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Posted by Yummylee

@JackSukeru said:

Anyhow one of the metrics I use to decide if a game is poor or not is if I, at any time whilst playing it, fell through the geometry in a way I wasn't supposed to. This happened in my second playthrough of DMC2 and it's probably my favorite thing I took away from the experience.

There's this part where you're given 2 or 3 minutes do defeat a bunch of enemies in order to remove a barrier blocking a hole in the ground that you are supposed to jump through to finish the mission. After barely failing a few times I was getting frustrated. I started the timer again but this time, about 30 seconds in, as I did a drop attack on an enemy I clipped through the floor. The game didn't stop, the timer didn't stop, I was just able to walk around on some unknown space a few meters below the actual floor. After sighing and thinking that I would have to reset the game and restart the entire mission I suddenly had an idea. I walked beneath the floor to where the barrier blocking the hole was, the barrier formed a circle around the hole but didn't seem to reach beneath the floor where I was. So I moved beneath where the hole was and double jumped..

Mission complete.

...

#gamedesign

@spankingaddict said:

It's not as bad as it seems . It's OK .

No, I'd say it's just as bad as people have always made to believe.

@Quarters: It was an observation on how you tend to enjoy a great deal of games that I consider to be flaming turds. I've actually found it to be sort of novel in how consistent your taste has clashed with my own.

@Sauson said:

I have DMC, DMC2, and DMC3 for the PS2 and I was going to play them back to back because I had them for years but never finished them but the whole idea came to a screeching halt when I got half through playing Dante's story. Holy shit dude, not only is it just completely bland and boring but it's riddled with bad game design. I should probably get around to playing DMC3...

That you should! The stark drop in quality between the first two games makes an equally sobering rise with the jump to DMC3. Still highly regarded as the best of the bunch and with good reason.

@DantronLesotho said:

I was unemployed for 7 months a couple years ago and I STILL couldn't play all the way through DMC 2 because it was THAT boring.

Simply daydreaming about playing DMC3 would be more engaging than playing DMC2 no doubt :P

Posted by DantronLesotho

I was unemployed for 7 months a couple years ago and I STILL couldn't play all the way through DMC 2 because it was THAT boring.

Posted by Sauson

I have DMC, DMC2, and DMC3 for the PS2 and I was going to play them back to back because I had them for years but never finished them but the whole idea came to a screeching halt when I got half through playing Dante's story. Holy shit dude, not only is it just completely bland and boring but it's riddled with bad game design. I should probably get around to playing DMC3...

Posted by Undeadpool

@Vonocourt said:

I've never traded in a game before because I like to collect them. DMC2 was the first and only game I ever bought and gave away.

Same. Here. This was the FIRST (and last) game I ever sold back. I could not have been MORE disappointed.

Edited by Quarters

@Yummylee said:

@Quarters said:

I like DMC2 better than the first game.

*drops mic and walks away*

Given your general taste in games, and because I recall you admitting that you like these sorts of games just so you can hack and slash stuff, I'm not wholly surprised.

Lol, can't tell if that was an insult or a keen observation, but it doesn't bother me regardless. :) It's true, I just like seeing the story, the feel of the gameplay, and just the overall experience. I don't need it to be difficult. Heck, I play DMC1 on Easy Auto. I know that's nigh blasphemous, but that's just how I enjoy games nowadays. When I was a kid, I loved playing hard crap, but it just doesn't do it for me anymore.

Actually, part of the reason I prefer it is because I really like the improved sword and general animations and increased locomotive stuff(like running up walls without having to switch to a specific style, which I feel was a huge faus pax on DMC3). Also, I like city based stuff much more than a castle setting. Plus, no "fill your dark soul with light" moments. At least DMC2 Dante is in character with the anime version of him, where he's just on normal jobs and isn't really excited. DMC1 Dante is just too melodramatic about everything. I swear, for the people who were calling DmC Dante emo, he doesn't have anything on DMC1 Dante.

Edited by spankingaddict

It's not as bad as it seems . It's OK .

