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Posted by TheEagleNebula

I also felt like I should only play through once, so any choices and deaths are final. In my suicide mission I kept everyone alive, apart from jack. Because my Shepard was involved with Miranda I took her side in the jack/Miranda argument. I didn't really care much that jack was pissed at me but when she died I was shocked. She died fighting along my side, just before we reached safety. I felt bad because I would never be able to patch up our argument now. I pretty much felt the exact way you did except yours was about Miranda mine was about jack. Just shows how much a really immersive game with excellent writing can affect us.

Posted by Mnemoidian

@QuistisTrepe: Well, there is the added complexity of loyal vs not loyal.

Any character who is not loyal is pretty much dead - though I understand there are some ways you can get around that as well(?). And there are some cases where, due to the order you did things in, you are unable to secure loyalty of all characters (like what Patrick described with Miranda vs Jack).

Personally, my first playthrough had me losing Zaaed during the suicide mission because I did not have high enough Paragon score when I did his loyalty mission, and was not willing to sacrifice civilians in his mad dash for vengeance (also, screw Zaaed).

But yeah, it seems to be difficult to lose a lot of people without actively aiming for that.

Posted by Senno

Good on you for standing by this principle. It's a hard decision to make - but it is the right one. I know many players have exploited the Suicide Mission, finding the best way to keep the most or all players alive. I myself was tempted, but decided to keep to the ethos of Bioware's design, and let what happened, happen. It made the impact of my decisions far more meaningful, and it also made my game that much more personal. I weeped when I lost some of the people I cared about die, but yet I valiantly moved on - and it made ME3 that much more personal to me. My decisions not only carried weight, but they had a far reaching consequence beyond the immediate and I didn't want to wreck that by reloading and starting over. Life has no restart button and the game has clearly been designed to be experienced as one amazing playthrough. The Walking Dead episodic title from Telltale takes this even further, and I think is an even better experience for it - and like my playthrough in the Mass Effect series, I'm ensuring that I stand by the game until it's over - allowing what happened to happen and see how it plays out.

Posted by QuistisTrepe

@Fozimuth said:

I just played all of the loyalty missions. I heard the Reaper IFF was the point of no return basically, so I did all the missions and nobody got killed in my game. I'm not sure how you would manage to get anybody killed. The recruitment and loyalty missions are literally 70% of the main game, so I don't know why you would skip them. And the choices aren't too hard. Garrus led his own team on Omega (that he talks about incessantly), so have him lead the secondary teams. Tali is a machinist/ engineer, so have her hack the tubes. Samara and Jack are pure biotic, so have them make the shield. And so on. I'd like to hear what decisions people made in the last mission that actually got squadmates killed.

A million times this. Surviving the suicide mission really isn't that difficult. For crying out loud, the game even gives you team member descriptions to help you decide what roles to assign. If you have reading comprehension, you should be able to get everyone out just fine. The escort part is a slight wild card, but still, it seems difficult to lose anyone.

Posted by Foxillusion


I just played through and almost had an identical experience. Miranda and Jack got in a fight and I sided with Jack, and I never got enough paragon points to reconcile it. I'm wondering if that's why she got killed in my ME2 ending, she wasn't 'Loyal' anymore, that's how raw the fight was. Anyway, I hear you. It kind of sucks.
Posted by TimothyWessel

I was a lucky one, I only do most things once, and my Mass Effect 2 save went WELL, all survived first try, I couldn't believe my luck... But it didn't matter, most of your pals from ME2 barely help.. While other make grave sacrifices... I think I would have been OK if Samara had died in ME2, I never gave 2 craps about that story line, so in 3 during my renegade playstyle... I ended the Samara storyline, AND bloodline... what a dick move, but it was the only real way to make an impact on their lives.

I was just happy to keep Miranda and Garrus alive.

Posted by CaptainDickface

I love this story. I've had similar feelings about Wrex after I shot him in the face at the end of ME1. Yeah, I could have reloaded my save or replayed the game, but I decided that I would not replay any of the Mass Effect games until the trilogy (and the story of my Shepard) concluded. I didn't want to confuse my story with the decisions I didn't make.

With the third one in the bag, I do plan to go back and start a new character and find out how that Shepard's universe unfolds from the very beginning. I just don't actually look forward to playing ME1 again.

Posted by prodigy_T

You know what I accidently didn't have sex with her.. and she gave me the cold shoulder the whole damn game... I was hoping she died... and then she did. I am happy.

