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Edited by Phished0ne

What i think the whole thing boils down to is that they were on a reality show. They were on a reality show that was trying to be kept appropriate for most ages(hence not being able to swear). But where it breaks down is that the people running Cross Assault were probably so thrilled by the spectacle that was being created for the show by Aris, that their judgement was clouded when it came to punishing him for his behavior.

I suggest you try reaching out to http://www.capcom-unity.com/mattd/ and see if he can speak about it at all. He was the host of CrossAssault(and i assume, the person in charge). He is also the Senior Product Manager in the fighting game division of Capcom. I doubt you can gleen anything from him due to his position at capcom, but it might be worth a shot. I really have to commend giantbomb for their coverage of this. It was a lot less finger-pointy at the whole FGC, and instead more pointed at where it was deserved, Aris. I would love to see a more in-depth article about CrossAssault and its effect on the community. I think it would be great if you could manage to score an interview with MattD, but once again i doubt that would be possible. I just want to know what the hell happened at capcom offices those days that prevented them from taking action against Aris, he clearly crossed the line. I beg you Patrick, don't listen to anything those jerks at SRK say. That site is pretty terrible, i mean look at the differences between Inkblot's article he wrote before Kotaku covered the Aris scandal, and the article he wrote after Kotaku covered ETR and Marn's actions on Wednesday Night Fight. SRK is just a site worried about making money now it seems, and they bend at the spine to do whatever outside forces think the community they supposedly represets should do. They do have good guides and forums(to some extent) but a lot of the 'editorial content' written for that place is gutter trash(shoutouts to Dudley!) Especially articles written by Tom "Inkblot" Cannon.

Posted by Enigma_2099

Assholes say the damndest things, don't they?

Posted by cikame

Chill out.

Posted by Gregomasta

@Jethuty said:

@RurouniGeo said:

@patrickklepek: Patrick my thing on this is you even said/joked on twitter about Jim Sterling and how you were racing to get this story out. THats not cool and its not the good Journalism I've come to expect from you. I must admit to patrick haters that I've cringed at certain points in videos and things but I've always loved your writing except this. You reached out on twitter to....5 or 6 people in a community with 300 or so big names and then took it on yourself to do what everyone else from Destructiod, Penny Arcade and Kotaku did and run a rare juicy gossipy story that we get so few of in videogames.

I'm sure someone has linked you to LI Joe's stream where Aris and players on the Cross Assault show called in and talked right? Sherry Jenix, Aris, and Dr. Sub Zero had all called in by 10 or 11pm pacific time monday night. There was tons more information out there and the video game media just pieced together forum posts, youtube videos, and twitter for their stories. Furthermore these people are dead tired and stresed. They have to sit and play a game for nearly 12 hours everyday and have that $25K hanging over their heads so give them some time. Also I'm sure you are familiar with non disclosure agreements sometimes not telling people you are under one is part of the agreement right?

I expected poor journalism and rushed articles from other news outlets Patrick but not you and giant bomb. Especially after that great Noah article a while back.

Your colleagues can come out and say that "the media isn't their to support their scene" (also reversaly the community isnt here to meet your deadlines and do interviews on your timetable) and thats fine and good if the media is doing its job and being fair. Penny Arcade and Destructiod both got facts wrong and they are still taking to twitter and whatever else and lashing out at the problematic community and how bad press that reflects on the whole is our fault and not theirs.

This goes to everyone: Watch I got next, King of Chinatown Fair or any of the other great Arcade/Fighting game community documentaries that so many people worked hard on that game out last year. That's the soul of the community. Talk about Uncle Alex Valle the coach on team street fighter and the hundreds of tournaments he's sponsors and the players he's helped.

I have faith in you Patrick that if anyone can give the story the context it needs you can. I'm not asking you to brush aside whats happened or to write a positive things about the community but don't throw us all under the bus like everyone else.

Also for the record my street fighter 4 training partner is a transgendered person. We are extremely welcoming of all people no matter your disability, gender, orientation, or race. Aris and the west coast isn't the entire fighting game community.

This, and watch "focus" too.

Agreed, and watch this as well.

That video has nothing to do with Aris and Miranda. I hope I can enlighten the gb community to what the fighting game community is all about. The man speaking is Larry, "ShinBlanka", he runs the Final Round tournoment. His mother died 2 days prior to Friday's tournament.

Posted by RedRavN

This seems like it should be an issue between aris and the girl Miranda to me. It seems to me that there is a big difference between sexual harrassment and being an insensitive jerk. It should be up to the Miranda how things should proceed. Whats with all the people that are offended and stepping in for her? She did not seem particularly traumatized by the incident and some people seem convinced that aris sawed off her leg and that she is permanently traumatized. I think the FGC should be able to self regulate and have there own set of standards for acceptable behavior.

