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Posted by moregrammarplz

@AxleFGK said:

Patrick, i'm going to ask for an apology, as a fan of your articles, and a member of the community you just labeled as a group of "sexist" "racist" "immature teenage homophobes" i found this article to be in poor tastes.

What are you talking about? None of those things you claim are in the article are in the article.

Posted by Skooky

This article barely has anything to do with video games.

Posted by rndmtask

Aris is as old school as they get, and he doesn't want the FGC to change, at least in attitude. Yes, Aris was exposed, but this is Aris, and he doesn't hold back. To him, the FGC is all about machismo and braggadocio, and that's what will always be. Unfortunately, when something that you love is changing so quickly and becoming more mainstream, and is actually trying to be mainstream, you can't have it both ways.

This was bound to happen, if not with Aris, then with someone else on a big promotional live event.

I chalk it up as growing pains for the FGC. The ugly will happen, but we can't let it overshadow the positives, such as the FGC's acceptance with Kayo and Ricky Ortiz.

Posted by whatthegeek

@Pinworm45: You're ignorant because you failed to read and understand what I said. If you joke about harassing women but would NEVER rape someone because you're clear on all of the moral and ethical reasons why you shouldn't rape someone your jokes are just that - jokes.

You may never ever do something harmful toward a woman, BUT your comments may be viewed as justification of a harmful action someone else is thinking of taking. Sex crimes get committed because the offender thinks it's OK to do it, and they get that idea from their surroundings.

Even if the harassing comments made within the fighting game community never encourage someone to commit a crime, they still make women feel uncomfortable. If I'm not mistaken, Miranda has been on the scene for a long time - if she felt that she needed to bow out to get away from it all, then obviously this shit has gotten out of control. Why else would a veteran feel so uncomfortable that she would throw a match?

Read this

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2011/03/feminism-101-helpful-hints-for-dudes.html

and then tell me I'm ignorant. Tell me how it's OK to harass women. Tell me it's all in good fun.

Edited by BulletproofMonk

I think it's a little unfair to judge the whole community just because Aris is a stupid fucking idiot. 

Posted by Harkat

@Dallas_Raines said:

Patrick posted this on twitter

If you're a member of the fighting game scene who feels strongly against the story I wrote today, get in touch. patrick@giantbomb.com.

That's very decent of him. Props to Patrick, he's a great duder, even if I'm skeptical of this article.

Posted by melodiousj

@Zabant said:

@Bassman2112 said:

Patrick, thank you so much for writing this article. As a 20something who basically refuses to play online because of all the idiots on mics who think casual racism, misogyny and the like are totally fine, it's nice to finally see something about it on a public article. I have lots of female gamer friends who like to play online, but won't use a mic because the moment guys hear a girl's voice on the other end they start harassing them with brash, sexual and offensive comments. I don't think it's a matter of it being "esports versus a fun time," it's just common decency towards other people...
Posted by Napalm

I'm glad Patrick posted this article, because I've heard rumblings from Jared Rae and Mike Ross on the issue, but I didn't have a context. Now I do.

Edited by mfpantst
@darkdragonmage99: I think you have a point.  But trying to play "guess a girl's bra size" after she says she doesn't want to talk about that? Telling two girls you want them to mudwrestle and you'll 'take home' the winner?  In that one video that all happened in the first two minutes.  IDK about you, but I'd call that legit harassment.  I think the "bitch" and "rape" comments one can look at as trash talk?
I'd also like to comment I like your strictly legal approach.  Even if it seems you're ok with what went down and I'm not, I respect that. I would like to add then that occasional verbal harassment is not necessarily illegal, but workplace-wise (I know that's not a workplace, but I think you can make the correlation) if it's frequent enough that the talk creates a "hostile or offensive work environment," it is totally an illegal thing.  Like I said, we're not talking about a workplace so I don't think this is how you would apply the law, but I'm saying that constant verbal sexual harassment alone is enough to be illegal, if it is constant enough. (edit: last constant, make that "frequent")
Posted by Phantomvirus

I wish you guys can get Rae back on a tnt or something and elaborate on this more.

Posted by wafflestomp

What a moron. Morons like that guy have put me off of playing multiplayer games in general unless I know the people. Kind of sad really :/

Moderator
Posted by TheKing

"You can’t go to the NBA and say “hey, I like basketball, but I don’t want them to play with a basketball, I want them to play with a football."

