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Posted by YukoAsho

@Supah_Ted said:

Excellent article, Patrick. The peeps defending Arris obviously are upset they themselves have been exposed for the sexist, racist and homophobic filth that they are. There is never a excuse for acting like this, to anybody.

sadly, its not just in the fighting game community.

The difference is that the people who play and comment on MLG events for Call of Duty are not the same people on XBL screaming racism, sexism and homophobia. Aris wouldn't be anywhere near a big-money MLG Call of Duty event.

Posted by Supah_Ted

Excellent article, Patrick. The peeps defending Arris obviously are upset they themselves have been exposed for the sexist, racist and homophobic filth that they are. There is never a excuse for acting like this, to anybody.

sadly, its not just in the fighting game community.

Posted by TruthTellah

This is a real shame. I've quite enjoyed Bakhtanians' commentary during tournaments for a while now, but he is quite wrong on this.

People certainly have a right to say whatever they like, but tournaments and eSports also have the right to enforce their own standards of conduct within a tournament environment. And language like this is simply unacceptable. High-level fight gaming does not need to be held back by things like this; instead, people should perhaps start acting like adults and take responsibility for their actions. Trash talking is one thing, but harassing someone and alienating people from feeling welcome in the fight scene isn't right. And if fight gaming plans on continuing its eSports rise, standards for how people act in tournaments must be encouraged and enforced for the betterment of the sport and the fighting game community at large.

Posted by Mechabolic

@Hailinel: Have you never played a fighting game online? This is the norm. Curse Patrick for writing this and inciting the masses.

Posted by Hailinel

@thekingoftoilets said:

And here I thought I would write a wall of text expressing my thoughts of sexism and Aris, but then I realized trash talk was a part of gaming (especially in the FGC crowd) and got over it. She should have stepped up, ignored the asshole-ish remarks, and not let it get to her. She said it herself that she's had experience in the FGC, so why would stupid remarks like that get to her???

Why should stupid remarks like that be the norm? Can you explain that in a context that makes even a modicum of sense?

Posted by Dan_CiTi

@thekingoftoilets said:

And here I thought I would write a wall of text expressing my thoughts of sexism and Aris, but then I realized trash talk was a part of gaming (especially in the FGC crowd) and got over it. She should have stepped up, ignored the asshole-ish remarks, and not let it get to her. She said it herself that she's had experience in the FGC, so why would stupid remarks like that get to her???

Yeah, she has been a part of it for years, I've seen pictures of her at past EVOs. I guess the tension and pressure of this 14-hour-a-day training and then elimination with an daily changing challenge get to her.

Posted by SatinScorpion

@princess_zelda: @princess_zelda said:

of course he looks like that. lmao.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

When did Gimli pick up an arcade stick anyways?

Posted by Dan_CiTi

@Chris2KLee said:

@RetroVirus said:

@Hailinel

@Buzzkill said:

@RetroVirus said:

@Chris2KLee

Great article Patrick. It's definitely an issue, along with racism and homophobia that sometimes runs rampant in competitive video games. I don't see it going away tomorrow, but open discussion about it will help to hopefully find solutions and educate people on the dangers of carelessly throwing around derogatory comments.

Also, it's a sad day when I disagree with a man who looks like Gimli.

You and me both, man.

The bleeding hearts in this thread sicken me. "Gimli" was intelligent enough to get under the skin of his opponent. That just makes him all the more invincible.

He also spouts racist, idiotic rhetoric with casual abandon. That is not a person that is to be revered. That is the sign that he is a moron.

For the record I would just like to say that the bullshit this guy has been spouting is disgusting. None of this should be tolerated, and Aris should either pull a 180 attitude-wise (maybe unlikely) or get the fuck out of the spotlight.

Agreed. Guy wants to keep it "street" or whatever, he's free to go back to the arcades and hotel rooms he seems to think the community is still entirely about. Time moves forward, and if you don't like the change in scenery, get off the bus.

