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Posted by AnjinM

I am constantly and repeatedly disheartened by the gaming community. I would like to raise my (almost one year old) daughter to be a gamer like her dad, but not if this is what she has to look forward to.

Posted by doublezeroduck

I like watching Phoenix get raped though.

Posted by Zaxex

@Targie: I agree that Super Yan didn't handle the situation perfectly and that Jared isn't the ideal spokesperson for the toning down of the scene; but that said, I don't think their views are less important because they aren't the best examples of their beliefs.

I could do without the stuff that isn't really acceptable elsewhere; i.e. the racism, the sexism, the homophobia etc etc. I get that these are just real people doing as they wish, but if they want to legitimize the scene and have it grow and be more fiscally viable maybe they don't need to be dicks constantly.

Posted by BlazeHedgehog

This sums up what needs to change pretty well:
 

Rea: Can I get my Street Fighter without sexual harassment?
Bakhtanians: You can’t.

 
I can't believe anybody would cling to "sexual harassment" as something that's important to a community. The hell's wrong with you, man.
Edited by Chibithor

@joshrholloway said:

@AxleFGK said:

i still love Aris. he was kidding, and if you've ever seen anything with him in it he's always like that.

Every single defense of Aris, including his own, seems to say "he's always a jerk, no one should be surprised."

Really?!

Yeah man, you can't play basketball with a football, so Aris can be a jerk and sexism is cool because this ain't North Korea you know. Hmm, wait, on second thought that makes no sense at all.

Shame how nobody wants to reply to Patrick though. :(

Posted by jasondesante

@Pinworm45: "Trust me, I don't have to work very hard to prove I'm smarter than you."

I wrote a comment on this article. You sent an @ reply to tell me how dumb you think I am and how wrong you think I am and to bring up other things that contradict yourself.

There are people that write comments and there are trolls who only reply to others to talk down to them.

Leave me alone please.

Posted by Deusoma
@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@McQuinn said:

Aris is the captain because he is the biggest supporter of the 3D fighting game community. He is definitely an ass, but he does it jokingly and not insultingly although pretty blunt and childish. Making fun of people is a part of the fighting game community and it is there to build competition and hype. Everyone knew Aris was going to act like that. Sherry, the other female contestant, looked quite pissed that Miranda forfeited.

Why is being an intolerate asshole part of the FGC? Why can't people be respectful of others and treat everyone fairly? I'm not saying you can't rib each other, but you don't have to be an complete asshole when you do it. Your comments shouldn't make someone else feel uncomfortable. Giving the dude a pass because he's joking and does it to everyone isn't acceptable. Saying it as a joke does not automatically make it okay to say. If thats how the community operates, why would anyone ever want to become a part of it?

He does treat everyone fairly. he smacktalks to everyone equally. It's part of his scene.

Being horrible to everyone may be "being fair" inasmuch that it's balanced, but it is absolutely not "treating people fairly"; treating a person fairly means to treat them with respect and dignity. The fact that he is an asshole to everyone instead of just to some people doesn't negate the fact that he's still an asshole. WilliamHenry was absolutely correct.
Edited by darkdragonmage99

The first amendment was designed specifically to protect even the most heinous neo nazi speech and the painfull brather of idiotic tree huggers. You don't need a law to protect popular speech no one is afraid micky mouse is going to be cencord our founding fathers knew that limiting speech in any way gives the goverment to much power.  


 
Just to make my stance on this and any matter involving someone saying something people don't like clear.
Posted by pekoe212

@Pinworm45 said:

@jasondesante said:

some homo virgin rips on girls because he is fat and hideous and half retarded. Just put him in a corner and let him have his tantrum. Girls that play fighting games are just as cool as guys that play fighting games. Trash talk in fighting games is a last resort for those who aren't comfortable playing the game.

He insults men just as much as girls.. just no one gives a shit about that. People have to white knight girls, which is sexist itself, because it's implying that women can't handle trash talk, which apparently this one couldn't. Pretty fucking ironic that you proceed to call this guy a "homo virgin" who can't get girls because he is fat, as if that is somehow any less sexist than anything he has ever said. it is in fact more sexist, because his "sexism" was merely gendered insults like "bitch".

