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Posted by outerabiz

Let me preface this by saying, sexism is bad.

"Previously, however, he did have his own personal Twitter account. What’s listed in his bio?

“Fuck you.”"

That ruined the whole article for me, that might be because i skimmed it and read that part before i read the whole thing, but it makes the article seem more like an opinion piece than any sort of real journalism, even though the journalistic workings and methods are there.

Sorry, im not a hater just pointing out something that stuck out to me.

Posted by optimusprime223

apart from lack of skill, this makes me NOT want to play fighting games and be part of that community...

Posted by Gruff182

Oh, so the fighting game community is pathetic? Good to know.

Posted by Zaxex

Realistically I think Aris has done more to ruin other peoples' experiences than his own. Spooky had a huge opportunity to work with Capcom and I think it'll be the last time that happens. He was instrumental in making Miranda want to leave a contest that offered $25,000, and the bad publicity alone will probably see the company refuse any such future risks.

The show is pretty flawed, but there might be potential in it; they will definitely sell some copies of the game because of the show.

I really would like the scene to grow and become more inclusive; and less incredibly fucking internet stupid. That said, I don't see much changing yet; especially when the closest it got has pretty much gone horribly for all involved.

I don't go to tournaments, so I'm only really interested in the FGC for entertainment, and information about the games. I'll probably keep doing what I have been, which is hiding the chat pretty much immediately when I open a fighting game stream, muting streams when the commentators decide to get racist and rolling my eyes whenever I inevitably hear or read something fucking stupid.

Posted by actionTACO

@Mechabolic said:

@NoelVeiga: Civilized? Really? The majority of posts have been "Screw that jerk! How dare he!" and have a general witchhunt vibe to it. Anyone that disagrees with the majority are instantly called nasty things. This is far from civilized.

you're the one that waded into this thread and implied that posters that disagreed with you were angry, simpleminded, hypocrites that simply couldn't see the shades of grey with regards to someone making incredibly sexist remarks. not only that, but you also implied that the victim was "crying sexism" because she got her feelings hurt cause she's just some ~~*GaMeR GuRl*~~ that can't handle the pressure and not because, ya know, maybe she thought the dude was being sexist. then you have the gall to accuse people of trying to make "mountains out of mole hills" and accuse patrick of writing this article simply to stir up controversy and generate some MAD SITE HITTZZ.

you have continuously tried to attach spurious motivations to various groups and people in an sloppy attempt to deligitimize criticisms of someone that you seem to be emotionally attached to, for whatever reason. maybe you should look in the mirror before you accuse people of not being civil. or, at least, stop pretending to be some ultra-rational, independent free thinker that sees "the real picture" and is awashed in a sea of hyper-emotional, close minded, PC-minded people. basically, stop pretending to be stan in an episode of south park.

of course, instead you will probably just continue to argue your point harder. then, after enough people have told you that you're wrong, you'll make a parting shot or complain that people are being too rude, or bitch about "group think" and "political correctness" some more.

Posted by myslead

I have no idea what's going on

Posted by DocOc

saying SH is acceptable anywhere is shameful. So when Aris tries to explain it to be as something casual for him disturbs me. He can say the fight game community, but from the first video he seems to be the advocate.

Posted by YukoAsho

@Heartagram said:

Aris has always been like this from every single stream He has Been on. I wouldn't take any of his opinions as legitimate. I remember him talking about how he was going to ride away on his donkey on one stream because he was middle eastern. He's just a bit of a prick and I have no idea how he got to be the team tekken leader unless the people at capcom had literally no idea who he was.

Pretty much. Creepy mother fucker 100%

Posted by august

@Mechabolic: I don't think you know what irony means if you're sugesting we treat a man who is actively defending sexual harrasment with kid gloves.

Posted by OptimalPower

After reading through most of the comments, I still cannot comprehend how people can defend this guy.

Doesn't matter if his comments were in jest. Go try saying these things to someone and see what happens.

Edited by Heartagram

Aris has always been like this from every single stream He has Been on. I wouldn't take any of his opinions as legitimate. I remember him talking about how he was going to ride away on his donkey on one stream because he was middle eastern. He's just a bit of a prick and I have no idea how he got to be the team tekken leader unless the people at capcom had literally no idea who he was.