Posted by JackSukeru

I actually played through this game more than once, despite thinking it was terrible. I think I started playing it again to get myself in the mood for DMC3 when it was about to come out, which I admit is a very weird idea and I'm pretty sure I even knew that at the time. I was doing the secret missions to see how many lifebars I could get and I wasn't exactly done with that when DMC 3 came out.

Never touched the game again.

Anyhow one of the metrics I use to decide if a game is poor or not is if I, at any time whilst playing it, fell through the geometry in a way I wasn't supposed to. This happened in my second playthrough of DMC2 and it's probably my favorite thing I took away from the experience.

There's this part where you're given 2 or 3 minutes do defeat a bunch of enemies in order to remove a barrier blocking a hole in the ground that you are supposed to jump through to finish the mission. After barely failing a few times I was getting frustrated. I started the timer again but this time, about 30 seconds in, as I did a drop attack on an enemy I clipped through the floor. The game didn't stop, the timer didn't stop, I was just able to walk around on some unknown space a few meters below the actual floor. After sighing and thinking that I would have to reset the game and restart the entire mission I suddenly had an idea. I walked beneath the floor to where the barrier blocking the hole was, the barrier formed a circle around the hole but didn't seem to reach beneath the floor where I was. So I moved beneath where the hole was and double jumped..

Mission complete.

Posted by Yummylee

@Quarters said:

I like DMC2 better than the first game.

*drops mic and walks away*

Given your general taste in games, and because I recall you admitting that you like these sorts of games just so you can hack and slash stuff, I'm not wholly surprised.

Posted by Quarters

I like DMC2 better than the first game.

*drops mic and walks away*

Edited by Yummylee

@WeaponBoy said:

AccountingNightmare's Retrospective of DMC2 is pretty much the best recap of why DMC2 was a bad game. Boring, samey, sluggish, and frustrating combat.

It is worth noting that it brought a lot of the things we now think of as stapples of the series, but they were all implemented in a really shoddy manner.

That's true. I think Bloody Palace first originated in DMC2 after all, and that's undoubtedly one of my favourite features across both DMC3 and DMC4.

@TrafalgarLaw said:

It's still better than DmC.

Ohhhhhhhh that's not true and you know it.

Posted by Vonocourt

@ViciousReiven said:

@Yummylee said:

@ViciousReiven: A playable Trish you say? Is she actually her own character or is she just a Dante skin? I notice she has the sword of Sparda 'n all, but is was just a more powerful force edge/rebellion with better reach for its stinger when all is said and done

Her own, the Sparda sword has a different move set and I'm pretty sure all her animations are new, iirc she even has a triple jump, not that it's really worth it to unlock her, grab a gameshark and mess around a bit as a novelty.

I believe her moveset is just lifted from DMC1's Dante.

Posted by TrafalgarLaw

It's still better than DmC.

Posted by Vonocourt

@Yummylee said:

DMC had some crummy underwater sections, too. Fortunately they're not very long. Actually DMC gets really weird nearing the end. There's a part where you're flying through space and it basically turn into a 3D Bullet Hell shooter. Then there's the end boss, which is cribbed right from RE2, where you just gotta keep shooting the now shapeless blob of Mundus as he... slimes toward you. Then finally it ends with some short, super-linear segment where you're flying a plane through the caverns as they collapse -- not entirely unlike the ending to RE4 on the jetski, which is all the more fitting given that this was an RE4 prototype. Yeah, amongst the most obvious mechanics like the camera angles and item hunting, DMC is steeped in the Resident Evil-isms.

Oh man, I do remember that plane mission.

Posted by ViciousReiven
@Yummylee said:  


@ViciousReiven: A playable Trish you say? Is she actually her own character or is she just a Dante skin? I notice she has the sword of Sparda 'n all, but is was just a more powerful force edge/rebellion with better reach for its stinger when all is said and done

 Her own, the Sparda sword has a different move set and I'm pretty sure all her animations are new, iirc she even has a triple jump, not that it's really worth it to unlock her, grab a gameshark and mess around a bit as a novelty.
Posted by RandomInternetUser

@Humanity: It's really cheap on Amazon as of last Thursday. I bought it for like 16 bucks.

