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Posted by Saganomics

@Brodehouse said:

@Animasta said:

and there's a difference between reading someone's story of what actually happened and playing it and I hope you'd know the difference.

And here's why our medium isn't even taken seriously by the people who claim to enjoy it. It's okay for books, or movies, or graphic novels, or music to focus on real life war stories, but if there's a controller involved, suddenly it's gauche. This is the exact dialogue that says video games are not a meaningful form of expression, and not a legitimate art form. The problem is that they are art, and they can express the thoughts and feelings of the situation just like any medium.

You're right in general, but if you think yet another game where you are a badass white bro gunning down hundreds of brown people single-handedly is actually a meaningful expression of anything (other than the unquenchable thirst video game enthusiasts have for jingoistic power-fantasy murder porn) then I don't know what to tell you.

Video games are absolutely a legitimate form of art, it's just that very, very few developers bother saying anything worthwhile with them.

Edited by Spoonman671

Yep, even professionals can't help themselves when it comes to unwarranted EA-bashing.  It's embarrassing.

Posted by NorseDudeTR

Man...Because I´ll never see any of the folks involved in making this game, I can say with some confidence that EA has the worst PR people in the ENTIRE KNOWN AND PROBABLY ALSO UNKNOWN UNIVERSE! Those people must genuinely be dead inside.

Posted by NorseDudeTR

@Iodine: Tell me when you leave, I´ll tag along.

Posted by DarkbeatDK
Posted by Animasta

@Brodehouse said:

@Animasta said:

and there's a difference between reading someone's story of what actually happened and playing it and I hope you'd know the difference.

And here's why our medium isn't even taken seriously by the people who claim to enjoy it. It's okay for books, or movies, or graphic novels, or music to focus on real life war stories, but if there's a controller involved, suddenly it's gauche. This is the exact dialogue that says video games are not a meaningful form of expression, and not a legitimate art form. The problem is that they are art, and they can express the thoughts and feelings of the situation just like any medium.

there is a DIFFERENCE between playing a game and watching a movie or reading a book though. you know that; if there's a movie about, say, killing osama, and there's also a game about killing osama, the game is automatically going to be way more impactful since you're playing it. and games can do that, but it's a lot harder to get right, and medal of honor is NOT going to get it right. fuck, man, other than spec ops can YOU think of a good modern military shooter that actually has a good message and a good story, whatever? I think Metro 2033 has a good story and message but that's post apocalyptica.

Posted by JerichoBlyth

Still sums up my thoughts about this game entirely.

They will do anything to get anybody's attention this close to the release date. The timing of the information being revealed is also a little unsettling...being 9/11 and all (UK time at least lol)

Posted by Amaru25

Bin Laden was a terrible human, but we did murder him. No one seems to have a problem with that. sickening.

Posted by Gunharp

Here is the official blog post the piece does not link to, not sure if its the same as the press release:

http://www.medalofhonor.com/blog/2012/09/zero-dark-thirty-map-pack

The trailer is silly, but the text is fine. I'm not in the "this is awful" camp on this.

@ThatPrimeGuy said:

What Jeff said about the game during the PAX Panel is dead on, they're trying to make a good game, the teams commited, but every time they open their PR mouth.....

Pretty much!

Posted by EndlessLotus

Wow. Something rEAper didn't steal from CoD....

Edited by Seppli

I am in the target demographic of Medal of Honor. I enjoy modern military FPS games. I could easily be excited for Medal of Honor. For a brief amount of time, I was. I cannot wrap my head around how EA is marketing the game. The game's pretty much a non-entity in their marketing campaign, it's all IRL-angles - Linkin Park, Real Life Soldiers, the charity angle... and now Bin Laden/movie themed DLC.

Unless reviews put this game on the map big time, or a demo/beta blows my mind, Medal of Honor doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell to grab my attention and time and money. Mostly - because their entire marketing budget is being spent on hogwash, instead of showing me the game. EA spends a lot of money on not showing the game. That's not only suspicious, it's retarded.

Aside from 3 trailers with some gameplay snippets, the following footage is pretty much the only one on the net. One month from release. WTF!

Posted by Hailinel

The jump-knee of justice.

Posted by Saganomics

@Amaru25 said:

Bin Laden was a terrible human, but we did murder him. No one seems to have a problem with that. sickening.

