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Posted by JackSukeru

Huh, fun read! Glad I'm not invested in any of this, seems like a mess.

Edited by ItBeStefYo

What he says IS WRONG but sort of makes sense in what fighting games do...

Absolutely disgusting behaviour though. Feel so sorry for the poor girl.

Posted by TeflonBilly

I've never cared much for Aris. He seems like a lame douchebag.

However, this whole article is sensationalist garbage with a lot of nice cherrypicking of quotes and covert editoralizing. C'mon Patrick, you are better than this. Your articles are your shining beacon and this is Kotaku level crap.

Posted by mbr2

@Discorsi said:

E SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS... AAAAAaAaAaAAAaAAAaAaaAaaaAA.

Please don't call fighting games ESports. They clearly don't want it and me neither.

Posted by soundlug

@Targie: Again, being passionate or say "He didn't mean" are good excuses, that just mean that he talked before actually thinking

Posted by AxleBro

i still love Aris. he was kidding, and if you've ever seen anything with him in it he's always like that.

Posted by Plasma

You've kinda taken one guy from the show that everyone disagrees with and blown it up Patrick, but I guess that's what journalists do.

Could have at least talked about her twitter being overloaded with positive comments from MANY people in the FGC having her back completely.

Aris tars the FGC with one brush, but each scene from each city, and even multiple scenes within a city will be radically different. Just happens Aris is in some sexist, trash talking scene where everyone mocks everyone.

Posted by HorseFactory

I thoroughly enjoyed Bakhtanians' backtracking and shitty excuses.

'Well, y'know something man, I did murder someone, but I mean, I didn't really do it because fighting games.'

Posted by joshrholloway

@AxleFGK said:

i still love Aris. he was kidding, and if you've ever seen anything with him in it he's always like that.

Every single defense of Aris, including his own, seems to say "he's always a jerk, no one should be surprised."

Really?!

Posted by Junpei

As someone who has gotten into the fighting scene a lot over the past 2 years I can say that this is not the vibe I get. Yeah, there is language. It's a competitive group who likes to trash talk. Sexism on the other hand and sexual harassment on the other doesn't seem to be a problem from the outside looking in from my perspective. I think Aris's point was that you either take the community as a whole or you leave it. They don't want the fighting game scene they have built watered down by the eSports image and political correctness. At the same time there are women in the scene that are competitive and really good. Choco Blanka being the front runner for that in my opinion. Everyone that just starts is gonna get some shit talked on them, man or woman. You need to earn the respect of the community.

Don't get me wrong, I think what he said is wrong and incredibly dumb and mis-representative of the community, but everyone is gonna get trash talked and "harassed" by some players until you prove your worth. Not just women.

Posted by heatDrive88

The only reason this gets attention is because there's no equivalent public airing/streaming of the homophobia, racism, and flame-baiting that goes on in the voice chat of almost any multiplayer Call of Duty game.

But hey, what do you expect from a bunch of criminally-retarded grognards who still haven't become mature adults yet.

Posted by dream431ca

@jrsmaster411: Does it really matter if he's nice or not. So because he's "nice" means that he can spout any shit he wants and get away with it?? People like him have to really learn to shut their mouths sometimes.

Edited by Pinworm45

@WilliamHenry said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@McQuinn said:

Aris is the captain because he is the biggest supporter of the 3D fighting game community. He is definitely an ass, but he does it jokingly and not insultingly although pretty blunt and childish. Making fun of people is a part of the fighting game community and it is there to build competition and hype. Everyone knew Aris was going to act like that. Sherry, the other female contestant, looked quite pissed that Miranda forfeited.

Why is being an intolerate asshole part of the FGC? Why can't people be respectful of others and treat everyone fairly? I'm not saying you can't rib each other, but you don't have to be an complete asshole when you do it. Your comments shouldn't make someone else feel uncomfortable. Giving the dude a pass because he's joking and does it to everyone isn't acceptable. Saying it as a joke does not automatically make it okay to say. If thats how the community operates, why would anyone ever want to become a part of it?

He does treat everyone fairly. he smacktalks to everyone equally. It's part of his scene.