The difference to me, is that usually men are insulted for not being "man" enough, i.e. being like a woman. And a woman is insulted for....being a woman. That's why it can really hurt sometimes. That my membership in the other 50% of the population can be used as an "insult" against me, a "weakness," you can't really dismiss someone's worth at a more basic level.

Posted by Mr_Skeleton

Playing Dota has taught me to ignore insults and how to bury my hurt feelings.

Posted by MasturbatingestBear

Wow, I've never watched a lot of fighting game live streams. Is sexism and casual racism a common part of their culture? I really had no clue about that. I thought most of the people would be pretty chill.

Edited by Pinworm45

@WilliamHenry said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@McQuinn said:

Aris is the captain because he is the biggest supporter of the 3D fighting game community. He is definitely an ass, but he does it jokingly and not insultingly although pretty blunt and childish. Making fun of people is a part of the fighting game community and it is there to build competition and hype. Everyone knew Aris was going to act like that. Sherry, the other female contestant, looked quite pissed that Miranda forfeited.

Why is being an intolerate asshole part of the FGC? Why can't people be respectful of others and treat everyone fairly? I'm not saying you can't rib each other, but you don't have to be an complete asshole when you do it. Your comments shouldn't make someone else feel uncomfortable. Giving the dude a pass because he's joking and does it to everyone isn't acceptable. Saying it as a joke does not automatically make it okay to say. If thats how the community operates, why would anyone ever want to become a part of it?

He does treat everyone fairly. he smacktalks to everyone equally. It's part of his scene.

Ok, so because he does it to everyone then its perfectly ok? It doesn't matter if he's a total asshole, as long as he's one to everyone, right? Being an asshole to everyone still means he is being an asshole. Doing it to everyone doesn't make it okay. Why can't he be respectful of everyone? He can still rib them but he doesn't have to be a total asshole about it. Like I said before, his comments shouldn't make anyone else feel uncomfortable, and its plainly obvious that they do. If you want to rib someone, then fine, but you don't have to be cruel.

I don't think you actually know anything he said. This article is pretty sensationalist and everything he says is in jest - hardly "cruel" or being a "total asshole". No one else is offended by him except this one person, who couldn't handle something that IS part of their culture and scene. How do you draw the line between "ribbing someone" and "going to far" when someone having skin that's too thin is a factor? Why should he and his group change their attitudes to accommodate one person who can't handle it? Why should he change who he is because one person got offended by it? he doesn't want his group watered down in political correctness, why would you force that upon him? I often talk shit with my Guild that I've played tons of games, if you joined it and told us to be "nicer" we'd laugh ourselves senseless at your entitlement and desire to PC everything. I expect you'd feel similiar if I did something like that to one of your groups of friends.

Posted by dream431ca

@jrsmaster411: Does it really matter if he's nice or not. So because he's "nice" means that he can spout any shit he wants and get away with it?? People like him have to really learn to shut their mouths sometimes.

Posted by heatDrive88

The only reason this gets attention is because there's no equivalent public airing/streaming of the homophobia, racism, and flame-baiting that goes on in the voice chat of almost any multiplayer Call of Duty game.

But hey, what do you expect from a bunch of criminally-retarded grognards who still haven't become mature adults yet.

Posted by Junpei

As someone who has gotten into the fighting scene a lot over the past 2 years I can say that this is not the vibe I get. Yeah, there is language. It's a competitive group who likes to trash talk. Sexism on the other hand and sexual harassment on the other doesn't seem to be a problem from the outside looking in from my perspective. I think Aris's point was that you either take the community as a whole or you leave it. They don't want the fighting game scene they have built watered down by the eSports image and political correctness. At the same time there are women in the scene that are competitive and really good. Choco Blanka being the front runner for that in my opinion. Everyone that just starts is gonna get some shit talked on them, man or woman. You need to earn the respect of the community.

Don't get me wrong, I think what he said is wrong and incredibly dumb and mis-representative of the community, but everyone is gonna get trash talked and "harassed" by some players until you prove your worth. Not just women.

Online
Posted by joshrholloway

@AxleFGK said:

i still love Aris. he was kidding, and if you've ever seen anything with him in it he's always like that.

Every single defense of Aris, including his own, seems to say "he's always a jerk, no one should be surprised."

Really?!