Posted by Yummylee

@ArbitraryWater said:

I'm not going to lie, you're making me kinda want to play DMC2 so I can rip it apart. I've already written something about the new game for my next blog (whenever that gets finished, which is whenever I finish Valkyria Chronicles II), and I'm really in the mood to criticize something instead of praise it effortlessly. Overpowered guns you say? hmmmm...

I guess there's definitely some in fun writing up a rant about some shitty product; cathartic almost... Even though I understand that you couldn't get through DMC (?), DMC2 is of course significantly easier and would probably give little headaches in getting through it all. Your brain will have probably formed into a small pile of dust by the end of it all, though.

@ViciousReiven: A playable Trish you say? Is she actually her own character or is she just a Dante skin? I notice she has the sword of Sparda 'n all, but is was just a more powerful force edge/rebellion with better reach for its stinger when all is said and done.

@rebgav said:

@Yummylee said:

@egg said:

@Yummylee said:

For as surprisingly serious as the first one takes itself, it still has some small semblance of personality throughout its aesthetic and the cutscenes,

Is that code for "being totally cheesy and ridiculous" and "cool if you're 12 years old which is how old I was when I first played it"

xD

Don't get me wrong, I don't think anything to do with the writing or the style in DMC is' cool'. It's just that it's at least something. Something is actually happening in these cutscenes; Dante is at least saying some of the dumbest shit imaginable. It's not well written and it's not even all that funny, either. But there's some colour in here. DMC2 by comparison is a blank slate.

Let's not forget that the original DMC came out when videogame scripts were still largely written by programmers and producers, translations were still awful and videogames were employing voice actors from outer space. DMC still works as a game despite the terrible camera but there's no expectation that the production of peripheral elements like story and voice could compare favorably to current standards.

Sure, but... wait, where are you going with this. The point of my post there was just to compare how lifeless DMC2's everything is, and how much of a failure it was in that regard when even its predecessor could muster up some modicum of personality.

Edited by WeaponBoy

AccountingNightmare's Retrospective of DMC2 is pretty much the best recap of why DMC2 was a bad game. Boring, samey, sluggish, and frustrating combat.

It is worth noting that it brought a lot of the things we now think of as stapples of the series, but they were all implemented in a really shoddy manner.

Posted by Demoskinos

@Yummylee: Can't blame you really.

Posted by Humanity

Thanks for the warning about the DMC3 PC port. That was honestly something I was considering as an alternative but I definitely don't want to deal with poor ports. I guess I'll just find the HD collection really cheap used somewhere.

Posted by Carryboy

Please dont hate or judge me but... i kinda liked this game when it came out. Probably doesn't hold up well mind haven't played it since release.

Posted by Sackmanjones
@Yummylee too be honest I have been watching a lot of Star Trek and it gave me a good excuse to use that. But you're right, the general stance of the game has changes and I'm happy about it. I think the game deserves all the praise it has gotten.
Posted by Red12b

yea, DMC2 is godawful

Posted by CornBREDX

Yep. It's bad. No, we (being those of us who remember) weren't lieing when we said it was. 
 
Thankfully the genre was kind of started by DMC, and it was still a pretty cool idea, so DMC2 being bad didn't kill it off entirely. It probably could have though if anyone had noticed. 
It was awhile after it we got DMC3 if I recall. Or maybe not, I dont remember now.

Posted by StarvingGamer

I remember that DMC2 came out back when GameStop did that thing where you could return open games for a full refund within 7 days. I knew a lot of friends who would do this to essentially rent games for free, which I always found to be an unscrupulous but admittedly clever abuse of a system meant to protect consumers/customers. It's your fault we can't have nice things!

But I digress. So I picked up the game after work and tore through it in one sitting and couldn't believe how amazing disappointing it was. And for the one and only time in my life, I took the game back to GameStop and got my money back. When the clerk asked me why I was returning it, I told him because was really bad.

