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Edited by emjaylawthertin

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/09/mandatory-ps3-update-removes-right-to-join-in-a-class-action-lawsuit.ars

Two things from the Ars article: don't forget to add your PSN account number, and absolutely get all of the US Mail bells and whistles (delivery confirmation, signatures, etc).

We all have rights. Signing them away thoughtlessly is yours if you wish. I'll send a letter.

Thanks for spreading good information, Patrick.

Posted by Xsheps

Glad I left my PS3 in a dumpster in the middle of a thunderstorm.

Posted by ezdude

Wooooooooo, I'm American so I'm going to sue the shit out of Sony, thanks Klepek!

Yeah but really I don't know what Sony is thinking, don't they realize this is exactly the kind of stuff that produces rage around the internet. I don't think Sony is in the position to be endangering their public relations right now, at least not here in the U.S.

Also, pretty brilliant idea of having comments be like 1.5 line spaced, makes it easier to read--now to make the font blue...

Posted by Lobst

Sent my letter just to let them know I'm not going to stand by and let them waive my right to pursue legal action. I encourage everyone with a PSN account to do the same -- they've messed up once, they could do it again.

Thanks for the story, Patrick! You do great work :D

Posted by habster3

@wickedsc3

Holy shit, I forgot about that whole fiasco. My bad :P

Edited by mariokart64fan

man sony really ? maybe you should not give people reason to sue you, if you dont wanna sue you but making us agree to some garbage that is unconstitutional , guess what , ill gladly renew my 360 , now thank you , after you been shut down yet again , lol it never seams to fail , when you get free service it really dont pay off , well in some cases, at least the wii was yet to surcome to this outage its not like sony offers me rugrats to begin with, ill keep my gold just for that reason , and that reason alone since online gaming just is not fun any more , especlly when you got hackers and such exploiting the game so it is impossible to win a single match speaking of that i just played a game of gta iv and to no suprise a guy admits to modding and guess what else i got it on facebook on video , lol , and i have already reported him lol sucks to be him i guess cause he sure signed out fast haha

Posted by laviddichterman
Posted by Fire_Marshall_Bill

Frankly anyone who finds this an acceptable practice is being a bit niave. If you are ok with giving over your rights to corporations why don't you just give them your power of attorney while you are at it. Just so long as you can play Gears 3, Diablo, or COD.

Posted by SHADOWINFINITE

I don't want to sue Sony for any reason, but if you don't send a letter, you don't get online play. Which really is stupid.

Posted by MonkeyKing1969

@Blackout62 said:

Truly Mr. Klepek you are the Cronkite of our industry.

I met Walter Chronkie in 1980's at the Tisbury Agricultural Society Fair; he was talking to my father as they both filled-in raffle tickets for the Jeep Wrangler. FUN FACT: Neither Walter nor my father won the jeep that year.

Posted by Gregner

It's lame, but really, I would never have any intentions of suing them.

Posted by StickyW3b

I would send in a letter.....but id rather just play some Battlefield then pretend to care that I cant sue a company I never had intention of suing in the first place

Posted by OneManX

Ehhh.. It;s not different from when you signed papers with a new employer. And people who use iTunes should read the EULA..

This is nothing new, b/c it's Sony it's slimey... click and just move one.

Edited by Insanelycool

@Cyrisaurus: you should be careful making such blanket statements. especially ones you know nothing about. i had my credit card information stolen and used because of the psn breach. people do and should care. you never know when you will need those rights you are giving away. remember what happened to the man who gave up his freedom for security... he got neither.

Posted by Blackout62

Truly Mr. Klepek you are the Cronkite of our industry.

Posted by Cyrisaurus

@Nethlem: Yeah but you know what? That will never happen, and you know it.

You think you can throw some worst case scenario at me that has a 0.01% chance of happening and suddenly I'm wrong?

Not to mention, "shit happens". I'm not one of those fools who think that everything is someone else's fault and that I should be paid millions of dollars because "hot coffee burns when I spill it on myself".

Also, I'm sure there are a million other things wrong with this country that are making the founding fathers turn in their graves fast enough for them to drill into the Earth's core, I don't think some guy agreeing to a ToS for convenience in exchange for a right that he will never use is making it any worse.

I'm sure you're right though, we should all live over-protected lives with lawyers on our side ready to sue any company with money. You act like Ben Stiller's character from that movie where he is a Risk Analysis who never has fun.

Edited by Nethlem

@Cyrisaurus: It's really sad that i as an non-american have to do this but i have to do this so maybe you can see the pure wrongness of your statement:

"Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security."