The community has responded to what has happened and they do not like it and the actual movers and shakers in the SF community at the very least have come out against what Aris did and how he acted. In fact Mike Ross was abused by Aris on stream too, where he yelled at him to take his clothes and came over to him and unbuttoned his dress shirt he had over his t-shirt. He also said racist things to him. They stated tonight that they want to be more proactive in doing what they have in their power in the community to be more proactive with this issue.

Posted by l3reak

Patrick you great. I was in a really big and diverse group of nerdy friends in college and now have a bunch of female gamer friends. This kinda shit is a real problem for half of the gaming community, and it's not just the fighting game side by any stretch of the imagination. It's not a matter of whether it's acceptable or not; if it doesn't stop you lose out on a lot of awesome potential gaming partners. You decide whether rape joke are more important to you than that.

Posted by Mechabolic

Wow, after reading more of these comments I find it funny that they call Ares out for being a jerk and then proceed to call him an idiot, hillbilly, jerk, asshole, ect. Though I suppose being hypocritical is part of being a "liberal". Why can't there be a nice middle ground? Now a days it seems you are either a disgusting redneck or a bleeding heart liberal that can't do too much because you are tiptoeing around trying not to offend anyone.

Posted by thekingoftoilets

And here I thought I would write a wall of text expressing my thoughts of sexism and Aris, but then I realized trash talk was a part of gaming (especially in the FGC crowd) and got over it. She should have stepped up, ignored the asshole-ish remarks, and not let it get to her. She said it herself that she's had experience in the FGC, so why would stupid remarks like that get to her???

Posted by jmic75

@Mechabolic said:

@jmic75: "I could get away with greeting a friend by saying "sup sucker", if I went around saying that to every stranger I saw, that wouldn't go over very well'

That depends, how fly are you?

Lol, the only man fly enough to get away with that is probably George Clooney....damn he's fly.

Posted by LiquidSwords

@Buzzkill said:

@RetroVirus said:

@Chris2KLee

Great article Patrick. It's definitely an issue, along with racism and homophobia that sometimes runs rampant in competitive video games. I don't see it going away tomorrow, but open discussion about it will help to hopefully find solutions and educate people on the dangers of carelessly throwing around derogatory comments.

Also, it's a sad day when I disagree with a man who looks like Gimli.

You and me both, man.

The bleeding hearts in this thread sicken me. "Gimli" was intelligent enough to get under the skin of his opponent. That just makes him all the more invincible.

Posted by tourgen

It could be that at least this guy would rather their little scene/club whatever stays small and isn't taken seriously. Anyway whatever. Maybe that's for the best. It seems like a big deal made out of nothing. Just some random dude being abrasive and rude.

Posted by Dan_CiTi

@Buzzkill said:

@soundlug said:

@Buzzkill: >Sportmanship only exists en fairy tales.

Well, that is like your very particular vision of reality and morality

Reality is that sportsmanship doesn't exist at all. Morality is just there to make you feel bad for winning so you can fit in with everyone else who felt bad for losing.

Sportsmanship only exists if you are good or a kid. Obviously none of these people are good at them game(besides a few Team SF players), if you have ever watched the show. Morality is there to make you feel bad for winning? That is the only purpose for morality in all of the idea's existence? Fuck no, and fuck "feeling bad for winning", unless you cheated. Then you're a fraud.

Posted by Chris2KLee

@RetroVirus said:

@Hailinel

@Buzzkill said:

@RetroVirus said:

@Chris2KLee

Great article Patrick. It's definitely an issue, along with racism and homophobia that sometimes runs rampant in competitive video games. I don't see it going away tomorrow, but open discussion about it will help to hopefully find solutions and educate people on the dangers of carelessly throwing around derogatory comments.

Also, it's a sad day when I disagree with a man who looks like Gimli.

You and me both, man.

The bleeding hearts in this thread sicken me. "Gimli" was intelligent enough to get under the skin of his opponent. That just makes him all the more invincible.

