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Edited by Feldheim_C

@Bourbon_Warrior: I'm sorry if showing a little respect is enraging for you. Would you rather "dude", "bro", or "dudebro"?

Also, you asked, I was just providing you with an answer, no need to get crass.

Edit: @myslead: Short answer: People get upset when others ask for a little courtesy and tact on the internet.

Long Answer: Go read the whole comment log.

Edited by TeflonBilly

@TadThuggish said:

The "sink or swim" mentality of trash talk is an acceptable one, but he doesn't understand that specifically altering your language and culture to suit a woman ("She has a vagina! Let's say bitch instead!") is unacceptable. It's not equal treatment if you approach every other person in the room with "Fuck you, jerk!" but the lone minority gets a "You stupid whore I hope you're raped how big is your bra I'm gonna buy you a skirt drooooool"

Dude has the Chris Brown disease of saying sorry, not knowing what he's sorry about, and continuing to do it.

Most people don't realize that gender neutral insults actually pop more of a whallop against women because then you're actually attacking a specific personality trait rather than just something as blanket as their gender.

Remember kids, next time you want to call a girl a bitch, call her a douchebag instead. She'll probably feel a lot more insluted.

Posted by Sword5

@Devoid: I think the silence happen because this broke during the last day of the show. Cell phones were banned and I doubt Capcom wanted anyone to talk about it on the stream. There is also a huge tournament on the other side of the country that everyone involved in the show needs to go to.

There will be plenty of people in the FGC that will talk about this next week.

I hope the archive of last night's cross counter ends up here. They had a good discussion about this topic.

Posted by fox01313

Long way to go on getting this resolved though at least something like this event might be a bit of a seed in getting this discussion going at least to cleaning up the language at the tournaments.

Posted by Parsnip

Video games.
Serious business.

Online
Posted by TheHBK

Sorry "if" I offended anyone is not an apology. You know you offended people, the ifs are just a way to show you don't care.

That whole talk about, oh the way it used to be at arcades, you had to pay your dues, fucking stupid. These are video games asshole. And from his pic, he sure looks like one.

Edited by Lotus

@Barrock said:

@Lotus said:

Oh wow, the comments were directed to a character in the game? the x-men girl right? I thought it was aim at a female competitor at the event name Phoenix... wow, now i don´t care anymore, hahaha really this is getting people mad? i´m too old and/or too young for this xD.

That's not the entire brouhaha. It's mostly about the guy repeatedly asking the girl her bra size, making odd comments about her going to the bathroom and such.

By "girl" you mean a fictional character correct?

Posted by Sammo21

The real question is what does his neckbeard think about the situation?

Posted by Feldheim_C

@Sammo21 said:

The real question is what does his neckbeard think about the situation?

I think the neckbeard has said all it's going to about this whole situation. It's made its opinion clear.

Posted by Anwar

@TeflonBilly:

Posted by buhssuht

I agree what he said about his statements getting misinterpreted, that happens all the time. But it's hard to agree with him as a whole when he DID say things that are offensive, such as asking bra size of female player.

Posted by nukesniper

Sure he could have been caught up in the heat of those things, but what he was saying didn't go with that. You can get heated in Starcraft, too. Just like any other game. The sexual harassment is still wrong and dumb. That said, it doesn't stop every nine to twenty-five year old jerk on Xbox Live from making my military history look like Sunday school with their profanity just because they have a headset and a mom who doesn't stop them.

Posted by Hagane

@benson: Honest question: where does she ask him to stop? From what I've seen she seemed quite amused by the situation. Unless laughing means something different.

Posted by TeflonBilly

@joshwent said:

Yes, that's exactly what's next. Patrick will earn the title he's drooled over all these years of greatest game writer in the universe forever by making up shit about Gabe Newell. *sigh :(

The point I was hyperbolically trying to make is that these were terribly written and researched articles, especially considering the quality I've come to expect from Patrick. It seems like he was way too quick to pounce on the subject to stir shit. That's not to say that it's a subject that wouldn't hurt to have some light shed on it, but not in this shitty manner.

Edited by feargalr

A lesser man would make a sexiest pun now.. Not me though...

Posted by TeflonBilly

@Anwar:

Posted by DarthB

I feel bad for the guy, but at least he's come out and said he made some shitty comments. Most would just keep on trying to explain their shit further which just makes them look even crazier. Good on him for having the balls to even comment on it again.

Enjoyable story, but again, the good ol internet seems to blow things out of proportion too often. At least Patrick is good at just presenting the info without trying to skew it.

Posted by Bacchus

You stay classy, fighting game fans.

Posted by langdonx

@WiqidBritt said:

there's a fine line between "oh that bitch just got fucked up" and "yeah fucking rape that bitch" and neither should really be stated by hosts or commentators on any kind of official broadcast or stream if they want the scene to grow and become more profitable.