The sad part is that you are giving away your rights for a little bit of convenience. I can't decide if that's just sad or plain pathetic, but i'm pretty sure the founding fathers of your countrie are rotating in their graves right now.

Also you might now wanna sue sony now, but you never know what's gonna happen. You certainly won't miss your customer rights when a faulty PS3 unit sets your house on fire killing your family and destroying your whole life. Stuff like that NEVER happens right? You know like car's don't get sold without working breaks... oh wait..

Posted by phantomzxro
@Xeirus said:

@phantomzxro said:

@go_diego_go said:

@phantomzxro: @phantomzxro said:

@wickedsc3 said:

@lordgodalming said:

once again you are giving me a story in which you can't prove i'm not saying no one was affect i'm just saying many people are using this as a reason to give sony all this heat when they were not affect or even know anyone who was affect. For the most part Sony has done its job to make good on this and If your ID or card info was taken i don't think you will have a problem with sony helping you on this matter. So you are creating a story that can't be proven yourself. I don't think you will have a problem sueing sony for all the money their worth if an extreme case like that was to happen, and rightfully so. But don't you find it strange that sony has gotten sued more for removing linux then people info being hack from sony. The reason is many people are going overbroad with trying to sue sony for anything. But i'm not here to try and defend sony i think they learned from their mistakes and made good on it. If you feel different that is fine by me, because sure a company looks out for themself but there is a check and balance also because they need customers to make money so they have to take care of their customers if they want money, so most companies are not trying to screw over their customers or at the very least not out in the open. like i said this is only in place to weed out bogus class action lawsuits, if you really have a case i'm sure a judge would be happy to throw this out if they deem it worthy.

Christ the stupidity spewing from your mouth is pathetic......... I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or just really are that stupid.......



Who is really trolling here i have not once insulted you or called your opinions stupid. I respect your opinion and just simply disagree with you, nothing mean or trolling about it just a debate among gamers. I don't really know what is really stupid about what i said and believe it make sense at the very least. Sony is getting a lot of unjust heat just because hey from time to time they have to be a company and protect their own interest. Linux being removed sucks for some but hey it was because of backdoor hacking into their systems. System being down people have a right to be pissed and if your account infomation was taken and you lose money or resourses because of it you have every right to sue or damn sony. Last i check sony is trying to help out anyone who has such a case. And now this sony is just using the same terms of agreement that other services use that people may have named already. Once again your not signing aways your rights here, it only affect class action lawsuits and even then if a case is strong a judge could surely throw it out.  
 
look if your truly that mad at sony fine write them a letter and curse their name on the street its fine by me. but many companies have crappy term of services like this that don't mean a whole lot in the grand plan of things. All i know is their gaming service has been fine so far for me and i have not had a problem with sony, so until i do i can't see people want to raise hell over stuff like this when ps3 service is good not perfect but good.  
Edited by rta

big deal. you lose the right to get 43 cents from some half-assed class action suit if sony looses your email address. big. freakin. deal. they'll give you a free game and a free resistance shirt under the table if you cry hard enough, which you'll like better anyway.

Posted by QKT

@Robiin said:

And now PSN is down until... With no news of when it will be up. This article was pretty timely, Patrick

this is true, and ironic.

Posted by SomeJerk

Yeah MonkeyKing1969, Live has been mysteriously down a shitload of times, and Live accounts are getting hijacked back and forth en masse lately and nothing about that, even Live accounts belonging to people who don't even have a 360, just own a phone and boom, ripped off, relocated to China or Russia, CC data belonging to the account gets used to buy a bunch of Live points and burn them.. and nothing.

Posted by Robiin

And now PSN is down until... With no news of when it will be up. This article was pretty timely, Patrick

Posted by MonkeyKing1969

Collectively sue for what? Want be be angry about something be angry about cutting down old growth forest on public lands, fracking natural gas out of the ground, or 500 million tons of non-degrading plastic floating in our oceans.

What is happeing to the news around here? Why are we suddely getting news with a distinct agenda that seesm to just be Patricks whim? Is Mr. Kelpek supped to be the Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart of GB, because he should know he'll needs a gagel of New York writers behind him to be that interesting?

Edited by Firrae

I love this site for it's fanboys... Question a console maker and everyone who loves it hates you. God I hate fanboys, and for the record I own all the systems and still prefer PC gaming. Before you go flaming me, please think before you type.

Also good story Patrick, very informative and I'll be sending my letter just because I can :) Keep up the awesome work!