Posted by NoelVeiga

@Mechabolic said:

@NoelVeiga: What's that? Since you agree with the majority of the posts so it's ok? I don't think you know what irony means. Either way, i'm done with this political deb- er, discussion. Thanks for sensationalizing this molehill Patrick...

No, I meant that it's ironic that you find the tone of the debate lacking while also defending Aris' behaviour. Seems like a bit of a contradiction to me. Most people in the thread have stopped short of personally offensive stuff (not everyone, of course), which is what we're talking about in the first place. Hence, irony.

And Patrick's article is not sensationalist, really. It's pretty well researched and it quotes every side of the argument. It's not on him to avoid posting stuff that will cause debate, his job is to report thoroughly and fairly, and he's done that much.

Posted by Mechabolic

@NoelVeiga: What's that? Since you agree with the majority of the posts so it's ok? I don't think you know what irony means. Either way, i'm done with this political deb- er, discussion. Thanks for sensationalizing this molehill Patrick...

Posted by Jethuty

@Hailinel said:

@Jethuty said:

@Hailinel
@Jethuty
Just to clarify, Aris is a part of the tekken community, not the fighting game community. Its two seperate scenes, tekken/3d fighters and 2d fighters to be exact. If anything he represents them, not the bigger scene.
That distinction is pretty much the definition of bullshit. Tekken is a fighting game, therefore anyone competitively associated with it is part of the FGC. The community as a whole needs to wash their hands of morons like Aris regardless of the individual games or series they compete in.
Its not. You dont lump bf3/quake players witg cod players, and you dont blame the hon community for some shit a lol player did. Only thing thats bullshit is your pointed finger. The tekken community and the 2d community is two different things. Also stop blaming the community for the actions of one idiot. I dont go blaming the gb community because of your stupid comments, and neither should i.

They're all fighting games. From a distance, the specifics of which games are which don't matter. The FGC is comprised off all of the cliques and subcultures devoted to specific games and styles, whether it be 2D or 3D. It might look different to those down on the surface, but from up high, where people who are on the outside looking in, it's really all the same. Even more so considering that this supposed Tekken guy got in trouble for his antics at an event sponsored by Capcom devoted to the promotion of a Street Fighter-style game that just happens to feature Tekken characters.

So please, spare me the bullshit that Aris is specific to the Tekken community. He's not.

He is, what part of the arguement is it that you dont understand. The whole point of the cross assualt program was to try and get 2 different communities to fight. If you knew anything about what you were talking about, and not just looking at the surface as you said yourself, you would know the communities are vastly different. You're making generalizations that doesnt work. I could as well just say he is making the gaming community look bad, because its all games right? they are all the same from a distance, the specifics of the game doesnt matter, i mean, its played on a tv with a controller right? so yeah he speaks for our whole community, gb, moba/fps and fighting games a like. your mentality is part of the problem why games are percieved the way they are by the general public, and frankly thats bullshit.

my arguements still stands, stop generalizing.

Posted by Hardiharr

@NoelVeiga: Good Lord, how is this not the last word in this sordid, depressing "debate"? It was a great article. Aris may be a saint otherwise, but his opinions evidenced during the commentary are pretty thoroughly reprehensible, and it's hard to judge him by anything other than his words and actions in a given circumstance.

Edited by NoelVeiga

@Mechabolic said:

@NoelVeiga: Civilized? Really? The majority of posts have been "Screw that jerk! How dare he!" and have a general witchhunt vibe to it. Anyone that disagrees with the majority are instantly called nasty things. This is far from civilized.

I... really hope you get how ironic that post is.

But nope, that's not my experience of the thread. It's interesting to see how perspective filters perception, though.

Posted by Mechabolic

@linus_south: THANK YOU! An intelligent post in this sea of hate. I came here to unwind and end up in this sh*tstorm.

Posted by linus_south

I'm a really big fan of this site. I am also, A very big stream monster, A dinosaur of the old arcade scene and, I really wish you would of just sat down and watched the full stream from each practice session. I watched it all and, there's a bunch of stuff that is cut out to paint a worse picture than what really went on. I am not going to harp on that and, I'm not defending anyone for running their mouth when they don't need to. But, I am going to say I'm very sad that this story is on giantbomb in this way.