Posted by WhiteBrightKnight

Jacob died for me, sent him in since he volunteered even though my heart told me to send tali. I romanced miranda my first playthrough but like tali way more, just felt obligated to do miranda tbh. Honestly I think it was pretty obvious you're supposed to choose samara/jack/morinth for the biotic barrier because their biotics are way better than mirandas story-wise. Oh yeah zaeed died too. But who the fuck cares about zaeed.

Posted by Steam

What a stupid article.

Posted by Dustpan

@Wiredxp said:

I let Miranda die as well! but the swarmers took Mordin and i was so distraught as he was my favourite character. It just came out of no where. I wanted The DLC guy to die not Mordin!!!

Hope dare you refer to Zaeed as "The DLC guy". He was the best new squad-member in Mass Effect 2 hands down.

Posted by Wiredxp

I let Miranda die as well! but the swarmers took Mordin and i was so distraught as he was my favourite character. It just came out of no where. I wanted The DLC guy to die not Mordin!!!

Posted by metronome127

well crap

Posted by gaminginpublic


Posted by Scofthe7seas

The problem with the suicide mission, and choosing not to play through it again, is that you're not given the information needed as a game. Mass Effect is a game, not life. I played through, and thought I picked correctly, and several characters died. I wondered, what did I do wrong? Why did this happen? I look online to see that the answer to this question is : I didn't do what Bioware wanted me to do. That's not fair. There are variables that you have no way of knowing before choosing who does what, and the consequences of making those "wrong" choices (which like I said, you couldn't possibly know was the case). is you just don't get those people in the next game, potentially crippling it. I could have experimented over and over to try and see what would give me a satisfactory ending, but the ending sequence is lengthy, and there could be so many variables to choose from what could make what happen. Looking online, I just saved time. Would Patrick have lived with his choices if damned near every character died, because he just happened to pick more "wrong" answers than right ones? Not likely.

Posted by dysfunkshunal

Be better at video games, P-rick.

My suicide mission run: Survivors - 11.

inb4 trollbragging

Posted by tjohn86

I played the suicide mission a few times before everyone lived. I was so glad to see all familiar faces in ME3.

Posted by robeywan

you're lucky Miranda died in your playthrough. I was in a passionate relationship with her in my game which survived the final assault. then mass effect 3 comes along and I'm expecting to pick that relationship back up right where we left it... not only wasn't Miranda playable, but she wasn't even on the ship. In fact, she was off on some story arc involving her sister for the whole game, which we couldn't do together because it was "something she had to do alone".

so if you chose Tali to romance, congratulations, that was the right answer. If you felt a connection with Jack, Miranda or Jacob, you get about ten lines of dialogue for your efforts in the previous game, and some excuse as to why they can't join your party. geez, thanks a lot. way to let me follow through with my 'choices'.

Posted by Seanakin66

I guess it's fitting, sort of, that despite me manipulating the suicide mission so no one died, I missed out on seeing the full extent of Kasumi's involvement in Mass Effect 3 due to one of MYRIAD goddamn bugs in the game.

Posted by RuiG87

does anyone even need a walkthrough to keep the entire party alive? I managed to do it with ease.

Posted by antivanti

I almost wish I hadn't been a completionist that always does all the side missions before progressing and managed to save everyone. I never looked at a guide or walkthru and I never went back to an earlier save in any of the games.. I managed to save everyone except Yeoman Chambers. I sort of miss her now that I know she could be saved but I almost wish I'd lost someone major like Patrick did. It makes his story more interesting and unique.

Edited by MrWizard6600

So I'm going through a similar problem now, in mass effect 3:

On Rannoch, you are confronted with either allowing or forbidding legion to change the Geth in a way that’s clearly significant in how it will impact their relations with the Quarians. I can’t remember my exact train of thought, but I was interested in the idea of where the game would go with more lifelike AI characters. I allowed legion to continue. I recognized that the decision might be bad for some people, but the thought that it might be as bad as it is never crossed my mind.

When the ensuing cut scene showed the Geth completely annihilating the Quarians, and Tali committing suicide, Bioware definitely got the kind of response they probably wanted, I was really sad --more than I thought a game, even this game, could've made me--, and I was really disappointed in myself for not saving everyone.