@shodan2020 said:

From yesterday's article:

Rea: "When I go to SoCal regionals and I see a Phoenix [from Marvel vs. Capcom 3] on main stage getting blown up and there’s some dude in the audience just yelling “Bitch! Bitch!” every time she gets hit and then she killed and goes “Yeah, rape that bitch!” Yeah, that’s totally acceptable! Really? Really? You’re going to tell me that’s acceptable?"

I don't know if I would classify some dude shouting "Rape that bitch!" as "mild" hostility. That seems pretty fucking hostile and disgusting to me.

@Barrock said:

Thank you for covering this Patrick. Talking shit is one thing. And if you want to talk about raping one another in private, fine. But there's no appropriate public situation where yelling the phrase "Rape that bitch!" is socially acceptable.

Do you guys understand the context of the "rape that bitch" comment? I'm failing to see how it's unacceptable for someone in a general audience to shout "rape that bitch" out when witnessing a fighting game match where a woman isn't even playing. It would be one thing if it was going out over commentary, but that wasn't the case.

Nobody was suggesting physically raping another human being. The word rape if often used in place of "beat", "destroy" in games or any competitive situation (we raped the other team). The bitch in this case was in reference to beating up a video game character that everyone thought to be grossly overpowered and not requiring any skill to win with. What sort of things do you think are yelled at a UFC fight by the audience? How is a fighting game any different? People get excited and love to see characters (or fighters) that they generally dislike lose.

Posted by Hailinel

How are there still people defending Aris for what he said?

Posted by Shady

@Lotus said:

@Barrock said:

@Lotus said:

Oh wow, the comments were directed to a character in the game? the x-men girl right? I thought it was aim at a female competitor at the event name Phoenix... wow, now i don´t care anymore, hahaha really this is getting people mad? i´m too old and/or too young for this xD.

That's not the entire brouhaha. It's mostly about the guy repeatedly asking the girl her bra size, making odd comments about her going to the bathroom and such.

By "girl" you mean a fictional character correct?

No. It was directed at one of the female contestants on the show.

Posted by Skeetlejuice

Not suprised how this played out, and frankly It put me off the game when i tuned into the stream to check out tekken characters and the game to see it full of these asshats, and the pig of a coach. Then I realized that these are the people that are gonna be playing at launch, and this is sponsored by Capcom.

All I can say, and I hope you hear this Capcom, I will not be buying this SFXT anytime soon. between this and your endless double dipping on revised versions I have nothing but an unpleasant taste in my mouth to go with my dusty TE.

It's the sad part of online games, it's all filled with rude pathetic grieffer jerks. It reminds me of the smelly losers that had no manners or gamesmanship playing magic the gathering at events. trying to rip you off in trades and bullshit the rules to new players.

For you guys to say that "the fighting game community is this way" or has to stay this way because it represents your own shallow uncreative(banter) and basically unsporting style of play and that you are everyone. YOUR NOT!

Explain to me why DAIGO doesn't need to smack talk. He smack talks with his skill, people need to do more of that, and be gracious winners when there is a gulf in play experience and skill. Too busy racking up hollow mistake filled wins, while insulting people and lagging the game with their chatter.

Look at Japan for their fighting games and the standards there where people have a bit(LOT) more class. (actually applies to magic as well) I have been playing fighting games since SNES and PSX, and it disgusts me that I have to ask myself why it's so hard to mute people online on the PS3.

The treatment of women is appalling and ultimately self defeating. We want women to enjoy the hobby, not push them away from it back to facebook games, ie. non core games.

There are skilled players at games that are SPORTING and have GAMESMANSHIP and CLASS. It is possible and preferrable to be respectful and let your skills do the talking. All you DBAGS need to GROW THE FRACK up and stop Ruining the Hobby. Also you can have banter and joke around without being a classless circus freak.

If you behave like this in a sports League you get tossed. At work you get fired. You talk to your GF like this you get dumped.

GROW UP.

Posted by Feldheim_C

@LtSquigs: I could not have said it any better myself. Kudos.

Posted by moffattron9000

@Bourbon_Warrior: getting the science wrong about transgender people may be one thing, but to say that for a person to be friends with one is humiliating makes you the opposite of batman.

Edited by GaspoweR

What's kind of pissing me off is that some of the people who think whoever is saying that "rape that bitch" comment is the guy commentating. When a commentator goes crazy or pops off, no one ever says offensive...they say this:

and this...

Posted by PatPandaHat

@langdonx: Because, as we are all fully aware, beating a player using a particular character warrants the comparison to forcing ones' self on you in an unwanted advance, leading to potential physical, emotional and psychological trauma which could take you years of therapy to even begin to recognize, let alone come to grips with, all as an expression of power over someone weaker.