Posted by HorseFactory

I thoroughly enjoyed Bakhtanians' backtracking and shitty excuses.

'Well, y'know something man, I did murder someone, but I mean, I didn't really do it because fighting games.'

Posted by Plasma

You've kinda taken one guy from the show that everyone disagrees with and blown it up Patrick, but I guess that's what journalists do.

Could have at least talked about her twitter being overloaded with positive comments from MANY people in the FGC having her back completely.

Aris tars the FGC with one brush, but each scene from each city, and even multiple scenes within a city will be radically different. Just happens Aris is in some sexist, trash talking scene where everyone mocks everyone.

Posted by AxleBro

i still love Aris. he was kidding, and if you've ever seen anything with him in it he's always like that.

Posted by soundlug

@Targie: Again, being passionate or say "He didn't mean" are good excuses, that just mean that he talked before actually thinking

Posted by TeflonBilly

I've never cared much for Aris. He seems like a lame douchebag.

However, this whole article is sensationalist garbage with a lot of nice cherrypicking of quotes and covert editoralizing. C'mon Patrick, you are better than this. Your articles are your shining beacon and this is Kotaku level crap.

Posted by mbr2

@Discorsi said:

E SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS... AAAAAaAaAaAAAaAAAaAaaAaaaAA.

Please don't call fighting games ESports. They clearly don't want it and me neither.

Edited by ItBeStefYo

What he says IS WRONG but sort of makes sense in what fighting games do...

Absolutely disgusting behaviour though. Feel so sorry for the poor girl.

Posted by JackSukeru

Huh, fun read! Glad I'm not invested in any of this, seems like a mess.

Edited by CornBREDX

Ya, that sounds like most competitive gaming which is what holds most all of it back from being popular form entertainment. 
 
While I agree with him people get to emotional about some words used, the majority of the language used in most multiplayer fighting clicks and even in FPS' is childish and not sporting at all. The thing missing is the respect and responsible tone to it all. This is one reason why StarCraft leagues are popular enough to be on TV somewhere in the world, and has a decent size audience. This is why most do not want to play with other people online in general as well (especially on consoles- just a perception not a fact nor a hit at the console gaming crowd as a whole).  
 
Even if I would speak one way with a friend I have more respect then that to talk to someone I don't know in a crass way. I do speak my mind, but there's a responsible way to do so. I also don't think using racial slurs is ever cool. 
Just my opinion though.

Posted by WilliamHenry

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@McQuinn said:

Aris is the captain because he is the biggest supporter of the 3D fighting game community. He is definitely an ass, but he does it jokingly and not insultingly although pretty blunt and childish. Making fun of people is a part of the fighting game community and it is there to build competition and hype. Everyone knew Aris was going to act like that. Sherry, the other female contestant, looked quite pissed that Miranda forfeited.

Why is being an intolerate asshole part of the FGC? Why can't people be respectful of others and treat everyone fairly? I'm not saying you can't rib each other, but you don't have to be an complete asshole when you do it. Your comments shouldn't make someone else feel uncomfortable. Giving the dude a pass because he's joking and does it to everyone isn't acceptable. Saying it as a joke does not automatically make it okay to say. If thats how the community operates, why would anyone ever want to become a part of it?

He does treat everyone fairly. he smacktalks to everyone equally. It's part of his scene.

Ok, so because he does it to everyone then its perfectly ok? It doesn't matter if he's a total asshole, as long as he's one to everyone, right? Being an asshole to everyone still means he is being an asshole. Doing it to everyone doesn't make it okay. Why can't he be respectful of everyone? He can still rib them but he doesn't have to be a total asshole about it. Like I said before, his comments shouldn't make anyone else feel uncomfortable, and its plainly obvious that they do. If you want to rib someone, then fine, but you don't have to be cruel.

Edited by SM5240

What an incredibly disheartening story, and what an incredibly brainless dolts this Aris guy has made himself out to be. Seeing him stumble as he tries to argue that sexism is essential to the fighting game community is fucking embarrassing, especially when he uses that poorly-conceived basketball analogy in his defense. The fact that sexist bullshit like this is happening is bad enough, but to argue that it's integral to the experience? It makes me fucking sick.