Ok, so because he does it to everyone then its perfectly ok? It doesn't matter if he's a total asshole, as long as he's one to everyone, right? Being an asshole to everyone still means he is being an asshole. Doing it to everyone doesn't make it okay. Why can't he be respectful of everyone? He can still rib them but he doesn't have to be a total asshole about it. Like I said before, his comments shouldn't make anyone else feel uncomfortable, and its plainly obvious that they do. If you want to rib someone, then fine, but you don't have to be cruel.

I don't think you actually know anything he said. This article is pretty sensationalist and everything he says is in jest - hardly "cruel" or being a "total asshole". No one else is offended by him except this one person, who couldn't handle something that IS part of their culture and scene. How do you draw the line between "ribbing someone" and "going to far" when someone having skin that's too thin is a factor? Why should he and his group change their attitudes to accommodate one person who can't handle it? Why should he change who he is because one person got offended by it? he doesn't want his group watered down in political correctness, why would you force that upon him? I often talk shit with my Guild that I've played tons of games, if you joined it and told us to be "nicer" we'd laugh ourselves senseless at your entitlement and desire to PC everything. I expect you'd feel similiar if I did something like that to one of your groups of friends.

Posted by MasturbatingestBear

Wow, I've never watched a lot of fighting game live streams. Is sexism and casual racism a common part of their culture? I really had no clue about that. I thought most of the people would be pretty chill.

Posted by Mr_Skeleton

Playing Dota has taught me to ignore insults and how to bury my hurt feelings.

Posted by pekoe212

@Pinworm45 said:

@jasondesante said:

some homo virgin rips on girls because he is fat and hideous and half retarded. Just put him in a corner and let him have his tantrum. Girls that play fighting games are just as cool as guys that play fighting games. Trash talk in fighting games is a last resort for those who aren't comfortable playing the game.

He insults men just as much as girls.. just no one gives a shit about that. People have to white knight girls, which is sexist itself, because it's implying that women can't handle trash talk, which apparently this one couldn't. Pretty fucking ironic that you proceed to call this guy a "homo virgin" who can't get girls because he is fat, as if that is somehow any less sexist than anything he has ever said. it is in fact more sexist, because his "sexism" was merely gendered insults like "bitch".

The difference to me, is that usually men are insulted for not being "man" enough, i.e. being like a woman. And a woman is insulted for....being a woman. That's why it can really hurt sometimes. That my membership in the other 50% of the population can be used as an "insult" against me, a "weakness," you can't really dismiss someone's worth at a more basic level.

Edited by darkdragonmage99

The first amendment was designed specifically to protect even the most heinous neo nazi speech and the painfull brather of idiotic tree huggers. You don't need a law to protect popular speech no one is afraid micky mouse is going to be cencord our founding fathers knew that limiting speech in any way gives the goverment to much power.  


 
Just to make my stance on this and any matter involving someone saying something people don't like clear.
Posted by Deusoma
@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@McQuinn said:

Aris is the captain because he is the biggest supporter of the 3D fighting game community. He is definitely an ass, but he does it jokingly and not insultingly although pretty blunt and childish. Making fun of people is a part of the fighting game community and it is there to build competition and hype. Everyone knew Aris was going to act like that. Sherry, the other female contestant, looked quite pissed that Miranda forfeited.

Why is being an intolerate asshole part of the FGC? Why can't people be respectful of others and treat everyone fairly? I'm not saying you can't rib each other, but you don't have to be an complete asshole when you do it. Your comments shouldn't make someone else feel uncomfortable. Giving the dude a pass because he's joking and does it to everyone isn't acceptable. Saying it as a joke does not automatically make it okay to say. If thats how the community operates, why would anyone ever want to become a part of it?

He does treat everyone fairly. he smacktalks to everyone equally. It's part of his scene.

Being horrible to everyone may be "being fair" inasmuch that it's balanced, but it is absolutely not "treating people fairly"; treating a person fairly means to treat them with respect and dignity. The fact that he is an asshole to everyone instead of just to some people doesn't negate the fact that he's still an asshole. WilliamHenry was absolutely correct.
Posted by jasondesante

@Pinworm45: "Trust me, I don't have to work very hard to prove I'm smarter than you."