Yeah, the world is likely a better place without him in it, but I found myself pretty repulsed by the crazy amount of celebration footage aired on the news when word spread about killing him. For a nation that constantly claims the moral high ground, sometimes we're kind of bad at the whole morality thing.

Posted by Brodehouse

@Animasta said:

@Brodehouse said:

@Animasta said:

and there's a difference between reading someone's story of what actually happened and playing it and I hope you'd know the difference.

And here's why our medium isn't even taken seriously by the people who claim to enjoy it. It's okay for books, or movies, or graphic novels, or music to focus on real life war stories, but if there's a controller involved, suddenly it's gauche. This is the exact dialogue that says video games are not a meaningful form of expression, and not a legitimate art form. The problem is that they are art, and they can express the thoughts and feelings of the situation just like any medium.

there is a DIFFERENCE between playing a game and watching a movie or reading a book though. you know that; if there's a movie about, say, killing osama, and there's also a game about killing osama, the game is automatically going to be way more impactful since you're playing it. and games can do that, but it's a lot harder to get right, and medal of honor is NOT going to get it right. fuck, man, other than spec ops can YOU think of a good modern military shooter that actually has a good message and a good story, whatever? I think Metro 2033 has a good story and message but that's post apocalyptica.

There is a difference in that the mediums are not identical. Otherwise there would be no distinction between them. But the intrinsic value of artistic creation itself doesn't stop just because it's an interactive piece instead of passive. Absolutely not. Interactivity does not somehow require that it prove it has a right to exist anymore than images or words.

Medal of Honor might not get it right, but that's on the writers, not the medium. Find who the writers are and say they shouldn't write stories based on recent world history, don't say games can't do it.

Oh, and 'good message'? It's not up to art to be positive, reaffirming, or speak to preferred social mores. Judging art's right to exist on perceived social value rather than its intrinsic value as art is something the Soviets implemented, with predictable results.

@Saganomics said:

@Brodehouse said:

@Animasta said:

and there's a difference between reading someone's story of what actually happened and playing it and I hope you'd know the difference.

And here's why our medium isn't even taken seriously by the people who claim to enjoy it. It's okay for books, or movies, or graphic novels, or music to focus on real life war stories, but if there's a controller involved, suddenly it's gauche. This is the exact dialogue that says video games are not a meaningful form of expression, and not a legitimate art form. The problem is that they are art, and they can express the thoughts and feelings of the situation just like any medium.

You're right in general, but if you think yet another game where you are a badass white bro gunning down hundreds of brown people single-handedly is actually a meaningful expression of anything (other than the unquenchable thirst video game enthusiasts have for jingoistic power-fantasy murder porn) then I don't know what to tell you.

Video games are absolutely a legitimate form of art, it's just that very, very few developers bother saying anything worthwhile with them.

Look into every other form of art in the world. Yet another brown shooter is yet another love song is yet another crime novel is yet another police procedural is yet another impressionist landscape. A preponderance of a stylistic choice does not equate with denial of its right to be created.

Posted by JackOhara

@Saganomics said:

@Brodehouse said:

@Animasta said:

and there's a difference between reading someone's story of what actually happened and playing it and I hope you'd know the difference.

And here's why our medium isn't even taken seriously by the people who claim to enjoy it. It's okay for books, or movies, or graphic novels, or music to focus on real life war stories, but if there's a controller involved, suddenly it's gauche. This is the exact dialogue that says video games are not a meaningful form of expression, and not a legitimate art form. The problem is that they are art, and they can express the thoughts and feelings of the situation just like any medium.

You're right in general, but if you think yet another game where you are a badass white bro gunning down hundreds of brown people single-handedly is actually a meaningful expression of anything (other than the unquenchable thirst video game enthusiasts have for jingoistic power-fantasy murder porn) then I don't know what to tell you.

Video games are absolutely a legitimate form of art, it's just that very, very few developers bother saying anything worthwhile with them.

Well said.

Posted by dvorak

It would be good to mention that basically the entire country of Pakistan, and even most of the citizens of Abbottabad do not believe that Osama Bin Laden died at that facility. He definitely is dead, it's possible that he may have been there at some point, and a few of his wives definitely lived and died there. It's however highly unlikely that he died there.

Posted by Animasta

@Brodehouse: you miss the inherent difference between games and anything else; you directly participate. You, or a character you control, are part of the story of this world. I wasn't even saying that it shouldn't happen (like you seem to have inferred), but merely that games have to be, at least, twice as careful with really morally bankrupt stuff than any other medium does. I'm not even talking the common tropes; killing tones of dudes in some fake GTA city is one thing, but killing a bunch of "real life" Al Qaeda is quite another. I just think you have to be aware of the difference between gaming and other mediums.

