Pretty much nobody even uses creditcards anymore where I live, and nothing of any importance is stored on my PSN, unless they want to steal my Ratchet and Clank savegames.

A dick move, sure, but it doesn't affect me personally.

Still, I suggest everyone who feels otherwise to immediately send out this letter.

@Atramentous said:

Less QQ, more QL.

Love this

Things like this are pretty much why Klepek's on the site. Good work man

@BenderUnit22 said:

I'm not American, so the concept of suing people and/or companies as I please still sounds ridiculous to me.

doesn't matter what country you're from. If you have any intelligence you can see that Sony trying to absolve themselves of legal ramification is bullshit.

I too think the trend of suing over every little thing is pathetic...but the law exists in regards to this for a reason. It's so companies can't get away with any fucking thing they want.

Thankfully this probably won't hold up in court. Not to any judge with a grip on reality.

I don't really foresee a time when I would sue a game console maker for any reason. It would be the equivalent of suing McDonald's for spilling their hot coffee on my crotch or getting fat from eating their food.

This is all just silly, and the fact that GB feels like it warrants a banner across the top of the site just makes it all the more silly.

Meh... I just wanna play some Uncharted online...agrees. Like most people are saying, this probably won't hold up in court.

Yay Europe! :D

@DigitalMystic said:

I'm just a student in law school who aced Contract Law last semester, but an online click-wrap agreement cannot make you fully waive any legitimate constitutional rights you have to legal remedy. Period.

Sony is simply including phrasing in their user agreement that matches the same kind of thing you accept every day from your electric company, phone company, bank, gas company, cell phone provider, credit card company, etc.

Where are the angry protests in the streets over the greed and injustice of so many American businesses and utilities operators, gamers? No, it's much more cool to shake our internet fists at Sony... perspective is everything, my gaming peers.

Right on. This is exactly where my thoughts went when all of this was getting reported on. At least new people are being informed about ToS/EULA's in general. It also reminds me...well...I don't even want to think about the crap I signed to be a contractor for Sony. It was just as hefty as the paperwork for my previous contract with Microsoft.

If there's anyone big enough of a douche bag to send in a letter please leave this site now.

Between this and Apple's incredibly intrusive contracts for developers we are in for a very dark digital future where all our greatest concerns could very well become true. This comes from someone who owns both platforms, do these companies learn anything from public outcry? I had no anger towards Sony regarding the hacking issue but seeing this shoddy covering of their collective asses is completely disgusting. Thank you Sony for making a crappy situation even worse. I guess I was stupid to expect better.

I'm surprised some of the Sony apologists on this site have taken to attacking Patrick Klepek for reporting on this. How is it inappropriate or fearmongering to do investigative journalism on this? Klepek is one of the few in the industry who believes in sourcing, fact checking and investigation rather than just regurgitating press releases and I'm grateful for it. Just because you identify personally with a soulless corporation to an unhealthy degree is no reason to shoot the messenger. I wonder how many of you bashing Klepek would have minded if it was MS he reported doing this...

We gotta sue someone!

It seems like Sony has always alienated their customers by seeming to just not give a shit about them, but this is just ridiculous.

So, as plenty of commenters have already pointed out by now, the TOS changes actually mean very little, and surely aren't worth the sensationalist fear-mongering and all the hateful comments. Last I checked, this wasn't Destructoid or Kotaku just yet.

I usually like your articles a lot, Patrick, but you do seem to get a little carried away on matters like this. First Nintendo gets a string of blatant flame-articles because they have the NERVE to show off a new optional peripheral, and now Sony's next on the cutting block? I'm all for informative articles, but stop writing them like the sky is falling, it reflects poorly on the site, in my opinion.

@Cyrisaurus said:

Newsflash, nobody lost their CC info from the PSN attacks, or suffered any long-term effects. So it would be best for people to move on, and just play some damn video games

But if they had, they would have every legal right to sue. This is a slimy move by Sony and it's pathetic that anyone could support it. Indifference, fine, but understanding at least

@patrickklepek In the template, in the top right, Arbitration is misspelled.

Thank you for the article and the template, sir.

I only agreed to the new ToS because I knew like an old man writing his Will on his dick, it would not stand up in court.

@xaLieNxGrEyx: How does not wanting to give up your rights make you a douche? People's idiotic love of Sony never ceases to amaze me.

Maybe I'm feeling especially apathetic today, but I don't think this is going to do/change much either way. All you are going to get is comments taking jabs at Sony. Or comments taking jabs at "Americans hur dur sue sue sue." I don't see many people caring in a months time. If it even takes that long for people to forget about it.

@BenderUnit22 said:

I'm not American, so the concept of suing people and/or companies as I please still sounds ridiculous to me.

i AM American and that concept sounds ridiculous to me too.

Thank you, Patrick.

while i think that sony doing this is lame, i think suing people is lamer

So, as plenty of commenters have already pointed out by now, the TOS changes actually mean very little, and surely aren't worth the sensationalist fear-mongering and all the hateful comments. Last I checked, this wasn't Destructoid or Kotaku just yet.