But the painful debate going on in my head right now relates to the technical pitfalls Bioware’s been trapped by in mass effect 3: I was not aware of the severity of the situation, and thus don’t feel that I should really let the fiction punish me this harshly. In the fiction, after getting beaten to a pulp by the reapers the Alliance forces seem to still be in fighting condition. A similar situation occurs for the Turians. But because this game desperately wanted the emotional impact of genocide, they make an exception here: rather than the long drawn out fights with lots of survivors that usually occur, everybody dies in an instant. ME3 betrays its own fictional rules and leaves me with an aftertaste of bewilderment, which is really disappointing, considering they’ve shown they can expertly execute emotional punches.

I’d like to take the line that Patrick is taking relating to Miranda: I’d like to just live with my choices and see where the fiction goes from here, but I just can’t, too many died. Bioware’s attempt at an emotional punch leads to their writer being overly polemic.

The heart of the problem is that when Bioware provokes that kind of a response the player is motivated to fix it. Some googling tells me that if I run one other mission on Rannoch, and go and speak to some people on the citadel for “reputation”, I will be able to save the everyone. Here, too, ME3 falls into some very gamey, very technical issues. I didn’t do the extra mission on Rannoch because I believed that if I just cut-to-the-chase and ended the Reaper problem by doing the last mission, I would retroactively solve the mission that I needed to do. I didn’t go and speak to people on the citadel to increase my reputation score because it seems inappropriate to jump across the galaxy when you’re so deep in such a tightly coupled set of missions.

Stepping back a bit, I think Bioware is crippled here largely from the format and the conventions of video games: there’s no good sense of time in this game. How long does it take me to jump across the galaxy? How long can a fleet last under heavy fire? What determines which missions will expire and which won’t, and why do I get no warning when they’re about to –even just a distraught e-mail, something along the lines of “Sheppard you said you’d help us, and now Cerberus is here, you’d better hurry your ass up!”

I donno, If you’ve read my essay, am I just whining and am someone whose not able to live with the decisions they make in this fiction, or do I have a point? I’ve reloaded a previous save, and set myself up to receive the paragon/renegade options that will result in a fairy-tale ending, and am now I’m debating if I want to complete this game on that fork, or complete it on my original.

tl;dr yeah I mad. Bioware's fiction sort've falls off the wagon from time to time.

PS yeah. I had to use word’s thesaurus to get to polemic.

Posted by GozerTC

My Miranda died in the final fight, when platform collapses she is crushed underneath. I knew she wasn't fully loyal and I tried to keep her by keeping her close but it wasn't enough. Now in 3 I've found one little Miranda sized hole in the story that makes me wonder "what if."

As it stands I'm glad I didn't re-do the suicide mission, I did it once and that's the one that counted. I'm glad Bioware gave me the OPTION to do this. I know it's not for everyone but I'm glad they let me do it.

Posted by courage_wolf

I lost Doctor Chakwas on the suicide mission. It really hurt because I had saved her just in time but sent her and the other crew members back to the ship without escort and they were all killed. Returning to an empty ship after the suicide mission was bad but walking into the empty med bay in Mass Effect 3 was horrible. The worst part is that it was totally preventable and came down to one bad call. I thought about replaying the ending to save her, but it seems more honest to go with it. Shepherd lost a friend, it was his fault, and he has to carry that with him.

Posted by Smoke217

On my "suicide mission" for Mass Effect 2 I got everyone to survive the ending, no one died. I just thought how best to use my squad mates when needed i.e. sending Jack with the abducted humans back to the Normandy and using Samara as my biotic shield.

Posted by Luthorcrow

@WickedCobra03 said:

I kind of wish that I could have just capped Miranda myself at the end of the game, and left a note on her body to bioware. Stop sexing up my Mass Effect for no reason, this is what happens when you whore out your games into basically softcore porn... yeah, your hookers die. The new cyber lady (just saying that cause I don't want to post spoilers) is looking like she needs a cap in her over proportioned ass of hers.

God, you have messed up my game bioware. If you need proof EA/Bioware sexed her up... just look at the filth below.

Wow, you are really repressed. Maybe you should switch to decaf.

I played the first two games through once as female and once as male making different decisions with each. But I was amazed at how many people had bad endings for ME2. My female ending I lost the doctor and the counselor. On my male run through I didn't lose anyone, not even the janitor.

Missing Miranda in ME3 would suck. She has a great story arc. Let's face it her daddy issues definitely played into the trouble you see.