Its kind of like saying that a heavy metal concert is to loud and full of lewd and rude people. If you don't like the scene then find another that you can belong to. As far as I know, its not a crime to make fun of people. I suppose harassment is a very subjective thing and I think if the victims here have a complaint they should file it and the managment should take action. If there is no actual complaint then why does anything need to change. As far as I gather, the actual fighting game community seems rather content with there ways and the people that are offended are just outsiders that feel like they have the right to force their opinions on a group of people. This incident does not even reflect the community at large and is a specific incident between two individuals.

I do not believe that aris's behavior was right especially as a public spectacle and if I was a manager I would make sure that it does not happen again. I feel bad for the women who were mistreated. However, as an outsider I do not think my opinion should matter at all. As long as no laws were broken then I do not see an issue with the internal community dealing with the problem.

Posted by benson

@Hailinel said:

As for StarCraft, it is a scene that is largely under the control of Blizzard because unlike fighting games or MOBA titles, it is focused entirely on one game, and many StarCraft tournaments and events are officially sanctioned and sponsored by Blizzard. Now, if Blizzard were to host a Cross Assault-like reality show in which the Team Zerg captain sexually harassed one of his own team members to the point that she throws a match just to be done with him, then not only the community, but Blizzard itself would have a problem because the community is tied specifically to Blizzard's product.

Interestingly enough, there was an incident at Blizzcon last year relating to homophobia http://gaygamer.net/2011/10/antigay_speech_at_blizzcon_201.html and the story progressed in a similar way: at first it was all "it's just a joke you guys, don't be so sensitive" but once enough people started complaining they apologized and said they would take measures to make sure it wouldn't happen again.

Edited by Phished0ne

@churrific: Yes, Broly's story is an amazing one. I'm glad a lot of these things are being discussed here. Aris damaged the FGC, and part of the patching that has to be done, is counteracting with all the good stories that never get published.

Posted by Claude
@churrific: Great video, thanks for posting.
Edited by churrific

@Hailinel: Maybe we'll hear more from Capcom now that the show just finished up earlier tonight (probably not I think).

@Phished0ne: That's a cool video and great moment. It got me to looking up some more positive FGC-related things just out of curiosity, and I found like the best example of acceptance from anywhere, let alone the FGC, that I've seen in quite awhile. Lol, I'm sorry, but there's just no way this one ugly incident represents what that whole community is about.

Posted by Hailinel

@Phished0ne said:

@Hailinel said:

Now, if Blizzard were to host a Cross Assault-like reality show in which the Team Zerg captain sexually harassed one of his own team members to the point that she throws a match just to be done with him, then not only the community, but Blizzard itself would have a problem because the community is tied specifically to Blizzard's product.

Although, that would never happen because Blizzard is a lot classier than to stoop to producing a 'reality show'. =P

But that brings up a point, why hasnt capcom come under much fire for this? Im not trying to scapegoat for Aris because as i have stated a lot in this thread, i have always disliked him. But it took place in Capcom's HQ, and they had people making sure no one swore(much) or broke rules. Hell, after day one twitter was blowing up calling team Tekken 'team sexual harrassment'. Using the Cross Assault hashtag even. why didn't they step in? I wonder if the idea of it being a 'reality show' clouded the producers judgement.

I don't know the answer to that question. I don't know who Capcom had monitoring the events, and I don't know why Aris's behavior was allowed to carry on for so long. I would love to know the reasoning for all of this. There are a lot of questions that need answering, but too few are willing to speak openly.

Online
Edited by Phished0ne

@Hailinel said:

Now, if Blizzard were to host a Cross Assault-like reality show in which the Team Zerg captain sexually harassed one of his own team members to the point that she throws a match just to be done with him, then not only the community, but Blizzard itself would have a problem because the community is tied specifically to Blizzard's product.

Although, that would never happen because Blizzard is a lot classier than to stoop to producing a 'reality show'. =P

But that brings up a point, why hasnt capcom(or at least the department in capcom that produced the show) come under much fire for this? Im not trying to scapegoat for Aris because as i have stated a lot in this thread, i have always disliked him. But it took place in Capcom's HQ, and they had people making sure no one swore(much) or broke rules. Hell, after day one twitter was blowing up calling team Tekken 'team sexual harrassment'. Using the Cross Assault hashtag even. why didn't they step in? I wonder if the idea of it being a 'reality show' clouded the producers judgement. I guess they were kind of in a rough spot though, they couldn't throw Aris off the show, because that would leave Team Tekken without a coach, but im sure they could've come up with something.