Posted by Mechabolic

@NoelVeiga: Civilized? Really? The majority of posts have been "Screw that jerk! How dare he!" and have a general witchhunt vibe to it. Anyone that disagrees with the majority are instantly called nasty things. This is far from civilized.

Edited by Brackynews

@KoolAidMan said:

@TruthTellah said:

This is a real shame. I've quite enjoyed Bakhtanians' commentary during tournaments for a while now, but he is quite wrong on this.

People certainly have a right to say whatever they like, but tournaments and eSports also have the right to enforce their own standards of conduct within a tournament environment. And language like this is simply unacceptable. High-level fight gaming does not need to be held back by things like this; instead, people should perhaps start acting like adults and take responsibility for their actions. Trash talking is one thing, but harassing someone and alienating people from feeling welcome in the fight scene isn't right. And if fight gaming plans on continuing its eSports rise, standards for how people act in tournaments must be encouraged and enforced for the betterment of the sport and the fighting game community at large.

QFT

No, QFTT -- Quoted From TruthTellah! Damn straight.

I can only wonder, imagine if Aris was the community manager for Twitch.tv, instead of Jared. (And one step further, let's say Twitch didn't fire Aris for these comments.) What state would the community OR the professional scene be in with locker room leadership like that? Jared can throw down and troll with the best of 'em, but he's aware enough to be asking the questions of what's appropriate for a venue.

The guy who taught me how to play Street Fighter II at the arcade when *I* was 15? One of the tallest, nicest and most respected dudes there. Other punks would talk some mess, and he would hadouken the smirks off their face. Shit went down at arcades, I have my own stories, I got my bruises. But that's the testosterone and braggadocio of immature kids who hate going home to face their parents, not a damn culture of delinquency that we can't grow out of.

Posted by NoelVeiga

@Mechabolic said:

@NoelVeiga: No, by all means, he can write whatever he wants. Though when writing something like this he should know he was opening up a nasty can of worms.

But one that needs opening. Gaming "communities" have a bit too much license for people to be assholes to each other as a form of entertainment. You change that by calling it out and having this conversation. Say what you will about the "nasty", but most people have been civilized here and presented rational arguments. This is moving the state of gaming forward, and it wouldn't happen without the original article.

Posted by Mechabolic

@Hailinel: Cool opinion bro. I've seen the guy more than the clip that is on this article so I can see him as more than a "dirty, hillbilly, neckbeard, jerk, misogynistic asshole" that everyone seems to be yelling at here. The irony is palpable.

Posted by YukoAsho

@thebrassthief said:

Wow. The ignorance this guy is showing makes my head hurt, from the basketball/football metaphor to what he thinks racism is. Capcom picked this guy up to do something for them? Like, under their name? What a mistake.

You know there are guys at Capcom who're like "Hey, thanks for fuckin' up the PR."

Posted by Mechabolic

@NoelVeiga: No, by all means, he can write whatever he wants. Though when writing something like this he should know he was opening up a nasty can of worms.

Posted by Hailinel

@Mechabolic said:

@Hailinel: Though everyone loves a villain so I can see why everyone wants to make him out to be this horrible misogynistic asshole.

He doesn't need help to do that. He's done a fine enough job of that on his own.

Posted by NoelVeiga

@Mechabolic said:

@NoelVeiga: Cool sarcasm. Though you have to admit, from a website standpoint, this article is gold. Look at dat post count! I can only imagine the hit count!

So? Should Patrick only write boring stuff so that people won't watch it?

Hell, this should be boring stuff. People should have seen this and gone "yeah, what an idiot" and moved on. Instead, we have a 1000 post thread of people defending this stuff while others attack it. That doesn't spell out "clickbait" to me, it spells out "gamers are still not aware that they're not alone in the boys' room anymore".

Posted by Hailinel

@Jethuty said:

@Hailinel
@Jethuty
Just to clarify, Aris is a part of the tekken community, not the fighting game community. Its two seperate scenes, tekken/3d fighters and 2d fighters to be exact. If anything he represents them, not the bigger scene.
That distinction is pretty much the definition of bullshit. Tekken is a fighting game, therefore anyone competitively associated with it is part of the FGC. The community as a whole needs to wash their hands of morons like Aris regardless of the individual games or series they compete in.
Its not. You dont lump bf3/quake players witg cod players, and you dont blame the hon community for some shit a lol player did. Only thing thats bullshit is your pointed finger. The tekken community and the 2d community is two different things. Also stop blaming the community for the actions of one idiot. I dont go blaming the gb community because of your stupid comments, and neither should i.