I can't believe something this stupid can come out of a human beings mouth. What a piss poor argument.

Posted by SYMPHONICOLOSSUS

THE reason that I have come to despise competitive gaming.

Edited by Tesla

Looking at homeboy's picture makes it easier to understand his shitty attitude.

He gets to be a tough guy through his fighting games, you take that away and he's just an unkempt fatass.

Posted by Zabant

@Snorlaaax said:

First of all, everyone in the fighting game community, including Miranda until this event, love Aris. He's amusing and he treats everyone the same way. You failed to mention that during the same stream he requested player "Kor" to remove his shirt to show the "stream monsters" his abs. When Mike Ross was their for the top-player challenges he was sniffing over his shoulder telling him that he smelled good. Aris, also jokingly hit on EG Ricky Ortiz--a well known and accepted homosexual and top-player in the fighting game community. He is of course welcome to his opinions and the article itself was pretty well written, but I feel that the one-sightedness of the article is very disappointing as reader.

Sounds like a fantastic guy......

Posted by mnzy
@SYMPHONICOLOSSUS said:

THE reason that I have come to despise competitive gaming.

You are making huge gerneralizations here yourself.
Posted by Fattony12000

Oh, you fighting games.

Posted by Darknezz

This Bakhtanians guy, and indeed the community he is supposedly representing, is disgusting. It's really baffling to think, as a fan of an eSport where it's considered bad manners to leave the game without saying "gg" first, that this kind of behavior is acceptable, and even seemingly encouraged, within the fighting game community.

Posted by Pinworm45

@whatthegeek said:

@Pinworm45: You're ignorant because you failed to read and understand what I said. If you joke about harassing women but would NEVER rape someone because you're clear on all of the moral and ethical reasons why you shouldn't rape someone your jokes are just that - jokes.

You may never ever do something harmful toward a woman, BUT your comments may be viewed as justification of a harmful action someone else is thinking of taking. Sex crimes get committed because the offender thinks it's OK to do it, and they get that idea from their surroundings.

Even if the harassing comments made within the fighting game community never encourage someone to commit a crime, they still make women feel uncomfortable. If I'm not mistaken, Miranda has been on the scene for a long time - if she felt that she needed to bow out to get away from it all, then obviously this shit has gotten out of control. Why else would a veteran feel so uncomfortable that she would throw a match?

Read this

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2011/03/feminism-101-helpful-hints-for-dudes.html

and then tell me I'm ignorant. Tell me how it's OK to harass women. Tell me it's all in good fun.

You link an article from a feminist website that draws conclusions that the study did not give. It has absolutely no understanding of psychology, or the scientific method. That article is the equivalent of me looking at a study that shows 98% of people like to eat chocolate, and then saying that every single time I discuss chocolate I am personally responsible for giving several people diabetes.

The idea that I should censor myself purely on the extremely minuscule chance that what I say is related to a crime someone else is doing is also ridiculous. The idea that it will cause them to think it's normal is unwarranted, and not shown by any scientific evidence, and even if it was, that is not my problem - and DOES NOT effect whether or not a person commits those crimes, it has MERELY been shown to AT BEST, SUGGEST that the perpetrators - who have already commited the crime - might be more inclined to think a larger than actual percentage of people commit the crime.

What you are saying is that I am guilty of promoting murder every time I say "oh fuck, I just killed the SHIT out of this guy in Battlefield 3" because someone who is actually a murder might hear that and then think everyone commits murder.

I have to go now. If you really want to continue, hit me up in PMs.

Edited by buckybit

#TeamAris - also #FreedomOfSpeech

Posted by 617_jbug

Super Yan is not happy with the articles.

https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/status/174601661401149440

Posted by MethodMan008

Jim Sterling just took down his article about this whole thing on Dtoid at Miranda's request. Respect to Jim Sterling for once.

Posted by NoelVeiga

@rndmtask said:

Aris is as old school as they get, and he doesn't want the FGC to change, at least in attitude. Yes, Aris was exposed, but this is Aris, and he doesn't hold back. To him, the FGC is all about machismo and braggadocio, and that's what will always be. Unfortunately, when something that you love is changing so quickly and becoming more mainstream, and is actually trying to be mainstream, you can't have it both ways.

This was bound to happen, if not with Aris, then with someone else on a big promotional live event.

