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Posted by believer258

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@believer258 said:

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

Yes, because forcing our beliefs and morals down an entire state's throat is the right thing to do. If you live in NC and don't like it, then DONT FUCKING LIVE THERE. Marriage and things of that nature are state laws and regulations. The federal government should have no say in the matter.

Great. I'll take my 20 year old self and just move on out, 'cause the two hundred dollars to my name is gonna carry me pretty far, isn't it?

If it bugged you enough, sure why not?

I guess he'll just live on the side of the road then in California. That argument is dumb. It's unrealistic in some cases depending on your financial situation.

Why not try to make the place you live in a better place for you and other people? It seems that was the intention of all of the North Carolinians that voted for and against amendment one. The issue shouldn't be dropped just because some people in NC voted for amendment one.

It's not being dropped. Some friends of mine are posting against it on Facebook. Strangely enough, the gay ones aren't saying a word...

Personally? I've never been one to get embroiled in affairs that have nothing to do with me. It still annoys the hell out of me that people won't accept differences, but at the moment I've got enough troubles of my own to go rallying against an issue that I don't have much invested in either way.

Posted by CustomOtto

@believer258 said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@believer258 said:

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

Yes, because forcing our beliefs and morals down an entire state's throat is the right thing to do. If you live in NC and don't like it, then DONT FUCKING LIVE THERE. Marriage and things of that nature are state laws and regulations. The federal government should have no say in the matter.

Great. I'll take my 20 year old self and just move on out, 'cause the two hundred dollars to my name is gonna carry me pretty far, isn't it?

If it bugged you enough, sure why not?

I guess he'll just live on the side of the road then in California. That argument is dumb. It's unrealistic in some cases depending on your financial situation.

Why not try to make the place you live in a better place for you and other people? It seems that was the intention of all of the North Carolinians that voted for and against amendment one. The issue shouldn't be dropped just because some people in NC voted for amendment one.

It's not being dropped. Some friends of mine are posting against it on Facebook. Strangely enough, the gay ones aren't saying a word...

Personally? I've never been one to get embroiled in affairs that have nothing to do with me. It still annoys the hell out of me that people won't accept differences, but at the moment I've got enough troubles of my own to go rallying against an issue that I don't have much invested in either way.

And that is why these things pass.

Posted by FourWude

Radical suggestion, but maybe, just maybe the homosexuals can have their own nation. I say give them the Pacific northwest. Seattle is all yours.

Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@believer258 said:

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

Yes, because forcing our beliefs and morals down an entire state's throat is the right thing to do. If you live in NC and don't like it, then DONT FUCKING LIVE THERE. Marriage and things of that nature are state laws and regulations. The federal government should have no say in the matter.

Great. I'll take my 20 year old self and just move on out, 'cause the two hundred dollars to my name is gonna carry me pretty far, isn't it?

If it bugged you enough, sure why not?

I guess he'll just live on the side of the road then in California. That argument is dumb. It's unrealistic in some cases depending on your financial situation.

Why not try to make the place you live in a better place for you and other people? It seems that was the intention of all of the North Carolinians that voted for and against amendment one. The issue shouldn't be dropped just because some people in NC voted for amendment one.

I don't want this issue dropped... I want protests and boycotts. NC is wrong for what they did/are doing, but that doesn't change the fact that they have the right to be. And 63% of NC isn't just "some people". That's way more than half. Instead of attacking the problem by going after the neck of people's rights, people should express their own to do so. Educate them instead of stripping them of their rights. It may take a while, but the end result will be worth it.

Edited by frankfartmouth

Do you know how long it takes to get the wheels of a Constitutional plebiscite going in this country? If brought to bare, and then this amendment fails to gain a popular majority, do you know how long it will take to get another one up? There is no precedent for this, but my guess is “a long fucking time.”

The Equal Rights Amendment when through a similar trial. And it's not a majority popular vote that determines ratification, it's 38 states agreeing to adopt it. The ERA almost got there before a number of southern states backed out, and the bill stalled before its deadline. Attempts were made to resuscitate it, but it had lost its momentum. So there is precedent.