I wrote a comment on this article. You sent an @ reply to tell me how dumb you think I am and how wrong you think I am and to bring up other things that contradict yourself.

There are people that write comments and there are trolls who only reply to others to talk down to them.

Leave me alone please.

Edited by Chibithor

@joshrholloway said:

@AxleFGK said:

i still love Aris. he was kidding, and if you've ever seen anything with him in it he's always like that.

Every single defense of Aris, including his own, seems to say "he's always a jerk, no one should be surprised."

Really?!

Yeah man, you can't play basketball with a football, so Aris can be a jerk and sexism is cool because this ain't North Korea you know. Hmm, wait, on second thought that makes no sense at all.

Shame how nobody wants to reply to Patrick though. :(

Posted by BlazeHedgehog

This sums up what needs to change pretty well:
 

Rea: Can I get my Street Fighter without sexual harassment?
Bakhtanians: You can’t.

 
I can't believe anybody would cling to "sexual harassment" as something that's important to a community. The hell's wrong with you, man.
Posted by Zaxex

@Targie: I agree that Super Yan didn't handle the situation perfectly and that Jared isn't the ideal spokesperson for the toning down of the scene; but that said, I don't think their views are less important because they aren't the best examples of their beliefs.

I could do without the stuff that isn't really acceptable elsewhere; i.e. the racism, the sexism, the homophobia etc etc. I get that these are just real people doing as they wish, but if they want to legitimize the scene and have it grow and be more fiscally viable maybe they don't need to be dicks constantly.

Posted by doublezeroduck

I like watching Phoenix get raped though.

Posted by AnjinM

I am constantly and repeatedly disheartened by the gaming community. I would like to raise my (almost one year old) daughter to be a gamer like her dad, but not if this is what she has to look forward to.

Posted by Aohnonono

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@McQuinn said:

Aris is the captain because he is the biggest supporter of the 3D fighting game community. He is definitely an ass, but he does it jokingly and not insultingly although pretty blunt and childish. Making fun of people is a part of the fighting game community and it is there to build competition and hype. Everyone knew Aris was going to act like that. Sherry, the other female contestant, looked quite pissed that Miranda forfeited.

Why is being an intolerate asshole part of the FGC? Why can't people be respectful of others and treat everyone fairly? I'm not saying you can't rib each other, but you don't have to be an complete asshole when you do it. Your comments shouldn't make someone else feel uncomfortable. Giving the dude a pass because he's joking and does it to everyone isn't acceptable. Saying it as a joke does not automatically make it okay to say. If thats how the community operates, why would anyone ever want to become a part of it?

He does treat everyone fairly. he smacktalks to everyone equally. It's part of his scene.

Ok, so because he does it to everyone then its perfectly ok? It doesn't matter if he's a total asshole, as long as he's one to everyone, right? Being an asshole to everyone still means he is being an asshole. Doing it to everyone doesn't make it okay. Why can't he be respectful of everyone? He can still rib them but he doesn't have to be a total asshole about it. Like I said before, his comments shouldn't make anyone else feel uncomfortable, and its plainly obvious that they do. If you want to rib someone, then fine, but you don't have to be cruel.

I don't think you actually know anything he said. This article is pretty sensationalist and everything he says is in jest - hardly "cruel" or being a "total asshole". No one else is offended by him except this one person, who couldn't handle something that IS part of their culture and scene. How do you draw the line between "ribbing someone" and "going to far" when someone having skin that's too thin is a factor? Why should he and his group change their attitudes to accommodate one person who can't handle it? Why should he change who he is because one person got offended by it?

You're wrong, you clearly didn't watch the video and haven't been watching all week. I have, Aris has been a total disgusting creeper and what he's been doing is NOT simply joking, it's harassment. There's a point at the end of that day 1 video where he leans in and SMELLS HER HAIR after threatening her for losing matches

Posted by Sergotron

Ok that video got real creepy really fast.

Posted by obscurefan

As a full grown adult who loves fighting games, I'm glad this article was written, because I hate how the online community is full of racist and sexist dialogue. Sure, they can say its because they're a bunch of young kids playing it, but when I was in my teenage years I wasn't going around spouting hateful garbage, but something about not having to show your face to people and just talk into a microphone makes people think they can get away with it. We as a video game community need to start cracking down on this behavior, we need to stop celebrating it and laughing about it, and treat it the same way we would in real life.

