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Posted by DrHorror84

It is definitely a contradiction. I (like most people) have a limited budget for games, and therefore must prioritize what I buy based on whether I can get it somewhere else more easily. For example, I'm going to spend more money on new games with more limited runs (such as obscure JRPGs) because I know that if I wanted something like Killzone, there are enough copies of it out there that I can pay less for it used through a variety of legit online options. Heavy Rain was a successful enough game that I could easily acquire it used, so I did (and I had my fill of it). It's wider release and subsequent success is part of what made that possible. I feel bad that the publisher didn't see my money, but myself and most people simply can't afford to buy games new all the time even when we know it's how people get paid. The solution will probably have to involve changing the relationship between consumer and developer/publisher, rather than simply asking that consumers pay full price for more titles and, as a result, play less games.

Posted by MordeaniisChaos

@ProfessorEss said:

.... trying to make me feel like an evil person because me, my wife and my son all played the same copy of Lego Star Wars. The gall of some people huh?

EA certainly wants to. I think your missing the point though, no one is saying a family or household shouldn't be able to play one copy of a game. Most consoles are owned by families, not individuals. That's fine.

Also, dude needs to stop whining. He had a critical and consumer success, hard to care that he's whining some more.

Edited by ProfessorEss
@Enigma777 said:

I'm really getting tired of these obnoxious headlines, Alex.

I dunno. Even though the headlines are over-the-top and the content is typically slanted towards whatever's best for the game journalism industry they still create some decent and/or entertaining back-and-forth sometimes.
Posted by Majkiboy
@Enigma777 said:
I'm really getting tired of these obnoxious headlines, Alex.
Posted by Fuga

No shut up. Alex never change your awesome headlines.

Posted by Pr1mus

@Fuga said:

No shut up. Alex never change your awesome headlines.
Posted by QKT

i wanted to play heavy rain, but it sucked so i put it away and sent it back.

Posted by kyrieee
@SparkEngineer said:

What a terrible article.

First of all, Quantic Dream has no choice in what their game costs. That's up to Sony, the developer.

Your criticism is off to a flying start
Posted by kalmis

@Kouvero said:

@lead_farmer said:

Bought it, played it once, loaned it to buddies. Now it sits on my shelf.

Same here. Really enjoyed it, though. Still kinda hard to get back into.

And same here. Have no interested playing the story/game from other angles

Posted by Flappy
@Fuga said:
No shut up. Alex never change your awesome headlines.
This.  Once I see an Alex Article, I forget whatever it is that I was looking for and read it immediately.  There are always laughs to be had!
Posted by Truitt

I rented the game from Blockbuster and beat it in a couple days. If I had bought it, I would have sold it off too. I enjoyed the game a lot, but I imagine I will never replay it.

Posted by ThatWasBrilliant

breakfast lunch and dinner!

Posted by Kouvero

@kalmis said:

@Kouverosaid:

@lead_farmer said:

Bought it, played it once, loaned it to buddies. Now it sits on my shelf.

Same here. Really enjoyed it, though. Still kinda hard to get back into.

And same here. Have no interested playing the story/game from other angles

And on some level I don't think anyone even should do replays. It becomes what it becomes.

Edited by I_smell

This title's a little bit dickish, he obviously just thought his game should've bin cheaper.

I mean what the fuck Alex, why rail on someone who wants to charge less for their next game?

Posted by BoneChompski

I won't pay full price for a game if I can't plan to play for a long, long time. Most of my favourite games I log over 100 hours and get the DLC for them too.

A game without great length or explicit replay value (and a so-so multi-player mode doesn't cut it) aren't worth my dollars/hour.

Posted by Delta_Ass

I guess I should also stop purchasing second-hand cars and books. Those car manufacturers and publishers aren't seeing a cent.

Online
Posted by BoneChompski

Unless they are on a fire sale ;).

Posted by Sammo21

I agree $60 is too expensive for most games, but game budgets are also a little over the top.

Why is it that video games are singled out for second hand sales? Books, cars, homes, boats, tools, CDs, DVDs, you name it...all of these are bought and sold second hand with no real care...but video games? Stop the presses!

Posted by Everyones_A_Critic

I bought it used, thought it was incredible my first playthrough but that stupid virtual reality detective shit made me never want to play through it again.

Posted by SSully

If games were 30 dollars instead of 60 he still wouldn't have sold that many more copies. Heavy rain is an obscure game that had little advertising, he can't honestly expect to be getting huge profit from a game like this.

Posted by SeriouslyNow

Frustrated failed developer moonlighting as games journalist pisses on successful games developer using poorly researched article masquerading as insight. Article gives truest insight into mind of author.

Posted by Maajin

Love you, Alex.