Oh, and I'm from NC too. Born there, raised there till I was 10, father still lives there. It's a great state, truly is, but like most southern states, except for the research triangle, Raleigh, Asheville, and some of the coastal areas, it's full of hillbillies. And hillbillies don't take too kindly to gays marryin n all. Just the way it is in the South.

Posted by Auswin

It's a terrible black eye to this wonderful state. I'm not even originally from NC, I'm from Australia- but have come to call North Carolina home. The vast majority of people are tolerant, caring individuals... sadly that majority didn't vote.

Yes, it passed with 61%, but it was 61% of the 37% who actually voted. This was due to the lunatic fringe of the Christian right motivating traditional non-voters to come out on mass. This was coupled with a ludicrous fear campaign by both sides that drove the uneducated to vote for the amendment, and the educated to be turned away from the polls all together by all the misinformation (even though this was the wrong ploy).

When it's all said and done most people will stick their heads in the sand, ignore the fact NC was the 32st state to bring in such legislature and pretend it's nothing but a bunch of bigoted hicks voting. The truth is that this is a serious national issue that needs to be addressed in a mature, informed fashion rather than pandering politicians looking to win brownie points by 'putting it in the peoples hands'.

Posted by htr10

@Auswin said:

Yes, it passed with 61%, but it was 61% of the 37% who actually voted.

This is the best point made in this thread. We're a country of people where so many of us refuse to make our opinions heard in the one place where they actually matter.

Posted by SethPhotopoulos

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@believer258 said:

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

Yes, because forcing our beliefs and morals down an entire state's throat is the right thing to do. If you live in NC and don't like it, then DONT FUCKING LIVE THERE. Marriage and things of that nature are state laws and regulations. The federal government should have no say in the matter.

Great. I'll take my 20 year old self and just move on out, 'cause the two hundred dollars to my name is gonna carry me pretty far, isn't it?

If it bugged you enough, sure why not?

I guess he'll just live on the side of the road then in California. That argument is dumb. It's unrealistic in some cases depending on your financial situation.

Why not try to make the place you live in a better place for you and other people? It seems that was the intention of all of the North Carolinians that voted for and against amendment one. The issue shouldn't be dropped just because some people in NC voted for amendment one.

I don't want this issue dropped... I want protests and boycotts. NC is wrong for what they did/are doing, but that doesn't change the fact that they have the right to be. And 63% of NC isn't just "some people". That's way more than half. Instead of attacking the problem by going after the neck of people's rights, people should express their own to do so. Educate them instead of stripping them of their rights. It may take a while, but the end result will be worth it.

And you don't do that by moving away from your state because you don't like what is going on there. It would probably be best to protest that stuff in the state that did it. And what about the 37% of the people that voted. The 67% are forcing their opinions on them. And even the 63% who voted for and the 37% who voted against isn't everyone in NC. That 67% could be a quater of the people who live in NC. And even if that 63% accurately portrays the majority of NC's opinions on the matter this is more of an equal rights issue which is in the hands of the federal government.

Why should the state have the right to remove rights from minorities or at least make it harder for them to attain equal rights?

Posted by notdavid

Coming from a southerner, it's a well known fact that the majority of southerners are fucking dicks. Let's not lump ourselves in with those assholes by trying to defend the south in general.

Posted by CustomOtto

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

Educate them instead of stripping them of their rights.

lol. Don't take away people's rights to take away people's rights!

Posted by jakob187

I've said it a million times. I'll say it again.

Marriage in and of itself was created as a religious ceremony, a unification of two people in the eyes of God (or whatever invisible man you wanna go with).

In turn, if separation of church and State are supposed to exist, it means that state nor federal governments should have anything to do with "marriage" in the first place.

Personally, I think "marriage" should be solely for religions who believe in marriage, and it's a private ceremony that holds no bearing as to what fucking benefits they get in tax breaks and all kinds of other shit. It's literally just their "thing". Meanwhile, States should be responsible for civil unions, while the Federal government needs to go sit on their fucking asses a little more and waste tax money...unless they decide they want to do something worthwhile for once.

