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Posted by Mausimo

I'm going to cancel my pre-order. Origin can lick my b***s. Put it on Steam or don't get my money.

Edited by Tennmuerti

The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.

Not good enough.

Posted by Thuki
@Matthew
Well they are just trying to explain that they are not going to seel you information to make money and I belive that all this is not to end up being sued by some asholes. And I don't think most people using steam bother to opt out theese things I don't so why would I care that I can't in origin.  
 
Just a side note do you really need a new computer for diablo 3? it's not even a very good looking game. I doubt you will need a high end computer to max out that game. 
Posted by vidiot

So what say you, Giant Bomb community? Are you satiated by the changes EA has made?

No.
There was this really interesting opinion making the rounds at PAX that we should be comparing Origin to the early days of Steam, how every new digital distribution service has growing pains.
 
I found the Steam comparison incredibly problematic though. There was nothing to compare Steam to at the time, plus unlike Origin: I remember small fractions of actual good news regarding the service when it was first being kicked around. That hasn't happened to Origin...At all. I've been completely turned-off by this thing. I haven't read a single thing that might interest me into actually giving this thing a try. It's infuriating that their flagship title on the PC is stricken with this half-baked idea. Hopefully there will be a way to get rid of it if you want to play Battlefield 3.
Posted by Napalm

I never found the original EULA that intrusive, but EA being demonized as the only company who would gather your information is probably one of the funniest fucking things the Internet has ever done.

Posted by WickedCobra03

I am not even sure why EA thinks they are going to go anywhere with this service where in the past 10 yeqra their service has been a disjointed mess of seperate accounts and services. Imo, this is Origin service is more for their benefit than the actual consumers.

At the moment, EA has really pushed me over the edge in leaning towards buying the Playstation 3 version of Battlefield 3 rather than buying the PC version which I had every intention of before this crap came up... At least they won't be able to push this crappy Origin service as hard on consoles as they have on PC so far!

Posted by GNCD

this doesn't change anything. you still can't decline and play the game.

Posted by XxRANGAxX

if this means that when you buy Battlefield 3 on PC you MUST register it with origin then i think i might just stay with it on xbox, untill there becomes an opt out option for the data collection on origin...

Posted by raikoh05

I still want an opt out option

Posted by Evilmetal
@Chainblast said:

Every single company engages in these sort of practices. Some are just craftier about it than others. If you haven't already put all your information on the Internet, someone else has. If Origin hasn't taken it, I bet your car dealership did. Or your ISP. Or your grocer when you paid credit for those burritos last week. Anytime you fill a form with personal information you can bet your ass they're going to use it. Maybe Steam lets you opt out of such things, but the majority of services you buy and transactions you make do not. Most people just do not care. 

the Overton Window in action, eh?
Posted by BawlZINmotion

Every single company engages in these sort of practices. Some are just craftier about it than others. If you haven't already put all your information on the Internet, someone else has. If Origin hasn't taken it, I bet your car dealership did. Or your ISP. Or your grocer when you paid credit for those burritos last week. Anytime you fill a form with personal information you can bet your ass they're going to use it. Maybe Steam lets you opt out of such things, but the majority of services you buy and transactions you make do not. Most people just do not care. 

Posted by Irvandus
@QKT said:
i still get the feeling they'll watch me watch porn....
That's right and you can't escape it because Origin is everywhere!
Posted by BoneChompski

@Thuki said:

I think all this is very unfortunate. I don't like all the steam fanboys who can't see the issue with steam having almost all the market for digital distrubution. Steam has many problems but is seems like no one cares. I'm hoping origin can be a competitor but only selling EA games might not be a strong enough offer for people I think people just want to have all games available in one service.

I'm not agreed that Steam has many problems. Anyone care to elaborate on these problems?

Posted by H7O

"except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to enforce EA’s legal rights" <== brings it back to where it was, but with prettier language.

Posted by echo13791

I don't care how bad Origin is, nothing will keep me from playing BF3 on my PC. I was the biggest fan of BF2 and have been waiting for this for such a long time!