Posted by Ghostiet

If they want their next game to sell, Quantic Dream should hire actual writers and limit that douchebag's David Cage's involvement to the absolute minimum. It's all easy from there.

Posted by OtakuGamer

Being a game developer, surely he realises that mainstream titles cost millions to develop, how the hell is company going to get profit if they sell it around $30? They need to be at an expensive price in order to get a profit. Sadly Innovation isn't enough on its own anymore. You need to appeal to a much wider audience. The only place for innovation w/profit nowadays is in indie development.

Posted by Jimbo

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between €5 and €10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming."

Wrong, Guillame. They are playing their game, which you already sold once. They're not giving you one cent because they don't owe you one cent - they're buying something which no longer belongs to you. If you don't like the fact that copies of your game can be re-sold, then don't make your game available in product form in the first place.

The rules under which the market operates (First Sale doctrine etc.) were established and known long before a single line of code was written for this game. Again, if you don't like the rules, then don't play. Don't play, make a load of money, then still bitch about how unfair the rules are.

tl;dr: Vas te faire foutre, SVP.
Posted by Vendetta

Half of Giant Bomb hates Alex Navarro for trying way too hard to be funny, the other half loves him and finds him utterly hilarious and awesome.

Edited by ProfessorEss
@Sammo21 said: 

Why is it that video games are singled out for second hand sales? Books, cars, homes, boats, tools, CDs, DVDs, you name it...all of these are bought and sold second hand with no real care...but video games? Stop the presses!

Because videogame consumers are apparently biggest suckers in the world and have actually taken the side of the corporations trying to maximize their profits. They've bought the line that their favourite junior designer actually gets some cut in the sales and that it doesn't just get dumped into the publisher's bank account.
 
If any company in one of these other industries you mentioned tried to villainize the associated used market they would be made a fool of by their consumers.
Posted by cikame

Too damn high.

Posted by I_smell

@SSully said:

If games were 30 dollars instead of 60 he still wouldn't have sold that many more copies. Heavy rain is an obscure game that had little advertising, he can't honestly expect to be getting huge profit from a game like this.

The idea is that the million people who bought it used (or some that pirated it) would've bought it new, because it'd already be a cheap game. And also it would've got some sales from people who didn't buy it at all JUST because it's half price. So they would've sold a lot more, and made the same amount of (or a bit less) money.

Then that has a knock-on effect that there'd be twice as many USED copies out there, even MORE people would play it, and that many more people would be talking about it.

So by the time Quantum Dream's next game comes out in this scenario they'd have a gigantic fanbase.

Posted by Sammo21

@ProfessorEss: meh, I used to work at two different Gamestop branches and it all depended which part of town you were on. the gamestop at the mall had trade ins that mostly went to reserves and new titles. At the Gamestop on the poorer side of town, people not only traded in games for the bargain bin products that was also where they bought games mostly. I can understand their sympathies but yeah...

@rebgav: The housing market is based on fluctuations, market value, and many other things. Houses can go for considerably more or less than they were initially purchased for. As I stated above, the Gamestop I worked at on the poorer side of the town really sold only used stuff as they could only afford it. I think these developers need to learn how to make better games for cheaper. We already know the $60 price tag was full of crap as Activision started it to see if they could get away with it and then everyone else followed them. Even PC games now are going $60...for no damned reason; its all garbage and I will gladly side with the consumer any day over EA, Activision, or you name it.

Posted by HydraHam

I can't believe people are actually trying to compare used games to used dvds/cds.

Places that buy used DVDs gives you what? $1-2 per dvd? sell them back at $5-8, maybe $10? that isn't a huge profit, cds? new CDS are like $10, they can't make but maybe a few bucks as where places like gamestop are buying new $65 games from people for $15-25 and reselling them for $55.

It's like comparing apples to oranges it's fucking stupid.

Posted by RE_Player1

I have no problem with used games, I have a problem with pawn shops like Gamestop. Gamestop takes advantage of youngsters or people that can't afford every new release they want. They'll give you $2 on a game you trade in and when you look on the shelf you see they are selling it for $20. These people accept these ridculous prices because Gamestop is a fast way to get rid of the games. If people did a little leg work and sold their own games on sites like eBay they could get way more money back compared to Gamestop trades.

Posted by KoolAid

@Brodehouse said:

Games journalist criticizes everyone in industry, ignores criticisms of his writing.
Posted by Zelyre

Gaming as a whole has changed and the used market is not helping.

For those that argue that used games are nothing like pirating, how does that argument hold true? You're saving money so you can buy a new title that you know you want? A pirate can claim the same thing. I know many pirates, both PC and console, who only buy a handful of big AAA titles while pirating titles that they don't think is worth full price. The developer also gets... $0. I borrow a title from a friend for my 360 or PS3, the dev gets... $0.