He also spouts racist, idiotic rhetoric with casual abandon. That is not a person that is to be revered. That is the sign that he is a moron.

For the record I would just like to say that the bullshit this guy has been spouting is disgusting. None of this should be tolerated, and Aris should either pull a 180 attitude-wise (maybe unlikely) or get the fuck out of the spotlight.

Agreed. Guy wants to keep it "street" or whatever, he's free to go back to the arcades and hotel rooms he seems to think the community is still entirely about. Time moves forward, and if you don't like the change in scenery, get off the bus.

Posted by benHaskett

As someone who didn't know that the "fighting game community" was enough of a thing to have a recognizable acronym, I'd say this is pretty cut-and-dry douchiness. I've never heard of a particular type of trash-talking to be integral to any kind of sport ("e" or otherwise), and don't see how staying away from gender-specific insults could ruin the fun. I've never heard of this guy, but it sounds like he just really wants to justify being mean, while using humor as a scapegoat. Whatevs...

Posted by Dan_CiTi

@Buzzkill said:

@august said:

@Buzzkill: Remeber when you were whining about how much content you were getting for your membership and threatening to ask for a refund and leaving?

I miss those days.

I got my refund. Ask Daniel. Anything else you care to fail at? I'm all ears.

@Buzzkill said:

@soundlug said:

@Buzzkill: So that hypothetical hockey player doesn't love his sport >

The world is full of people who do things they don't love to pay the bills. You'll understand this later kid.

You have a fitting name.

Posted by sthusby

@Bassman2112 said:

Patrick, thank you so much for writing this article. As a 20something who basically refuses to play online because of all the idiots on mics who think casual racism, misogyny and the like are totally fine, it's nice to finally see something about it on a public article. I have lots of female gamer friends who like to play online, but won't use a mic because the moment guys hear a girl's voice on the other end they start harassing them with brash, sexual and offensive comments. I don't think it's a matter of it being "esports versus a fun time," it's just common decency towards other people...

You sait it man. I'd like to see more articles surroundig the overall sad state of online gaming, and the lack of descency and humanity.

Posted by RetroVirus
@Hailinel

@Buzzkill said:

@RetroVirus said:

@Chris2KLee

Great article Patrick. It's definitely an issue, along with racism and homophobia that sometimes runs rampant in competitive video games. I don't see it going away tomorrow, but open discussion about it will help to hopefully find solutions and educate people on the dangers of carelessly throwing around derogatory comments.

Also, it's a sad day when I disagree with a man who looks like Gimli.

You and me both, man.

The bleeding hearts in this thread sicken me. "Gimli" was intelligent enough to get under the skin of his opponent. That just makes him all the more invincible.

He also spouts racist, idiotic rhetoric with casual abandon. That is not a person that is to be revered. That is the sign that he is a moron.

For the record I would just like to say that the bullshit this guy has been spouting is disgusting. None of this should be tolerated, and Aris should either pull a 180 attitude-wise (maybe unlikely) or get the fuck out of the spotlight.
Posted by Vague_Optimism

@Artigkar: He played the butchest drag queen I've ever seen. At least Patrick Swayze and John Leguizamo tried to soften up a bit for the role...

Posted by sthusby

What an idiot. I get really provoked by reading this. One would think we'd have come further in the 21st century, but hillbillies like him is holding us back.

Posted by august

@Buzzkill said:

@august said:

@Buzzkill said:

@august said:

@Buzzkill: Remeber when you were whining about how much content you were getting for your membership and threatening to ask for a refund and leaving?

I miss those days.

I got my refund. Ask Daniel. Anything else you care to fail at? I'm all ears.

I think you're confused about the point of my post. I don't give a shit if you got your refund or not. Congratulations though. I guess.

I'm not confused, I'm just not phased. Your post did nothing but give me a platform to prove you wrong, and you grats me in the process so I must have dinged. Forums lvl +1 woot!

What did you prove me wrong about, exactly?

