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Posted by echronorian

Damn, id...what happened to ya.

Posted by BlazeHedgehog
@bvilleneuve said:

@BlazeHedgehog said:

Translation: "We don't want people telling their friends to buy the cheaper, original Doom 3 when they should be spending $30 on BFG. Once BFG has launched and settled, we'll put the original back up."

It's actually really interesting that you say that. I thought that was the case as well, but Doom 3 was $19.99 and Resurrection of Evil was $9.99. So BFG Edition wasn't appreciably more expensive than the originals, for what content you get. In fact, you get the Lost Mission or whatever, so BFG Edition actually saved you money.

EDIT: Actually, it includes Doom 1 ($9.99) and Doom 2 ($9.99) as well, so it saves you a significant amount of money.

Could also be sales logistics - they want BFG Edition to sell regardless of what the old game was priced at. With this being suggested as the setup to Doom 4, maybe this selling well will mean bigger budget for that? I dunno.
Edited by KevinK

@echronorian said:

Damn, id...what happened to ya.

They got bought by Bethesda who is owned by ZeniMax who thinks they're Activision Jr.

Anyway, I love Doom 3 and I love HD rereleases and crap like this but this BFG Edition looks like a stinker.

Edited by Sooty

@FMinus said:

@Sooty said:

@heatDrive88 said:

It's weird that they took it off in the first place, but I get the business decision behind that. What I don't understand at all is how the BFG Edition got so royally messed up, causing such a splinter.

It really doesn't make sense how poorly the BFG Edition was remastered. I'd hate to say it, but I wonder if the poor reception influenced them to revert the decision to still sell vanilla Doom 3 or not.

Well it's id, they are a shadow of their former self anyway so I don't really get surprised by anything anymore.

Aside from the Zenimax buyout and probably them dealing with distribution now (deciding to take Doom 3 off in favour of Doom 3 BFG) and the idiotic decision to let Raven handle Quake 4, they are still pretty much the same old id software they ever were.

They should just come up with another proper Quake multiplayer game and everyone will love them again. Doom is an intermezzo for everyone anyway, but Quake is where it's at.

I dunno if I'd say they are the same old id software, they haven't made a good game since Quake III, they fucked up RAGE on PC (ATI nightmare, other issues some had) and now they can't even get Doom 3 running properly. (or at least 1:1 with the old version)

I'm not sure why people still think id are some good developer, Doom, Doom II and Quake III were a long time ago. John Carmack's most interesting project by far is the Oculus Rift, otherwise I don't quite get why people care too much about what he thinks these days. Still amazes me how consistent Valve have been, for so long too. And they haven't fucked up PC versions of their games.

Posted by StrikeALight

The BFG edition makes the original look like a masterpiece. What's the point in adding motion blur, if everything else is scaled back?

Edited by Eyz

..or grab it for ~5$, brand new and still sealed on ebay.

@OAJ said:

I just want Doom 64 on XBLA or something (They could call it Doom 64x3.625).

Do like I did, download the perfectly running port of the game for pc. Just google "doom 64 ex" a minute, you'll find all you need.

Posted by bvilleneuve

@Smokey_Earhole said:

@bvilleneuve

I loaded up my original copy of DOOM 3 on Steam today, to see how fertile it might be as a basis for a literary theory paper I'll be writing for a class over the next couple months. Fun stuff!

literary theory in the context of DOOM 3 wait what?

I don't have anything concrete yet, but for the class we're looking at a bunch of different types of theory, including sound theory. The guy who wrote the sound theory book we're looking at, named Joshua LaBelle, writes analyses of sound in several different environments, including in the underground, in the home, on the sidewalk, etc. My prospective topic will be to look at which of those areas Doom 3 presents itself as, and then which it actually most resembles. I'm suspecting that it will present the facade of itself as an underground (dangerous, unknown, babbling inhabitants; lingering insanity in the form of ambient noises), but then actually most resemble a sidewalk (sound being used to corral the player, all seeming to interact just for him or her). It should be pretty fun to write, but I'm still playing through that Doom 3 to make sure there's really something there.