They're all fighting games. From a distance, the specifics of which games are which don't matter. The FGC is comprised off all of the cliques and subcultures devoted to specific games and styles, whether it be 2D or 3D. It might look different to those down on the surface, but from up high, where people who are on the outside looking in, it's really all the same. Even more so considering that this supposed Tekken guy got in trouble for his antics at an event sponsored by Capcom devoted to the promotion of a Street Fighter-style game that just happens to feature Tekken characters.

So please, spare me the bullshit that Aris is specific to the Tekken community. He's not.

Edited by Mechabolic

@Hailinel: He would stop because if anyone has actually seen him talk before then you know he is respectful IF you actually tell him that he is pissing you off. See last year's EVO. Though everyone loves a villain so I can see why everyone wants to make him out to be this horrible misogynistic asshole.

Posted by NoelVeiga

@Mechabolic said:

@NoelVeiga: That's the problem though. If you make exceptions for her then you need to make exceptions for EVERYONE that might get upset at what you might say. You can see how that can become a slippery slope.

Wait, what? No, you are not making "exceptions". It's not "I'll be extremely offensive and make boob and rape jokes to women except to this one who is hurt by them", it's "maybe I won't be an asshole anymore". There's no slippery slope, there's not being an asshole.

Plus, this is not censorship. Again. He's not going to jail or getting fined or hurt. He's being told off by people who listened to what he said and didn't like it. People are talking to him. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. Either we're both exercising free speech or we're both being censored. Why would I refrain from calling him out on being a dick when he doesn't? What's the slippery slope there? It seems to me like free speech is working as intended.

Posted by Patchouli

Never take advice about women or women's rights from a fat man with a neckbeard

Posted by Mechabolic

@NoelVeiga: Cool sarcasm. Though you have to admit, from a website standpoint, this article is gold. Look at dat post count! I can only imagine the hit count!

Posted by Hailinel

@Mechabolic said:

@Hailinel: Now you are saying that he said this out of maliciousness when that is clearly not the case. If you have ever seen Ares talk that's just how he is. You seem to be making a huge mountain out a molehill. If she actually said anything to him during the stream he would of stopped, but no, she had to wait and let the internet fight her fights for her. Like I said, the chat has gotten as bad as a political debate...

How would I know it would stop? Frankly, how would you know it would have stop? Either way, he should have known better than to act in such a way from the start given that it's a Capcom-sponsored event being streamed on the internet, not in some dingy corner of an arcade with a few other guys.

Posted by NoelVeiga

@Mechabolic said:

@Hailinel: Have you never played a fighting game online? This is the norm. Curse Patrick for writing this and inciting the masses.

Yes, inciting the masses to be respectful and consider the effects of what they say before they say it. How dare he?

Posted by Jethuty
@Hailinel
@Jethuty
Just to clarify, Aris is a part of the tekken community, not the fighting game community. Its two seperate scenes, tekken/3d fighters and 2d fighters to be exact. If anything he represents them, not the bigger scene.
That distinction is pretty much the definition of bullshit. Tekken is a fighting game, therefore anyone competitively associated with it is part of the FGC. The community as a whole needs to wash their hands of morons like Aris regardless of the individual games or series they compete in.
Its not. You dont lump bf3/quake players witg cod players, and you dont blame the hon community for some shit a lol player did. Only thing thats bullshit is your pointed finger. The tekken community and the 2d community is two different things. Also stop blaming the community for the actions of one idiot. I dont go blaming the gb community because of your stupid comments, and neither should i.
Posted by Mechabolic

@NoelVeiga: That's the problem though. If you make exceptions for her then you need to make exceptions for EVERYONE that might get upset at what you might say. You can see how that can become a slippery slope.