Posted by jellotek

What. How come the fighting game fans I meet are all alright then?

Posted by Seroth

Would Aris forcing Kayo to marry him be considered harassment, too?

Posted by spartanlolz92

@Lagaroth said:

Why do gamers have to be assholes at all? You can be plenty competitive without resorting to insults or racist/sexist jokes.

actually any competitive scene has stuff like this take sports. it has a tremendous amount of trash talk.

its sad really it will never change just have to ignore. that why they never play the audio from matches and microphones almost never pick up what players are saying in college / professional sports. itd have more lewd language in it then all of south parks first two seasons

Posted by BonOrbitz

This shit sickens me. It doesn't surprise me, however. Especially the fucking idiots out there who are like "So what? It's just Aris" or "I've never been the politically correct type. Oh well". I love political incorrectness but this is beyond that.

People are yelling "rape that bitch". What the fuck is wrong with you?

And his analogy to basketball was utter nonsense. He compares sexual harassment and it's involvement in the fighting game scene to a basketball and it's role in the game of basketball? He may kick ass in the local fighting game tournaments, but the big picture is that he's a stupid fuck and lacks character and decency; more important and honorable traits in this world.

This is what makes me hate my beloved hobby at times. People like him and those who stand up for him or try to make excuses. This doesn't challenge thinking, rebel smartly against moral boundaries, and it certainly isn't a case for the "freedom of speech".

Posted by demell

I laughed my ass off when I read this and read through these comments. What a perfect example of what our society is turning into. Notice I don't say gaming community. That's too narrow. This is a problem with our society and culture as a whole and putting all the weight of stupidity on just the gaming community degrades all of us just as much as it gives people like this an excuse to keep acting this way.

Then again you have to wonder if you can ever fix this type of behavior within the gaming community. Games are a way for people to express themselves in an environment where they can hide behind another character. Its the modern day make believe opportunity. So if you give people like this the outlet to express themselves through a medium where it may or may not be known who the person actually is these types of comments and this continuing behavior is going to persists and only get worse as more and more people become a part of the community.

So the real question is........should tournaments and live broadcasts like this continue if they are only going to facilitate this type of behavior? Is it really necessary for us to put a video gamer on a pedestal (incidentally you can make the same argument about sports or Hollywood but that's just a hydra of a debate to have) just because we like playing video games?

Second interesting question that just popped into head.............have video games actually benefited from these types of promotions? I mean, the video game industry (like any media industry) is always trying to bring in new people. In my mind these types of live shows and tournaments don't help them in any way and are only tailored to those only in the community. If they don't help bring people in do we, as a community, really need them?

Posted by Kratch

There is a difference between trash talking and making fun of people, and being sexist or racist in a hurtful way. If you have to resort to sexism or racism to trash talk, you're probably not very good at it.

Posted by wapostyle

Just because you have the right to be an asshole doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

It's a bit off topic but I think the basic concept applies.

"With great power comes great responsibility."

-Ben Parker

Posted by rmanthorp

I'm SO mad you reported on this. YOU GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT!

Moderator Online
Posted by Pinworm45

@Deusoma said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@McQuinn said:

Aris is the captain because he is the biggest supporter of the 3D fighting game community. He is definitely an ass, but he does it jokingly and not insultingly although pretty blunt and childish. Making fun of people is a part of the fighting game community and it is there to build competition and hype. Everyone knew Aris was going to act like that. Sherry, the other female contestant, looked quite pissed that Miranda forfeited.

Why is being an intolerate asshole part of the FGC? Why can't people be respectful of others and treat everyone fairly? I'm not saying you can't rib each other, but you don't have to be an complete asshole when you do it. Your comments shouldn't make someone else feel uncomfortable. Giving the dude a pass because he's joking and does it to everyone isn't acceptable. Saying it as a joke does not automatically make it okay to say. If thats how the community operates, why would anyone ever want to become a part of it?

He does treat everyone fairly. he smacktalks to everyone equally. It's part of his scene.