Posted by vancealmighty

I just wanted to save Tali, honestly. She's my boo, and I couldn't live without her. Her role in ME3 is entirely worth it too, which makes it sweeter. :)

Posted by Lind_L_Taylor

In my first playthru, I had Miranda die as well & I was like:
"What the fuck just happened?  Why is my squeeze being
killed off?"
I reloaded & played the ending 3 or 4 different times to try
& protect her.  When she wanted to head her own team, I
was like NUTHIN' DOIN' you're sticking with me as I already
watched you get killed with your own team. Whenever there was
a separate incident or some decision that had to be made,
she would be killed.  So I kept her with me through the
entire game & figured I could save her ass.  But when the
explosion hits at the end, she's right there in your loving
arms waking up & letting you gaze at her extravagant beauty
& then she fucking dies..again!!   
I was screaming at the TV "NOOOO!!!!"  Then I went to 
New Game+ & found a way to make it square.

Posted by FuzzYLemoN

I made sure Tali died. I don't think I could have tolerated another game with her irritating voice and demeanor in my ear.

Posted by WickedCobra03

I kind of wish that I could have just capped Miranda myself at the end of the game, and left a note on her body to bioware. Stop sexing up my Mass Effect for no reason, this is what happens when you whore out your games into basically softcore porn... yeah, your hookers die. The new cyber lady (just saying that cause I don't want to post spoilers) is looking like she needs a cap in her over proportioned ass of hers.

God, you have messed up my game bioware. If you need proof EA/Bioware sexed her up... just look at the filth below.

Posted by haggis

For those that lost Mordin in ME2, I feel bad -- his crowning moment in ME3 is probably the best written, most emotional moment in the entire series. As for Miranda, her role in ME3 didn't much effect me, and so her moment ... not so powerful. Still, I know people got attached to different characters so I can see how they might be missed. ME3 didn't pull any punches.

Edited by bandro

Patrick and I clearly play games the same way. I see it as a matured perception of what the medium is capable of.

That's why I found it so difficult to get into WoW. It was too friendly. Your capacity to grief people or lose everything you had worked hard for was limited, and therefore so were your opportunities to form real rivalries, friendships, gangs and ultimately create stories worth telling other people. I call the act of imbuing games and players with this level of control IKS: Immersion Killing Stabalization. Stabalizers... like those things that hang off the edge of babies bikes, that fail at teaching you how to ride, because there is no consequence to give the act of learning enough weight. Psh!

Everquest did it though. I felt like I didn't waste 2 years of my life playing Everquest, as I at least have social faux pas and terrible stories to talk about.


Posted by Dansulu

I didn't know you could permanently lose squad mates in that section of the game. It must be because I am amazing at video games and nobody died on my one playthrough.

Posted by melkore

I lost Jacob and Thane.

I messed up on Thane's loyalty mission so he was expendable and I just did not like Jacob at all. His loyalty mission was fun because of his dad and no Jacob himself.

Neither will be missed in ME3 when I get to it.

Posted by wchue

Miranda was the best!

Posted by Vect

@gladspooky said:

@Incapability said:

To this day I can't understand how you could lose squad members on that mission, without missing something incredibly obvious. I feel like they make every attempt to point out what you should be doing.

"You should probably upgrade your ship with these upgrades."

"You should probably use a TECHNICAL character for this task."

"It would be a good idea to use a BIOTIC character for this task."

And furthermore, just completing the damn loyalty missions. What goes wrong for everyone else?

"You need a LEADER..."

*picks Samara, who was introduced as an important member of her race that everyone seems to have heard of*


Samara is somewhat Legendary, but kind of a lone wolf kinda character. It's pretty hard to see her as a leader. It's like picking The Punisher to lead a team.

I'm taking that Patrick lost Tali and Miranda due to the the fact that he sided with Legion and Jack during the confrontations. That might explain something. Even then I always thought of Miranda as a pretty unlikeable character and getting her killed is actually sorta tough since she has Special Plot Armor that lets her survive a few things that other characters absolutely need Loyalty for.

Posted by Mjdemon

first playthorugh i lost Tali and decided to play again. Im not a Tali fan but seeing her try to shut the door and have a Rocket hit her point blank in the face felt wrong so i did it and and had everyone survived. Propbably would have did it the first time if i knew i shouldnt have sided with Legion

Posted by Goldanas

@Cogzwell: Haha, sorry, I wasn't trying to come off as harsh, though I clearly see that that was the way I wrote it it. Sorry.

