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Posted by The_Moose

lol

Posted by DallasTheGamer

I kind of like Episode 1 so I might check this one out.

Posted by CharAznable

That was kinda painful to watch.

Posted by squidracerX

Ryan, he is blue because he swims in ice water! AHAHAHAHAH! get it!?

Anyway, the enemies stopping you mid run just because you cant see them and they are smack in the middle is very dumb as you said - why not give you a second of slow down like in the Splatters that lets you react and lock on, and then it speeds back up not breaking your run if you pull it off. as you said the running is the fun part!

Posted by Deusoma

This doesn't look as bad as I was expecting, but I think I'd only pay 15 bucks for multiple "episodes", there just isn't a lot of content here. The co-op helps, though.

Posted by Axon64

@Ithmoliar said:

I feel that the whole point of a Sonic game is in the replay value. The platforming parts that suck and slow the game down are a grindy trial and error based mechanic. But I feel once you have played a level over and over again, that sense of flow, knowing where all the enemies are, knowing when to jump, when to spin is where the fun lies. To be honest, I'm mostly referring to Sonic Rush. Once you got a level down, the feeling of blasting through a level was exhilarating and it also had some really good twitch platforming sections. So Sonic sucks initially but the more you learn a level the faster you fly through it and the better you feel. The 3D Sonic's eat mad-dick though.

Agreed completely with the first part. This is what a Sonic game looks like when you know what you are doing:

Can't agree with the end, though. Colors and Generations were both fantastic games. Unleashed wasn't the best game ever but still fun.

Posted by RaidenMitsuru

At least this game runs at 60FPS.

Posted by OriginalGman

I'm well aware that no one at Giant Bomb gives a shit about Sonic, to the point where I'd be happy if you guys just never talked about him again unless you could say something you haven't said before, instead of the same old snark. Lord knows I didn't care about Sonic for a good long time until Generations came out and pleasantly surprised me.

But you guys really need to get your facts straight on Sonic 4 Episode 1. It wasn't received nearly as poorly as you think it was. I actually really enjoyed it, despite all the tiresome complaints about momentum and dash attacking. I thought the level design was of the same caliber as the original games, and I even really liked the boulder-riding sequence despite HATING fucking rolling boulders in games. Such a tired mechanic, but it was done really well in Episode 1.

Posted by DeviTiffany

Every time Sonic and Tails does that tumble movie all I can think of is, "It's nice that SEGA finally understands what kind of fanbase still plays the Sonic series and puts in stuff like Sonic and Tails rubbing their bodies against each other to support those people."

Posted by Ithmoliar

I feel that the whole point of a Sonic game is in the replay value. The platforming parts that suck and slow the game down are a grindy trial and error based mechanic. But I feel once you have played a level over and over again, that sense of flow, knowing where all the enemies are, knowing when to jump, when to spin is where the fun lies. To be honest, I'm mostly referring to Sonic Rush. Once you got a level down, the feeling of blasting through a level was exhilarating and it also had some really good twitch platforming sections. So Sonic sucks initially but the more you learn a level the faster you fly through it and the better you feel. The 3D Sonic's eat mad-dick though.

Posted by AgileNate

Sega failed to evolve Sonic. When we got a 3D Mario we loved it and wanted even more while a return to the 2D in between 3D releases was a great change up. When Sonic Adventure was released for the Dreamcast, things looked good for Sega and Sonic but after that the creativity failed to continue on making it even better. Thus having the consumers yell for it to go back to its roots. Its hurting the series. One thing I loved about Sonic the Hedgehog was the environment around him(In both game and TV versions ). Adventure gave me a mysterious world to explore, though a glitchy one(take into fact it was a launch title for the Dreamcast). Now with these new ones I see nothing of interest for the levels.

Posted by arch4non

This was painful to watch.

Posted by Axon64

@scott_harrigan said:

They finally released episode 2. This game presents a return to the fun that sonic should be. This really was the last good sonic game that was released since Sonic Adventure 2. If they keep making games like this with the original feel, the series can return to its former awesomeness. The only criticism I have for this game is that sonic does not feel as fast as he did in the older games. I don't know what the Sonic Team was doing with all the non-sonic sonic titles that they released.

http://www.videodetective.com/games/sonic-and-the-black-knight/412777#.T7k54euWclc

This is so refreshing with garbage like this being released. How is this anything like Sonic. Admittedly I took Black Knight personally because I love Arthurian Lore.

Have you never played Generations or Colors? Also Sonic Adventure 2 really is trash, along with SA1. They're buggy messes.