Posted by TheUnsavedHero

@m2cks said:

Good thing I already have it...ON THE XBOX.

Holy Shit. I thought I was the only one who had it on that platform.

Posted by EvilNiGHTS

@Ohvee said:

@EvilNiGHTS said:

@CakeBomb said:

Take the old version off. Let the new one sell for a while. Put the old version back on.

So the BFG edition is basically New Coke?

I find it amusing that the company line for id is that they're looking into their options as if none of this was up to them...

It probably isn't up to them anymore, being owned by Bethesda and all.

I considered that, but at same time I doubt Bethesda/Zenimax put a gun to their head and made them work on this one...

Posted by Dixperiken

Am I the only one who watched the video of the Doom 3 mod and thought that depth of field is completely insane. It's like he's really badly short sighted all of a sudden. Or super drunk. Probably drunk.

Rest of the mod looks like it updates the game really well. In my opinion though the depth of field negates all of that.

Edited by MikeFightNight

@TheUnsavedHero said:

@m2cks said:

Good thing I already have it...ON THE XBOX.

Holy Shit. I thought I was the only one who had it on that platform.

I am also in the Doom 3 xbox camp! I remember buying an xbox after seeing The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay at a friend's and being totally jaw dropped at how good it looked. Then Doom 3 came out and again, I was simply amazed at how it looked and it's atmosphere. I remember waiting until night to bust it out and play with the stereo blazed. At the time I would compare Doom 3 to how I felt when first seeing Battlefield 3, maybe even more amazing then that at the time. I am now more into PC gaming then anything and decided to see if I could re-live the magic of Doom 3 on the PC... I cannot go back. It can never live up to the image I had of it when I initially played it all those years ago.. Not even with mods can I enjoy it, it's just not the Doom 3 I remember. But it will live on forever in my memory as a great game!

In fact this thought process has made me wonder about games we have today and how we will back on them. Games with 2d sprites that are highly stylized can hold up forever, Mario and the like. But 3-d games, not so much. Will Battlefield 3 look as archaic to me in the future when Doom 7 comes out? Or will my brains have already been eaten by zombies by then?

Posted by FMinus

@Sooty said:

@FMinus said:

@Sooty said:

@heatDrive88 said:

It's weird that they took it off in the first place, but I get the business decision behind that. What I don't understand at all is how the BFG Edition got so royally messed up, causing such a splinter.

It really doesn't make sense how poorly the BFG Edition was remastered. I'd hate to say it, but I wonder if the poor reception influenced them to revert the decision to still sell vanilla Doom 3 or not.

Well it's id, they are a shadow of their former self anyway so I don't really get surprised by anything anymore.

Aside from the Zenimax buyout and probably them dealing with distribution now (deciding to take Doom 3 off in favour of Doom 3 BFG) and the idiotic decision to let Raven handle Quake 4, they are still pretty much the same old id software they ever were.

They should just come up with another proper Quake multiplayer game and everyone will love them again. Doom is an intermezzo for everyone anyway, but Quake is where it's at.

I dunno if I'd say they are the same old id software, they haven't made a good game since Quake III, they fucked up RAGE on PC (ATI nightmare, other issues some had) and now they can't even get Doom 3 running properly. (or at least 1:1 with the old version)

I'm not sure why people still think id are some good developer, Doom, Doom II and Quake III were a long time ago. John Carmack's most interesting project by far is the Oculus Rift, otherwise I don't quite get why people care too much about what he thinks these days. Still amazes me how consistent Valve have been, for so long too. And they haven't fucked up PC versions of their games.

Rage wasn't a success, but it wasn't such a mega disaster. I'm not even looking to the AMD driver issues (cause that can happen when you're pushing the tech or even normaly), but yeah it wasn't the best game. That's because they wanted to do something new and that wasn't really it. People expect non-stop shooting in id software games, not to chit-chat with NPCs and collect items for quests.

