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Posted by Wong_Fei_Hung

@TheSouthernDandy:

I have faith it will happen, what I've seen so far is impressive at Nintendo's end, the video services, the ability to stream your household content, easily, Nintendo TVii and what it offers to your viewing experience, Miiverse integration into software, the ability to video & text chat with consummate ease, and the simple but very important options available, the kind of options that Nintendo have shirked in the past. The ability to chat outside of Miiverse alone suggests to me Nintendo know some adults want that degree of separation, and that gives me a lot of confidence for the other features that will come down the line.

I also have faith, because I know it's not Nintendo that have designed this all :) It's a subsidiary of Asus which Nintendo worked with on 3DS. I know Asus design things with a kind of simplicity that hits the spot (my PC Mobo is designed by them).

Posted by FluxWaveZ

@Wong_Fei_Hung said:

I don't know about you but I find the prospect mind numbingly dull, I don't want my videogame consoles to be turned into these media hubs, I really just want it to be about videogames, and communicating with my friends about games primarily. I certainly don't need Facebook on it or a long list of Sony's films available for free.

I also agree. The only things I need online for are for video games, not the other crap. But Nintendo, to put it simply, sucks when it comes to online and I'll take a wait-and-see approach when it comes to what they do with the Wii U.

Posted by TheSouthernDandy

@Wong_Fei_Hung said:

@TheSouthernDandy: @FluxWaveZ:

FluxWave, I have actually tried out some of it's features in a closed media briefing at EG Expo. Like I say earlier, how is there anything substantial to fear when it's third parties themselves that will be creating online infrastructures, which will no doubt be perfectly tailored to suit individual game franchises?. There can be no complaints there, certainly not complaints that can be directed at Nintendo. The ball is not in Nintendo's park, it's in third parties.

Everything aside from the online modes within games, the stuff Nintendo is responsible for, appears to be truly brilliant and free.

As far as the other services offered by others...I for once think Jim is right. Can you honestly say you think it will pan out differently?

http://www.giantbomb.com/wii-u/60-139/jim-sterling-on-wii-u/35-561683/#79

I don't know about you but I find the prospect mind numbingly dull, I don't want my videogame consoles to be turned into these media hubs, I really just want it to be about videogames, and communicating with my friends about games primarily. I certainly don't need Facebook on it or a long list of Sony's films available for free.

I totally agree, I could care less about Facebook on my console, I care about what the online multiplayer experience is like and what the service offers that's game related (dlc, digital downloaded games, discounts, etc.) The whole issue is that Nintendo has been completely clueless on how to handle those things, if they even attempted any of them. Their online efforts have been a joke to this point. And depending on third parties to prop up the infrastructure isn't a solution, Nintendo has to spearhead those efforts and make sure there are performance standards and users are getting a good experience.

Again, I'm not saying it's impossible for them to make the WiiU a great online console, I'm saying they've done a terrible job in pretty much every aspect of online up to this point and I'm gonna wait till I see the consoles in the wild getting used online before I would say they're the answer to this whole problem.

Edited by Wong_Fei_Hung

@TheSouthernDandy: @FluxWaveZ:

FluxWave, I have actually tried out some of it's features in a closed media briefing at EG Expo. Like I say earlier, how is there anything substantial to fear when it's third parties themselves that will be creating online infrastructures, which will no doubt be perfectly tailored to suit individual game franchises?. There can be no complaints there, certainly not complaints that can be directed at Nintendo. The ball is not in Nintendo's park, it's in third parties.

Everything aside from the online modes within games, the stuff Nintendo is responsible for, appears to be truly brilliant and free.

As far as the other services offered by others...I for once think Jim is right. Can you honestly say you think it will pan out differently?

http://www.giantbomb.com/wii-u/60-139/jim-sterling-on-wii-u/35-561683/#79

I don't know about you but I find the prospect mind numbingly dull, I don't want my videogame consoles to be turned into these media hubs, I really just want it to be about videogames, and communicating with my friends about games primarily. I certainly don't need Facebook on it or a long list of Sony's films available for free.

Posted by Slag

Nice rant OP, well said.