I usually like your articles a lot, Patrick, but you do seem to get a little carried away on matters like this. First Nintendo gets a string of blatant flame-articles because they have the NERVE to show off a new optional peripheral, and now Sony's next on the cutting block? I'm all for informative articles, but stop writing them like the sky is falling, it reflects poorly on the site, in my opinion.

I know that the implications of the agreement really have no bearing on my playing Bad Company 2. However, I do think that it's offensive to commit a massive goat fuck of a debacle and then create a contingency that ensures that they won't be held accountable if and when they next go to the farm. Legally it is inconsequential to me. I agree with the sentiments of many on here. Regardless, out of sheer principle, I'm sending the letter.

@Cyrisaurus said:

I clicked agree, and moved on. You know why? Because I just want to play games online. I don't have any intentions of going out of my way to try and sue some major company.

And you know what? I doubt anyone else does too. I guarantee you that 100% of the people who complain about this have no intentions of suing Sony (and probably don't own a PS3). Some people just like to bitch because they think "Hur I'm an American, you can't take my rights". If Sony issued a new ToS stating that you were not allowed to stab yourself in the eye with a fork, there would be thousands of people raging over the situation acting like Sony is evil, just like this situation.

Newsflash, nobody lost their CC info from the PSN attacks, or suffered any long-term effects. So it would be best for people to move on, and just play some damn video games

I don't get it, what's the problem everyone? You're probably not gonna sue them anyways...

i dont kow if its an american thing to get all up in arms when some of your rights are taken away, except of course if it is for national security then by all means get rid of them, but if sony wants to protect themselves from getting sued because someone else hacked their system then they should and anyone who sued or tried to sue sony for the hack then they are extremely misguided and should instead focus their efforts on trying to get governments to crack down on cyber crime. remember sony was a victim of the hack as much as any user if not more so, so dont judge them if they are trying to protect themselves because they got hacked then people tried to sue them instead of those actually responsible for the hack.

More than a response to the recent PSN outage, this is probably a direct response to the recent US Supreme Court verdicts in Walmart v. Dukes and AT&T v. Concepcion.

Both verdicts reaffirmed the legality of anti-Class Action clauses, and AT&T v. Concepcion maintained that Mandatory Arbitration clauses like this were legal. These rulings just came down in the last few months, and so, Sony most-likely saw that these added clauses will indeed hold up in any court in the United States. That is why they are focusing on the US for the moment. They know it won't face any legal challenge, as the verdicts so directly defend clauses like these.

The only surprising thing here is that they include any opt-out at all; they are not required to do so. Personally, I disagree with the Supreme Court decisions and dislike clauses like these, which are far too common today, but as far as US law goes, they are now quite legal and enforceable.

I'm surprised some of the Sony apologists on this site have taken to attacking Patrick Klepek for reporting on this. How is it inappropriate or fearmongering to do investigative journalism on this? Klepek is one of the few in the industry who believes in sourcing, fact checking and investigation rather than just regurgitating press releases and I'm grateful for it. Just because you identify personally with a soulless corporation to an unhealthy degree is no reason to shoot the messenger. I wonder how many of you bashing Klepek would have minded if it was MS he reported doing this...

@White_Silhouette said:

I know I choose not to play my PS3 online until sony changes the policy.. I'm also going to write a politely worded letter to any devs of PSN games that I want to play. Telling them they have lost a potential sale due Sony's current EULA

Everything you just said will be laughed at by sony and the dev's.

What is wrong with this? Did anyone get hurt in any way during the hacking? No.. No one did. Why are people so Butt hurt about this? Its not like Origin's EULA which is complete trash. Did anyone on here actually try a collective sue during that time? Did anyone even try to sue them at all on here? (I am not bitching about the letter, I am bitching about people being so butt hurt that they are getting angry about a new Agreement that has a loophole..)

It only does no lawsuits

@Buckfitches said:

So, as plenty of commenters have already pointed out by now, the TOS changes actually mean very little, and surely aren't worth the sensationalist fear-mongering and all the hateful comments. Last I checked, this wasn't Destructoid or Kotaku just yet.

I usually like your articles a lot, Patrick, but you do seem to get a little carried away on matters like this. First Nintendo gets a string of blatant flame-articles because they have the NERVE to show off a new optional peripheral, and now Sony's next on the cutting block? I'm all for informative articles, but stop writing them like the sky is falling, it reflects poorly on the site, in my opinion.

I could not agree more i don't know what the big deal is, because this really does not mean alot its just sony covering its butt. I believe it did say if both parties agree you can still  collectively sue. Sony just don't want a million angry hacker just sueing over linux just for the heck of it.  For most other normal case it will not change how you want to sue sony if that is your thing. But i agree on patrick he's a cool guy an all but he is throwing the hate on sony and nintendo pretty hard of late.