Posted by Enigma_2099

OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!! It's not that big of a deal! Most class action lawsuits are just cash grabs, and if you're THAT worried about them pulling something under the guise of "diplomatic immunity," keep this in mind. Even if it came to that, if they pissed off people bad enough, this would lose them potential customers, so they'd shoot themselves in the foot. They're just trying to protect themselves from greedy lawsuits/lawyers/gamers. Remember the guy that tried to sue them over refusal of service for maintenance on his PS3... then later we find out that this was because he was practically too lazy to clean the LAYER of dirt he left on the damn thing? Yeah, that.

Posted by Vacancy009

Fanboyism over basic rights abound. Of course nobody expects to sue Sony, and aside from the law firm representing the case those in a class action lawsuit don't get rich. If you were to get more than 5$ being a non founding member of a class action lawsuit against Sony then they would have had to put out a console that caused seizures in 75% of its owners. The purpose of a class action lawsuit is not for high monetary gain for the plaintiffs but for high monetary loss for the defendant due to some gross negligence on their part. It's meant to keep them in line so they cannot take advantage of the consumer. I 100% agree that the majority of these lawsuits are frivolous BS brought up by selfish and self righteous people that should never see the light of day. But if they were to do something serious, such as use a part that has a known risk to catch fire within a system but risk it to keep costs down, you should not give up your right to make sure your heard.

Posted by mrhollender

This is increasingly becoming the standard with a lot of companies. Check out the terms on your Best Buy card, or many other Line of Credit cards.

They may want to avoid Class Action, but one thing that you can do, and puts a big hurt on their legal team, is group arbitration. If everyone that would've signed up for a Class Action suit instead goes with arbitration, Sony has to have a representative present or lose the arbitration "case". This has been done with other mandatory arbitration cases, and has brought about a swift change in TOS verbiage.

Posted by scarycrayons

@kpaadet said:

I knew is was written by Patrick the second I read the headline, taking something and blowing it way out of proportion seems to be his M.O., you dont have to be a laywer to know this wont hold up in court. Terms of Services are not legal binding. I am really not liking what Patrick Klepek is turning Giantbomb into.

The headline sounds entirely accurate to me. What part of it do you think is out of proportion?

Sony -is- asking you to waive the rights you agreed to, and you -do- have options.

Posted by TheGubbins

As it's been said, Sony are no different to any other corporation that others an online service/payment system. All these services have terms that try to protect the provider (Sony) from the users (the PSN account holders).

If the security Sony used was clearly substandard and it resulted in users loosing money then those individuals still can file a personal lawsuit against Sony (and likely win). In fact, in those cases companies like Sony would settle early on as they would be clearly at fault.

Posted by SpicyRichter

@Cyrisaurus: How do you know? It's only been a few months...

Posted by kpaadet

I knew is was written by Patrick the second I read the headline, taking something and blowing it way out of proportion seems to be his M.O., you dont have to be a laywer to know this wont hold up in court. Terms of Services are not legal binding. I am really not liking what Patrick Klepek is turning Giantbomb into.

Posted by laugurinn

Dick Move Dicks!

Posted by haggis

It's the principle of the thing: Sony is trying to avoid responsibility for its failures. While I doubt many have the intention of suing the company, it's a signal that Sony doesn't have confidence in its product. Now it's trying to cover its ass. At some level I understand this response, but it's a bit irritating. The fact that some people abuse the right to sue doesn't mean the right means nothing or isn't worth defending. Companies that try to do this sort of thing really ought to be penalized in some way. But in the end I suspect class action suits would go forward despite the clause: judges won't look kindly on trying to sneak something like this past their customers.

I'll send the letter. Truth is, I'd never have considered suing Sony, either individually or in a class action suit. But it's just one more way they've pissed me off. It's an unforced error on their part. And not by any means the first time they've done so. :/

Posted by SonicFire

You really think that your "rights" are protected through class actions? That's a little naive; were you hoping to get that sweet 2 dollars for suing Sony into oblivion the next time the PSN goes down? Note that sony cannot waive rights to things like strict liability (say, if your PS3 randomly explodes and hurts you).

For anything large enough to initiate a class action, the negative press alone is going to be way more damaging. Take, for instance, the Rockstar hot coffee debacle. That class action was an afterthought at best, which was deserving of its own mockery, but the negative press was incredible.

Look, I'm not trying to defend sony, but I get a little peeved when I see headlines like this. It's just puffed up; there's NOTHING unusual about arbitration agreements in product licenses.

Edited by studnoth1n

@Cyrisaurus: i actually do agree with this to some extent. the reason being is that the ps3 (or any console for that matter) doesn't really offer anything that i couldn't easily walk away from. however, i can't say to any certainty that that climate won't change over the years and become more pervasive and harder to avoid. regardless of the topic, critical thinking should always be left in the on position.