Edited by Still_I_Cry

#5

*sigh*

You guys really are obsessed with those cave men aren't you?

Posted by SethPhotopoulos

@Still_I_Cry said:

#5

*sigh*

You guys really are obsessed with those cave men aren't you?

What does that even mean?

Posted by SethPhotopoulos

@Still_I_Cry: Never mind. I got ya.

Edited by Napalm

Blame the old people. Drag them into the streets and start executing them.

@Still_I_Cry said:

#5

*sigh*

You guys really are obsessed with those cave men aren't you?

Somebody is out to troll real fucking hard today. You've already been given too much attention.

Edited by Still_I_Cry

@Napalm: Nice job contradicting your post by responding. Wasn't trolling either :)

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Still_I_Cry: Never mind. I got ya.

No, I don't think you did. I wasn't referring to homosexuals, rather, the whole "stuck in the stone age" thing.

Seems to be the favorite remark amongst those who support gay marriage.

Posted by SethPhotopoulos

@Still_I_Cry said:

@Napalm: Nice job contradicting your post by responding. Wasn't trolling either :)

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@Still_I_Cry: Never mind. I got ya.

No, I don't think you did. I wasn't referring to homosexuals, rather, the whole "stuck in the stone age" thing.

Seems to be the favorite remark amongst those who support gay marriage.

No. The guy made a remark to people who oppose gay marriage are stuck in the stone age in his 5th point about the constitution. I just forgot he wrote that in there. Now you are just assuming things about me.

I don't think that opposing gay marriage makes the person a bad person or even homophobic. It's just a character flaw in my eyes.

Posted by Still_I_Cry

@SethPhotopoulos: Ah, I apologize for assuming you meant something else.

Posted by SethPhotopoulos

@Still_I_Cry said:

@SethPhotopoulos: Ah, I apologize for assuming you meant something else.

S'allright.

Edited by Flawed_System

Well, that was certainly some cringe worthy reading right there.

Posted by beej

@jakob187: And yet the state is in the business of recognizing marriage, and it's not something they're liable to stop anytime soon. Given that it seems like the appropriate course of action is to grant gay people the ability to marry.

Posted by Toxeia

Let me know if I'm crazy, but this has been my opinion of it since I was old enough to grasp this issue.

Straight couples, gay couples. The idea is the same, you've got someone you want to be with. That's cool. The issue comes from the denial of rights that are afforded to heterosexual couples. Most notably I recall stories about a man not being able to have a say in the disposal of his lover's body (he had wanted cremation) but the family of the deceased ignoring both their wishes and having him buried. Consider this just hearsay since I can't be bothered to find you links to this story. That's a total bummer and that kind of shit shouldn't happen.

The issue as I see it lies in that the government has co-opted the term "marriage." Marriage is defined by the church as a union between a man and woman in the eyes of God. So step one is to get "marriage" out of the government's hands and let it only be handled by the church. Second step is to allow equality between all people entered into a union, regardless of gender.

Basically I'm going with this clip from South Park without using a demeaning title. Thoughts? Am I being a complete prick for wanting to not allow gays to be "married" because it's an institution of religion?

Posted by CustomOtto

@Toxeia said:

Let me know if I'm crazy, but this has been my opinion of it since I was old enough to grasp this issue.

Straight couples, gay couples. The idea is the same, you've got someone you want to be with. That's cool. The issue comes from the denial of rights that are afforded to heterosexual couples. Most notably I recall stories about a man not being able to have a say in the disposal of his lover's body (he had wanted cremation) but the family of the deceased ignoring both their wishes and having him buried. Consider this just hearsay since I can't be bothered to find you links to this story. That's a total bummer and that kind of shit shouldn't happen.

The issue as I see it lies in that the government has co-opted the term "marriage." Marriage is defined by the church as a union between a man and woman in the eyes of God. So step one is to get "marriage" out of the government's hands and let it only be handled by the church. Second step is to allow equality between all people entered into a union, regardless of gender.