I get the context plenty, I just think the context is lousy.

Posted by IkariNoTekken

@Lotus: Did you watch the video that was posted on the previous article? If not, here it is:

If you don't watch it all at least see what happens from 11:50 onwards; despicable behaviour if you ask me.

Posted by Sweep

I just deleted a load of shit from this thread. Let's try to stay on-topic here please, people.

Moderator
Posted by pixieface

@TadThuggish said:

The "sink or swim" mentality of trash talk is an acceptable one, but he doesn't understand that specifically altering your language and culture to suit a woman ("She has a vagina! Let's say bitch instead!") is unacceptable. It's not equal treatment if you approach every other person in the room with "Fuck you, jerk!" but the lone minority gets a "You stupid whore I hope you're raped how big is your bra I'm gonna buy you a skirt drooooool"

Dude has the Chris Brown disease of saying sorry, not knowing what he's sorry about, and continuing to do it.

You are great and the things you say are also great.

Dude sounds like a fucking mega creep.

Posted by Jeffsekai

The only reason anyone cares is because it happened to a girl.

Posted by VichusSmith

You know what I think? I think that this shows that people who are good at fighting games should stick to playing fighting games, and not talking about sexual harassment. You don't want to be caught in a place where you're hoo-rahing sexual harassment.

Posted by Pandasteeler43

@Hagane said:

@benson: Honest question: where does she ask him to stop? From what I've seen she seemed quite amused by the situation. Unless laughing means something different.

That was nervous laughter if I've ever heard it. Just because you laugh doesn't necessarily mean you think something is funny.

Posted by Grimluck343

Today I learned everyone on the internet is a saint, and everyone in the fighting game community endorses rape.

Posted by PatPandaHat

@VichusSmith: Y'know, that's actually a brilliant idea you've just given me. Before all broadcasts of fighting game competitive games, all players must place a large piece of tape over their mouths (or contract laryngitis, I'm easy), so as to prevent them from talking. Ever. And to prevent audiences from shouting out ridiculous shit, no more live audiences. Frankly, people talking about fighting games, over fighting games, tends to detract from my appreciation of fighting games anyway.

Tournaments played in blissful silence, the only sounds being as one player busts out something completely ridiculous for the audience at home to shout about, all of whom are not around me, allowing the blissful silence to continue.

That's the dream!

Posted by homewrecker

"my statements do not reflect capcom or myself". nice try.

Posted by Llama

Sounds like capcom bitchslapped him so HARD. Retract that shit or we'll make sure you never compete anywhere ever again!

Posted by Hailinel

@homewrecker said:

"my statements do not reflect capcom or myself". nice try.

That's the best part. "My own words should not be held against me."

What?

Posted by mordukai

@pants said:

Oh boy, this story blew up

And it'll blow over and we'll be on to the next sensationalist issue. In the media they have a saying for this type of happenings "Business as usual".

Posted by RanmaRanma

I love Giantbomb and its community to death but those not in the FGC should not be talking about this story without deep research to be honest because they don't fully comprehend the whole picture nor understand the characteristics of the scene. African Americans often refer to each other as what a white person can not. It's all part of the culture. Terms like rape, hateful and sexist comments have been a part of the scene for a long time. You can argue that it should not be and I would agree but the thing is, it's their scene, they built it. We can't waltz in and say hey guys I want to be part of your scene so you need to change for me just like you wouldn't walk into an Indian reservation and ask them to change their culture for you.

If you don't like the culture, fine. You can campaign against it all you want and I'll support you to some extent but placing the blame on Aris alone is scapegoating. He did some unsightly things, sure but it wasn't far removed from how many in the scene behave. He is a product of his environment. He was also on a reality show and hired to be this over the top character. What did you expect? I don't like what he did, let me make that clear but the method of attack here on Aris is misplaced, it needs to go to the source but that would require people to change the FGC as we know it and the people who helped build the FGC and have been a part of it for years, like Aris, don't want what they love to change. That was his point he was poorly trying to make in his comments prior. Take it as you will but be enlightened about which you speak.

Also remember that the FGC is not trying to be e-sports, they want to remain their own beast. They can be as repulsive to people outside their scene as they like. It's disgusting but it's their call. You can always start your own FGC and make it Hollywood, shiny and clean if that's your thing. For many in the FGC, it's not. Again, I don't support sexism or hate in any manner but I at least understand the mechanics behind this incident and while it is an issue, it is being overblown to some extent.

Edited by Sooty

 
@Jeffsekai said:

The only reason anyone cares is because it happened to a girl.

Yeah this has blown up quite a stupid amount. Guys get called way worse on and off stream and it's all taken as a joke. 
 
I do think talking about her bra size was creepy, but the whole rape thing is a pretty genderless word here.
 