I chalk it up as growing pains for the FGC. The ugly will happen, but we can't let it overshadow the positives, such as the FGC's acceptance with Kayo and Ricky Ortiz.

I am very much in the "this kind of talk is just nasty" camp here, but I like your comment a lot. I agree, too, fighting games became such a niche that I can see the core of the leftover players developing a bit of a "good old days" boys' club attitude towards it if and when it regains some mainstream popularity.

The upside is, I think, that having this discussion in public can help make gaming as a whole more inviting. Forget these guys, cleaning up Xbox LIVE would be such a great step towards more mainstream gaming.

Edited by Dan_CiTi

Fighting game community > library snoozing/PC community/eSports

Also, for $25k I would take about a week of some verbal abuse that is ultimately all in jest and the person who is giving it out doesn't actually care about giving me a hard time and is just fucking around. In fact, that would be a welcome change from all the people who actually wanted to put me down. And Aris is just like this, he fucks around, he is actually nice and intelligent, he's just of a different breed than all the eSports people around nowadays.

LMAO White Knighting.....not how you get a girl to like you. You actually have to treat them right fellas.

Edited by NancyDrewFan123

Anyways, I love, love, love fighting games and I love watching pro fighting game matches. Aris should NEVER have been allowed to commentate. He is well known for being inappropriate towards women and shouldn't have been invited into this event. Everyone should be treated with respect. Some people in the FGC are respectful, others aren't. The problem with the FGC is that, regardless of the respect YOU show someone else, disrespect from another player shouldn't be tolerated. If you see someone treat a woman like shit in public, let them know they're being gross.

Capcom, in THIS particular instance, should take responsibility towards putting a known misogynistic personality into a pressure cooker situation with people of the opposite gender. Aris needs to own his actions but Capcom owes everyone a major apology.

Posted by SerHulse

@AxleFGK: Where does he do this again?

'cause maybe my minds playing tricks on me, but I fail to see where this article is anything other than level-headed and a straight representation of facts, perhaps you can enlighten us as to where Patrick states your community are "immature teenage homophobes", "sexists" or "racists".

Edited by darkdragonmage99
@mfpantst:   Oh I've been truly harassed  I find people saying what he did was harassing insulting until You've gotten 5000 calls in one day from an asshole who is simply doing it to fuck with you until you get your inbox flooded to the point you cannot receive anymore emails in the span of a few days until you're ready to kill someone because they will not leave you the fuck alone. You have no idea what real harassment is.  
 
What he did was a fucking joke.  
 
 
I think you have figured out why i tend to try and keep things in the realm of rationality and legality now. I've got a lot of emotional  baggage and I prefer not to air it. 
Posted by IamAwesome

Yoooo shots fired

Miranda Pakozdi Super__Yan
lol fuck Destructoid. They tried to get me to talk to them several times and I ignored it so they made a post anyway.. jerkoffs.
Posted by Turambar
@churrific said:

@Turambar said:

@churrific said:

Like others have said, I wish Patrick would've gotten both sides of the story, including an insider's view from the community (not jared). Running the story without even speaking directly to the participants, or even getting a quote out of them, only provides a superficial glance at the situation and the community as a whole. A really negative one at that. No one's saying the FGC is perfect, but If you're gonna blow up a community, at least get some opposing viewpoints before using one man to paint a really ugly picture of a group of people to outsiders who have no exposure to them.

He reached out to both Super_Yan and Aris for comments on their side of the story. Neither responded. He didn't interview Jared either, instead posting a transcript of his conversation with Aris.

Yeah exactly. I thought there was supposed to be some kind of due diligence to journalism. Patrick reaching out to members of FGC now on twitter for opposing viewpoints, after the article's already been posted, is kind of grimey.

Due diligence is offering both sides the opportunity to speak and weigh in.  He did.  The fact those asked did not wish to comment does not suddenly invalidate this article from being published.
Posted by TheKing

@buckybit said:

#TeamAris - also #FreedomOfSpeech

#NotGettingIt

Posted by mnzy
@617_jbug said:

Super Yan is not happy with the articles.

https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/status/174601661401149440

He even quoted tweets from her that she deleted, I think that's pretty questionable. 
Also neither she nor Aris talked to him. Not even the other girl on the show Sherry. Which for a story like this, would've really helped.
Posted by Fuga

@Skooky said:

This article barely has anything to do with video games.

better kill myself

Posted by BaroqueSampson

Aris, in no way, represents the entire FGC. I will admit there are large pockets of misogyny and homophobia, but it is quickly squashing that mindset as members are becoming more aware of things like this. Aris is a relic of an age gone by.