Posted by Hailinel

@Phished0ne said:

@Hailinel: I just wonder if it happened in one of those communities if there would be as much demonization of the community as a whole. I also wonder if someone in the SC or DOTA community said that if it would've been covered by PA, Destructioid, Kotaku, Giantbomb, et all. Im sure the response would be the same, i just wonder if the coverage would've been the same. As much as the FGC loves to tout how long they have been around, they have been in the light for a lot less longer than a lot of other competitive gaming institutions. The press is practically beating up an infant.

DOTA hasn't been around for nearly as long as fighting games or the community that spawned around them. As a genre, it's still in its formative stages to the point that people can't even agree on what to call it. I too have heard the horror stories of newcomers to DOTA who were received with hostility, but from my experience, DOTA and its ilk are still not as public or as popular in the same sense as fighting games. However, my knowledge of the MOBA scene is severely limited; I have never played a game in the genre and have little interest in keeping up with the community to any extent. However, if a huge Cross Assault-like blow-up were to occur, I have no doubt that I'd be seeing coverage of it.

As for StarCraft, it is a scene that is largely under the control of Blizzard because unlike fighting games or MOBA titles, it is focused entirely on one game, and many StarCraft tournaments and events are officially sanctioned and sponsored by Blizzard. Now, if Blizzard were to host a Cross Assault-like reality show in which the Team Zerg captain sexually harassed one of his own team members to the point that she throws a match just to be done with him, then not only the community, but Blizzard itself would have a problem because the community is tied specifically to Blizzard's product.

Online
Posted by Phished0ne

@Hailinel: I just wonder if it happened in one of those communities if there would be as much demonization of the community as a whole. I also wonder if someone in the SC or DOTA community said that if it would've been covered by PA, Destructioid, Kotaku, Giantbomb, et all. Im sure the response would be the same, i just wonder if the coverage would've been the same. As much as the FGC loves to tout how long they have been around, they have been in the light for a lot less longer than a lot of other competitive gaming institutions. The press is practically beating up an infant.

Posted by Hailinel

@Phished0ne said:

@Hailinel: That is a fair assessment. But i dont really know any other competitive gaming scenes to compare against it. I've heard some bad things about trying to enter the SC scene or the DOTA thought too. I've heard horror stories about people trying to learn DOTA games. So i dont really know how much you can say its just the FGC that has that problem.

It's not necessarily FGC-specific. However, all of this talk started because of the crass behavior of someone from within the community that behaved like a caveman in a forum far more public than what he was apparently used to. If a similar incident were to happen with regards to the StarCraft or DOTA communities, I'm sure that the larger response would also be the same.

Online
Edited by Phished0ne

@Hailinel: That is a fair assessment. But i dont really know any other competitive gaming scenes to compare against it. Although I've heard horror stories about people trying to learn DOTA games. So i dont really know how much you can say its just the FGC that has that problem. But a lot of communities in general have that problem. These forums can be like that, and i know as a young Phish fan i got a lot of shit from people entrenched in the community about how my opinion didn't matter because i am fairly new to the band due to my age. But what it boils down to is ignoring the jerks.

Posted by Hailinel

@Phished0ne: On the other hand, I have never known the FGC at large to be all that interested in promoting itself outside of its community. It has always struck me as being very insular, with some particularly hostile members treating it as the secret treehouse club where you're not welcome if you're so new to the genre that you couldn't throw a hadouken to save your life or if you happen to prefer games in the genre that aren't favored by the competitive scene.

Online
Edited by Phished0ne

@Creamypies said:

The fighting game community should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

It's absolutely disgraceful. The analogy that Bakhtanians made about sexual harassment being part of the scene and if it was taken away it "wouldn't be the same" is quite honestly one of the stupidest comments I've heard in my entire life. I hope he burns.

We need to get Jared on the Bombcast again!

no, the FGC shouldn't be ashamed of themselves, Aris should be ashamed of HIMSELF. I've never heard any competitive fighter or commentator who pointed out Aris as one of the heads of the community. Maybe one of the Tekken community, but i wouldn't even go that far. He has always been a jerk, and the few times he's been allowed on streams he's made an ass of HIMSELF. People need to stop making this reflect on the whole community. It may be a problem, but as i've stated, and they stated on the bombcast, its not JUST a problem in the FGC, its a problem in gaming, forums, and the internet in general. Aris has made a career out of catering to the stream trolls, the lowest common denominator of any competitive gaming sector. Capcom chose him for Cross Assault FOR THIS REASON, they had to know about Aris, and they brought him in to make the reality show entertaining. Capcom just shot a missile into the FGC in the process of their self-aggrandizing.

Meanwhile, in Atlanta:

THAT is the real FGC, not some fucking reality show bullshit. The real shame is that things like that will never get covered by the big sites like Kotaku. No one will report about it's Final Round's 15th anniversary, or how its became one of the biggest tournaments on the East Coast. How the community across the continent is currently donating to help pay for Larry's moms funeral, Or how the FGC raised money for Japan Tsunami relief. How the community is rapidly growing. Or how the vast majority of people in the FGC aren't assholes, because it doesn't garner page views.