Posted by FluxWaveZ

@Wong_Fei_Hung said:

@Vegetable_Side_Dish said:

XBL has been a bad joke for a while now, PS+ is just embarrassing them further, soon even Nintendo's online might be doing that too

Nintendo Networks lack of annual fees and consistently abusive individuals will make it very attractive to me. I'm happy that any abusers of the system will be rooted out fast and efficiently, that's a positive incentive for me. When I saw Nintendo TVii's features and ease of use, I honestly instantly thought it was better than what LIVE, were charging me for. When you consider Wii U Chat and use Miiverse are entirely free also, I wonder what on earth Microsoft will now offer to justify what they charge currently, because it's increasingly looking like rip off.

These online modes on Wii U will be perfect because they're designed by the developers themselves - there's very little to fear.

Why are you praising Nintendo for an online system you haven't tried yet, especially given their extremely poor history with online?

Posted by TheSouthernDandy

@Wong_Fei_Hung said:

@Vegetable_Side_Dish said:

XBL has been a bad joke for a while now, PS+ is just embarrassing them further, soon even Nintendo's online might be doing that too

Nintendo Networks lack of annual fees and consistently abusive individuals will make it very attractive to me. I'm happy that any abusers of the system will be rooted out fast and efficiently, that's a positive incentive for me. When I saw Nintendo TVii's features and ease of use, I honestly instantly thought it was better than what LIVE, were charging me for. When you consider Wii U Chat and use Miiverse are entirely free also, I wonder what on earth Microsoft will now offer to justify what they charge currently, because it's increasingly looking like rip off.

These online modes on Wii U will be perfect because they're designed by the developers themselves - there's very little to fear.

I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the Nintendo ship as leaders of online services. You're not wrong about Live looking more like a ripoff lately but Nintendo's online offerings up to this point have been...less then stellar. In the same way that a punch in the face is a less then stellar way to spend an evening.

Nintendo could totally knock it out of the park, I think they're FINALLY realizing they need to change how they're approaching online stuff but until they prove it, I wouldn't say they're the best choice by a long shot.

Posted by YoungFrey

@TheHBK said:

Yeah, compared to the deals you get on Steam and PSN+, this seems bad... but from what I read, seems like you were happy with Xbox Live and the games until they started giving you little deals and a FREE set of 20 points for your birthday? What am I missing here? Xbox Live is where my friends are, where cross game chat is that is not on PSN, faster game updates and downloads which mean I will never buy anything over the PSN unless it is free. Yeah, we need to focus our priorities here.

I wonder what happened to us that when someone gives us something, we can say no thanks, but instead say, what the fuck man!!! Give me more!!!

I don't think anybody is particularly mad that Live isn't giving out big birthday presents. It about Microsoft raising expectations, then delivering crud. If a person told you they'd got you a present and brought over a box that contained a quarter, you'd probably be angry and feel jerked around. You can still use a quarter, but it's a terrible present. You'd wish they had done nothing.

Posted by Nightriff

@GenocidalKitten said:

I used to love Xbox live, in 7 years that's changed dramatically, next generation I'm not getting an Xbox I can tell you that for sure.

I feel like next generation Microsoft is going to turn into Sony last generation, over confident, and out of touch.

Feel the same way, hopefully other people aren't afraid to jumpship

Posted by JasonR86

@Ozzie said:

@AlexW00d said:

Giving 20 points for a 'special birthday present' is pretty goddamn insulting yeah. Dear me.

That's really the biggest point I was getting across, seems like others feel like I should be grateful for anything they give me I feel otherwise but if they don't care than that's ok.

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic dude. Hence the 'dear me' bit.

Posted by Ozzie

@Humanity said:

@Ozzie: Just wanted to say my Birthday is also October 18th so high five dood.

Haha high five bro

Posted by Ozzie

@AlexW00d said:

Giving 20 points for a 'special birthday present' is pretty goddamn insulting yeah. Dear me.

That's really the biggest point I was getting across, seems like others feel like I should be grateful for anything they give me I feel otherwise but if they don't care than that's ok.

Posted by TheHBK

Yeah, compared to the deals you get on Steam and PSN+, this seems bad... but from what I read, seems like you were happy with Xbox Live and the games until they started giving you little deals and a FREE set of 20 points for your birthday? What am I missing here? Xbox Live is where my friends are, where cross game chat is that is not on PSN, faster game updates and downloads which mean I will never buy anything over the PSN unless it is free. Yeah, we need to focus our priorities here.

I wonder what happened to us that when someone gives us something, we can say no thanks, but instead say, what the fuck man!!! Give me more!!!

Posted by AlexW00d

Giving 20 points for a 'special birthday present' is pretty goddamn insulting yeah. Dear me.