All I'm really trying to say is that in a story game, or a game entirely focused around a well-thought-out, granular story, it is probably incorrect to inject an aspect of a moment that isn't entirely there, though I certainly understand what you, and others are going for. For me, I lost some characters in one playthrough and saved some in the other, but the game didn't present it as some grand tragedy or remark. It was a modular scripted sequence that played out as a punishment for lack of readiness or whathaveyou. It's difficult to explain, since so many other mediums are so open to interpretation, but in the instance of a game, which gives full control of the outcome, and then presents specific results which do not play to the idea, it doesn't lend room for too much interpretation.

Of course, I'm probably reading too much into it; there is some irony in this character dying in this event, as you've pointed out. I wouldn't call it tragic in any sense, but I guess it is a bummer. Maybe I'm just extending from my own dissatisfaction for what I wish the game to be, rather than what it is.

Video Games.

Posted by Albedo12

@durden77 said:

Really wish they wouldn't have made a spoiler of ME2 a main headline.

What's a spoiler? That Miranda can die? If you played ME1 you know your team-mates can die. Or are you referring to the Suicide Mission? Sorry, not a spoiler. From the product description on Steam:

"To even attempt this perilous mission, Shepard must assemble the galaxy’s most elite team and command the most powerful ship ever built. Even then, they say it would be suicide. Commander Shepard intends to prove them wrong."

Or more blatantly from the back of the box:

"They call it a suicide mission. Prover them wrong."

If that doesn't tip you off, the point in the first half hour of ME2 where you are told you are going on a suicide mission will. The "Survive the Suicide Mission" trophy is also a bit of a giveaway.

It's about as spoilerish as saying the fellowship have to take the Ring to Mount Doom in "Lord of the Rings".

Posted by Hellstrom

@phrosnite said:

Miranda sucks anyway. I dont know why people like her.

I say the same about Ashley. Ever since ME1 she has been the most boring female character in the whole franchise. Which is why i killed Ashley.

Posted by bayushi

I had the same issue too! Just because I was trying to be fair to Jack, Miranda gave me the cold shoulder in ME 2. Even though I finished her loyalty mission. She gets capped at the end of the game. I was so pissed! I never got a chance for sexy closure time. I started replaying ME2 to try to save her this time. I've read that it is VERY VERY hard to keep her alive in both ME2 and 3. Bioware Y U no like Miranda?


Edited by Matterless

I didn't want to start a forum thread on something I hadn't seen myself, but I'm hearing chatter that Chris Priestly shut down Bioware's Story Discussion forum today because the users were getting out of hand. Anyone else hear this?

Edited by durden77

@Brighty: Oh whoa is me. I hath avoideth thy plot many times over, yet from my own companions mouth, I am betrayed.

That's dramatic. I just made a statement.

Posted by Brighty

@durden77 said:

I'm going to say something that everyone will hate but I'm still saying it.

Really wish they wouldn't have made a spoiler of ME2 a main headline. I'm playing through the series for the first time now, and I just finished ME1. I'm really invested in the story, and have been trying to avoid as many spoilers as possible. Then I come to one of my favorites sites, and there's one right on the front page.

I get that things can change depending on your choices and such, but I still think it would've been cool to just have the story/headline titled to just something along the lines of "Patrick's experience with *specific mission or whatever."

Lol, stop being so dramatic. Mass Effect 2 is almost impossible to spoil, and that's what makes it so brilliant.

Edited by MeatSim

I only had one person die on me in my 3 playthroughs of Mass Effect 2. Zaeed because I screwed up his loyalty mission but on my last playthrough I didn't have Miranda's loyalty but she survived anyway.

Posted by WiqidBritt

I don't see how you can make this mistake, you knew which character you wanted to romance so why would you hook up with Jack, especially in a way that was meaningless?

but hey, maybe that's why you liked Catherine so much.

Posted by Cogzwell

Well listen, I know it was my fault, I was doing the final mission and just picked him for the mission, I wasn't trying to power game it nor will I try to defend the way I was playing, all I'm doing is appreciate the irony found in my short comings. I played through the story, I got my ending, and haven't played it since. But thanks, thanks for reminding me that no matter how much I enjoyed my experience, I screwed up, thanks.

Posted by LiquidPrince

I never looked through any walkthroughs and everyone on my squad survived, both when I played on 360 and when I played on PS3. But it was a stressful time, when I thought people were about to die and I was like "no no no no... Oh, okay... whoo!"

Posted by scottkanex

For all his magnanimous tolerance of other species: my Shepard is a down and out human racist. Jacob is dead and everyone else survived and this was in no way intentional.