Edited by Creamypies

The fighting game community should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

It's absolutely disgraceful. The analogy that Bakhtanians made about sexual harassment being part of the scene and if it was taken away it "wouldn't be the same" is quite honestly one of the stupidest comments I've heard in my entire life. I hope he burns.

We need to get Jared on the Bombcast again!

Posted by thebigJ_A

I'm sorry, no. You don't get to make disgusting statements, that clearly reflect your opinion, and then go "I didn't mean it like that" and expect everyone to forgive you.

This douche was actually astonished that someone might think screaming "rape that bitch" might be inappropriate. This douche actually argued that taking away sexual harassment would be a bad thing. Because, you know, it's 'part of a culture'. That's like saying lynch mobs were part of KKK culture, so it was bad when those stopped, or that homophobia is part of Christian culture, so we shouldn't work to eradicate that part of it.

Some days, I weep for humanity.

Keep up the good work Patrick. This was already one of my favorite sites, now it's gotten better.

Posted by AiurFlux

@langdonx said:

@AiurFlux said:

So competition outside the lines of corporate influence makes phrases such as "Rape that bitch!" or "Fuck that whore up!" completely acceptable? It means that new competitive talent should be shunned endlessly? It means that a woman should be berated repeatedly by asking her what her bra size is as well as other sexist drivel?

Somebody crack this fucking moron upside the head with a crowbar. Please. I beg of you.

So in summary:

  • Not OK: Suggesting that someone playing a video game rape a character they're fighting against.
  • OK: Beating another human being with a crowbar over a difference of opinion.

You know what, fine. Take your brownie point. A game character shouldn't matter. There's a difference between virtual reality and reality, clearly. However what he did say in the span of his cast makes the guy look like a complete fucking moron. When two girls are playing and saying that you're going to make a prize out of the one that wins is acceptable? Asking about bra size on air is acceptable? Taking the FUCKING STREAM CAMERA and zooming it in on one's breasts and buttocks is acceptable? There's a difference between saying something clearly in jest and flat out continually sexually harassing someone.

And yes, clubbing pieces of shit like this upside the head with a crowbar is acceptable far as I'm concerned now. If she has a boyfriend/brother/husband/father/etc. I'd hope that he'd do it. Pieces of shit like this give men a bad name. Pieces of shit like this are the reason why I have to do sensitivity training every 3 months despite the fact that I'm not a social reject and/or retard. It's not opinion, it's fucking common sense.

Now have a good day and do me a favour, fuck off.

Posted by YukoAsho

@Toms115: Ah, missed that part of the statement. Guess I'm too used to the "out of context" excuse from bullshit politicians.

Of course his statements reflect himself, who else are they going to reflect on? You don't get more clear in your opinion than saying "...the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community..."

Dude's just butthurt he'll never see money in fighting games again.

Posted by Toms115

@YukoAsho said:

@Toms115 said:

My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself.

nice try. doesn't absolve you of being a giant douchenozzle.

In a way, he's right. Capcom will never, EVER let him anywhere near one of their sponsored events, so he'll never get to speak for them again.

i was more talking about him saying that his own comments that came from his own mouth somehow don't represent him, but yea. if capcom don't want to alienate an entire gender, they'd probably want to avoid the beardy asshole in the future.

Posted by YukoAsho

@Toms115 said:

My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself.

nice try. doesn't absolve you of being a giant douchenozzle.

In a way, he's right. Capcom will never, EVER let him anywhere near one of their sponsored events, so he'll never get to speak for them again.

Posted by benson

So now that the article isn't on the front page and everything's been discussed to death, is it time for FUNNY VIDEOS? Yes it is! Here's one explaining why Marn is a piece of shit:

Posted by TeflonBilly

@benson: Yeah, you're right. I was going for the electric chair comment being tounge in cheek, but it seems that didn't come across so well (I almost wrote "Exiled to a gulag in Siberia" instead, but it'd probably garner the same response).

Most of my posts tend to lean towards a sillier side than what I've posted in this thread.

Posted by benson

@TeflonBilly: I get where you're coming from and you have every right to express your concern, but you need to realize that when DesertDog says that Aris should be ostracised and you go straight to "You sound quite content with him just as well getting the electric chair for this", you're going down the same slippery slope that you're so afraid of and you poison the debate. It doesn't help anyone, and frankly it makes our side look bad! If you want to prove that the FGC isn't composed of manchildren, being calm and collected will look way better than getting angry and putting words in the mouth of others.