Posted by NoelVeiga

@MannySavior said:

Then I have no problem spelling out what I mean for you. I mentioned earlier that most people seem to be too stuck on picking Aris's or Jared's side rather than thinking for themselves. (keep in mind that I'm not accusing you of this)

A majority are obviously going to jump on Jared's side and completely dismiss Aris's view point because in this specific case, he had a very poor showing. The problem is Jared's side seems to be to tell some of the community to censor themselves. Now never mind the fact that so many people like to take a mob mentality style of opinion in a situation like this when there's so much more to it beyond what Patrick was able to get. And I don't blame Patrick at all for this. He clearly just got a bunch of information and put it up. Taking it at face value does put Aris in the most extreme of negative lights, but I'm sure he both knows that this is the trade off for his sense of humor, and probably doesn't care. He's a guy you know will always be himself and never be fake with you, and the problem with Jared's stance is guys like him and Yipes can't be who they are with such standards. And while a lot of people might say "Good I don't like their commentary anyway!", there's just as many people out there that very much know who they are and want them around.

Aris's stuff with Kayo Police was one of the highlights of EVO last year. He might be close minded and misguided on some issues, but I don't believe he's a bad guy for that. Nor do I believe he should be put on the same level as those typical XBox live kids/frat boys that people despise so much. But if a guy like Aris can't be himself on commentary, I'd rather watch on mute. Sure, I also occasionally people like Ultradavid and James Chen attempting to educate the audience on the game too. I just think that ONLY having that makes it get real dull. That's part of the reason color commentary exists. You have the straight man calling it like he see's it while you have the educated person on the side who's also there to add some personality. Joe Rogan's commentary in the UFC is a good example of this. He obviously doesn't get to use the language he probably wants to use, but he isn't afraid to call it like he sees it and even show a little favoritism sometimes which is incredibly refreshing when it comes to commentary. That is what I think Aris can be, but when the freakin guy gets kicked out of MLG just for making a comment while he was a simple audience member, how do you think he's gonna react when people suggest that the community he likes to be a part of strives to join people like that?

So, once again, I think both Jared and Aris have their heart in the right place here, but there needs to be a compromise so they can reach a middle ground because both extreme sides of the table suck.

But that's still not "censorship". He's not asking anybody to "censor themselves", he's asking them to be friendly and not scare people away. that was my point. Telling you not to be an ass is not censorship. Now, the rest of your post isn't about what "censoring" entails, it's about whether Aris has a point or not. That was not my question. I can see that myself (he kinda doesn't).

Look, if you want to say that this is an argument about whether this group of people stays the way they are or they change to be more mainstream, yeah, I see that. I just object to the use of the word "censorship" here, because that's not what it is. Not every single thing you say is immediately a standard bearer for free speech just because somebody else didn't like the fact that you said it.

You think there's a happy medium to be found here? Fair enough, but I will not acknowledge that both sides are on equal terms here, that both are equally extreme. Jared's side isn't for the community to "censor" itself, it's for the community to play nice with others. That may change what the community is, but it's not an attack on their free speech at all. Plus, he's totally right. But still, not censorship.

Posted by thebrassthief--defunct

Wow. The ignorance this guy is showing makes my head hurt, from the basketball/football metaphor to what he thinks racism is. Capcom picked this guy up to do something for them? Like, under their name? What a mistake.

Edited by chaosnovaxz

@depecheload:

That's bullshit, and your utter lack of reading comprehension disturbs me. You speak as if I support such talk in any form.

You know damn well the word "bitch" is tossed around by trash-talking morons regardless of gender, and the verb "rape" hardly applies only to women. You're trying too hard.

Edited by Mechabolic

@Hailinel: Now you are saying that he said this out of maliciousness when that is clearly not the case. If you have ever seen Ares talk that's just how he is. You seem to be making a huge mountain out a molehill. If she actually said anything to him during the stream he would of stopped, but no, she had to wait and let the internet fight her fights for her. Like I said, the chat has gotten as bad as a political debate...

sentence

Posted by OneManX

@Mechabolic: Yeah she could of, but as a man, you kinda have to just know where the line is and where not to cross it.

And Aris is not a giant asshole people want to paint, let's just get that out there. At EVO last year he was SUPER respectful to KayoPolice (who is transgender) while she was on commentary with him. It's justt hat "keep it real" mentaility is gonna rub some people raw.

Posted by KoolAidMan

@TruthTellah said:

This is a real shame. I've quite enjoyed Bakhtanians' commentary during tournaments for a while now, but he is quite wrong on this.