Posted by Thuki

I think all this is very unfortunate. I don't like all the steam fanboys who can't see the issue with steam having almost all the market for digital distrubution. Steam has many problems but is seems like no one cares. I'm hoping origin can be a competitor but only selling EA games might not be a strong enough offer for people I think people just want to have all games available in one service.

Posted by PenguinDust

I usually assume that most services are data mining me, so I wasn't aghast at the previous EULA, but this one does sound nicer even if nothing really seems to have changed.  I just don't really want yet another doo-hickey running on my PC all the time. 

Posted by Brodehouse

@YukoAsho said:

@Paul_Is_Drunk said:
This is definitely the year of gaming companies acting stupid. Ubisoft with their DRM, Gamestop with their policies, and EA with just about every single thing they do - from banning people from playing games they already purchased to this. Oh, and Blizzard trying to follow Ubisoft's always-on DRM policy. Did someone spike their Kool-Aid?
And funny how the only company that isn't doing that, Activision (let's face it, WoW has given Blizzard total autonomy), is the most vilified company in the industry because... Their games are popular. We as a fandom need to pick our enemies better.

Actually, Activision is vilified because of how they treat their developers. Activision has policies which are actually harmful for the long-term growth of the industry, and for the people designing the games you love.

I'm not surprised that people have chosen EA to demonize for doing the same thing everyone in the world does. I'm sure Giant Bomb can tell you what browser and OS you're using, and which pages are viewed the most, viewed the longest. It makes sense, they want to know what's most popular and what to focus their work on. I guess we're going to uninstall our Giant Bomb iPhone apps and curse their undying names. EA wants to know how powerful the average user's computer is (so they can suggest targets for their devs), they want to know what percentage of people use a 360 controller when playing Mass Effect 2, or a racing wheel playing Shift 2. As long as I don't have to actually answer any survey, I don't care, go ahead.

Posted by Chris_B

I hope EA sort this mess out befor ME3. Its the only game that will make me install Origin.

Posted by AttroPheed
I was kind of on the fence but now I don't think I need the 19th (according to wikipedia) version of Battlefield enough to justify installing a download service that mines my data without my permission and only sells partially complete (thanks to the miracle of DLC) EA sequels.  Not to mention whatever shenanigans got it booted off of Steam.
Posted by ShoddyGo

make the collection of data opt-in or you can back the fuck off EA
i uninstalled origin because of this shit and I don't plan to get it back any time soon.

Posted by css_switchfoot
@leebmx
I find it amazing that this sort of thing is allowable, or at least there isn't an opt out. Imagine if you went to the book shop to buy a novel and the guy at the counter said,  
  "We'll sell you this book, but you need to give us your address, all your bank details and from now on provide us with a complete list of all the books you read, when you read them, were they hardback or softback, whether you finished them or not and whether you used glasses or contacts to help you read. Oh and you also need to tell us were you where when you read them and how comfy your seat was if you were at home."  
  You would rightly tell them to piss off, so why is this any different? Companies should not have the right to our personal information, no matter how trivial, just because we have purchased a product.
I agree completely. I don't want any company having some rootkit on my computer tracking how many times I use CCleaner to ditch porn-cookies or how long I have uTorrent running. Even windows has opt-out features I don't see why EA thinks they are so special. I will definitely boycott paying for any game requiring Origin simply because I value my privacy, even if its trivial stuff.
Posted by Boiglenoight

I really want BF 3, but I'm scared of installing Origin. In fact, I uninstalled it the day the original story broke and no longer play Bad Company 2. I built the computer I have now for BF 3, but I'm going to hold off purchasing a copy in part out of mistrust and also as a form of silent protest. I don't want to reward companies who seek to gather information about me for any reason, to better their products or for selling marketing data to 3rd parties. I just want to buy my most currently anticipated game made by one of my favorite developers, DICE. It's really aggravating to see EA put their interests above what's best for their developers.

Posted by jmrwacko
@dream431ca said:

LOL at the people saying they won't buy BF3 because of origin. When has a EULA ever stopped you from playing a game before?

Didn't MW2 have that clause about Infinity Ward owning the rights to my soul or something?
Posted by MetalGearSunny
@jkuc316 said:
What is it with you and Adult Comedy Cartoons Alex?
yeah the simpsons is totally an adult cartoon.
Posted by bio595

Who cares? My details are out there already somewhere.