Being horrible to everyone may be "being fair" inasmuch that it's balanced, but it is absolutely not "treating people fairly"; treating a person fairly means to treat them with respect and dignity. The fact that he is an asshole to everyone instead of just to some people doesn't negate the fact that he's still an asshole. WilliamHenry was absolutely correct.

He's doing it in jest and it's part of the culture. He's hardly the only one who does it, and it's the type of culture that he and his peers enjoy. Who are you to tell them to change?

Posted by ThePhantomnaut

The situation has been ridiculous and unfortunate how it turned out.
 
Aris is a bit of an ass hole but he is good guy. He tried to keep himself sane with the harassment and maybe thought it was in good faith. He might have thought the joking might have been accepting within the team including Miranda. Miranda might have reached a breaking point after multiple days which is understandable.
 
I also wanna mention the stream monsters in the chats. I got involved in the harassment along with many others but at the time, we were thinking it was all in good faith and fun and the situation would subside eventually. With the revelations up to yesterday, it's an important sign that we gotta learn what has happened and improve for the future.
 
The long party is over. We gotta go to bed and get ready for the next day.

Posted by Taefarinas

My two cents: I love gaming, though fighting games aren't my thing. This sort of casual sexism is in other communities as well, and there can often be a general negative atmosphere for people who are a bit sensitive (like me). I'd still like to play with other people, but have confined myself mostly to split-screen because I don't want to play with other people who might think it's okay to insult people. It seems juvenile, and yeah, I hate it.

@Harkat said:

Stuff like "rape that bitch!" in gaming contexts is not particularly offensive to me. The group of buddies I play CoD or Battlefield with use the word "rape" interchangeably with "own", as in "I'm owning/raping these guys so hard right now!". I honestly don't believe there is anything sexist behind it. To imply that it is hateful specifically to women would in my opinion be to marginalize male rape victims.

I know that "rape" doesn't always mean the dictionary definition, but when you know people who have been raped (and spoken to you about it; statistics say 1 in 6 US women has experience either rape or attempted rape), it's still very upsetting. As more women join, the chance of someone who has actually been raped reading that increases, and I'm sure very few of the people who make such comments would mean harm. While you are right about the last statement, of course, the vast majority of rape victims are female.

Posted by mrfluke
@princess_zelda said:

of course he looks like that. lmao.

this is the quote of the day and the comment that matters  
 
so true lmao 
 
people want this shit to be taken seriously but then you have assholes that act like this? thrash-talking or not its still fucking stupid behavior its no different than playing halo or MW online with a bunch of children
   
like it or not there is a percentage that will see this and be like man fuck fighting games, and never play them, and thereby spreading word of mouth poison, 
Posted by supercubedude

All video game communities have vile scum, let's not single out the fighting game community.

Posted by Snorlaaax

Clearly, you haven't watched. Or else, you would've known Aris was "harassing" everyone. Mike Ross, Kor, and Ricky Ortiz. And when someone said maybe he was going too far with Miranda, SHE shrugged it off and laughed. Dismissing it as if it wasn't anything. Also, he sniffed Mike Ross; where were you then, white knight?

Posted by Conceited

@jellotek said:

What. How come the fighting game fans I meet are all alright then?

Because this article is about one person and is thus pretty much pointless.

Also, Jared Rea is absolute scum if he really did what Haunts said he did.

Posted by Pinworm45

@Aohnonono said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@WilliamHenry said:

@McQuinn said:

Aris is the captain because he is the biggest supporter of the 3D fighting game community. He is definitely an ass, but he does it jokingly and not insultingly although pretty blunt and childish. Making fun of people is a part of the fighting game community and it is there to build competition and hype. Everyone knew Aris was going to act like that. Sherry, the other female contestant, looked quite pissed that Miranda forfeited.

Why is being an intolerate asshole part of the FGC? Why can't people be respectful of others and treat everyone fairly? I'm not saying you can't rib each other, but you don't have to be an complete asshole when you do it. Your comments shouldn't make someone else feel uncomfortable. Giving the dude a pass because he's joking and does it to everyone isn't acceptable. Saying it as a joke does not automatically make it okay to say. If thats how the community operates, why would anyone ever want to become a part of it?