On another note, I agree that the way Jeff and Patrick commented on this story in the Bombcast was great, and I'm really curious to see what Patrick's follow-up will look like. He seems to really care about journalistic integrity so I'm pretty sure that he's going to adress the whole "hey don't use this story as an excuse to gang-up on the FGC" angle.

Posted by TeflonBilly

@benson: I probably am being a tad hyperbolic and paranoid, but the notion of catering to kneejerk reactions from indignant and/or ignorant masses which might end up hurting a subculture, wether intentionally or not, gives me a sour taste in my mouth.

I'm just hoping to see some more reasoned responses and reactions and hopefully some more nuanced coverage a la the way Jeff and Patrick articulated themselves on the Bombcast rather than the frankly dire reporting I've seen otherwise.

Posted by benson

@TeflonBilly said:

@DesertDog: See I'd rather see Aris go to a sexual harassment seminar or sensitivity training and actually speak out to the community which he obviously is a huge part of about this experience. I don't follow Tekken that closely, but he has been one of the main forces in that camp and would be a huge loss for them. Maybe I'm just being naive in believing in people being able to improve if you give them a chance. You sound quite content with him just as well getting the electric chair for this.

I call this a potential witch hunt for a lack of a better word (Sorry, but English isn't my first language) because this kneejerk hysteria has already shown how easily someone like ETR can be thrown under the bus as @Phished0ne said because of overreaching and overcompensating for this.

Come on now, your heart is in the right place and I understand why you're concerned about the FGC being unfairly criticized by some, but you're getting really hyperbolic and you misrepresent the opinion of others. Sure Kotaku are scum and LevelUp went too far (even though I still think that taking radical actions and drawing a line in the sand was the right thing to do) but the FGC isn't going to be destroyed. No one is going to take our hype away.

Posted by Toms115
My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself.

nice try. doesn't absolve you of being a giant douchenozzle.

Posted by TeflonBilly

@DesertDog: See I'd rather see Aris go to a sexual harassment seminar or sensitivity training and actually speak out to the community which he obviously is a huge part of about this experience. I don't follow Tekken that closely, but he has been one of the main forces in that camp and would be a huge loss for them. Maybe I'm just being naive in believing in people being able to improve if you give them a chance. You sound quite content with him just as well getting the electric chair for this.

I call this a potential witch hunt for a lack of a better word (Sorry, but English isn't my first language) because this kneejerk hysteria has already shown how easily someone like ETR can be thrown under the bus as @Phished0ne said because of overreaching and overcompensating for this.

Edited by Phished0ne

@DesertDog: If someone is caught in the crossfire because of relatively harmless comments they made. It then counts as a Witchhunt also, IMO. Its right for Aris to come under fire, its right for there to be scrutiny against the FGC right now. But Kotaku effectively helped get someone kicked out of a position they love doing. That they love doing not because they get payed, but because they want to do what they can to give back to the community. It was almost slanderous what Kotaku did to ETR. They made him seem like a monster. I'm sure a lot of the people in the community are frustrated and embarrassed by Aris right now. But ETR shouldn't have to be embarrassed too(and if you read his blog post i posted a few responses above he is clearly embarrassed), his comments were mere crumbs compared to the full plate of food that was Aris' actions/words.

Posted by DesertDog

@TeflonBilly said:

Yup, sure sounds like you want to have people reform rather than suffer complete ostracism and blackballing.

And yes, I use the phrase "white knights" for guys who think they know better than the girl herself does. It's obvious that she was hurt and I'm sure she appreciated the support during this horrible ordeal, but from all intents and purposes she seems to be trying to get on and use this to better the community. Not dwell on it and let it tear it apart. However the likes of you don't seem to have their vengelust sated and are still going on a full on attack rather than trying to use this as a springboard for both healing and reform.

Not once have I defended Aris or his reprehensible actions in this thread and done nothing but a call for him to lose any sort figurehead position in the FGC if they are to be taken seriously onward, but I have severe reservations against how this potential witchunt will progress when I see the one sided and terrible coverage the aftermath has gotten as well as the fallout which includes Marn's stupid commentary.

I've already said exactly what I hope happens to people who are guilty of doing the same kinds of things that Aris has done so I'll ignore the first part. As for the rest you're assuming you know what the intentions of other people are. This is the same problem you've had all along. As far as the consequences of the "terrible coverage" that's just your opinion. I think the right things are happening and nothing so far has come close to any sort of "witch hunt" because again it's the wrong word. Witchhunts were wrong because witches don't actually exist. People who make sexist, racist, and generally abusive comments towards other people do exist and yes those people should be hunted down, pointed out, ostracized, and isolated from the rest of the community in order for the entire fighting game community to grow as a whole and mature.