It's pretty much the same with Epic, they abandoned the PC platform with most of their games, and what little comes to the PC is consolised to a point where you think "Why the Fuck is this even on the PC", the last UT game comes to mind. id Software is in the same boat now, they want to make as much profit as they can, thus their main developing platform is the console, leaving PC in the dust -> Rage & Doom 3 BFG is the result. But I have high hopes that Doom 4 or Quake 5 will be more open on the PC at least when it comes to settings, but also probably modding.

As for Valve, they probably have the luxury to release a new game for the Atari crowd and make a profit, since the cash just keeps flowing in through Steam. They are pretty much able to do what they want without any publisher or parent company having to greenlight anything, and they can take their sweet time with developing new games, like id software once could.

Posted by heatDrive88

@FMinus sad:

Rage wasn't a success, but it wasn't such a mega disaster. I'm not even looking to the AMD driver issues (cause that can happen when you're pushing the tech or even normaly), but yeah it wasn't the best game. That's because they wanted to do something new and that wasn't really it. People expect non-stop shooting in id software games, not to chit-chat with NPCs and collect items for quests.

I actually really liked Rage, up until the 2nd act of the game when you went to the new area. It was constantly throwing fun new weapons and new mechanics at you up until that 2nd act, but then it just became incredibly flat and repetitive afterwards.

If I was to solely base my opinion of Rage on the first half of the game, it might even have made my top list for that year.

Posted by Yorkin

I'm surprised Carmack hasn't said anything publicly about how poorly the BFG Edition turned out. He's known for being a programming genius, and this is the sloppiest thing that he's ever been associated with as far as I know.

I mean, a lot of people hated Rage and the original Doom 3, but there was no argument against them being technically sound.

Posted by super2j

it feels good to have a concern ans then have it solved. I thought i would be the only one interested in OG doom 3, after "the shadows are amazing" kind of lines Brad said.

Edited by CircleNine

It'll probably get packed in as a bonus with BFG Edition so they're still able to say that BFG Edition is selling. You know, for all of the people who still never got Doom 3. Like for maybe all 30 of them who actually want it and don't already have it.

And most of those people probably won't know the differences in the versions aside that one of them is supposed to look better out of the box.

Posted by Palaeomerus

@EvilNiGHTS said:

@CakeBomb said:

Take the old version off. Let the new one sell for a while. Put the old version back on.

So the BFG edition is basically New Coke?

I find it amusing that the company line for id is that they're looking into their options as if none of this was up to them...

Old person detected! Greetings ancient one. Make sure you drink plenty of fluids and stay out of the sun. Don't push yourself too hard!

Posted by owlmassive

Seems like I.D are screwing customers on Doom like they did with Rage...

Posted by FMinus

@Yorkin said:

I'm surprised Carmack hasn't said anything publicly about how poorly the BFG Edition turned out. He's known for being a programming genius, and this is the sloppiest thing that he's ever been associated with as far as I know.

I mean, a lot of people hated Rage and the original Doom 3, but there was no argument against them being technically sound.

Doom 3 was a fine single player experience, the multiplayer on the other hand was bad. The whole Quake 3 community was expecting another stellar multiplayer experience even tho id software said that they ain't gonna focus on that. People just ignored what they said, and expected another top of the line fast paced arcade shooter to be used in competitions like Quake or Counter-Strike were before in the likes of CPL, ESWC and the likes. It's wasn't that, you could play couple of matches for fun, but it wasn't polished or competitive and it ran like shit with all the previous physics people learned to love since Quake 1 thrown out in favor of light and shadows.

Quake 4 was a lot better in that regard, where the single player was OK in my book and the multiplayer was a lot better, especially with mod support (competitive mods, I think it was called Q4 Max and similar) and it even could be dumbed down graphically to look almost like Quake 3.

Rage hadn't had anything of the above and was mediocre at best.