If they do illegal shit, they're shooting themselves in the foot. Maybe (maybe) they'll use them for something other than advertising and there will be cool shit (haha).

If I need to use Origin to get ME3 or anything else, I'll just add a spam filter if necessary.

Posted by YukoAsho
@Paul_Is_Drunk said:
This is definitely the year of gaming companies acting stupid.  Ubisoft with their DRM, Gamestop with their policies, and EA with just about every single thing they do - from banning people from playing games they already purchased to this.  Oh, and Blizzard trying to follow Ubisoft's always-on DRM policy.    Did someone spike their Kool-Aid?   
And funny how the only company that isn't doing that, Activision (let's face it, WoW has given Blizzard total autonomy), is the most vilified company in the industry because... Their games are popular.  We as a fandom need to pick our enemies better.
Edited by leebmx

I find it amazing that this sort of thing is allowable, or at least there isn't an opt out. Imagine if you went to the book shop to buy a novel and the guy at the counter said,  
  "We'll sell you this book, but you need to give us your address, all your bank details and from now on provide us with a complete list of all the books you read, when you read them, were they hardback or softback, whether you finished them or not and whether you used glasses or contacts to help you read. Oh and you also need to tell us were you where when you read them and how comfy your seat was if you were at home."  
  You would rightly tell them to piss off, so why is this any different? Companies should not have the right to our personal information, no matter how trivial, just because we have purchased a product.

Posted by This_Dude

They can change the wording all day,  but the fact still remains that they're gonna take information that you don't want them to, whether you like it or not.   At the end of the day, I'm still not going to touch any product that requires me to install Origin.  EA needs to ditch this garbage now.

Posted by Kyodra

My friend pre-ordered Battlefield 3 through Origin, even though he could get it on release day for 10 euros cheaper as a physical copy (which ties with Origin). His reasoning is "I want to be sure I get the game on release date" and "I'm willing to pay extra 10 euros to play it with my mates over the first weekend". He also doesn't care about what EA does with his information.

When gamers are this stupid I guess we deserve services like Origin. At this rate I'm betting Activision will resurrect Sierra next year as their own version of Origin. Gamers rejoice!

Posted by Matthew

I don't get it...just because you change the wording on something, does that change the purpose behind it? This is the exact situation of the wolf in sheep's clothing. The only thing they've done is to literally change the wording on it. They're still going to be collecting your data, finding out what programs you have, checking out your IP, hell, even selling your info!

this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as improving our products and services

Wow, how do you think they improve products and services? By better targeting a demographic, lets say. Oh, how do you better target a demographic? Why, sell the information to a third party firm that specializes in that sort of thing!

I was seriously going to buy this for PC. Why wouldn't I? I'm essentially building a new computer for it (more for Diablo 3, but this would be nice also).

At the very best, it's now going to be quite a few months until I get it. Ideally by that time, there will be some kind of workaround...

Posted by Viking_Funeral

This is definitely the year of gaming companies acting stupid.  Ubisoft with their DRM, Gamestop with their policies, and EA with just about every single thing they do - from banning people from playing games they already purchased to this.  Oh, and Blizzard trying to follow Ubisoft's always-on DRM policy.  
 
Did someone spike their Kool-Aid?   

Posted by jkuc316

What is it with you and Adult Comedy Cartoons Alex?

Posted by ribeye

@KarateKid said:

@aliengroups said:

@CL60 said:

@aliengroups said:

@CL60 said:

@ribeye said:

@KarateKid said:

Unless they plan on making origin a prereqesit to install their new games, I will never install it on my computer.

And even if they do I might think twice about getting that particular title. I just hope SW: TOR doesn't require it.

SWTOR will definitely use Origin

Wrong. They've already stated that the game doesn't require Origin at all.

Last I heard they said it did...

Quote from Stephen Reid

Regardless of what other games may choose to do in their integration with Origin's desktop client, here's what our situation is:

You are not required to use the Origin desktop client to download, patch or play the game client for
Star Wars: The Old Republic.This applies whether you purchase The Old Republic via Origin.com or from a retailer in boxed form. You will not be forced to install the Origin desktop client.There are still various consumer benefits to the client itself, but it's not required for The Old Republic.