Posted by Phished0ne

@DesertDog: I dont know that you can say that if he truly didnt mean it all will be made clear. It all depends on how serious LevelUp wants to be. Hell, ETR is probably a better guy than this, But i know if i was him i would be bitter as fuck. The guys at LevelUp threw him under the bus. This is coming from someone who has donated money to LevelUp. Instead of warning him, and issuing a statement that says he will be put on commentary probation or something like that, they flat out banned him. I dont think anyone at LevelUp really thinks he was being serious. They are just putting on a show for all the people that now have their eyes trained on the FGC because of Aris.

I still hold, almost solely because of Kotaku. I don't believe that Evan Narcisse is interested in the FGC, he watched WNF(if he even did) to do exactly what he did do. Wait for someone to inevitably make light of the situation(Because humans naturally joke about things they are trying to cope with) and write an article about how the FGC is full of inhuman monsters. He stated on twitter that he "watched the whole WNF segment" whatever that means, and he(or someone else) cherry-picked around one minute and 30 seconds of an hour and 30 minute(at least, i didnt see that particular WNF because i was without internet) broadcast.

Posted by TeflonBilly
People should be calling on the FGC community to conduct a witchhunt because the witches actually exist. Starting with Aris the fattest witch of them all.

Yup, sure sounds like you want to have people reform rather than suffer complete ostracism and blackballing.

And yes, I use the phrase "white knights" for guys who think they know better than the girl herself does. It's obvious that she was hurt and I'm sure she appreciated the support during this horrible ordeal, but from all intents and purposes she seems to be trying to get on and use this to better the community. Not dwell on it and let it tear it apart. However the likes of you don't seem to have their vengelust sated and are still going on a full on attack rather than trying to use this as a springboard for both healing and reform.

Not once have I defended Aris or his reprehensible actions in this thread and done nothing but a call for him to lose any sort figurehead position in the FGC if they are to be taken seriously onward, but I have severe reservations against how this potential witchunt will progress when I see the one sided and terrible coverage the aftermath has gotten as well as the fallout which includes Marn's stupid commentary.

Posted by DesertDog

@TeflonBilly said:

because obviously the likes of you will not be happy until that "fat witch" Aris or someone like them suffers something horribly rather than maybe learning their lesson and growing as human beings instead.

Nice way to assume to know what I want. To think that you know anything about me about what I'm thinking. Just the fact that you're saying that those of us who are defending Miranda and are upset over what Aris did and should suffer the consequences are "white knights" shows exactly where your belief systems lies. The only thing I believe Aris should suffer is a fade into oblivion as the greatest insult to a person is to isolate and ignore them. What's the old saying? Don't assume because it makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me"?

Just change racist for sexist or sexual harassment.

Posted by TeflonBilly

@DesertDog: No, everybody should not be walking around on eggshells. I'm not saying that a little more sensitivity about the issue wouldn't have been better form, but you are now turning this into a public flogging of whoever even says a slight thing.

Super_Yan is obviously trying to get over it, but overzealous white knights like yourself who seem to kow better than her about what she feels are just making the situation worse now. The FGC are obviously trying to self police and improve now, but outsiders much as yourself aren't having any of it and are ready to be the paragons of virtue who wield judgement.

The South Park pic is more than apropos, because obviously the likes of you will not be happy until that "fat witch" Aris or someone like them suffers something horribly rather than maybe learning their lesson and growing as human beings instead.

You seem like a very angry and unreasonably hateful person

Posted by DesertDog

@TeflonBilly: You're still acting stupid. If ETR didn't mean it then it will all be made clear and he will truly rebound and come back from this.

EVERYBODY SHOULD BE WALKING ON EGGSHELLS.

It's too soon to be making jokes about it. Something bad happened to another human being and partaking in the ridicule of that situation is wrong. There is a time and a place and a way to do it to make those kinds of jokes and be respectful. The way they did was not. Thanks for posting the SouthPark pic. Shows exactly what kind of person you are and where you're coming from and everybody can go back to ignoring and not giving a crap about what you say now.

Posted by TeflonBilly

See. This is what I feared when I used a word like "witchhunt" earlier. ETR has been dragged down in an overzealous reprimand because of Marn's (Who seems cut from the same cloth as Aris) idiocy.

Everybody are walking on eggshells now because they're under such scrutiny from a sensationalist tabloid press that are salivating for some juicy gossip like some TMZ vultures.

But of course, even voicing these concerns were apparently stupid, so don't mind me

Edited by benson

@Hailinel: @Phished0ne: Oh if that's how it happened then yeah it's definitely fishy.

I also find it really precious how Kotaku acts like the arbitrer of morals when they have a long and storied history of misogyny and homophobia.