Posted by AlisterCat

I've gotten almost 2000 free points from Xbox Live Rewards, so it hasn't been bad but 20 points isn't anything to promote or get excited about. Why did they bother?

Posted by Wong_Fei_Hung

@Vegetable_Side_Dish said:

XBL has been a bad joke for a while now, PS+ is just embarrassing them further, soon even Nintendo's online might be doing that too

Nintendo Networks lack of annual fees and consistently abusive individuals will make it very attractive to me. I'm happy that any abusers of the system will be rooted out fast and efficiently, that's a positive incentive for me. When I saw Nintendo TVii's features and ease of use, I honestly instantly thought it was better than what LIVE, were charging me for. When you consider Wii U Chat and use Miiverse are entirely free also, I wonder what on earth Microsoft will now offer to justify what they charge currently, because it's increasingly looking like rip off.

These online modes on Wii U will be perfect because they're designed by the developers themselves - there's very little to fear.

Edited by Rafaelfc

People really love getting free stuff, for a few free games people are calling an overall inferior service as something that puts microsoft's service to shame.

In my experience PSN is very unreliable, slow and disconnects for no reason a lot. If you pay for Plus you get no improvements in that whatsoever, but hey, here are some free games that will take you forever to download. If they get their shit together and provide a service that is comparable to Live i'd gladly never pay Microsoft again, but it just isn't happening yet (at least for me, user mileage may vary)

I am not happy paying for online, but as far as console online gaming goes, Live still is the best for me, despite the lack of good discounts and rewards.

What I think Sony is making a killing at is putting new releases (and good desireable releases at that) day one for you to purchase online. It's full price, but the idea of clicking a bunch of buttons and getting a game released that day on your console is totally awesome.

Posted by Tylea002

The rewards program is poorly conceived. A clear example that something is not always better than nothing.

Edited by Vegetable_Side_Dish

XBL has been a bad joke for a while now, PS+ is just embarrassing them further, soon even Nintendo's online might be doing that too

Posted by Scrawnto

I just want to say that I find it interesting that giving someone 25 cents can actually offend or anger that person. I can't help but picture someone throwing the quarter back at their Xbox shouting, "I don't need your charity! Fuck you!"

Posted by Subbeh

@WinterSnowblind said:

At the start of this generation I was almost purely an Xbox user. The way they've handled Xbox Live made me adjust my priorities, to the point where the Xbox has become my least played platform.

I can only assume they're going to wait for their next system before retuning all their online services, because if they plan on continuing as they are, I think they're going to have some problems. There's no point in paying to play games online, when you could be doing it for free on 3 other systems and I can't believe the majority of people out there will continue to do so. The fact Xbox Live was so much better than PSN when it first launched is the only reason it still has any perceived value.

I feel the same way, was in from beta on the first xbox but now if a game is out on multiple formats I'll always take the PC or PS3 version over the 360.

When most of the games I played seemed to be hosted peer to peer, the download speeds weren't exactly great and the whole thing was plastered with ads I just really didn't understand what it was I was paying for anymore.

This reward scheme seems like an absolute joke as well, I don't expect to get a bunch of stuff for free but when your most direct competitor offers a far superior service in PSN+ for similar money then this reward scheme just seems like too little too late for me.

Posted by Snail

Paying to pay online, in this day and age, sounds just unbelievable.

Posted by Wong_Fei_Hung

20 Points! LOL

Nintendo Network is free and awesome, hopefully it will show the others how it should be done.

Edited by JasonR86

@Terramagi said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Ozzie said:

@JasonR86: Didn't earn those free playstation games either but they got them, didn't earn those steam sale but I got those. Nothing to do with earning something has to do with smart business. Sorry if you feel otherwise

The point is not to look a gift horse in the mouth.

You really need to re-evaluate things if you think Microsoft is doing you a favor by charging you 60 dollars for advertisements.

They don't owe you anything? You don't owe THEM anything. They come TO YOU. This isn't a fucking monopoly.

This was a discussion about the rewards program and not xbox live as a whole. I feel like these are two very separate discussions. The rewards program, to me, equates to given gifts for behaviors most of us were going to do anyway. It is as simple as that. For example, I got 200 points to renewing my year long live service. I was going to do that anyway whether I got those points or not. In fact I didn't even know I was going to be given any points at all. So that extra 200 points was just a nice bonus for something I was going to already do. So getting mad about such a program seems crazy to me. They are giving you something for doing what you always do anyway. Just accept it.

