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328 Comments
Posted by Rapid

@Doppelgamer said:

For those in Canada. People in B.C., Alberta, Quebec or Ontario = exempt.

Oh cool, hmm but I don't think Sony knows this?

Posted by ItBeStefYo

This is some bullshit. Can microsoft ask people if they want to be their slaves and if they press agree without reading it, they will be their slaves? dumb

Posted by coloursheep

i dont kow if its an american thing to get all up in arms when some of your rights are taken away, except of course if it is for national security then by all means get rid of them, but if sony wants to protect themselves from getting sued because someone else hacked their system then they should and anyone who sued or tried to sue sony for the hack then they are extremely misguided and should instead focus their efforts on trying to get governments to crack down on cyber crime. remember sony was a victim of the hack as much as any user if not more so, so dont judge them if they are trying to protect themselves because they got hacked then people tried to sue them instead of those actually responsible for the hack.

Posted by ComradeCrash

Wow. We do need to start reading these things...

Posted by Boiglenoight

@RiotBananas said:

I don't normally care and don't intend of suing Sony anyway but I'm going to send a fucking letter just as a matter of principle.

This. Thanks for the easy-peasy template. Now I just need a stamp.

Posted by Jeffsekai

As soon as I saw the title I knew Patrick wrote it.

Posted by TheSouthernDandy
@Cyrisaurus
*coughsonyfanboycough*
No but seriously, its not the fact that people are intending to sue sony that is the issue. Why would anybody buy a product with expectations of a lawsuit? That's friggin crazy talk. Its the fact that sony is trying to limit what legal options john q. gamer has to act on should I problem arise. And they're trying to be sneaky about it. If you wanna bury your head and just take what you're given go for it but ignoring it because you dig sony products is dumb.
Edited by falling_fast

spelling mistake in the article title.

"

whether this will even holds up."

Posted by Tackchevy

I tried hard to be outraged or feel violated by this. Just couldn't do it.

Posted by umdesch4

@zanshin said:

damn Second place means you lost...

What would you expect from the makers of the secret root kit. This is why I don't buy sony products AT ALL.

This has been my standard position on the subject.

Sony's arrogance and contempt for their customers; saving me money since 2005. :)

Posted by LordCmdrStryker

@damnable_fiend said:

spelling mistake in the article title.

"

whether this will even holds up."

OH NOEZ! CALL THE GRAMMAR POLICE!

Posted by Bats

@Cyrisaurus: Congrats on being a tool. Just because you are apathetic and others are, doesn't mean that people shouldn't be made aware, or should be complacent while they are afforded less and less rights. It's not a matter of whether they will sue Sony or not, it's that they have the ability to do so. There's a very famous poem that relates to issues of this nature...

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

We're not in a totalitarian state by any means, but the fact that Corporations are daily usurping more and more of our rights and choice while continuing to force feed us what they think is best vs what we actually want does not bode well for what is to come. It's small steps at first, and then the bigger and bigger ones.

Posted by kpaadet

I can't really blame any corporation that wants to protect itself from the lawsuit happy americans. ;)

Posted by Protome

@Meatsim said:

Ugh looks like I need to pay more attention to Terms of Service now.

Yes, you do.

Even if only for the funnily worded things that some people put in theirs.

There was a game store in the UK that added into their terms of service a clause that made them own your soul (it was pretty funny) and Unreal Tournament 3's EULA is full if fantastic quotes. Such as

Cheating: Nobody likes a cheater. It's a disgraceful way to earn a win and really is an insult to those players who earn their wins in on-line games the old-fashioned way-WITH TALENT. We're pretty hard on cheating in on-line games using the Software because it sullies the overall gaming experience and is JUST PLAIN LAME. With that in mind, if you are caught cheating in an on-line game using the Software we will immediately and permanently ban your account. At that point, this License is automatically terminated and you must immediately delete this software from your PC. Failure to comply with this last bit (deleting the software) may bring on the wrath of the lawyers. Trust us-you don't want that.

and

Upon termination, you must destroy the Software and related documentation. Please don't wait for us to come after you; it would not be pleasant for either of us. If we do have to come after you, we're going to expect you to pay us for our troubles, including the cost of our lawyers.

Of course, this Sony one is no laughing matter. But still, take the time to read the Terms of Service and EULA. Sometimes people put a lot of effort into them.

Posted by TiddlyWinks_925

These change in policy agreements that are super long aggravate me. I feel like I'm not allowed to complain about being mistreated as a user if I don't even take the time to read the agreement. On the other hand, the company should really try to make this stuff easier to digest. I don't understand why policy updates can't just contain the actual part of the policy that is being updated. It would be better if they said "we know you were cool with all of that stuff, how would you feel is we added this?".

Posted by MordeaniisChaos

@Cyrisaurus: You're right, only American's care about that shit. And also, it'd be poor form as a citizen to allow one's rights to be violated, removed, or tricked away.