Posted by Phished0ne

@Hailinel said:

@benson said:

@Phished0ne: I agree with you, a warning would have been more appropriate, but are we sure that LevelUp took this decision only because of Kotaku? I watched the stream live and I remember thinking "Oh God ETR please make that sociopath Marn shut the hell up, cut his mic, do something".

Don't get me wrong I have nothing but contempt for Kotaku like any sane individual and I feel like they did their article to profit off the controversy, but I think it's entirely possible that LevelUp decided on their own to show that they were willing to take action.

It's worth noting that it was Kotaku's article that provoked inkblot at SRK to write a more serious column on confronting the issue when just yesterday he was posted that cheerleading fluff piece. It's funny how fast he went from "we need to confront this eventually" to "we need to confront this right now."

Oh yeah, dont get me started about SRK. That place is a joke anymore when it comes to editorial content. I think its safe to say that there was mixture between the SRK reaction, and Kotaku article that forced Levelup's hand. Especially considering that SRK was a sponsor of LevelUp. But if SRK was going to pull sponsorship regardless, as it was mentioned in the same levelup post about Marn and ETR getting booted. Why bother boothing them? i guess just to keep up appearances for a future sponsorship and trying the EVO points thing again.

Posted by Phished0ne

@benson: Well, no one can say for sure, but with the way Kotaku was covering the whole thing, i think it would be a safe assumption to make. I mean, Kotaku posted the article about Marn and ETR at 11:45. While it is true Leveup's statement was released around 4 pm, they INSTANTLY fired off a tweet to the writer of the article to let them know they handled the situation. I'd say its fair that the negative press coverage pressured them into taking action. Look at it this way, Levelup has never felt the need to ban anyone from the mic for off color remarks, even after the statements from TastySteve i listed previously.

If you watched that *amazing* kotaku recap video, they pointed out the "nos girls" moment. The writer at K felt it was especially bad when the commentators talked about the attractiveness of the women and 'which ones they have dibs on'. Not something to be done in front of a bunch of people on a live stream, so of course a judgement error. But That tweet featuring a photo of attractive women in bikinis didnt appear out of nowhere. There was a producer(Offcast or AJ Potatohead) who decided it would be a good idea to put that up on the screen. Maybe putting that specific tweet up on the screen given what was going on currently wasn't the best idea. Once again, just pointing out how many different ways there are to look at this. But Of course Kotaku isnt going to point those things out, or cover anything positive, like ETR's blog post.

In the end, its something they touched upon in the latest bombcast, its not just a problem with the FGC, its a problem with gaming in general. Women get treated like shit by male gamers. Its something that is going to have to be overcome. But Kotaku's 'reporting' isnt going to help. Especially when they go "oh its a problem with THOSE people, not us, we are the normal people". Hell, lets broaden this more, as we've seen on these very forums, it isnt even a problem with women in video games, its a problem with women on the internet in general. It's a terrible thing, but its something that we are still currently dealing with.

Edited by Hailinel

@benson said:

@Phished0ne: I agree with you, a warning would have been more appropriate, but are we sure that LevelUp took this decision only because of Kotaku? I watched the stream live and I remember thinking "Oh God ETR please make that sociopath Marn shut the hell up, cut his mic, do something".

Don't get me wrong I have nothing but contempt for Kotaku like any sane individual and I feel like they did their article to profit off the controversy, but I think it's entirely possible that LevelUp decided on their own to show that they were willing to take action.

It's worth noting that it was Kotaku's article that provoked inkblot at SRK to write a more serious column on confronting the issue when just yesterday he posted that cheerleading fluff piece. It's funny how fast he went from "we need to confront this eventually" to "we need to confront this right now."

Online
Edited by benson

@Phished0ne: I agree with you, a warning would have been more appropriate, but are we sure that LevelUp took this decision only because of Kotaku? I watched the stream live and I remember thinking "Oh God ETR please make that sociopath Marn shut the hell up, cut his mic, do something".

Don't get me wrong I have nothing but contempt for Kotaku like any sane individual and I feel like they did their article to profit off the controversy, but I think it's entirely possible that LevelUp decided on their own to show that they were willing to take action.

Edited by Phished0ne

@benson said:

ETR completely gets it and what he writes makes me respect him a whole lot.

ETR: I do not think matters like this should be taken lightly, and if there was a point where I lost that perspective, even for a slight moment in time, that is solely my responsibility and nobody elses.

I hope he doesn't feel too alienated from the scene and quickly comes back.