@gave1 said:

Bakhtanians: Well, you know, there are layers here, if you think about this. There are layers of ethics. There are people who are racist and commit hate crimes, right? And then there are people who are racist but they have tons of friends of all colors and they have deep love for those friends. Do you think those people are one and the same? Absolutely not.

I don't think he knows what the word racist actually means. What a dipshit!

Yeah, I had to look over that line multiple times just to be sure I had read it correctly. His stupidity shows no bounds!

Posted by Sooty
@LaserLambert said:

well fighting games are dead now.

Oh yes Evo 2012 is cancelled because of this, let's all listen to this guy, he knows what's up!
Posted by BelowStupid

this is what you get when a bunch of 15-20 year old boys play video games on a semi professional level.

Posted by Lagaroth

Why do gamers have to be assholes at all? You can be plenty competitive without resorting to insults or racist/sexist jokes.

Posted by UltimAXE

Nice to see an article about this. I haven't been following Cross Assault at all, then this story breaks today and I have no idea what's going on.

But, seriously, you're insane if you think that this is special. I mean, hell, if you want to tackle sexual harassment, you need to go way, way broader than the FGC because that sure as shit isn't where this kind of language begins and ends. You may as well call out gamers in general, then move into sports, the military, and then the entire country (world?). Men, in general, are dirt bags when in each other's company. It's definitely moronic to say that this is some kind of staple of the fighting game scene that has to be there, but getting super worked up about the issue seems a little crazy.

Posted by Pinworm45

@jasondesante said:

@Pinworm45: wahh you're whining because I called the sexist a closeted virgin and called him fat because hes fat and caled him half retarded because hes half retarded.....wahhhhhhhh someone insulted someone else because they deserved it, so I'm going to call them sexist and whine at them because I can't form my own opinion, so I just reply to someone else and tell them something thats pointless and try to prove to a stranger that I'm smarter than them by accusing them of something they never did. YAYYYYYY.

Trust me, I don't have to work very hard to prove I'm smarter than you. All I need to do is read your terribly, terribly written paragraph that's bordering on nonsensical, and I smile with smug satisfaction.

Posted by dream431ca

If I was the manager of that show that was airing the game and I heard stuff like that, I would immediately ban that stupid bitch from playing at any other TV fighting game show. Not only is it hurting the community, it's hurting the games and their overall image to the public. If they don't make an example of him, they're basically saying "we don't mind that sexual harassment is part of the fighting game community, and we don't give a shit either". It's a shame.

Posted by Sergeant_Stubby

@RazielCuts said:

@Sergeant_Stubby said:

say what you wanna say... who gives a fuck.... if i offend someone then i really dont give a shit, im for free speech and if that means some of my comments hurt peoples feelings O fucking well.

you're adopted.

could be... will never know unless my parents decide to tell me otherwise.

Posted by Zaxex

When I saw the blowup I wasn't sure how the news stories would turn out. I've got to say this is really in depth; and you've certainly got a good deal of information in a short amount of time.

Aris' behaviour is unacceptable; and he's right about the FGC. I love fighting games; but the community is fucking terrible, watch a stream and read the chat; racist, sexist, homophobic and generally hateful content abound. I think it's probably something psychological that attracts people to fighting games that causes the attitudes.

I love watching tournaments and other fighting game streams, but the streams are about the least pleasant part of the internet I subject myself to. I feel bad for Capcom and Spooky; they put a lot of effort and risk into the show and it's been a pretty unfortunate affair.

I find the FGC generally embarrassing. I wouldn't want to show any of my friends the streams; the chat is one thing, but the commentators are commonly similarly childish. I really like the games and I want the scene to grow and include a larger variety of people; but some of this shit needs to go. The best of the FGC; the tournament hype and general friendly competition doesn't benefit from the insular nature of some of its members. And in the FGC the most welcoming, liberal people still accept the shit that goes on.

If the scene grows up I would be much happier considering myself a part of it.

Posted by McQuinn
@BrianP

Edit: It's crazy to me that someone would believe sexism and sexual harassment is so integral to the way they interact with other human beings, that if you took it away it would fundamentally change the nature of the community (and even more crazy to think that it would make it WORSE as that dude seems to imply)

@Seroth ugh thank you for knowing what happened. Everyone here has no clue who these people are. This article just makes the FGC look bad when it doesn't deserve it :/
Posted by Figyg

Rea: Can I get my Street Fighter without sexual harassment?