Now if we wanted to talk about Xbox Live as a whole then, yes, it is a total rip off. But it is a rip off millions of people live with year after year. I live with it year after year. So why would Microsoft do anything different? We can bitch here all we want but Microsoft, like every other business on the planet, recognizes one thing; revenue. So as long as millions continue to have Gold memberships nothing will change. In fact, the rewards program is a complete surprise to me because, from a business sense, Microsoft doesn't need that rewards program to keep revenue high.

So I dislike a lot about Live. But I also continue to have a Gold membership regardless so I have no room to bitch because my actions direct contradict my words. As for the rewards program, it continues to be a nice bonus for what I was going to do anyway.

Posted by Humanity

@Ozzie: Just wanted to say my Birthday is also October 18th so high five dood.

Posted by WinterSnowblind

At the start of this generation I was almost purely an Xbox user. The way they've handled Xbox Live made me adjust my priorities, to the point where the Xbox has become my least played platform.

I can only assume they're going to wait for their next system before retuning all their online services, because if they plan on continuing as they are, I think they're going to have some problems. There's no point in paying to play games online, when you could be doing it for free on 3 other systems and I can't believe the majority of people out there will continue to do so. The fact Xbox Live was so much better than PSN when it first launched is the only reason it still has any perceived value.

Posted by Terramagi

@JasonR86 said:

@Ozzie said:

@JasonR86: Didn't earn those free playstation games either but they got them, didn't earn those steam sale but I got those. Nothing to do with earning something has to do with smart business. Sorry if you feel otherwise

The point is not to look a gift horse in the mouth.

You really need to re-evaluate things if you think Microsoft is doing you a favor by charging you 60 dollars for advertisements.

They don't owe you anything? You don't owe THEM anything. They come TO YOU. This isn't a fucking monopoly.

Edited by avantegardener

Yeah, I pretty much came to this conclusion a while back, I rarely re-up to Gold (I was a dyed-in-wool yearly supporter) anymore, unless there is something multiplayer I really want to play. Just thinking about that sentence 'paying for multiplayer' is like waking up from a dream. Like everyone, I have less and less disposable income so I really had to address what I was actually spending money on. Recently I thought I'd see what all the PS+ fuss was all about with one of their short term subs. I was sceptical when it 1st launched, but I have to say that now it is definitely an excellent value proposition, free games for a subscription, seems so damn simple, although there is that much downloading to be done, I could do with a bigger hard drive. I would have to figure that Microsoft are taking notes. That said, it's taken the PS3 till now to get their system and service plan right, just as its next generation dawns. Also don’t know if you know, PCs are preeetty cool.

P.S It was my birthday yesterday, just saw my own 20pts.

Posted by TopSteer

@FluxWaveZ: My bad then, it sounded like you thought it was PS+ exclusive.

Posted by FluxWaveZ

@TopSteer said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

This month, spending $100 on PSN will net you a $20 rebate, so that in combination with those deals can be quite nice.

To be fair, that deal is available to everybody, not just PS+ users.

I was mentioning it in conjunction with the pre-order deal only available to PS+ members.

Posted by TopSteer

@FluxWaveZ said:

This month, spending $100 on PSN will net you a $20 rebate, so that in combination with those deals can be quite nice.

To be fair, that deal is available to everybody, not just PS+ users.

Posted by c0l0nelp0c0rn1

It would almost be better if they came to your house to throw pennies at you.

Posted by Village_Guy

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Turtlebird95 said:

360 doesn't need autopatching considering most updates are less than 10 MB. Unlike the PS3 where you have to download 10 fucking updates just to play Uncharted 2.

That doesn't change the fact that the 360 often has game patches as well, patches that you need to wait for while they download in order to update a game.

Right, but I have never seen an update take more than 5 seconds to download, whereas the the PS3 patches takes much longer.

For some reason the download speed on the PS3 always seems slower than the 360, and unfortunately in my experience I have had more lag problems online on the PS3 than the 360 too.

Posted by FluxWaveZ

@Turtlebird95 said:

360 doesn't need autopatching considering most updates are less than 10 MB. Unlike the PS3 where you have to download 10 fucking updates just to play Uncharted 2.

That doesn't change the fact that the 360 often has game patches as well, patches that you need to wait for while they download in order to update a game.

