessary if a game is checkpointed well. The PC community needs to accept that game mechanics change over time. 
Now, I should probably note that I am a PC gamer through and through,but I am going to argue that gamers of EVERY platform should want quicksaving. It seems by their discussion that they're using quicksaving and "save anywhere" interchangeably since the alternative is checkpointed saves.  The ability to save anywhere should always be an option in a game like Crysis 2. Now I haven't played Crysis 2, but I'm basing this on my experiences with the first game. In my opinion, quicksaving extends the life of the game because it promotes experimentation. Lets take a game like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. as an example. I don't know how many times I would come across something, quicksave, and then just fuck around and see what happens. I'm pretty sure the first thing I tried to do in that game after getting a pistol is killing everyone in the Loner base. Why would I ever try this with checkpointing since I can't control when I hit the checkpoint and a lot of the time I can't drop back to 2 or 3 checkpoints ago. Maybe there's an option to go back to the beginning of a chapter, but that isn't the same.  The other argument against only having checkpoint saves is that they are hardly ever done well. I'm sure all of us have experienced some form of a long and boring cutscene followed by an escort mission. Or a lengthy platforming sequence with no checkpoints in the middle. And don't ever get me started on the ending of Psychonauts. I just don't seem how, with these two points in mind, anyone could be in favor of checkpointing over save-anywhere.
Now for a backlog update. I finished Braid thought it was just alright. Spent way too much time playing League of Legends. Mass Effect 2 is almost finished, 1 or 2 more loyalty missions to take care of. Never gonna finish them all. Almost bought a car this week.

Posted by Video_Game_King

Trust me when I say that it is not as good as it sounds. At least with checkpoint saves, you have a clear, safe place to start over when you die. With quicksaves, you can save in such a way to make the game impossible to beat, like I did when I first played The Final Fantasy Legend.

Posted by Archer88
I think what you need to keep in mind is a game can have both. Trust me, I know the horrors of the quicksave. I once quicksaved by accident (meant to quickload) while I was falling from a ladder to certain death. I desperately tried to move in the air back on to the ladder because my last true save was HOURS ago. Quicksaves and checkpoint saves are not mutually exclusive, so developers should feel free to use both. Each has it strengths, I just felt the guys were way to quick to dismiss Quicksaves as something that is out of date and unnecessary in current games.
Posted by aerozol

Quicksaving damages immersion.
All of the examples you give are examples where it's not done well- saving shouldn't be an issue you think about, it should be part of the flow of a game.
If you enjoy hitting f6 every 5 seconds, and then quickloading every time you get shot, because the game is so badly balanced, that's fine. but the best gaming experiences don't have you worrying about saves.
Halo, VVVVV, Resident Evil... There are a lot of ways to utilize saving as a game mechanic. Game companies just need to put in that extra mile.
I will definitely take quick-saving over badly done checkpoints any day though, we are 100% in agreement on that.

Posted by Archer88
@aerozol: I stand by my response to video_game_king that the best option is to have them both. My main reason for loving quicksaves or a save anywhere option is that it allows me to set points that I can return to. Like I said, I like to try new things out and experiment, and sometimes that can be annoying with checkpoints. What I don't want is to use quicksaving as a game mechanic to save my ass. Are there points where I've used it to make a perfect run through a level? Sure! I appreciated it greatly when trying to do a non violent run through Deus Ex the first time. But no save system should be used to make up for poor balancing. I just feel like there have been way more games that have had poor checkpoint systems than there have been games that have used quicksaves/save anywhere to make up for balance issues.
Posted by Anund

My favourite quicksave fuckup was in Max Payne, not sure if it's in one or two, but the final boss is standing on a platform close to the roof of a big room and you have to shoot the chains holding the platform up while he is throwing molotov cocktails down on you. Well, I managed to hit "save" a split second before a molotov hit me square in the face, killing me outright. I must have tried escaping that molotov at least 30 times before accepting fact and starting the mission over, hehe.

Posted by aerozol
@Archer88: Quick-Saves have to be done right too though (;
Just assigning them a hot-key and 'telling' players to use them from minute 1 is different to giving players the option somewhere. It's definitely cool to try shit out, but that can be unlocked or set in the options. A basic run through shouldn't have the players worrying about quick-saving.
But I think we're generally in agreement- Badly done checkpoints etc are terrible, and people should have the chance to mess with games/ be given elements of freedom in them.