Basically I'm going with this clip from South Park without using a demeaning title. Thoughts? Am I being a complete prick for wanting to not allow gays to be "married" because it's an institution of religion?

Even if marriage and civil unions provided the exact same rights, it is a case of "separate yet equal." You can't be married, because marriage is for us, not you. Civil unions are less than marriage. They mean less. They are inferior to real marriages. If it was the same thing it would be called the same thing.

Posted by TheRealJpoe

I'm personally against this law & support gay marriage. Yet I'm pretty floored by the amount of people attacking those who support the bill for, oh I don't know, having their own fucking opinion? If that's how they want their state to be then it's on them & we shouldn't ridicule them for it. It's not like you can't move to another state & get married if you really want. As much as some of you guy's think your right, the south has a very different culture & society. Is it always for the best, no. But it pisses me off to see people verbally attack others for having their own opinion, even if it may seem stupid to us.

Posted by CustomOtto

@HardcoreScene08 said:

I'm personally against this law & support gay marriage. Yet I'm pretty floored by the amount of people attacking those who support the bill for, oh I don't know, having their own fucking opinion? If that's how they want their state to be then it's on them & we shouldn't ridicule them for it. It's not like you can't move to another state & get married if you really want. As much as some of you guy's think your right, the south has a very different culture & society. Is it always for the best, no. But it pisses me off to see people verbally attack others for having their own opinion, even if it may seem stupid to us.

This is not just about opinions. It's about taking rights away from people. Moving is an unrealistic option as was already covered. Straight people don't have to uproot themselves to marry the people they love and still not have it count the same.

Edited by Toxeia

@CustomOtto But they aren't the same. Like I said, marriage is a religious thing. A union would be recognized by the state. I'm a straight male who, unless things get real weird, would join in a union with a straight female. I'm not religious, so I won't seek a religious ceremony. Why would a gay couple seek to be recognized by a group of people that foam at the mouth at the mere thought of homosexuals? That's what I was trying to get across. Edit: I see how that clip I linked would support the "separate but equal" thing. Sorry for using it that way.

Posted by jeffrud

I feel like I should pound the ceiling with a broom and tell everybody to quiet down or something. This got a lot of conversation going. I might do a follow-up to this with some other thoughts in the near future, so there's that.

Posted by Morrow

@jeffrud said:

A majority of North Carolinian voters have made an adult decision, and it should be respected as such. However, it is a shit decision.

Haha, well said.

Posted by YamiB

@HardcoreScene08 said:

I'm personally against this law & support gay marriage. Yet I'm pretty floored by the amount of people attacking those who support the bill for, oh I don't know, having their own fucking opinion? If that's how they want their state to be then it's on them & we shouldn't ridicule them for it. It's not like you can't move to another state & get married if you really want. As much as some of you guy's think your right, the south has a very different culture & society. Is it always for the best, no. But it pisses me off to see people verbally attack others for having their own opinion, even if it may seem stupid to us.

People should be free to have their own opinions, that does not mean that they should be immune to criticism when they express reprehensible ones. If some small town politician expressed the idea that white people are inherently superior to other races, I would correctly call him a racist and oppose his election. That does not mean that I oppose his right to have that opinion.

We really should have done more to fix the South during Reconstruction.

Posted by smitty86

Not I want to touch any of this conversation (as many of you seem to be on the borderline of crazy) but I would just like to know where all this "marriage is 100% a religious matter" is coming from? You do know that marriage is pretty much entering into a legal contract with someone, one that in result has a great number of legal ramifications. You don't even need to have a religious affiliation to be married. Just because many tend to tie their marriage to their religion does not mean that religion should now dictate the nature of marriage as a whole. And don't use the whole "well historically...." b/c then you may want to pick up a book and look as to what other things were viewed like "historically" and see if we should have just kept that going.

Posted by falling_fast

is it bad that I thought this would be about the cancelled Obsidian game

Posted by YamiB

Since some of the talk in here has been related to the region I thought this was an interesting and related graphic.