You guys sound like you're about to cry, maybe along with those stamps buy some tissues as well.

Good job Klepek, thanks for the heads up.

@Swoxx: If you have a valid lawsuit against Sony, this clause isn't going to do anything to stop you from suing them.

People are grossly misunderstanding what Sony is actually doing here and just assume they are being wronged in some way, and the way this article is written only adds fuel to the fire.

I still remember Jeff saying that this website was strictly about videogames, not about companies, business or flamewars.

@Buckfitches: I was only kidding around, you know.

@Afroman269 said:

I don't use my ps3 enough to care about all this but I think I'll send in a letter anyways. Thanks for the heads up, Patrick.

Couldn't have said it better.

Nice work.

Some people may not be fussed by this but Sony is trying to prevent any legal action against them at all as legally as they can. They know you and me taking legal action separately will get us know where.

What is worse is what this means, Companies basically blackmailing you into wanting to use their services. What else will they try and include in their TOS?

It is like Game boxes telling you that you agree to the terms and conditions by breaking the seal. The Terms though are inside the box!

@Buzzkill said:

Just popped on while I was taking a break from studying for a Physics test, and you provided a much needed laugh.

Thank you sir

Do I care? Do any of you seriously care about this? No? Good :)

In time, these click through EULAs will be struck down as unlawful, or forced to a twitter-like character limit. The way they are currently operating is contrary to the spirit of actually making an agreement between two parties. Press X or read 5 pages and send a letter - that's ludicrous.

If lawsuits are a matter of interest to you, I would recommend watching the Hot Coffee documentary. People have the right to sue because often disputes seem very different to each party based on their perspective.

Wrong form of "its," Patrick.

GOOD WORK PATRICK. I'll send my letter in tomorrow. Thanks for the excellent investigative journalism.

I'll be writing a letter. Currently not a PSN user, but was planning on rejoining to play Uncharted 3. Sad, because I'd also been intending to play LittleBigPlanet 2, and it's unfortunate that it'll take work to do this.

@lordgodalming said:

Why are people making such a stink about this? The EULAs for Valve and iTunes, for example, are way more intrusive than the PSN's. And anyway, if millions of people's credit cards got stolen again, the company would be held responsible again. Simple as that.

And you made us a template? Articles like this are pure fear-mongering. I love GB, but Mr. Klepek brings down the whole site.

How is it fear-mongering exactly? He simply reported on a change of the TOS in reaction to Sony latest breach. Knowing most people just simply agree to those TOS he is doing his job reporting it.

The thing you clearly don't realize is that Sony might be responsible for the money they lost, good luck on making your house payment, car payment, car insurance, cell phone bill, and others when you just lost all of your money in your checking because Sony got hacked again.

I'm sure it would take Sony longer than a month to get everyone's money back so missing those payments would cause your credit to drop. Now how is Sony going to make up for that? They are not going to. That is something you have to settle in court and good luck going up against Sony by yourself (which is what you are agreeing to in this tos) in court with no money, because they just lost it.

Isn't this semi-proof that Sony is fully expecting a massive security failure that would mobilize lots of class action suits? Despite making all manner of statements ensuring customers safety is top notch. It speaks to Sony's confidence level in their own security, if they can't protect users, they'll at least take steps to protect themselves from their users.

Sony decided to use Snail-Mail because they know the Government will close down the postal system before the opt-out deadline is up, making the decision for you in their favor. Evil companies will be evil, and sheeple will be sheeple.

PSN account, is that like... my username or is there an account number?

Man, this is fucked up. On the other hand, I have enough problems to worry about, so I really don't care.

Note also that small-claims filings are exempt. That means you could sue them yourself for 5 grand and win due to them not bothering to show up.

@TruthTellah said:

More than a response to the recent PSN outage, this is probably a direct response to the recent US Supreme Court verdicts in Walmart v. Dukes and AT&T v. Concepcion.

Both verdicts reaffirmed the legality of anti-Class Action clauses, and AT&T v. Concepcion maintained that Mandatory Arbitration clauses like this were legal. These rulings just came down in the last few months, and so, Sony most-likely saw that these added clauses will indeed hold up in any court in the United States. That is why they are focusing on the US for the moment. They know it won't face any legal challenge, as the verdicts so directly defend clauses like these.

The only surprising thing here is that they include any opt-out at all; they are not required to do so. Personally, I disagree with the Supreme Court decisions and dislike clauses like these, which are far too common today, but as far as US law goes, they are now quite legal and enforceable.

@Buckfitches The new TOS changes mean a lot. TruthTellah is right on the money. The Supreme Court strengthened arbitration in AT&T vs Concepcion and Sony is now taking full advantage of that. Patrick's article is showing you how to retain your class action rights.

Class action lawsuits are there to punish companies that "fuck-it-up-big-time", and the pro-corporation trolls sitting on the Supreme Court have now made it more difficult to go that route.