I had no idea you could just send them a letter, and if not for this article, never would have found out. I had already heard of the ToS changes and figured I kinda had no choice, and didn't read through it all. Sure, that's my fault, but because of the language of ToS agreements, I never would have understood the clause in question anyway, so even had I read it, I never would have thought "well I should probably do that letter thing then."

I like Sony, they never did anything to bother me much beyond the PSN downages, and they compensated well for that. I don't expect to need to sue them, but if I have good reason, then I should be able to. This shouldn't be legal.

@BenderUnit22: Ok? No one ever mentioned suing someone for no reason. You could certainly argue that there probably aren't many reasons to sue Sony, but if something were to happen, say they were to be compromised for real, and CC information actually got out, and you weren't able to sue them collectively, it'd be pretty silly. The right to take legal actions for silly reasons is an important one, because often what people consider unworthy of legal action is something that needs to be pushed. Things like Gay Marriage, women's rights (remember, it used to be silly to think of women voting. Now it's silly to think that it wasn't just allowed from the start), civil rights. No, Sony won't be sued over such things. But there is no way you can say "Sony is perfect, and will never give you good reason to sue." I like Sony. I'm one of the few who took their side in the hacking debacle. But my right to take legal action against them is important, and it should never be taken away, even partially.

Posted by outerabiz

so where do we send our mail if we're not in the US?

Posted by Blackout62

Great now I just need to figure out how to mail a letter.

Posted by Cyrisaurus

@TheSouthernDandy: *coughmsfanboy* oh look I can do it too. Next time don't forget that your name is green when you are calling someone out.

Also, what's dumb is someone trying to act like a rebel by not agreeing with this ToS and sitting on their laptop on message boards saying "Yeah, stick it to the man, they can't make me do nothin'."

All that results in is a PS3 owner who can't play games online. They're only hurting themselves.

Posted by bhhawks78

As someone who spent dozens of hours in emails and phone calls due to my email getting stolen (gone permanently now:( led to a stolen steam account, fucked up my twitter, fucked up my amazon, my new egg, my netflix, my gamefly etc etc etc) i'm not agreeing to anything sony asks.

Edited by paisan13

I was just on my way to get me a PS3, but until Sony check themselves I just have to pass.

BTW Great article Patrick!! ^_^

Posted by knightlyknave

@Doppelgamer said:

For those in Canada. People in B.C., Alberta, Quebec or Ontario = exempt.

That's awesome. Thanks for pointing that out. Screw you Sony. yay Canada!

Posted by BasketSnake

I'm switching sides and buying a 3DS. This is outrageous! OUTRAGEOUS!

Posted by BadOrcLDR

I understand why they're doing it, but it just feels a bit slimey. Then again, I have no intention of suing them, so I don't much care.

Posted by darkdragonmage99

Too be honest someone should sue them over this in and of it's self. Or at least press charges This is black mail they hold your right to sue them hostage or your ability to play online.

All of these post purchase it's already too late contracts are total bullshit in the first place. Here give me 60 bucks open the game put it in. Oh yeah you can't use this unless you agree to this oh and by the way stores don't accept open games as returns so agree or you just wasted money.

Posted by Kyle

WOW. That's amazing. You know, I don't think I've ever described the actions of game company as evil, but if I were to, this would probably be it.

Posted by benjaebe

@Kyle said:

WOW. That's amazing. You know, I don't think I've ever described the actions of game company as evil, but if I were to, this would probably be it.

It's not just Sony though. Valve, for example, has had the same thing in their EULA forever. It's probably fairly common and the only reason people are realizing it now is that they changed their EULA to have it and, following the PSN hacking thing, people have been paying attention to stuff that Sony does.

Posted by Kratch

It's like Sony is asking to get hacked again.

Edited by Beb

@Cyrisaurus said:

@TheSouthernDandy: *coughmsfanboy* oh look I can do it too. Next time don't forget that your name is green when you are calling someone out.

Also, what's dumb is someone trying to act like a rebel by not agreeing with this ToS and sitting on their laptop on message boards saying "Yeah, stick it to the man, they can't make me do nothin'."

All that results in is a PS3 owner who can't play games online. They're only hurting themselves.

Blindly agreeing to the ToS only hurts yourself.

As I understand it, if you agree, but then send the letter, it basically allows to you ignore the terrible part where Sony tries to force you to waive your rights. So you still get to play.

This really isn't a "fanboy" issue. No doubt people who hate Sony will enjoy this example of corporate evil on their part, but if Microsoft or even Nintendo did this it would be just as terrible.

Suggesting that throwing your rights away is "no big deal" and that defending ourselves is some kind of hipster fad is childish and foolish at best. Being a big Sony fan means you are more likely to be screwed by this ToS than others, not less.

Edited by TheSouthernDandy

@Cyrisaurus:

Oh I didn't forget. I figured you'd point that out. I own a 360 that's why its green. Difference is, I can admit when MS does something stupid cause console fanboyism is pretty stupid.