@Llama

said:

Sounds like capcom bitchslapped him so HARD. Retract that shit or we'll make sure you never compete anywhere ever again!

Hard for Capcom to take that stance when they don't run any of these events, I think Cross Assault is like their first. (excluding fight clubs which are just to show off games early)
Posted by Little_Socrates

Before you quickly defend these guys, I recommend hanging out in chat of a tournament like Cross Assault. Even if you think Bakhtanians isn't so bad (he's terrible) there's 20 in the chat worse than Aris, louder than Aris, and more willing to defend themselves than Aris. I don't mean to say the entire FGC is rotten, and I love fighting games all the same. But there's an underlying issue that's not being touched on here, and it's that the spectator community is too often worse than Bakhtanians.

Edited by GaspoweR

@Hailinel said:

How are there still people defending Aris for what he said?

There are some who aren't actually defending Aris but more so explaining the context of why such language that was being used exists. Not everyone uses the language but there are people in the community who do use it.

Posted by TheBostonPops

@RanmaRanma: I honestly don't care what the "FGC" does as far as promoting itself or becoming a bigger entity. I have no dog in this "eSports" fight that everyone keeps swinging away with. What I do take issue with is the fact that this community is using tradition as a defense to say terrible things about other human beings, and that the content of those terrible things often use their skin tone or sex to marginalize them in the eye of the insular majority.

No one cares why people in the "FGC" say those things, and in truth it shouldn't really matter. What does matter is that this sort of speech is still hate speech - racism and sexism are still racism and sexism, regardless of context - and it doesn't have a place in our society in general.

Posted by PatPandaHat

@RanmaRanma: The thing is this. If I want to play fighting games, I can't just go and make a new fighting game scene ex nihilo. I'm going to have to deal with the scene full of people that think using terms like "rape" is an acceptable synonym for "beat", that think throwing out racist, bigoted, sexist comments are fine and the people that take offense are somehow desecrating their ancient and glorious culture. So if I want to play fighting games, and not deal with that shit like I'm backing to hanging out with my friends in primary school, I have to ask them to change or I'm not going to enjoy playing fighting games.

So really, which is the worse decision, everyone getting to play fighting games and enjoying themselves, or a specific subset playing fighting games and enjoying themselves because they get to behave like assholes to everyone they encounter, and everyone else letting that cul-de-sac boil in its own juices while we do other shit because we can't fucking well enjoy fighting games while they behave like that?

Posted by BigChickenDinner

@hollitz said:

"My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself." This man could be a politician.

I think were done here.

Posted by Danin

@chaosnovaxz said:

In this story - competitive gamers are often stupid and like to talk shit.

The sexism angle is just dumb, though. Saying "rape" is a misogynist term and only applies to women makes me question whether or not anyone knows what "rape" is, but apparently saying that makes me sexist too, if the community is to be believed.

Like I said in the other thread on this story, dumb shit like "rape that bitch!" shouldn't be said at all. However, you'll often hear such phrases in groups containing only guys playing. It's no excuse, and I don't mean this to sound cold, but it's silly when a female gamer hops in that group and all of a sudden claims that such phrases are being directed at her because she's female and all the guys are sexist bastards.

I happen to have two female friends heavily into online shooters (mostly CoD), that will talk shit and throw out words like "rape" and "bitch" with the worst of the guys. But it's ok if they do it, right?

The sexism angle isn't dumb, it's what actually happened. This isn't about somebody yelling "rape that bitch!" at a tournament event as an isolated incident. Super_Yan forfeited her place in Cross Assault because of unrelenting sexual harassment directed at her from her own team's coach. It's not just a matter of saying things in the heat of the moment that are probably more extreme than should be publicly acceptable. The issue is that it's "acceptable behavior" in the FGC to treat another human being--a teammate, even!--like a piece of meat, to their face, for hours and days at a time, entirely because of their gender. Shit-talk is one thing, but the treatment Super_Yan endured was blatantly and inexcusably misogynistic. A community that thinks this behavior is acceptable, especially in organized events and especially especially in face-to-face contact, has major problems.

Posted by SpunkyHePanda

@RanmaRanma said:

African Americans often refer to each other as what a white person can not. It's all part of the culture.

Not the same!

Posted by langdonx

@PatPandaHat said:

@langdonx: Because, as we are all fully aware, beating a player using a particular character warrants the comparison to forcing ones' self on you in an unwanted advance, leading to potential physical, emotional and psychological trauma which could take you years of therapy to even begin to recognize, let alone come to grips with, all as an expression of power over someone weaker.

I get the context plenty, I just think the context is lousy.

You seem to get the context in your narrow understanding of the word. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rape

Posted by Demoskinos

@Vague_Optimism: Oh god. And today is a leap year day... THE WORLD IS GOING TO END.