NO ONE in their right mind believes misogyny and homophobia to be a core component of the FGC.

Posted by Turambar
@Huey2k2 said:

As someone who knows nothing about the fighting game community, or the people in it. I must say, this article is rather silly. Anytime you have any sort of serious competitive atmosphere there is going to be trash talking, and nothing in this article is especially over the top as far as trash talking goes. Go play some COD on Xbox Live and tell me that anything in this is crossing the line, because the shit you hear on there is about 100 times worse than this.

Trash talking is part of competition, ask any kind of professional athlete, they all do it. If you can't take the heat, get out of the metaphorical kitchen.

If you don't like being forced to sit in the back of the bus in Montgomery, Alabama, get out of the South.  Oh wait.
Posted by BlazeHedgehog
@Nefarious_Al said:

The FGC is not for the faint of heart. Some of us like that.

This to me reads like "We have our own little club house, don't mind the 'no girls allowed' sign, some of us don't take it seriously." 
 
@Nefarious_Al said:
Miranda has been part of the FGC for some years now she knows what's up. It was unfortunate she felt the need to forfeit. Fact of the matter is she cracked it happens to everyone not just girls.
That's kind of dumb, though. If she "cracked" and it has become this big of a deal, perhaps whether or not she "knows what's up" is irrelevant. 
 
@Nefarious_Al said:
Is Aris a dickhead? Yeah, but he is like that to everyone Miranda was not getting special treatment.
This defense is getting thrown around a lot and I can't really see how it helps his case any. He's still causing problems and saying things that are getting him in to trouble. 
 
Like it or not, by Fighting Games are nearing that point where they can either be respected and professional and move on to the "big leagues" of popularity and mainstream entertainment, or they can stay a small-time clubhouse. That's the crossroads that's happening right now. Do you want to scare away sponsors (such as the very people who produce the games you are playing) just so you and your friends can continue to be "uncensored" in your little tree house, or do you want to ride this train all the way up to the possibility of potential TV coverage? One involves continuing to be crass assholes, and the other involves booting out those who are hurting the reputation of you, your community, and its sponsors. 
 
And for the record, I see a lot of food out there in supermarkets with warning labels usually printed right on the packaging warning those with peanut allergies about whether or not the food was processed in a factory that handles nuts.
Posted by Brake

I sincerely hope that the FGC at large takes a stand against this kind of behavior. I feel like this is an opportunity for the entire community to mature a little bit. If they choose to silently accept it instead, I don't think I want to be a part of the community in any way.

Edited by UnAbel

@MisuseOfLasers said:

@Nefarious_Al said:

Is Aris a dickhead? Yeah, but he is like that to everyone Miranda was not getting special treatment.

I didn't see him asking sexual questions to the male team members, or threatening to smell them if they lost a match. Being a dickhead, even if it's to everyone, should not be acceptable behavior anywhere. There's a difference between trash talk and being an asshole. One is okay, one isn't.

Except he literally told Ricky Ortiz he would rape him--he also actually DID smell Mike Ross while he was playing the game. You didn't watch shit. You read this article and posted just like the rest of these Giant Bomb sheep, white knighting in an effort to one day show this post to a girl and impress them. Except, girls don't want to be treated like fragile pieces of glass, they want to be treated like everyone else. To not treat them like everyone else, would infact, be sexist.

By the way, Giant Bomb, I'd like to point out that Miranda herself, you know, the girl you guys are white knighting so hard for? Yeah, she spoke out against these articles.

There was a reason she turned you AND Destructoid down, Patrick:

https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/status/174601661401149440

/done

Posted by TehJedicake

im 10 and what is this

Posted by DavoTron

:(

Posted by mrfluke
@IamAwesome said:

Yoooo shots fired

Miranda PakozdiSuper__Yan
lol fuck Destructoid. They tried to get me to talk to them several times and I ignored it so they made a post anyway.. jerkoffs.
DAMMM and if u looked at patricks twitter she gave him the story and talked to her  
 
THE SCOOPZ MAN STRIKES BACK AT THE NEW COMPETITION 
Posted by StalkingTurnip

No one should act like this ever. This is not a political correctness thing. This is just blatanly offensive to the majority of people on this planet. The only reason you might defend this type of behavior is if you are guilty of it.