Edited by Mechabolic

@jmic75: "I could get away with greeting a friend by saying "sup sucker", if I went around saying that to every stranger I saw, that wouldn't go over very well'

That depends, how fly are you?

Posted by Mechabolic

@Buzzkill: While I don't agree with you about everything you have been saying, I feel like this article was blown WAY out of proportion. Nothing new though, for every legitimate racism/sexist/ect case there are ten more people yelling racism/sexism/ect. See the Jennifer Hepler/Bioware debacle. I think this falls on the latter though i'm sure there are plenty of people ready to call me misogynistic just because of my opinion.

Edited by jmic75

Wow, pretty sad that some people are defending what this guy said, and blaming the woman. Talk about blaming the victim. There's a difference between trash taking a close friend who you know will not be offended, and being completely offensive to an acquaintance. It's called having tact and being aware and considerate of others, rather than being so self involved that you can't even see how it might be completely off base to say it. I could get away with greeting a friend by saying "sup sucker", if I went around saying that to every stranger I saw, that wouldn't go over very well and you'd quickly become a social pariah, as you should.

My advice to the people who think that kind of stuff is acceptable is to get out more, meet people who aren't just like you in your close knit group of friends, not everyone is the same and not everyone wants to be treated how you treat your friends. It isn't their fault that they are offended by your abrasiveness, it's yours for being so inconsiderate and thinking your way of doing things is the right way of doing things. The fight scene would not disappear if it had more mutual respect and decorum, it would probably benefit from it.

Posted by soundlug

@Hailinel: But... but... buzzkill said he was the Ubermensch

Posted by Ulong
@Buzzkill: The woman this misogynist was harassing was on his team, he was supposed to be coaching and supporting her. You really should try and read the article.
Posted by Hailinel

@Buzzkill said:

@RetroVirus said:

@Chris2KLee

Great article Patrick. It's definitely an issue, along with racism and homophobia that sometimes runs rampant in competitive video games. I don't see it going away tomorrow, but open discussion about it will help to hopefully find solutions and educate people on the dangers of carelessly throwing around derogatory comments.

Also, it's a sad day when I disagree with a man who looks like Gimli.

You and me both, man.

The bleeding hearts in this thread sicken me. "Gimli" was intelligent enough to get under the skin of his opponent. That just makes him all the more invincible.

He also spouts racist, idiotic rhetoric with casual abandon. That is not a person that is to be revered. That is the sign that he is a moron.

Posted by soundlug

@Buzzkill: He was her coach, not her opponent

Posted by lockwoodx

@august said:

@Buzzkill said:

@august said:

@Buzzkill: Remeber when you were whining about how much content you were getting for your membership and threatening to ask for a refund and leaving?

I miss those days.

I got my refund. Ask Daniel. Anything else you care to fail at? I'm all ears.

I think you're confused about the point of my post. I don't give a shit if you got your refund or not. Congratulations though. I guess.

I'm not confused, I'm just not phased. Your post did nothing but give me a platform to prove you wrong, and you grats me in the process so I must have dinged. Forums lvl +1 woot!

Posted by lockwoodx

@RetroVirus said:

@Chris2KLee

Great article Patrick. It's definitely an issue, along with racism and homophobia that sometimes runs rampant in competitive video games. I don't see it going away tomorrow, but open discussion about it will help to hopefully find solutions and educate people on the dangers of carelessly throwing around derogatory comments.

Also, it's a sad day when I disagree with a man who looks like Gimli.

You and me both, man.

The bleeding hearts in this thread sicken me. "Gimli" was intelligent enough to get under the skin of his opponent. That just makes him all the more invincible.

Posted by august

@Buzzkill said:

@august said:

@Buzzkill: Remeber when you were whining about how much content you were getting for your membership and threatening to ask for a refund and leaving?

I miss those days.

I got my refund. Ask Daniel. Anything else you care to fail at? I'm all ears.

I think you're confused about the point of my post. I don't give a shit if you got your refund or not. Congratulations though. I guess.