I think even tho, id sells a lot more games based on singleplayer experience, the thing they are most notably remembered for is the stellar and awesome multiplayer experiences they delivered with the Quake games. That said, they were the godfathers of competitive multiplayer in a full 3D environment FPS and times have changed, they have a lot more competition nowdays, but I still believe that they can ship great products, even tho Rage wasn't all that, maybe Doom 4 will be awesome, but I'm holding my breath until Quake 5.

@heatDrive88 said:

@FMinus sad:

Rage wasn't a success, but it wasn't such a mega disaster. I'm not even looking to the AMD driver issues (cause that can happen when you're pushing the tech or even normaly), but yeah it wasn't the best game. That's because they wanted to do something new and that wasn't really it. People expect non-stop shooting in id software games, not to chit-chat with NPCs and collect items for quests.

I actually really liked Rage, up until the 2nd act of the game when you went to the new area. It was constantly throwing fun new weapons and new mechanics at you up until that 2nd act, but then it just became incredibly flat and repetitive afterwards.

If I was to solely base my opinion of Rage on the first half of the game, it might even have made my top list for that year.

Well it is a game people should play, it's a good game, but nothing amazing in my book, certainly better as a lot of games that came out at the same time, the shooting was nice typical id standard (best part) everything else was just an experiment - that didn't work quite for me.

Posted by owlmassive

Sorry i mean in reguards to dlc for rage, after the shambles of the little story it had, i think their has been mere mention of dlc for it. Now its been just over the a year and like myself people are wishing and hoping their might be a decent addon to it and not just sewer missions...

After this past year with on disc content certain endings to games day 1 dlc and day 1 patches....You would think that the developers would completley go thru play testing to sort the kind of problems people are having and had I.E the amd issue hard resets clipping bugs so on and so forth resolved.

Posted by peritus

This to me sounds like they will fix it once they are satisfied with the sales on bfg edition.

Then maybe sell some more original doom 3 after that.

Posted by heatDrive88

@FMinus: I'm just going to say it.

It might a crass comparison, but Rage was pretty much a better version Borderlands.

Posted by SystemActive

What is ID doing? They should of put in a COOP option on the BFG version and I would of bought it... There's a mod that does this and also graphics fixes..

Edited by Hef

@heatDrive88: I see almost 0 comparisons between the two games aside from they're fps where you can also drive cars. And you get quests. They are in almost no way the same.

Posted by EvilNiGHTS

@Palaeomerus said:

@EvilNiGHTS said:

@CakeBomb said:

Take the old version off. Let the new one sell for a while. Put the old version back on.

So the BFG edition is basically New Coke?

I find it amusing that the company line for id is that they're looking into their options as if none of this was up to them...

Old person detected! Greetings ancient one. Make sure you drink plenty of fluids and stay out of the sun. Don't push yourself too hard!

Actually I got that reference from Futurama. Which is just as damning at this point.

Posted by EvilNiGHTS

@heatDrive88 said:

@FMinus: I'm just going to say it.

It might a crass comparison, but Rage was pretty much a better version Borderlands.

I had a friend once try to sell me on Rage by describing it as "a serious Borderlands". Suffice to say, it wasn't an effective pitch.

Posted by heatDrive88

@EvilNiGHTS: @Hef: Well, if I'm wrong, can you tell me how are Rage and Borderlands any different? Having played both games, I really can only come up with this shortlist of differences:

  • Humor/tone
  • RPG mechanics (granted, this involves class systems, character statistics, skill trees, and loot systems)

That's pretty much it, and I don't think I can be accused of harshly dissolving these games down to their bare minimum yet.

Posted by djhicks1

The depth of field seems poorly done in that video. I reality, when I look at a wall in the distance, it isn't blurry. However, everything I'm not focusing on is blurry.

Edited by Hef

@heatDrive88: Rage is a glorified corridor shooter with a set amount of traditional weapons, car combat and very light crafting mechanics. Borderlands is a loot based, action rpg with skill trees with stupid amounts of weapons and a slight amount of driving. They're both FPS' with a similar-ish graphics style. That is it. I would sooner compare borderlands to diablo than Rage.