Posted by scott_harrigan

They finally released episode 2. This game presents a return to the fun that sonic should be. This really was the last good sonic game that was released since Sonic Adventure 2. If they keep making games like this with the original feel, the series can return to its former awesomeness. The only criticism I have for this game is that sonic does not feel as fast as he did in the older games. I don't know what the Sonic Team was doing with all the non-sonic sonic titles that they released.

http://www.videodetective.com/games/sonic-and-the-black-knight/412777#.T7k54euWclc

This is so refreshing with garbage like this being released. How is this anything like Sonic. Admittedly I took Black Knight personally because I love Arthurian Lore.

Posted by Axon64

@yeah_write said:

THIS.

Even back when it was new and I was enamored with his edgy attitude and absurd game-breaking speed, I still got frustrated with how poorly the speed and platforming gelled. I couldn't tell if the game wanted me to go fast and tear through each stage, or slow down and take my time. As the series went on, they started throwing in more "full stops" that required you to carefully navigate the environment. That wasn't fun, at all.

Sonic needs a Dustforce-like makeover, or maybe even something like this:

I've played the hell out of Dustforce and love that game, but you're pratically comparing games from two entirely different genres. Dustforce is a technical platformer. It focuses on air movement and acrobatics, with a smaller emphasis on momentum.

Sonic is a straight up platformer with a twist in that it's a generally more fast paced game than most other platformers. The "roller coaster" parts are just there to spice things up in between platforming segments. Anyone claiming that Sonic is supposed to be all about speed and you're never supposed to stop moving is a dumbass. In the classic games, speed was your reward for memorizing the terrain. As you got better at the game, you got better at flawlessly traversing through platforming segments without breaking the flow. THAT is your gel between speed and platforming.

But if that really doesn't satisfy you, Boost meter. It's not in this game, but it's exactly like the Dustforce combo mechanic except it rewards you more frequently.

Edited by Th3_James

Sonic 2, 3, knuckles, cd

That is sonic to me, anything else is just complete utter shit.

Also, they should have made sonic 4 an all sprite game and reuse sounds and other assets from sonic 3. If they just did that I think I would have actually gave a fuck.

Posted by acelariato

@peritus: In the older games there was a lot of slowed down platform sections and exploration. It wasn't all 100mph runs into death pits. A good example of this is Lava Reef Zone from Sonic & Knuckles. Barely any high speed sections. A lot of jumping and moving slow. I think for Sonic 1 & 2 the first stages can be seen as what the media thinks Sonic is but as soon as it hits Zone 2 it is all paced platforming. Did this make sense? Let me know. I sometimes find it hard to describe stuff.

Posted by yeah_write

@Gilby said:

How do people still not understand what the problem with Sonic is?

Here's a hint: What do Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, Runman:Race Around The World, and Dustforce have that Sonic games don't?

Give Up?

MOMENTUM-based game mechanics!

In sonic there's no real game system about continuing to go fast.In DK:JB you are rewarded for continually moving forward without touching the ground. In Runman you are rewarded for maintaining your speed throughout the level. In Dustforce you are rewarded for constantly progressing through "untouched" surfaces.

All of these are mechanics which urge the player to never stop moving, encouraging them to replay levels to earn rewards if they are able to beat it without stopping.

Sonic has none of this, or at least no direct mechanic (something like a combo multiplier that resets if you don't kill an enemy every 5 seconds) to make his "speed" mean something significant relative to movement through the stage.

Without any relativity there is no context for the character's movement, making for another typical forgettable digital roller-coaster.

THIS.

Even back when it was new and I was enamored with his edgy attitude and absurd game-breaking speed, I still got frustrated with how poorly the speed and platforming gelled. I couldn't tell if the game wanted me to go fast and tear through each stage, or slow down and take my time. As the series went on, they started throwing in more "full stops" that required you to carefully navigate the environment. That wasn't fun, at all.

Sonic needs a Dustforce-like makeover, or maybe even something like this:

Posted by peritus

@acelariato said:

Another Sonic game and another spate of game journalists having no idea what made Sonic games great. Speed was only one part. SEGA's obsession with speed in the newer titles due to listening to negative game reviews is terrible. Though as a PAL gamer my Sonic was slower by default haha!

Then what was it about?

As a Snes household we didnt see a lot of sonic. So im genuinly interested to find out! ( did i spell that right? )

Posted by acelariato

Another Sonic game and another spate of game journalists having no idea what made Sonic games great. Speed was only one part. SEGA's obsession with speed in the newer titles due to listening to negative game reviews is terrible. Though as a PAL gamer my Sonic was slower by default haha!

Posted by Sauson

I didn't like Sonic when it was on the Genesis, I didn't like Sonic when it was on the Dreamcast, and I don't like the modern Sonic games. I've never understood the love for these games and I really don't understand how people are getting upset over people making fun of 'em.