Posted by Lunar_Aura

I'm sorry but I have no empathy for people who still put their real information on PSN after the whole debacle. Fake info and PSN money card should be the only option.

Why even give them a reason to sue? Game anonymously, my brothers!

Posted by rflx

The template document has a typo. It says "Attn: Legal Department/Abitration"

That's my only contribution to this story.

Online
Posted by AkIRA_22

USA! USA! USA!

Posted by Hilts

If I was a US citizen I would definitively be sending my letter to Sony. If they receive enough of these letters maybe it will make them think twice about pulling these stunts in the future and take some responsibility for their 'customers'.

Posted by KestrelPi

Perhaps we should send the letters in big boxes. They'll LOVE THAT.

Edited by Brackynews

@Katkillad said:

Also i think everyone needs to relax and stop condensating on people.

You win. :) ISWYDT.

Edited by BitterAlmond

Goddamned Sony. Trying to take our rights. We ought to sue them for that.

Posted by mustardfacial

Signed. I have no intention of suing Sony. But fuck them for trying this shit.

Posted by Katkillad

@Cyrisaurus said:

Newsflash, nobody lost their CC info from the PSN attacks, or suffered any long-term effects. So it would be best for people to move on, and just play some damn video games

Incorrect, personally i forgot my ps3 account password was the same as my xbox live password and now i've had $100+ dollars charged from my bank account because my 360 account got hacked. Those were the only two accounts that used that password and there's no other place that password could have been obtained.

So my credit card info was used against me... all because sony had a security breach. Lets say that didn't even happen, you'd be surprised how much you can do with a person's full name, address, and phone number... So don't talk like it's not a big deal to lose millions of users information like it's just another day. Sony has the responsibility to keep that information secure...and now they want you to sign an agreement saying you won't sue AFTER the fact that they already screwed up and a class action lawsuit is inevitable? Right... that's someone i'll keep doing business with. /sarcasm

Also i think everyone needs to relax and stop condensating on people.

Posted by Rekt_Hed

This story makes me want to not agree to the conditions just so I can sue sony....but that involves effort and uncharted 3 is pretty close sooooooooooo - eh - Think ill just blindly agree LIKE THE SHEEP I AM BAAAAAAHAHAH BAAAAAAAHHAHA

Good story though Pat hatrick

Posted by dagas

@xaLieNxGrEyx said:

IT'S A FUCKING VIDEO GAME CONSOLE PLAY ONLINE AND ENJOY YOURSELF YOU'LL NEVER SUE SONY FOR 1TRILLION DOLLARS AND BE RICH THIS IS SO FUCKING STUPID

It's not about being rich, it's about them making a good product. If they have no fear of a lawsuit then they can do whatever they want. It's a matter of taking responsibilty. What if the government said "Agree to our terms of service that we can screw you over as much as we want and you cannot do anything about it."

Suing is not about money, even if some people especially in the US seem to see it as a way of getting rich, it's about companies being responsible for their actions. When they step out of line they are sued. If no one can sue them, then they can do whatever the want.

Posted by kingzetta
@SeriouslyNow said:

@kingzetta said:

@SeriouslyNow: Bitchy condensation is not good karma either.

Condescension. I know, it's another big word.

See doesn't it feel good, now strike me down and complete your journey to the daaarthside.
Posted by SeriouslyNow

@kingzetta said:

@SeriouslyNow: Bitchy condensation is not good karma either.

Condescension. I know, it's another big word.

Posted by kingzetta
@SeriouslyNow: Bitchy condensation is not good karma either.
Edited by SeriouslyNow

@kingzetta said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@xaLieNxGrEyx said:

IT'S A FUCKING VIDEO GAME CONSOLE PLAY ONLINE AND ENJOY YOURSELF YOU'LL NEVER SUE SONY FOR 1TRILLION DOLLARS AND BE RICH THIS IS SO FUCKING STUPID

Yay for children who have access to technology. Our future is so bright. That was sarcasm. I need to clarify this because you come across as someone who is poorly educated and possibly mentally deficient.

Well come on you gotta see it from all angles. People freaking out about this is a little ridiculous. Are the people that bitch about this the same people that tried to sue over the "install other OS" being taken away? Are they still the same people that bitch about DLC?

Nobody is bitching about this and nobody is money grubbing over the idea of becoming rich from suing Sony. Class action suits rarely end in people being rich, mostly, if won, they end with the corporations having to offer some nominal amount per person which adds up to some arbitrary number which barely affects the running costs of that corporation for that year. People are being informed by a person whose job it is to inform them and some people are reacting to his work as if he's insulted them. I understand if some of the words I've used are big. I'm sorry.