AH! Sweet, I didn't know that, I'll prob still get it in case there's a good sale, but this is still good news :)

same, thanks for that piece of info @ribeye =)

hey no problem! except i was wrong, @CL60 is the one that got it right =D

Posted by TheChaos

Still never using Origin unless I'm at gunpoint.

Posted by BoneChompski

I was done with EA games at large anyway. The NFS series has been a stinker for years, I don't play sports games and have no interest in MMO's anymore. The only game they publish that I want is Alice and that is already on Steam, though it has never gone on sale.

Posted by LaserJesus

The two EULAs say the exact same thing except the new one has a bit at the beginning to placate people and the last one was written more like a legal document. Personally, I prefer the old one since it said more about what they gather instead of "technical and related information" and explicitly said that it was their way or the highway for information gathering if you wanted to use Origin. In all-caps even! I prefer my insidious corporations to be up front about their insidiousness, personally.

Posted by jdeano

To be honest, with all the shit I've had to sign up to just to play most of EA's games online, I'm surprised they haven't got enough data on me,

Edited by tourgen
@WEGGLES said:

Could you PLEASE put a note in the article that Application (with an upper-case A) means origin, not ANY application on your computer? It says that at the beginning of the EULA, but people seem to be ignoring that part.

"This License governs

your use of this application and all related software, documentation, and updates

and upgrades that replace or supplement the application and are not distributed

with a separate license (together, the “Application”)"

Application, with an upper-case A refers to Origin and any games installed with Origin. This is an important detail that is being ignored in favour of hivemind outrage.

", as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware."
 
I take "the software", and "software" usage to mean ANY AND ALL software.  They do not specify and they do not use Application in those instances.  If that wasn't the case they would have used "Application" or "The Application" in those places.
 
you are right, they were very careful about the terms they used and how they constructed that sentence.  It just doesn't mean what you think it means.
 
But don't worry.  I will be installing Origin into a VM and I will be capturing packets with Wireshark to determine EXACTLY what it is doing.  Full report coming.
Posted by MrKlorox

EA, fire the shit out of your EULA authors and the rest of the autists you employ who can't tell how fucked up your wording is beforehand.

Posted by KarateKid

@aliengroups said:

@CL60 said:

@aliengroups said:

@CL60 said:

@ribeye said:

@KarateKid said:

Unless they plan on making origin a prereqesit to install their new games, I will never install it on my computer.

And even if they do I might think twice about getting that particular title. I just hope SW: TOR doesn't require it.

SWTOR will definitely use Origin

Wrong. They've already stated that the game doesn't require Origin at all.

Last I heard they said it did...

Quote from Stephen Reid

Regardless of what other games may choose to do in their integration with Origin's desktop client, here's what our situation is:

You are not required to use the Origin desktop client to download, patch or play the game client for
Star Wars: The Old Republic.This applies whether you purchase The Old Republic via Origin.com or from a retailer in boxed form. You will not be forced to install the Origin desktop client.There are still various consumer benefits to the client itself, but it's not required for The Old Republic.

AH! Sweet, I didn't know that, I'll prob still get it in case there's a good sale, but this is still good news :)

same, thanks for that piece of info @ribeye =)

Posted by RsistncE

Wtf? They haven't changed anything, they've just basically explained what their EULA says. Fuck this shit, if EA cared they would give us the option to opt-out, but they didn't. Also he never stated anywhere which exact "products and services" they would be using the information for, nor did he say exactly where their collection data in terms of what you're doing on your computer stops (hint: it probably doesn't.)

Posted by dream431ca

LOL at the people saying they won't buy BF3 because of origin. When has a EULA ever stopped you from playing a game before?

Posted by Firrae

@CL60 said:

@aliengroups said:

@CL60 said:

@ribeye said:

@KarateKid said:

Unless they plan on making origin a prereqesit to install their new games, I will never install it on my computer.

And even if they do I might think twice about getting that particular title. I just hope SW: TOR doesn't require it.

SWTOR will definitely use Origin

Wrong. They've already stated that the game doesn't require Origin at all.

Last I heard they said it did...