Edited by ViciousReiven
@Yummylee said:

@ViciousReiven said:

The thing that disappoints me most about DMC2 besides just being a flat out bad game, is it had some really good designs here and there that could of been really cool if the game where any good. A few that come to mind are parasitic demons that take over other things, like soldiers and tanks (at least I think the soldiers weren't human anymore), a huge fuck off skyscraper that shoots lasers, a blob monster that's an amalgamation of bosses from the series so far, and the Despair Embodied, which is basically what I'd expect a fallen angel to look like. It also had a concept I really liked, Desperation Devil Trigger, they made it way too over powered to be interesting, but the model design for it was pretty cool, it could have been some secret awesome thing like a 1/1000th chance to turn into it when you DT or something.

I haven't played enough (or that I potentially just can't remember) to understand a lot of what you're talking about, but did at least remind me to say that the actual designs for the Devil Trigger models are alright. That plus allowing you to fly at will until you run out of Devil Juice could have been neat.

Here, don't bother playing to look for the few neat things, I'll just post the examples: 
  Nefasturris the skyscraper boss    
    Despair Embodied  final boss (bonus, using Trish, she's an unlockable character) 
    
      DDT @ 1:27 
  
Posted by ArbitraryWater

I'm not going to lie, you're making me kinda want to play DMC2 so I can rip it apart. I've already written something about the new game for my next blog (whenever that gets finished, which is whenever I finish Valkyria Chronicles II), and I'm really in the mood to criticize something instead of praise it effortlessly. Overpowered guns you say? hmmmm...

Posted by Yummylee

@ViciousReiven said:

The thing that disappoints me most about DMC2 besides just being a flat out bad game, is it had some really good designs here and there that could of been really cool if the game where any good. A few that come to mind are parasitic demons that take over other things, like soldiers and tanks (at least I think the soldiers weren't human anymore), a huge fuck off skyscraper that shoots lasers, a blob monster that's an amalgamation of bosses from the series so far, and the Despair Embodied, which is basically what I'd expect a fallen angel to look like. It also had a concept I really liked, Desperation Devil Trigger, they made it way too over powered to be interesting, but the model design for it was pretty cool, it could have been some secret awesome thing like a 1/1000th chance to turn into it when you DT or something.

I haven't played enough (or that I potentially just can't remember) to understand a lot of what you're talking about, but did at least remind me to say that the actual designs for the Devil Trigger models are alright. That plus allowing you to fly at will until you run out of Devil Juice could have been neat.

Posted by ViciousReiven

The thing that disappoints me most about DMC2 besides just being a flat out bad game, is it had some really good designs here and there that could of been really cool if the game where any good. 
A few that come to mind are parasitic demons that take over other things, like soldiers and tanks (at least I think the soldiers weren't human anymore), a huge fuck off skyscraper that shoots lasers, a blob monster that's an amalgamation of bosses from the series so far, and the Despair Embodied, which is basically what I'd expect a fallen angel to look like. 
It also had a concept I really liked, Desperation Devil Trigger, they made it way too over powered to be interesting, but the model design for it was pretty cool, it could have been some secret awesome thing like a 1/1000th chance to turn into it when you DT or something. 

Edited by Yummylee

@Sackmanjones said:

DmC: Devil may Cry is my favorite in the series. "Divert all power to the shit-storm shields"

I don't think that's really necessary anymore. I'd say the overall response to the game has switched a fair deal since the PC version was released. Of course you're always going to have the crazies who consider it a blight on the franchise bladdy blah blah, but that vocal minority has turned into just a minority lately.

@Demoskinos said:

@Yummylee: Yeah, like you I had only flirted with DMC 2 and well for that matter DMC 1 until early last year when I picked up the HD collection. I spent way way too much time playing DMC 2. There is just so much wrong with that game its mind blowing. But the thing that is even crazier is that its not really "bad" so much as you said its just bland in every sense of the word.

If anything is sad about DmC coming out and abandoning the original cannon its that DMC 2 is the furthest along in the original DMC 2 time line. So were left with Dante riding a motorcycle into hell which in itself sounds like a cool way to cap everything off except that none of what came before that moment makes a lick of sense. Usually, when people complain about not understanding the story I usually think its a bunch of hyperbole because even in jargon heavy games like say Final Fantasy XIII they still "explain" what is going on. Absolutely no explanation about anything. The conversations between Dante and Lucia infer that they know each other but that is never touched nor is it touched where the bad guy comes from its just like you said almost impressive that this game straddles this insane line of being the absolute definition of mediocrity.