Posted by SatelliteOfLove

Sonic had great platforming, but you had to "gel" with it by going high up or on secret paths.
 
Note the stupid signs here instead of 3's Casino Night Zone (you know where).

Posted by BPRJCTX

Generations was Awesome!!!

All Stars Racing, as well.

I even liked his Tennis game.

Funny enough, i enjoy those more than the "Mario" versions...

Give me more of those.

Posted by Paul_Str337

@Potter9156: Because the robots are freezing the water directly in front of them?

Posted by Potter9156

Why is it frozen underwater, but the water isn't... Ice.

Posted by LikeaSsur

@Lumley said:

I'm done with Sonic, I got Generations last year and it was great but I don't want to touch a new Sonic game for a very long time.

You and me both buddy. Sonic Generations was it for me for a loooooong time.

Posted by m2cks

ITT: people mad about other people mad about video games.

Edited by BlazeHedgehog

Has @PatrickKlepek or @Ryan ever considered that it's been so long since those initial Genesis games that the guys who make newer games like Sonic 4 don't get what made the old games fun? That when you say, "When I stop moving, that's when it's not fun anymore" is actually something long time Sonic fans point to as what games like Sonic 4 get wrong versus, say, Sonic the Hedgehog 2?

Posted by Willy105
Posted by Vrikk

People are upset that they don't like Sonic games? Does anyone EVER listen to the Bombcast? They almost always destroy none triple A games for being stupid games (except for Vinnie and his crew of the weird flight stick loving fools that they are).

Posted by Goldanas

You know, I was about to get mad.

When they were talking about how there were never any cooperative elements in the original Sonic titles with Tails, I was steaming.

When Patrick was constantly mashing the jump button, and getting mad when he was flying off target, I was fuming.

When they started to go into the "Where's the gameplay?" schtick, I wanted to break every piece of electronic equipment in my house along with every modern video game.

But then I thought:

Why?

Why should I give a rat's ass about what some indie hipster, reddit meme-spouting piece of shit who couldn't play his way out of a decent game to save his life thinks about a game that isn't about "Push up on the joystick: receive pretentious 'artful' 'story'"?

Why should I care about the opinion of someone who maybe didn't even play the original games, and forms his opinions based upon what others have said?

I played the games, and I played this one. I know when they are factually wrong, and playing like a bunch of imbeciles. I know that the games (and this one) are fun titles with some precise controls and some interesting mechanics and more "gameplay" than almost any indie game released this year thus far combined. It's not the second coming of Christ, but it is not the terrible game made out to be here. What happened here is what happens when someone refuses to even play the game. It's like watching someone who isn't particularly great at bowling, purposefully throw gutter-balls and then faffing about like bafoon afterwards in an attempt to be ironic, while not realizing that they are not masking their inability, only emphasizing it.

I'm fine with the opinion I have formed based on my own actual informed experience. That's my knowledge. They can have theirs.

It's not worth getting upset over.

Video Games.

Edited by Axon64

I really don't understand the people saying "LOL SONIC IS DEAD, PROOF RIGHT HERE, STOP MAKING SONIC GAMES HURR" when the past few Sonic games (Colors, Generations, Unleashed to an extent) have been generally well-received by fans and critics alike. Hell, Sonic 4 Episode 2 is actually a pretty fun game with a few problems, but I'm sure none of you care enough about that to stop parading around on the "SONIC CYCLE! SONIC IS DEAD! LET'S ALL HATE SONIC!" bandwagon without having played any of the recent games.

The actual truth is that Sonic Team is finally getting their act together. You can deny it all you want in favor of retarded hate-memes, but it won't change.

Posted by Paul_Str337

Sonic Rush was perfectly good at what it was trying to do and after some of the recent 3D games at the time was a revelation. It's sequel Sonic Rush Adventure was trash as it threw in too many DS stylus minigames for no reason and lacked it's predecessors style and imagination.

Modern Sonic gameplay as seen in Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations is the best Sonic has been since the shift to 3D. They have a crazy amount of speed but require a lot of skill to race to the end of each level with the best grade. It's almost like memorizing a track in a racing game. Only the 2D parts of Modern Sonic levels let things down as for some reason Sonic is ultra floaty when jumping and lacks the momentum seen in Sonic 4 Episode II.

Posted by GunstarRed

@Gilby:

You are wrong. This is what sonic is best at now. This might look like an on rails, push to the right roller coaster to someone that hasn't played it, but to do this level with this much precision and skill is very, very impressive. A sloppy player would be seeing far more of the 2D platforming and entirely different pathways.