Quote from Stephen Reid

Regardless of what other games may choose to do in their integration with Origin's desktop client, here's what our situation is:

You are not required to use the Origin desktop client to download, patch or play the game client for
Star Wars: The Old Republic.This applies whether you purchase The Old Republic via Origin.com or from a retailer in boxed form. You will not be forced to install the Origin desktop client.There are still various consumer benefits to the client itself, but it's not required for The Old Republic.

AH! Sweet, I didn't know that, I'll prob still get it in case there's a good sale, but this is still good news :)

Posted by crusader8463
@aliengroups said:

@CL60 said:

@ribeye said:

@KarateKid said:

Unless they plan on making origin a prereqesit to install their new games, I will never install it on my computer.

And even if they do I might think twice about getting that particular title. I just hope SW: TOR doesn't require it.

SWTOR will definitely use Origin

Wrong. They've already stated that the game doesn't require Origin at all.

Last I heard they said it did...

You won't have to use Origin to play the game if you buy it boxed, but if you want to buy it digitally the only place you can is on Origin. They also made a middle of the road deluxe edition in between the base game and the $170 uber 1337 collectors that you can only buy on Origin.
Posted by CL60
@aliengroups said:

@CL60 said:

@ribeye said:

@KarateKid said:

Unless they plan on making origin a prereqesit to install their new games, I will never install it on my computer.

And even if they do I might think twice about getting that particular title. I just hope SW: TOR doesn't require it.

SWTOR will definitely use Origin

Wrong. They've already stated that the game doesn't require Origin at all.

Last I heard they said it did...

Quote from Stephen Reid 
 
Regardless of what other games may choose to do in their integration with Origin's desktop client, here's what our situation is:

You are not required to use the Origin desktop client to download, patch or play the game client for 
Star Wars: The Old Republic.

This applies whether you purchase The Old Republic via Origin.com or from a retailer in boxed form. You will not be forced to install the Origin desktop client.

There are still various consumer benefits to the client itself, but it's not required for The Old Republic.
Posted by Firrae

@CL60 said:

@ribeye said:

@KarateKid said:

Unless they plan on making origin a prereqesit to install their new games, I will never install it on my computer.

And even if they do I might think twice about getting that particular title. I just hope SW: TOR doesn't require it.

SWTOR will definitely use Origin

Wrong. They've already stated that the game doesn't require Origin at all.

Last I heard they said it did...

Posted by Firrae

@WEGGLES said:

Could you PLEASE put a note in the article that Application (with an upper-case A) means origin, not ANY application on your computer? It says that at the beginning of the EULA, but people seem to be ignoring that part.

"This License governs

your use of this application and all related software, documentation, and updates

and upgrades that replace or supplement the application and are not distributed

with a separate license (together, the “Application”)"

Application, with an upper-case A refers to Origin and any games installed with Origin. This is an important detail that is being ignored in favour of hivemind outrage.

This is a very good point, I have not seen this used in any of the reports/news stories about Origins. I will end up using Origins in the future anyways for SWTOR, I'm not overly worried.

Posted by pekoe212

@WEGGLES said:

Could you PLEASE put a note in the article that Application (with an upper-case A) means origin, not ANY application on your computer? It says that at the beginning of the EULA, but people seem to be ignoring that part.

"This License governs

your use of this application and all related software, documentation, and updates

and upgrades that replace or supplement the application and are not distributed

with a separate license (together, the “Application”)"

Application, with an upper-case A refers to Origin and any games installed with Origin. This is an important detail that is being ignored in favour of hivemind outrage.

Ok, rereading the EULA in that light, it's much less sinister. It's not tracking every application you run, it's tracking how Origin runs. It sounds more like they just want to know how their software is running on your computer, if you're having problems with it. I don't really care if someone knows my computer specs, because they don't know they're MY computer specs. It's like an anonymous survey.

Posted by dagas

So they hired someone to say the same thing as before, but with slightly different words...

but people are overreaction about the porn thing. There is no profit for EA to know about what porn you like since they are not in the busniess of selling such games. They just want to know what games you play and how you play them, which is pretty much what is broadcasted to MS and its partners every time you play a 360 game.

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