Wait... I think I may have actually completed DMC2 in the past because I can distinctly recall that ending scene where Dante just rides off into Hell. That's weird, it's like I'm going through nostalgia but without the actual feeling of nostalgia. Also I would go as far as to it was bad. It takes a rare level of awfulness for me to simply not want to play a game anymore after like 2 hours. There's just nothing there that can spurn me on and I'd rather just put that time towards playing more DMC3.

Or DMC, or DmC, or DMC4. Hell, I'd rather just play the Metal Gear Rising demo for another 3-4 hours instead.

@egg said:

@Yummylee said:

For as surprisingly serious as the first one takes itself, it still has some small semblance of personality throughout its aesthetic and the cutscenes,

Is that code for "being totally cheesy and ridiculous" and "cool if you're 12 years old which is how old I was when I first played it"

xD

Don't get me wrong, I don't think anything to do with the writing or the style in DMC is' cool'. It's just that it's at least something. Something is actually happening in these cutscenes; Dante is at least saying some of the dumbest shit imaginable. It's not well written and it's not even all that funny, either. But there's some colour in here. DMC2 by comparison is a blank slate.

Posted by Yummylee

@Vonocourt said:

@GunstarRed: Don't remember there ever being a reason to not use the guns over the melee weapons. Especially with the stages being so large, more often than not you would kill the enemy by shooting them before you got close enough to swipe with your sword.

And then Lucia had those underwater missions...this game sucked.

DMC had some crummy underwater sections, too. Fortunately they're not very long. Actually DMC gets really weird nearing the end. There's a part where you're flying through space and it basically turn into a 3D Bullet Hell shooter. Then there's the end boss, which is cribbed right from RE2, where you just gotta keep shooting the now shapeless blob of Mundus as he... slimes toward you. Then finally it ends with some short, super-linear segment where you're flying a plane through the caverns as they collapse -- not entirely unlike the ending to RE4 on the jetski, which is all the more fitting given that this was an RE4 prototype. Yeah, amongst the most obvious mechanics like the camera angles and item hunting, DMC is steeped in the Resident Evil-isms.

@OneKillWonder_ said:

I only played the game once back when it came out, and didn't even manage to finish it because I had it on a rental. But yeah, I remember being very underwhelmed by it compared to the first. I think I still enjoyed it somewhat, but it was way too easy and, like you said, the combat didn't have the same feel as the first. I recall it feeling a lot slower and more sluggish. Some of the boss battles were pretty neat, like that giant head that comes out of a building. I specifically remember the part where I got stuck that caused me not to finish the game. It was the only real challenging part of the whole game at that point, and you had to knock monsters into this crystal thing before time ran out. Hell, maybe it wasn't that hard. I think I only tried once, failed, and gave up after that. I plan on re-buying the DMC collection soon though, since my original copy broke, so I'll have to check it out again.

I wouldn't consider the combat to be sluggish or slow or anything. It works, it just feels terribly weak, which is weird because you can kill just about everything by simply mashing the attack button most of the time.

@Hailinel said:

DMC2 suffers from being a game experiencing growing pains. The first was more or less a Resident Evil mod. The second was really the first attempt to make DMC its own thing from the ground up. Gross miscalculations were made, but they learned enough from their mistakes to create DMC3, so it's not as though the game was for nothing. I'd own it at this point for history's sake if nothing else.

That's one way to look at it. There are definitely some elements that are well known in DMC3 that originated here, like Dante doing that bullet rain attack of his in mid-air. Still, a bad game is a bad game, and given the harsh reaction to DMC2, I think we should all be more grateful that it didn't entirely sink the franchise. DMC3 sold relatively poorly I believe, which was no doubt due to the ill will imposed by DMC2.