People certainly have a right to say whatever they like, but tournaments and eSports also have the right to enforce their own standards of conduct within a tournament environment. And language like this is simply unacceptable. High-level fight gaming does not need to be held back by things like this; instead, people should perhaps start acting like adults and take responsibility for their actions. Trash talking is one thing, but harassing someone and alienating people from feeling welcome in the fight scene isn't right. And if fight gaming plans on continuing its eSports rise, standards for how people act in tournaments must be encouraged and enforced for the betterment of the sport and the fighting game community at large.

QFT

Posted by Hailinel

@august said:

@Mechabolic said:

@OneManX: I agree, that wasn't online. If she had a problem with it then tell him. Don't clam up and then cry about it on the internet later. That makes you as douche-like as the person that upset you. When you play online then people tend to get away with because you will just call them a "troll" and dismiss their comment, no harm, no foul.

Blaming the victim is fun and exciting.

Isn't it, though?

Seriously, Mechaholic, do you have any idea what it is you're saying? That she's just as bad for either being unwilling or unable to confront the asshole to his face, when god only knows what sort of response that would elicit from him? That's exactly how bullies work; they feed off of those sorts of reactions and use them as fuel for further attacks. Aris is obviously set in his ways to a point that her telling him to stop wouldn't have accomplished anything, except perhaps make her situation even worse.

Posted by KoolAidMan

@twillfast said:

Starcraft is only really clean at major events. When watching some players stream, like PsyStarcraft or Destiny, I expect them to be a little foul-mouthed. They are speaking to their stream and their fans and have a tone that's "inclusive" to friends, but could be alienating to outsiders.

If someone who never watched starcraft sees the GSL or MLG, however, they'll be met with professionalism. If the fighting community wants to be as big as the starcraft community, they need to start there. Simple as that. Get a quality stream, cut the shitty casters and in the long run, you'll get more viewers.

Pretty much. The thing to note though is that if a Starcraft player is BM, he actually stands out as being BM. The attitudes of people like CombatEx and Deezer are seen as outside of the norm and are mostly shunned by the community as a result. CombatEx has been trying to fix his image for the last year and it has been tough for him.

Aris believes that an attitude hostile to outsiders is essential to the FGC, which is a huge difference in mentality. That said, he wants to "keep it real" even at the expense of growing the scene, so at least he's consistent.

Posted by Brackynews

@LiquidSwords: Whoa. Is that the kid from the I'm a Mac ads?

Posted by Mechabolic

@august: Playing the victim is just as fun too. Both sides can be called out on how they handled it. Bleh, this is turning into a political debate (IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME THEN YOU ARE AGAINST US!). Once again, thank you patrick for this.

Posted by august

@Mechabolic said:

@OneManX: I agree, that wasn't online. If she had a problem with it then tell him. Don't clam up and then cry about it on the internet later. That makes you as douche-like as the person that upset you. When you play online then people tend to get away with because you will just call them a "troll" and dismiss their comment, no harm, no foul.

Blaming the victim is fun and exciting.

Posted by sanchez8797

There's enough aholes in the world already,let's show some more respect to the ladies

Edited by Mechabolic

@Supah_Ted: Cool strawman bro

"You know who else agreed with what you said? Hitler."

@OneManX & Hailinel: : I agree, that wasn't online. If she had a problem with it then tell him. Don't clam up and then cry about it on the internet later. That makes you as douche-like as the person that upset you. When you play online then people tend to get away with because you will just call them a "troll" and dismiss their comment, no harm, no foul.

Edited by OneManX

@Mechabolic said:

@Hailinel: Have you never played a fighting game online? This is the norm. Curse Patrick for writing this and inciting the masses.

This isn't online. This is an scene that is growing and evolving everyday. Seeing stuff like this, holds us back and makes us seems like some jackasses hanging outside of arcades, and not professionals.

Posted by Hailinel

@Mechabolic said:

@Hailinel: Have you never played a fighting game online? This is the norm. Curse Patrick for writing this and inciting the masses.

Yes, I have, and no, it should not be the norm. What insane culture is this where it's considered normal to hurl racist/sexist insults without batting an eye and expecting no backlash in return? How is this considered something that should not change?