Posted by Dark_Lord_Spam

@Patman99 said:

I really hope there are not people out there who will buy the game solely for that map.

It's had quite the opposite effect on me. I've now gone from mild interest in seeing if this game turns out to be a solid, fun shooter to utter disgust and rejection. Great job, marketing team!

Posted by thedj93

@CH3BURASHKA said:

@BlastProcessing said:

FUGITIVE HUNTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

"Bulletproof vest; shot to the chest" fo life!

I feel slightly embarrassed by this, but having watched this trailer, I'm actually very intrigued by the game. The weapon variety looks fun, and the tech looks decent for an early 00's game.

holy fuck dmx?

Posted by thedj93

@GAMEPHRENIC said:

If anyone does not realize how GREAT MOHW is, then your a complete idiot. My copy has been ordered. Its also likely, those that does not pick up #MOHW likely lives with their Mom and needs permission to purchase a game.

Its a Man's Game, so keep being a COD Noob, only real Men are allowed on MOHW....hate that the future is here and stay small minded. Intelligent Men will purchase #MOHW, the rest are just kids!

what makes you so sure its really good? have you played it yourself?

Posted by BlastProcessing

@thedj93 said:

@CH3BURASHKA said:

@BlastProcessing said:

FUGITIVE HUNTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

"Bulletproof vest; shot to the chest" fo life!

I feel slightly embarrassed by this, but having watched this trailer, I'm actually very intrigued by the game. The weapon variety looks fun, and the tech looks decent for an early 00's game.

holy fuck dmx?

Thankfully(sadly), it's not him.

Edited by MightyDuck

This just sounds so...gross, for lack of a better word. I just don't feel good about it. It seems so tacky to somehow cash on the "former whereabouts" of such a horrible individual.

Posted by Chtasm
Posted by Patman99

@Dark_Lord_Spam: There is still hope for this world. This kind of stuff drives me nuts. Shameless marketing at its best or worse depending on your point of view.

Posted by studnoth1n

@GAMEPHRENIC: please don't have children.

Posted by Blackout62

I am surprised no one has gone with the "MoH laden with Bin-Laden headline".

Posted by PandaBear

@Dark_Lord_Spam said:

@Patman99 said:

I really hope there are not people out there who will buy the game solely for that map.

It's had quite the opposite effect on me. I've now gone from mild interest in seeing if this game turns out to be a solid, fun shooter to utter disgust and rejection. Great job, marketing team!

I'm not disgusted, I mean they can do whatever they want with MoH, but I just know this won't give any actual insight into the events that lead up to the death of Bin Laden. It'll just be by the numbers shit.

But anyway, this may be the nail in the coffin for a few people ... either way, it's not as popular as CoD, looks less fun than Battlefield and doesn't have enough of a point of difference to be on my radar. This is a series in need of an identity.

Posted by Abendlaender

EA kinda reminds me of a 5 year old running arround screaming and begging everybody to watch how much sand he can eat

Posted by Sooty

being called "Warfighter" is honestly enough to make me not buy this game. It's so ridiculous.

Posted by hollitz

A modern military shooter doing something exploitative? Stop the presses. This has never happened in every single modern military shooter ever.

Posted by KaneRobot

@sofacitysweetheart said:

Oh... it's another EA COD clone. lol

Well that's ok, since CoD was originally a Medal of Honor clone. "Takesies backsies" is actually one of the most important rules of gaming, not that you would understand since you're not in the industry.

Posted by l4wd0g

MoH's is different. Its setting is very plausible and caters far better to this type of DLC than other modern FPS.

Posted by Dallas_Raines

Barack Hussein Obama

Posted by Brodehouse
@Animasta

@Brodehouse: you miss the inherent difference between games and anything else; you directly participate. You, or a character you control, are part of the story of this world. I wasn't even saying that it shouldn't happen (like you seem to have inferred), but merely that games have to be, at least, twice as careful with really morally bankrupt stuff than any other medium does. I'm not even talking the common tropes; killing tones of dudes in some fake GTA city is one thing, but killing a bunch of "real life" Al Qaeda is quite another. I just think you have to be aware of the difference between gaming and other mediums.