The boost mechanic only works if you move at speed AND collect rings/ do tricks. playing like this rewards you with both shortcuts and a better score at the end of the level. Look at a ton of this Japanese dudes videos of Sonic Generations. he does whole runs of levels at insane speeds and collecting all of the collectibles within a level.

This shit is awesome and what Sonic should be from now on.

Posted by manbot47

Took me a while to realize that outside of Sonic 2 i just didn't really dig this franchise. That ham fisted attitude and edge they gave him worked its magic on 5 year old me.

Posted by YukoAsho

@bonbolapti said:

I like to think people wouldn't been so huffy about Sonic games if they actually used some skill :P

Posted by believer258
Posted by YummyTreeSap

@believer258: Sonic Rush was horrible. Absolute trash.

I ultimately disagree with what has been said in this video about the Sonic series. Sonic 1 through 3&K are absolutely still fun when you're not going fast. Those fast parts were actually relatively few and far between, but great treats when they did happen. Somewhere along the lines the Sonic Team has forgotten that, and we've ended up with really shit games that try to make almost the entire game those fast moments. Throw in bad music (when the Sonic series has always had amazing music), hand-holdy crap like the auto-aim jumps, and terrible platforming for the moments when you're not holding right, and the series just isn't fun anymore.

Did they fix the physics for Sonic 4: Ep. II, by the way? Momentum was always a huge part of the Sonic games, but it was mysteriously absent from Ep. I. The fact that the Genesis games had better physics than a current-gen game is absurd.

Posted by Gilby

How do people still not understand what the problem with Sonic is?

Here's a hint: What do Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, Runman:Race Around The World, and Dustforce have that Sonic games don't?

Give Up?

MOMENTUM-based game mechanics!

In sonic there's no real game system about continuing to go fast.In DK:JB you are rewarded for continually moving forward without touching the ground. In Runman you are rewarded for maintaining your speed throughout the level. In Dustforce you are rewarded for constantly progressing through "untouched" surfaces.

All of these are mechanics which urge the player to never stop moving, encouraging them to replay levels to earn rewards if they are able to beat it without stopping.

Sonic has none of this, or at least no direct mechanic (something like a combo multiplier that resets if you don't kill an enemy every 5 seconds) to make his "speed" mean something significant relative to movement through the stage.

Without any relativity there is no context for the character's movement, making for another typical forgettable digital roller-coaster.

Posted by believer258

Well, Sonic Rush was pretty good. Everyone seems to forget the handheld Sonic games which were actually all right. I remember beating Sonic Rush a good number of times when I first got a DS.

Edited by Paul_Str337

@bonbolapti: People seem to go "Ohh, Sonic game!" and rush forwards with reckless abandon then complain when they die because of, you know, platforming.

It's odd to me living in a world where Mario is considered the pinnacle of platforming because as a kid in the UK it was all about Sonic and the fat plumber was slow and unresponsive in comparison.

Edited by Axon64

One of my problems is how flow breaking the team moves are. It takes like 3 seconds for the animation to play every time you use it, and when the main attraction of the Sonic series is speed and flow, this is really frustrating to me.

The game has it's problems. It's certainly not the best Sonic game, in this video they just seem to be very uninformed about a lot of the Sonic stuff.

Posted by jbuchan76
@YukoAsho
 
Secondly, for what it's worth, @patrickklepek is a dick about anything that isn't an indie game, just like Jeff is a dick about anything that isn't an FPS or a fighting game and Alex is a dick about everything.

That is Awesome!  Well Said… I laughed out loud when i read that.
I used to hate Alex, but I've moved on to hating Patrick more then i ever hated Alex.  The snark / dick-ness gets old. 
Posted by DougCL

can we just cool it with the sonic games for a few decades please?

Posted by bonbolapti

I like to think people wouldn't been so huffy about Sonic games if they actually used some skill :P

Posted by phantomzxro

@ll_Exile_ll said:

If they are just going to come into every sonic quicklook predisposed to hating the game, making snide comment about how terrible the series has become (despite the fact that there have been several good sonic games in a row), and demonstrate how uninformed they are about the original games, then what is the point of doing a quicklook for every sonic game. I love 99.999% of the stuff Giantbomb does, but it comes of as extremely unprofessional when they are so predisposed to hating a game combined with their total lack of knowledge about the gameplay and design of the genesis games.

Yep! Could not finish the quicklook the i don't get sonic is getting old and sonic generations was pretty cool.

Posted by MeatSim

Even Tails wants Sonic to be dead now.

Posted by dropabombonit

Is it just me or does the music suck in this game, sounds like repetitive and bad midi music

Posted by mr_shoeless

@Zleunamme: Around where I live the ExpressMart gas stations have them.

Posted by Greebman

Why are there still sonic games. Sonic is over dudes. Someone tell the devs.