Posted by Pudge

What a clusterfuck this game has turned out to be. I bought the game on Steam and the only way I can load it up is to edit the launch options to force it to launch in a window. Any attempt to play it on fullscreen just makes the game explode.

At least it was only $20 since I have the original game as well, but I really hope they release some patches soon and make the game actually functional.

Posted by geirr

@EvilNiGHTS said:

@heatDrive88 said:

@FMinus: I'm just going to say it.

It might a crass comparison, but Rage was pretty much a better version Borderlands.

I had a friend once try to sell me on Rage by describing it as "a serious Borderlands". Suffice to say, it wasn't an effective pitch.

Why that's like calling GTA 3 a serious version of Mario 64. Not an effective pitch at all!

Posted by heatDrive88

@Hef: I don't think "stupid amounts of weapons" qualifies when you're still firing a pistol, a machine gun, a rocket launcher, and a shotgun in Borderlands, and those "stupid amounts" of differences only vary on basic statistical properties.

Okay sure, there's shotguns that fire rocket launchers. It's still a shotgun. Or a rocket launcher.

Posted by Danterion

What the hell is vanilla Doom 3?

Something that's not explained anywhere in the article.

Edited by Hef

@heatDrive88: Man, the combat is so different in the two games you must be trolling at this point. There are way more differences in the guns than mini-gun snipers or grenade launching assault rifles. Which in themselves is STILL a marked difference over standard slow shotgun. Standard AK looking assault rifle. Standard slow firing semi auto sniper.

Rage and borderlands play completely differently. Not comparable.

Edited by heatDrive88

@Hef: You circle strafe and run backwards to avoid the enemy while shooting, attempting to get headshots, and once in awhile pop a grenade and a special ability?

To say they aren't comparable is ludicrous. I never said they were EXACTLY the same either, for what it's worth. All I said was that the similarities are high, and as far as I can tell you've nuanced out Borderlands far more than what anyone should perceive it to be. Corridors or not, Borderlands is a pretty linear game that just so happens to sit inside an open-world.

Posted by Hef

@heatDrive88: All sports are basically the same. You kick or hit a ball around until it goes in the goal. Why people even both making different sports is beyond me.

Posted by Naeberius

@Danterion said:

What the hell is vanilla Doom 3?

Something that's not explained anywhere in the article.

It's the original DOOM 3 from 2004, rather than the new DOOM 3 : BFG EDITION.

Posted by Danterion

@Naeberius: Why didn't he write ORIGINAL DOOM 3 then?

I'm not American, so I have no idea what flavors associated to games mean.

Posted by jmic75

....you know maybe if it was half a decade ago someone might care about being able to buy Doom 3.

Posted by jasondesante

im 100% serious, when is John Carmack going to quit iD and go work somewhere that he can actually have a genuine impact like Epic or Valve......iD WAS amazing but right now, omfg they are draining his precious life and time keeping him there being the only positive thing that company still has going for them. I don't understand why Carmack's current engine isn't being as used as Unreal 3, and thats because Carmack needs to work at Epic!

Posted by believer258

@Danterion said:

@Naeberius: Why didn't he write ORIGINAL DOOM 3 then?

I'm not American, so I have no idea what flavors associated to games mean.

"Vanilla" means "base, unmodded game". I don't think it's an American only thing either, I thought it was just a buzzword for a program that hasn't been altered from its factory state. It's still kind of a misuse here, but not horribly since all Doom 3 BFG does is ups the lighting and adds a flashlight.

Posted by fearthereaperdotca

How about just add the option to have alternate weapon flashlight in BFG Edition? - that change is the only reason I haven't bought the game yet

Edited by Sumpfie

I'm just saying, but you can get used Doom 3 copies for little more than what a more expensive drink costs on Amazon et al...

Not sure why Steam is so critically important.

Posted by dadosimpson

Cool old game!!

Posted by sMOoie1

haha vanilla ice--cream;) ;o ;p