Yeah as i stated earlier, its really a shame that he had to be thrown into the crossfire. He seems to be well liked and respected in the community from what i've seen(hell, he followed me, a nobody on twitter, so he cant be a bad guy right??). it's a shame LevelUp couldn't be more lenient with him. Not even giving him a warning? seems pretty crazy to me, especially when LevelUp had been grooming him and helping him become a better commentator for so long. Seems so weird to just outright ban him, especially just because Kotaku covered it. Level up is starting down a slippery slope, i just hope they know when to stop. I remember a few scant months ago when TastySteve would continually refer to Nemisis as 'the big retard', Saying things like "he's got that retard strength" or "he's calling out the retard". Now I didnt personally find that offensive, but where do you draw the line? In all fairness, i would be the first to call for banning Steve from the mic, as i find him a worthless commentator. But what if Kotaku decided to write an article about how "this fighting gamer thinks mental handicaps are funny". With the whole ETR thing, he'll come back eventually i am sure, as he has a passion for fighting games and commentating. But i cant see him doing commentary anywhere but a LevelUp ran event, and who knows how serious LevelUp will be with their ban of him.

Edit: I dont know if this has been posted here either. http://www.twitlonger.com/show/g7543k Super_Yan's response to whole thing. Also, she pretty much calls out the Kotaku article.

"Maybe some people (like the people who wrote the@Kotaku article) don't understand that it was just one person who did this to me. I understand it looks like this is the FGC's fault, I felt that way too until I got home and had a couple days to process everything that happened."

Before that she praises the VAST MAJORITY of the FGC for supporting her. I think it might be time that people calm down a bit. The 'FGC' isn't terrible, the internet is terrible. The few bad apples like Aris are terrible, but that will happen anywhere.

Posted by benson

ETR completely gets it and what he writes makes me respect him a whole lot.

ETR: I do not think matters like this should be taken lightly, and if there was a point where I lost that perspective, even for a slight moment in time, that is solely my responsibility and nobody elses.

I hope he doesn't feel too alienated from the scene and quickly comes back.

Posted by Homelessbird

@Phished0ne: Just wanted to say: although I disagree with some of your sentiments (I won't go into it, as I think the argument on both sides is pretty clear at this point), I want to thank you for posting the link to that blog post.

It seems that we share a feeling that it's important for all sides of this story to be heard, and whatever I think about sites like Kotaku, they, and other enthusiast press sites certainly haven't been forthcoming with publishing links to all of the varied responses to this issue. As someone with some, but not a huge amount, of experience with the FGC, I feel like my perspective on this issue has been greatly expanded by reading Jared Rea's response, SRK and Level Up's statements, and now this blog, but I've had to go through users/my own detective work to get that perspective.

So thanks, again, for helping keep this a fair debate.

Edited by Phished0ne

@loryuo said:

@Phished0ne:

scroll down. you'll see girl gamer pics

Yup. People email Dr Sub nude pictures of gamer girls, he posts them, well the people that run his tumblr do. But guess what, both Sherry Jenix AND SuperYan were friendly with him during the show, why? because although he does that, he isnt a fucking creep like Aris is.

And dont get me started about Marn and ETR(ITS ETR, GET IT RIGHT GUYS =P ) being banned from commentating. especially concidering Christian(ETR) was one of the better commentators at LevelUp, besides UltraDavid and James Chen. He rarely says anything offensive, unlike Marn and always points out interesting things about the matches(unlike Marn). Its really a shame he was thrown into the crossfire. When you are part of a commentating team, its really hard to completely stop your partner in his tracks, and although he did crack a few jokes, it was mostly marn being the jerk(if you even want to call it that). I really think LevelUp screwed the pooch on this one.

Edit: Also, fuck Kotaku for being the video game press equivalent to an ambulance-chasing lawyer. The reporter who wrote those articles probably watched WNF and waited for someone to say one thing, just so they could write an article about it. When it really was nothing, part of a commentary job is talking about goings on in the community, and its always been so. I strongly suggest everyone interested read this blog post that ETR posted on his personal blogspot today.

Posted by RagingDaemon

@InternetDetective: You would beat someone up for the content of that video?

I found the video to be half boring, half amusing. It was a joking atmosphere, she laughed along, and participated by walking up and showing her nails to him at like the 8 min mark. He asked some other dude to see his feet and he refused so put on the horse head. It was an interaction between the stream, and Aris goofing off, with a lot of participation from everyone in the room.

All of you people who are treating that video like some graphic, malicious hate crime... I genuinely can't imagine you as real human beings in the actual world outside. If that causes you to believe in physical retribution, you must strap in to suicide bomb after an episode of the Jersey shore.

Posted by RagingDaemon

@Mechabolic: Just letting you know that you fighting the good fight against the tide is appreciated.

Posted by Lnin0

Dear FGC leaders. You are the face of a growing global community that receives a lot of perks for representing industries that understand how to foster and protect an image even if you don't. If you do not like the attention and you do not like being 'judged', then turn in your swag and go back to your mom's basement where you can be as juvenile as you want. Otherwise, stop the whining, shut the hell up and deal with the fact you represent something bigger than yourself.