Umm...When you make a Street Fighter that is not conducive to sexual harassment, maybe you can...

I mean, look at this cammy pic for goodness sake. How can you make a product like this and act like you are surprised when there is sexual harassment. I seriously hate how women are portrayed in these games, and when someone from the eSports community is influenced by images that they are being payed to look at, Capcom gets all "WOMEN ARE EQUAL AS LONG AS THEY HAVE HUGE BOOBS".

Give me a break

Posted by joshrholloway

I'm listening to the audio that a few people in these comments have linked to in defense of Aris, and I don't see how this is supposed to be a defense at all. He seems like he's purposely making himself look like a jerk.

Posted by Discorsi

E SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS... AAAAAaAaAaAAAaAAAaAaaAaaaAA.

Posted by mbr2

@Seroth said:

@LaserLambert said:

well fighting games are dead now.

I think you mean esports.

The FGC don't want to be associated with ESports (which is fine by me) so no.

Posted by Goldanas

I'm all for good-natured ribbing, but there is a line. Making sexual remarks like "I want to know your bra-size" to a chick during a match is kind of fucked up. If you want to call her stupid, a dumb bitch, or make yo momma jokes centered around her play, sure, that's perfectly fine. Dude's in the scene do this to one another and it's all good and no one should be upset by all this.

But dude's don't say to one another, "Yo man, I wanna' know your dick size!" That would be over the line in a public venue. In your own private time, do whatever is suitable to your crowd.

Really the big problem here isn't the harassment so much as it is the ignorance on his part. If he was offensive but at least came to reason and realized what he said was rude and defamatory, then that would be understandable. It would be about acceptance then. But instead he defends his words with ridiculous similes that are outright incompatible.

This idiocy isn't new in any sports related field. Fuck if I had a dollar for every time any athlete in any field made some gross remark about the opposite sex, I'd be as rich as all of them combined. These are a thinking man's games, and they shouldn't devolve into bouts of "say whatever the fuck you want!"

Again, good-natured ribbing with some swearing is fine by me, but we need to know the line (with anybody).

Posted by Itwastuesday

hats off to dr. sub zero

Posted by shadowboxer

Yeah this is pretty bad. Not new to gamers, but still sad.

Posted by longstarrr

Staged.

Posted by algertman

@Pinworm45 said:

@jasondesante said:

some homo virgin rips on girls because he is fat and hideous and half retarded. Just put him in a corner and let him have his tantrum. Girls that play fighting games are just as cool as guys that play fighting games. Trash talk in fighting games is a last resort for those who aren't comfortable playing the game.

He insults men just as much as girls.. just no one gives a shit about that. People have to white knight girls, which is sexist itself, because it's implying that women can't handle trash talk, which apparently this one couldn't. Pretty fucking ironic that you proceed to call this guy a "homo virgin" who can't get girls because he is fat, as if that is somehow any less sexist than anything he has ever said. it is in fact more sexist, because his "sexism" was merely gendered insults like "bitch".

He probably can't get girls because he smells horrible. Fighting game tourneys are filled with people who refuse to take a bath. It's pretty disgusting.

Posted by depecheload

The next time someone tells you that nerd culture is full of entitled white males and you want to disagree, remember this bullshit.

Posted by Vortextk

Sounds like this guy plays dota, or any number of the clones. I mute everyone's mics and the first instance of "omg you stupid piece of shit blah blah blah" I ignore them ingame too. It's not funny, it's not fun, shut the hell up and act like the adult you probably are. Sounds like a low life from what little I read here.
 
Hey, Jeff calls it in all of his videos about idiot old men and video games right? They'll eventually die and maybe if fighting games mean a damn in 40 years this won't have to be a part of it then.

Posted by JJOR64

Kinda surprised this made Giant Bomb.

#eSports #STAGED #8.95

Edited by jasondesante

@Pinworm45: wahh you're whining because I called the sexist a closeted virgin and called him fat because hes fat and caled him half retarded because hes half retarded.....to accuse me of being sexist because I called this homo a homo, cool.

But then you mention white knighting and implying that girls can't take trash talk and then make the example that the one girl fits under that category.

The pot is calling the kettle black. next time just stfu and don't reply.