The fact that you're whole stance is "yous just wanna be rebels, I just wanna play games dog!" shows you're missing the point entirely. Anti sony groups are responsible for lawsuits? Really? What a strange and wonderful world you must live in...

Posted by Death_Unicorn

Ugh...

Edited by ProfessorEss

I think the entire ToC and EULA situation has to be looked into. 
 
Every single company out there is abusing these concepts. They're all purposely making their agreements unbearably long and nearly unreadable due to excessive use of cryptic legal jargon. 
 
I denied my first EA one the other day purely based on the fact that it took something like an entire minute just to scroll as fast as I could to the bottom - easily an hour or more of reading indecipherable and redundant legal-speak. 

Posted by F3dtmule

So first Sony loses all their customer data to hackers and then they want us to make sure we can't sue them when it happens again.

I'm interested to see if this is a valid agreement. In most european countries you can't make customers waive their rights which is probably why they've only changed the TOS in the US.

Posted by Zaapp1

@Afroman269 said:

I don't use my ps3 enough to care about all this but I think I'll send in a letter anyways. Thanks for the heads up, Patrick.

A sensible response that sums up my opinion? How fortunate.

Online
Posted by Twisted_Scot

Live in Canada so I guess if the shit were to hit the fan and I for some reason felt the need to sue I still could but It's not really my style. Besides doesn't it say that even if you say its OK, live in the US and dont opt out within the 30 days you could still settle out of court If something arose?  As long as they covered my legal fees and sorted out any other fees related to the incident id be fine with that. As long as it doesn't effect my Blu-ray playback It wouldn't effect me anyway.

Posted by Tupacalypse

@benjaebe: really? do you know where in their tos it is? i honestly would like to see it that crazy that thats there.

Posted by AmericanNinja

whats with the sony hate today on Giant Bomb?

Posted by GrimFandango9

There is a reason why this only applies to the U.S., you have a horrendous suing culture!

Edited by august
@benjaebe said:

@Kyle said:

WOW. That's amazing. You know, I don't think I've ever described the actions of game company as evil, but if I were to, this would probably be it.

It's not just Sony though. Valve, for example, has had the same thing in their EULA forever. It's probably fairly common and the only reason people are realizing it now is that they changed their EULA to have it and, following the PSN hacking thing, people have been paying attention to stuff that Sony does.

Cite please.
Posted by TinyGallon

@kpaadet said:

I can't really blame any corporation that wants to protect itself from the lawsuit happy americans. ;)

Sadly, this is completely spot on. That's our solution to everything, unfortunately

Posted by depecheload

@Cyrisaurus:

You just lay down and take it then. I'll be exercising my rights, thanks.

Posted by yyZiggurat

Thanks for the heads up, Patrick. I would have considered buying a Roku and ditching consoles altogether if there wasn't a way to opt out of this.

Posted by NeoUltima

I'm not a lawyer, but I took a business law class a year ago. The teacher specifically said these clauses almost never hold up in court. They are just more of a deterrent to get people to think before sueing. But if you have a legitimate reason to sue, the clause will do nothing.

Posted by Juicebox

WOW SONY knows how crazy it's fans are. Making fun of them with the Butler commercials, now this wow. Sony Expliting it's diehard fanboys.

Posted by Alraiis

@august said:

@benjaebe said:

@Kyle said:

WOW. That's amazing. You know, I don't think I've ever described the actions of game company as evil, but if I were to, this would probably be it.

It's not just Sony though. Valve, for example, has had the same thing in their EULA forever. It's probably fairly common and the only reason people are realizing it now is that they changed their EULA to have it and, following the PSN hacking thing, people have been paying attention to stuff that Sony does.

Cite please.

A. EXCLUSIVE REMEDY -- STEAM AND THE SOFTWARE.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT.

Steam Subscriber Agreement, Section 10. Caps Lock is theirs. Disclaimer: I am by no means a contract expert, so I don't know if that clause is in the same ballpark or not.

Posted by daggon55

@NeoUltima: I recall hearing something similar, however it can make a potential class action more costly because you have to get the court to overturn the clause first. At least I think thats how it works, also not a lawyer.

Posted by xbob42

I'd love to watch a judge laugh this EULA out of court, as judges are wont to do.

Posted by norry

Should we all get together and sue Sony for causing us mental distress by having to sign this EULA? Worth thinking about people. I smell $$$$.

Seriously though, credit card fraud is covered by the card issuer (or it is here in the UK at least) so I can't think of any reason I'd ever want to sue Sony, or Microsoft.

Posted by lordgodalming

Why are people making such a stink about this? The EULAs for Valve and iTunes, for example, are way more intrusive than the PSN's. And anyway, if millions of people's credit cards got stolen again, the company would be held responsible again. Simple as that.

And you made us a template? Articles like this are pure fear-mongering. I love GB, but Mr. Klepek brings down the whole site.

Posted by gla55jAw

Thanks Patrick. Just sent my letter.