Posted by soundlug

@Buzzkill said:

"Yo dawg you threw me off my game because you were being racist/sexist"

Awww was that all it took? Good thing you weren't genuinely talented then, because hockey players lose teeth doing what they love and get back out on the ice, but one little word that bruises your ego and you want to quit and cry foul? ROFL.

@Buzzkill: But you said they loved what they do

Posted by m2cks

@churrific said:

@m2cks said:

@churrific said:

@m2cks said:

@churrific said:

@m2cks said:

@churrific said:

Like others have said, I wish Patrick would've gotten both sides of the story, including an insider's view from the community (not jared). Running the story without even speaking directly to the participants, or even getting a quote out of them, only provides a superficial glance at the situation and the community as a whole. A really negative one at that. No one's saying the FGC is perfect, but If you're gonna blow up a community, at least get some opposing viewpoints before using one man to paint a really ugly picture of a group of people to outsiders who have no exposure to them.

Yes, but note how he tried twice, unsuccessfuly, to reach out to Bakhtanians for his side of the story. Patrick shouldn't be blamed for being biased; rather he should be commended for trying. If you need someone to blame for this story sounding "one-sided", blame Bakhtanians for not responding.

I disagree. I don't think just trying a couple of times (unsuccessfully) to contact someone on twitter for a quote/discussion is enough due diligence... (and posting a cut-together video from youtube of all places as part of the article seems unprofessional to me).

Then I agree to disagree. For one, Patrick no doubt has a schedule, and with it, a deadline. I do not see it as unprofessional, but rather, efficient. Bakhtanians should have realized the best approach to quelling the situation is to approach it head-on, and not ignore it when he had the chance. Also, cut-together or not, it doesn't change the fact that he did indeed say such inappropriate words that in my opinion should not be overlooked or shrugged off. Them's the facts.

Yeah, I'm simply criticizing Patrick's journalism methods, not giving my opinion on the situation. I didn't realize that there's a deadline on a still-continuing story about some dickheaded comments on a reality show. Also, anyone can go through the archives and cut together any number of random comments super_yan made to make her look bad in a video. Youtube's just not a reliable news source.

And there's your problem: still-continuing or not, as a journalist, Patrick has a constant pressure and motivation to print and release his stories. There are always deadlines in his line of work. And of course, if there is any new information revolving around the story in particular, he will add onto it under the headline "UPDATE", as he has done before.

And there's your problem as well. "UPDATE" is too late. Some people, not saying you, won't get past their initial impressions of something they have no previous exposure to. Is it fair for that community to win trust and respect from outsiders when they're starting below the curve due to one article that's not fully researched (from my view)?

Well, though it may seem harsh, one should not assume the fighting game community here is going to be taking any sharp hits as to its population. I feel like those who have made up their minds to join the community have already done so, and those who choose to take this as what the community is as a whole were most likely not interested to join in the first place. All in all, this is only one article- I don't think it will deeply affect the community's health anytime soon.

Posted by RetroVirus
@Chris2KLee

Great article Patrick. It's definitely an issue, along with racism and homophobia that sometimes runs rampant in competitive video games. I don't see it going away tomorrow, but open discussion about it will help to hopefully find solutions and educate people on the dangers of carelessly throwing around derogatory comments.

Also, it's a sad day when I disagree with a man who looks like Gimli.

You and me both, man.
Posted by Frodofeet

Awesome job Patrick, thanks!

Posted by lockwoodx

@soundlug said:

@Buzzkill: So that hypothetical hockey player doesn't love his sport >

The world is full of people who do things they don't love to pay the bills. You'll understand this later kid.

Posted by soundlug

@Buzzkill: So that hypothetical hockey player doesn't love his sport >

Edited by lockwoodx

@august said:

@Buzzkill: Remeber when you were whining about how much content you were getting for your membership and threatening to ask for a refund and leaving?

I miss those days.

I got my refund. Ask Daniel. Anything else you care to fail at? I'm all ears.

Posted by august

@Buzzkill: Remeber when you were whining about how much content you were getting for your membership and threatening to ask for a refund and leaving?