He does treat everyone fairly. he smacktalks to everyone equally. It's part of his scene.

Ok, so because he does it to everyone then its perfectly ok? It doesn't matter if he's a total asshole, as long as he's one to everyone, right? Being an asshole to everyone still means he is being an asshole. Doing it to everyone doesn't make it okay. Why can't he be respectful of everyone? He can still rib them but he doesn't have to be a total asshole about it. Like I said before, his comments shouldn't make anyone else feel uncomfortable, and its plainly obvious that they do. If you want to rib someone, then fine, but you don't have to be cruel.

I don't think you actually know anything he said. This article is pretty sensationalist and everything he says is in jest - hardly "cruel" or being a "total asshole". No one else is offended by him except this one person, who couldn't handle something that IS part of their culture and scene. How do you draw the line between "ribbing someone" and "going to far" when someone having skin that's too thin is a factor? Why should he and his group change their attitudes to accommodate one person who can't handle it? Why should he change who he is because one person got offended by it?

You're wrong, you clearly didn't watch the video and haven't been watching all week. I have, Aris has been a total disgusting creeper and what he's been doing is NOT simply joking, it's harassment. There's a point at the end of that day 1 video where he leans in and SMELLS HER HAIR after threatening her for losing matches

He's done similar if not worse things to other people. None of them cared and found it funny. Why should he and his friends all change the culture they've created to satisfy ONE person out of political correctness - something he actively wants to avoid in his community?

Posted by 3pwood

Aris is definitely wrong about sexual harassment being inseparable from the fighting game community. It can be done and it should be done. The things he's doing and saying just serve to drag the community down rather than elevate it.

Posted by GaspoweR

It's just unfortunate since Aris in reality is a pretty nice guy who has this asshole exterior. I'm not saying what he did is right but its just unfortunate that things got to a point in that show wherein it turned out the way it is right now.

Actually, there has been stuff that has been cleared up in one of the other streams last night in the thisisLIJoe stream where a lot of players did chip in the whole situation including Aris himself and Dr. Sub Zero. I don't know if anyone else on GB was able to see it.The only one that Joe wasn't able to come into contact was Miranda.

Posted by LaserLambert

@Sooty: EVO went on while fighting games WERE dead, so that event is meaningless, but combine the declining variety of fighting with the disgusting nature of the community come to more light, I'd say it's not crazy to imagine. also it was a hyperbole, no need to treat me like an idiot child.

Edited by Aohnonono

@Snorlaaax said:

Clearly, you haven't watched. Or else, you would've known Aris was "harassing" everyone. Mike Ross, Kor, and Ricky Ortiz. And when someone said maybe he was going too far with Miranda, SHE shrugged it off and laughed. Dismissing it as if it wasn't anything. Also, he sniffed Mike Ross; where were you then, white knight?

Sniffing Mike Ross and harassing other people isn't cool either, you complete and utter tool. Miranda did speak up on day 2 and Capcom REPRIMANDED ARIS ABOUT IT! This is a direct quote from sp00ky this morning. He continued to be a dick and Capcom did nothing.

Edited by clientkiller

Patrick, I'm really glad you're highlighting this kind of harassment in video games. If the industry is to be taken seriously by the world then it means everyone involved needs to take responsibility to stop this kind of thing from being seen as "normal". Playing games online gives anonymity and the free reign to be sexist, racist and homophobic without consequence.

I would say there is a wider problem of MOST companies completely ignoring what is going on in their communities or not wanting to deal with these issues. Even though they shouldn't, young children are playing online and watching these e-streams and being influenced by the people they look up to.

It's not enough for Capcom to apologise, but rather they should openly ban all those involved on team Tekken from being involved in all future Capcom run tournaments.

Posted by soundlug

@darkdragonmage99: I always love the "Free Speech" scapegoat. Let me quote Warren Ellis:

"And before the nutters start: yes, I’m sure this can be justified as your lovely American free speech and not hate speech or malicious communication, and yes, I’m sure he has a perfect right to say it and all that shit. Guess what? I have a perfect right not to like it, and a right to wish not to be associated with the nutter who spews it."

http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=11532