Posted by MadLaughter

Miranda Pakozdi sounds like a piece of work, also. She's currently trash talking Jim Sterling for writing an article about this. (Because she refused to comment she thinks she wants to sue them for libel)

Posted by Grondoth

@BulletproofMonk: That's going to happen to any community if it's shown to tolerate distasteful elements of itself. When a vocal part of your community says and does things that are objectionable, anyone seeing the community from the outside will see that part. Only by self-policing and by standing up against those sorts of things can a community hope to reverse that judgement. If you don't want to be seen as a place where creepy dudes make sexist jokes and where sexual harassment is part of the culture, you have to make sure to push against those ideas as a community and make sure that the people expressing them are vocally rebuked.

"No, you cannot" is out there. "Gender science 101" is out there. Anyone watching a stream is going to see the comments, and now half the gaming internet's gonna see links to this awful debacle. You can't just hide it. You've got to fight it.

Posted by Pinworm45

@Turambar said:

@Huey2k2 said:

As someone who knows nothing about the fighting game community, or the people in it. I must say, this article is rather silly. Anytime you have any sort of serious competitive atmosphere there is going to be trash talking, and nothing in this article is especially over the top as far as trash talking goes. Go play some COD on Xbox Live and tell me that anything in this is crossing the line, because the shit you hear on there is about 100 times worse than this.

Trash talking is part of competition, ask any kind of professional athlete, they all do it. If you can't take the heat, get out of the metaphorical kitchen.

If you don't like being forced to sit in the back of the bus in Montgomery, Alabama, get out of the South. Oh wait.

Do you actually think that mutual trash talk in a competitive gaming culture that embraces trash talk is at all comparable to the legal and willful physical oppression of a race on public property?

That's so incredibly insulting and ignorant of an actual plight it's pathetic.

Posted by punpun

Ugh, that first video. What a piece of shit.

Posted by algertman

@MethodMan008 said:

Jim Sterling just took down his article about this whole thing on Dtoid at Miranda's request. Respect to Jim Sterling for once.

Fuck him. He was called out on his shit and responded like a pussy.

Posted by Chris86

@AxleFGK said:

Patrick, i'm going to ask for an apology, as a fan of your articles, and a member of the community you just labeled as a group of "sexist" "racist" "immature teenage homophobes" i found this article to be in poor tastes.

Who are you quoting? Patrick never said any of those things.

Posted by LaserLambert

@buckybit: #teamhumanity -also #freedomtogotoaneventwithoutbeingpersecutedagainstbecauseofmysex

Posted by Deathpooky

What amazes me most is not that he's excusing or downplaying the comments - that happens all the time - it's that he's actively defending them on their merits as a fun, integral part of the community, or that the community would be boring without them. It's part of the community and we'd be worse off if it wasn't acceptable to say "rape that bitch" in a public, quasi-professional setting. That's impressive.

Though he is correct. They aren't Starcraft. Starcraft decided to become professional and have standards for the commentators and players. There's some professionalism even if the commentators aren't self-serious at all times. There's trash talking, rivalries and competitiveness, but usually nothing that makes you uncomfortable to be watching. I've tried to tune into EVO or other fighting game streams and they're comparably unwatchable, with acceptance of things like this being one of the problems.

Posted by FoxMulder

I think a lot of it has to do with the double standard between men and women. There are many sayings or insults I would consider sexual harassment, but since I am a male, according to society I should be "man enough" to deal with it. If I were to be harassed at work and did say something about it, it would just add to further humiliation from the other male employees in out society. The only real comments that are considered sexual harassment towards men in America are those refering to homosexuality. For women it is something that is much more common so it tends to be accepted by the males in society that it is okay to talk like that. It has to do with culture's male dominance ideas that find their roots all the way back to the beginning of time. I'm not sure there will ever be a day in my lifetime when women are fully rexpected as much as men, but I can only hope that cultures can get over their preconceived notion of gender dominance.

Trash talk has it's place, but when it's directed towards the sexuality of a person that's when it crosses the line. Something sponsored by Capcom and open to live audiences should have a ban on trash talk and focus on the skill of the players; rather than how they can intimidate the other players with harsh words.