Being 'a character in the world' is no different than first person or third person omniscient sequences in novels or otherwise. I'm not Arya Stark just because I'm seeing the world through her eyes. Games are an active medium rather than a passive, that doesn't give them special rules. In fact, books and graphic novels also qualify, since unlike film or music, they cannot continue without audience participation.

It appears like everyone is saying they shouldn't be allowed to do it. That the mere idea of a game that bases itself on real events is reprehensible. I believe it'll be bad.. Well actually I believe it will be largely irrelevant and we'll look back on the game journalists trying to whip people into exactly these kind of arguments. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to come in here and say "Bin Laden? You can't do that! Someone stop them!"

Video games are a different medium than books or film, just like film is different from books or video games. But the idea that games can't have real world accounts because they're absorbed through a controller rather than paper or speakers is bankrupt. It's just that same bias that covers more art forms than just games; interactive art is not 'real' art. The only art we accept is that in which the audience has absolutely no agency.
Posted by migrations

I love how the helicopter gets there and the dude kicks Bin Laden in the head three times and tiger knees him into the helicoptor

Posted by Animasta

@Brodehouse: jeez, I never even said that the gaming shouldn't be able to do this, just that it needs to be more careful.

and if you wanna get technical books can continue without audience participation if you are listening to an audio book

Posted by WMoyer83

I wish there was some sort of game that could mix together cheesy Linkin Park songs, mediocre first person shooting, and my Fox News informed fascination with Terrorist Fugitive Osama Bin Laden....oh wait. It looks like my lord and savior EA has answered my prayers! Rejoice!

Posted by RAMBO604

Danger Close and EA have absolutely no idea what they are doing with this franchise. All of the Tier 1 crap from the first game fell flat. Lets use an obscure term for something that sounds dumb when the common vernacular people are used to is SEAL Team or Delta Force.

The Linkin Park thing is even weirder and more forced than Transformers. A band that fell from relevancy 7 years ago and is generally a punch line to jokes now.

And now promoting Zero Dark Thirty through a map pack is so bizarre. Not the Bin Laden angle but just associating with a movie no one seems excited for from a director who filled her (albeit critically acclaimed) last movie with glaring inaccuracies that anyone with passing familiarity with the military could point out.

Anyone whose served in Iraq utterly hates The Hurt Locker for not getting anything right. And for MoH which is trying to be hamfistedly reverent to the military is now promoting another movie that will likely be inaccurate and totally fictional.

Posted by Glitterbomber

So the bad guy is OWS but you also get to relive shooting a man in his bed while he's unarmed, what crowd are you going for here?

Posted by Gerhabio

All that HONOR, all that SACRIFICE

Posted by Supercancer

I still have my copy of Fugitive Hunter with me. Game seemed pretty fun when I was like... 10.

Posted by Elazul

Huh, I was wondering why that video was uploaded to the GB YouTube account. Nice job, Alex.

Posted by Nethlem

This is so morbid..

We get all kinds of offended when angry mobs of brown people celebrate killing western soldiers, but at the same time we have no problem making whole video games and movies around the execution of brown people and one of their "leaders".

No hate for the US and no hate for the middle east, it just feels like i'm living in the twilight zone when reading stuff like this. Warmongering and propaganda stay just that, regardless of how well it's polished, presented or which side presents it.

Posted by NeoZeon

Personally I'm not shocked with it.

Marketers gonna market after all...perhaps badly.

Least it's going to charity I guess.

It is no less shady than shoving recruitment ads in Game Informer, honestly.

Posted by GoofyGoober

Jesus....

Posted by mewarmo990

Meh. Unsurprising.

Why can't EA's marketing can't do anything right with MoH?

Posted by falling_fast

came here to watch that that video after what Ryan said on the podcast. yeah, that was pretty amazing.

Posted by steelknight2000

OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD AND MEDAL OF HONOR IS ALIVE.

Posted by YukoAsho

@mewarmo990 said:

Meh. Unsurprising.

Why can't EA's marketing can't do anything right with MoH?

Just MoH?

Posted by mewarmo990

@YukoAsho said:

@mewarmo990 said:

Meh. Unsurprising.

Why can't EA's marketing can't do anything right with MoH?

Just MoH?

Touche. I was just thinking back to what Patrick said on the podcast, though -- even after multiple marketing screw-ups (DS2, SWTOR), it seems like they haven't learned anything from the way this newest game is being handled.

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