I miss those days.

Posted by lockwoodx

@soundlug said:

@Buzzkill: But you said they are just doing it because money :(

Money, baubles, cred.... We all risk something for the sake of gaining something. He risked his reputation by playing the psychological game with the competition. If the competition would have beaten him regardless, then it's a hero's tale and happy ending. Instead the competition ran and cried to mommy (aka the internet) and it sickens me Patrick would sensationalize such a sob story but he use to work for MTV so it doesn't surprise me.

Posted by soundlug

@Buzzkill: Oh Boy, you are one of those

Posted by JJWeatherman

Just listened to the conversation about this on the podcast. It's baffling to me that some of these people see this awful behavior as being so closely tied to the fighting game community. I've always loved Jared and I'm glad he's continuing to shine light on the issue.

Edited by lockwoodx

@soundlug said:

@Buzzkill: >Sportmanship only exists en fairy tales.

Well, that is like your very particular vision of reality and morality

Reality is that sportsmanship doesn't exist at all. Morality is just there to make you feel bad for winning so you can fit in with everyone else who felt bad for losing.

Posted by soundlug

@Buzzkill: But you said they are just doing it because money :(

Posted by Yadilie

It is what it is. Multiplayer games have always been a genre where arguments and yelling starts easily. If you can't shit talk whether it's sexually derived or not then grow a backbone and man up.

Posted by soundlug

@Buzzkill: >Sportmanship only exists en fairy tales.

Well, that is like your very particular vision of reality and morality

Posted by lockwoodx

"Yo dawg you threw me off my game because you were being racist/sexist"

Awww was that all it took? Good thing you weren't genuinely talented then, because hockey players lose teeth doing what they love and get back out on the ice, but one little word that bruises your ego and you want to quit and cry foul? ROFL.

Edited by depecheload

@Buzzkill said:

@depecheload said:

@Buzzkill said:

I'm having a hard time digesting this. Are internet kiddies seriously outraged because sexuality was a factor in their video games? Seriously just lock the lot of them in a safe and sink it to the bottom of the ocean.

Parents in the 50s-60s were pissed their kids were hippies with long hair and peace loving. These days if you don't have a third nipple and enjoy cocks in any orifice, you're drummed out of social circles. Fuck children spending their parents money with opinions their educations couldn't even begin to fathom how absurd they are.

Did you even read the article?

Seriously, it's like you look a bunch of random words together to make a response. Nothing you said has any bearing on anything that was mentioned in the article. Yikes.

It has everything to do with this article. It's called grow thicker skin and learn to roll with the punches. Gaming is a competition and adversity will always exist. I don't care if you're black, white, female, male, whatever. When I'm beating your ass down in a game I'll cal you bitch or whatever. The overly sensitive generations beneath me keep getting sadder and softer with each one, and my elders would say the same about me so in conclusion...

as gamers stop being little bitches. Male or female you're there to compete, which means you're going to get trash talked. Deal with it.

First of all, google "sexuality" and see that you're using the wrong word.

Secondly, "grow thicker skin" has to be the STUPIDST thing I've ever heard. So kids who are bullied to the point of wanting to kill themselves should just "suck it up?" Women who are catcalled on a daily basis should just ignore it? People who are beaten down for their sexual orientation should just roll with it? Based on your logic, racism is okay in a sports setting I guess, because hey, i'ts "just trash talk"

Your "argument" boils down to this: You're an entitled male who feels threatened now because one of the tools you use to oppress women/minorities (slurs and insults) is being called into question by a society that is finally wising up to this bullshit. Cry me a river. Don't like it, go join a "men's rights' forum and complain with other virgins about how strong women are ruining everything for real men like you.

Go away.

ETA: Just saw your reply about sportsmanship too. Wow. Nevermind. You're obviously too far gone in your own world of entitlement that you're a lost cause. Go have fun saying "bitch" to your friends, I'll be engaging in intelligent conversation with adults.