Lower the price of retail games, you say? All right. Console games are now $49.99. The used version is now $39.99. That solved... nothing. Want to sell a digital only copy of your game for $19.99? Good luck not pissing off the retailers.

The retail market will become something like your big cinemas. A great place to see a Michael Bay AAA film. Want to see an art house film? Good luck. Much like the PC games section at Game Stop, you'll see the new titles section shrink. You'll see new titles selections shrink. Looking for that copy of Shin Shin Mega Super Cooking Adventure RPG 13? If you didn't pre-order it, we have used copies.

"But, but, used cars!"

That's like comparing American football to football.

Posted by Jimbo

@Sooty said:

@Sanious said:

@TekZero said:
I've said it all along, buying used games is no different than piracy.
It actually is, by a long shot.

Not really. Piracy and used games both give the publishers and developers nothing. You can argue that the game was originally bought new at some point which gave them some money but it doesn't quite rule out the fact that two users have played the game while the publisher & developer only saw $60 from both of you combined.

Piracy is more of a concern due to you being able to easily distribute multiple copies of a game, though. You can't magic used games out of thin air.

So apart from the fact that all used games were once sold as new copies, apart from the fact that the right to resell a game already added value to the new product, and apart from the fact that piracy -unlike the used market- is a totally unlimited supply... they're no different!

Is this a Monty Python sketch or something?

Posted by Pr1mus

So the shitstorm is still going strong eh?

Posted by Eribuster

So that's what "to have one's cake, and eat it too" means. I never thought of 'have' being used that way.

Posted by The_Nubster
@Sanious said:
Well, let's see.  The game wasn't that great and you lost the potential of more sales by promising tons of DLC for the game, then ditching it just to add move support to push more copies of your title. They could have made a decent amount more if they didn't decide to jump at the chance of an awful console trend. 
Not to mention that the only DLC they released had a different actress voice Madison, something they couldn't be assed to fix. For a character-driven game, maybe you should put a bit more care into the characters.
Posted by Soffish

Personally I think the used market is an incredibly important part of the industry. It allows people to experience games that they couldn't/wouldn't have purchased, and personally I think more people playing more games is a very good thing. For example: many moons ago I rented Indigo prophecy and I really liked it. Because I enjoyed it so much I eventually bought a copy of indigo prophecy as well as heavy rain. I would have never have made those purchases if the used market didn't exist.

Edited by AndrewB

I'd have bought it (and probably ultimately regretted it) if it had been on a console I owned. Can't expect a console exclusive to do amazingly when that console wasn't even doing well in my country at the time. 
 
Though 2 million new sales *is* good for a video game.

Posted by ComradeKhan

I bought a used copy at Gamestop, beat it, and then returned it for a full refund... So I guess I cheated Quantic Dream AND Gamestop out of money on that one... I'm the worst.  

Posted by saskbob

His argument makes perfect sense. I think perhaps the problem will be in retailers not wanting to have to devote the same amount of shelf space for less 50% less margin, although when you look at return per square foot of retail space how can they really complain even if games were in the $30-40 range (ever notice there is hardly any DS or 3DS used sales?)

Posted by Sammo21

@rebgav: that selling things at a higher cost than what they were purchased for isn't really a big deal if the demand is that high. I fully blame consumers on that end. If they are stupid enough to merely save $5-7 instead of buy new that's their fault they are getting gouged. That's like condemning the drug dealer and not the user. I also don't think it's anyone right to tell Gamestop they can't do this. Enough people stopped buying them then Gamestop would have to change its model.

Posted by NeoGamer

So I guess the guy can't imagine that people finish his 8 hour game and just lend it to friends or just want to get rid of it? Stupid. And if games were $30, it would be the same. We do this since ever. If I want to sell my game, I can. If 50 friends want to borrow my copy, what the hell is the problem?

But if you wanna complain about the absurd profits that GameStop and other giant retail chains make on used games without giving anything back, I think that's a valid point. But in a way, this is partially consumer's fault. If a store sells a used recent game for ridiculous $55, why the hell some people won't pay $5 more for a brand-new copy? That's why I see no problem with online passes and stuff like that.

Posted by TheSeductiveMoose

Well, I certainly regret buying it.

Posted by patronics

Tough shit. I don't know why game developers feel like they should be immune to people exercising their right of first sale. Does every furniture maker wring their hands about people buying second hand couches at a thrift store?

Posted by ThePilgrums

I'm annoyed so many people did buy Heavy Rain, myself. What an overrated game.

Posted by ajamafalous

@CaptStickybeard said:

Every Navarro article title is comedy gold.