Posted by Nightriff

You can get a cup of Joe for the quarter, or put it in the bank to start saving for you retirement. Now go on you little scrap - Grandpa MS

Posted by Turtlebird95
@FluxWaveZ said:

@laserbolts said:

What else do you get from the service besides old games and a new one every blue moon?

There are several discounts. There are several deals where pre-ordering an upcoming big title will save you $6, as mentioned in the OP. This month, spending $100 on PSN will net you a $20 rebate, so that in combination with those deals can be quite nice. There's automatic game patching when your system is turned off, something I don't believe the 360 has.


360 doesn't need autopatching considering most updates are less than 10 MB. Unlike the PS3 where you have to download 10 fucking updates just to play Uncharted 2.
Posted by NickL

@Portis said:

I don't mean to sound like a jerk here, and while 20 points is pretty insignificant they don't owe you anything aside from the features the service provides.

While you are technically right, MS also didn't have to call an amount of change I can find on the ground every day a "special birthday reward"

Edited by BraveToaster

I don't care if I don't get free stuff, but I've already given up on Xbox Live. I'm not going to pay an extra $60.00 just to play a few games online. I could get a few decent games on Steam with that much money.

Posted by _Chad

There no point in complaining. It's pretty shitty. It's still more than they were giving out before.

Edited by FluxWaveZ

@laserbolts said:

Also not sure what me having a PS3 would have to do with the value of each service.

Because I'd trust your opinion more on the matter if you actually had experience with both paid subscriptions rather than judging it on the sidelines.

@laserbolts said:

What else do you get from the service besides old games and a new one every blue moon?

There are several discounts. There are several deals where pre-ordering an upcoming big title will save you $6, as mentioned in the OP. This month, spending $100 on PSN will net you a $20 rebate, so that in combination with those deals can be quite nice. There's automatic game patching when your system is turned off, something I don't believe the 360 has.

Also, I don't always buy every game out there, so getting Just Cause 2, Bloodrayne: Betrayal, Pac-Man CE DX, Trine 2, Renegade Ops and more—games I wouldn't have owned otherwise—is a big deal for me.

Posted by mrpandaman

I've been waiting for MS to incorporate Gamerscore into some meaning rewards program, because when I had a 360 that is what I thought the Gamerscore was initially going to be. Maybe, hopefully this rewards will be better down the line. MS doesn't have to give anything to its users and XBL members, but they should. You give something to your users, that builds loyalty to the service, to the brand.

Look at Steam, they constantly offer discounts to all users and people love them for that. Sony offers free games and reasonable discounts as long as you are subscribed to their service and people are really responding well to that.

Edited by laserbolts

You get more with PS+ but I buy games quite often so the "free" ones are already in my collection. What else do you get from the service besides old games and a new one every blue moon? Maybe I should have been more specific in saying that they are both ripoffs but gold is more of a ripoff. Also not sure what me having a PS3 would have to do with the value of each service.

Posted by JasonR86

@Ozzie said:

@JasonR86: Didn't earn those free playstation games either but they got them, didn't earn those steam sale but I got those. Nothing to do with earning something has to do with smart business. Sorry if you feel otherwise

The point is not to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Edited by FluxWaveZ

@laserbolts: I don't know... It just seems a bit weird to put PS+ in the same league as XBL Gold in terms of a ripoff, especially since you don't need to pay at all to play online on the former and when demos aren't behind a paywall, either. Free games with the service > not free games, I would think.

Edited by laserbolts

I would reply proper but on my phone yes fluxwaves I have a old fat launch ps3. Why do you ask?

Posted by FluxWaveZ

@laserbolts: Do you even own a PS3?

Posted by laserbolts

To me PS+ and Xbox gold are both total ripoffs but I have friends that like to play online so I pay 60 bucks a year for gold. It isn't really a huge amount for me so it doesn't bother me as much.

Posted by Ozzie

@JasonR86: Didn't earn those free playstation games either but they got them, didn't earn those steam sale but I got those. Nothing to do with earning something has to do with smart business. Sorry if you feel otherwise

Posted by Ozzie

@Portis said:

I don't mean to sound like a jerk here, and while 20 points is pretty insignificant they don't owe you anything aside from the features the service provides.

If you have 2 stores near your house, both offer the same food, same price but 1 has coupons you can use by shopping their and the other doesn't, which one are you going to use? Are you owed this service, No but does that mean your going to shop at the one where you save no money because they don't owe you anything? Most people would go with other store and if that other one doesn't step it up they lose business

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