@Fire_Of_The_Wind said:

The only good thing I can say about DMC2 is the animations they gave Dante, running on walls, the variations to the double jump depending on direction, some new attacks and moves.. etc were well made but they never do anything with them. Everything else about the game though, is bad. If you just want to get through the game just use the guns because they're massively overpowered.

Sure, just like every Capcom game out there, it at least looks OK from a technical standpoint. Character models are fine, if super generic, and it runs well at a solid 60 and all that. But of course none of that really matters when the core game is what is it.

Posted by egg

@Yummylee said:

For as surprisingly serious as the first one takes itself, it still has some small semblance of personality throughout its aesthetic and the cutscenes,

Is that code for "being totally cheesy and ridiculous" and "cool if you're 12 years old which is how old I was when I first played it"

xD

Posted by Demoskinos

@Yummylee: Yeah, like you I had only flirted with DMC 2 and well for that matter DMC 1 until early last year when I picked up the HD collection. I spent way way too much time playing DMC 2. There is just so much wrong with that game its mind blowing. But the thing that is even crazier is that its not really "bad" so much as you said its just bland in every sense of the word.

If anything is sad about DmC coming out and abandoning the original cannon its that DMC 2 is the furthest along in the original DMC 2 time line. So were left with Dante riding a motorcycle into hell which in itself sounds like a cool way to cap everything off except that none of what came before that moment makes a lick of sense. Usually, when people complain about not understanding the story I usually think its a bunch of hyperbole because even in jargon heavy games like say Final Fantasy XIII they still "explain" what is going on. Absolutely no explanation about anything. The conversations between Dante and Lucia infer that they know each other but that is never touched nor is it touched where the bad guy comes from its just like you said almost impressive that this game straddles this insane line of being the absolute definition of mediocrity.

Posted by RandomInternetUser

@Hailinel said:

DMC2 suffers from being a game experiencing growing pains. The first was more or less a Resident Evil mod. The second was really the first attempt to make DMC its own thing from the ground up. Gross miscalculations were made, but they learned enough from their mistakes to create DMC3, so it's not as though the game was for nothing. I'd own it at this point for history's sake if nothing else.

Yeah, this is kind of what I'm thinking right now. I don't remember all of 2 because I only played through it once and only as Dante (one mission as the lady, but I don't even really remember that,) but reflecting on the game now, it seems some of the stuff that was so goddamn awesome in 3 had its very rough ground-work laid down in 2 (like the Trickster style, Rainstorm, Twosome-time, etc.)

@Yummylee said:

@Humanity said:

I was very tempted to get the HD collection while waiting for the DmC DLC - ironically I would have loved if it was just day one DLC instead. But yah, I don't really want to play DMC1 cause its this weird Resident Evil on ecstasy. I hear DMC2 is terrible - so I'd only be getting it for DMC3 but then why bother getting the entire collection? It's sort of like when I got the Capcom greatest hits collection that had Dead Rising, Lost Planet and DMC4. I only cared and played DMC4 and could have gotten it much cheaper alone and it wouldn't have been in a *shudder* grey box case.. Your post just reaffirms that there's no point for me to actually get the entire collection since only one of the games is worth it.

I hear that the PC version for DMC3 it a bunch of rubbish, though, so maybe it might be worth paying... I dunno, $20 or something for DMC3 HD and you could consider DMC1 a bonus? And DMC2 as a faithful reminder of how hard a franchise can fall :P

God. The PC version is so so so bad when it comes to controller support (and several other things.) I had to do quite a bunch of googling and tinkering to just get an XBox 360 controller to work at all, and the weapon swapping still only works with the keyboard so I can't pull off combos that involve weapon swapping :(. If it's the only way you can play DMC3, though, it's absolutely worth it.

Posted by Sackmanjones

DmC: Devil may Cry is my favorite in the series.  
 
"Divert all power to the shit-storm shields"

Edited by Yummylee

@Vonocourt said:

I've never traded in a game before because I like to collect them. DMC2 was the first and only game I ever bought and gave away.

I think my first time playing DMC2 was via a rental. I don't think I took it back early or anything, but I know that I never spent much time with it and played some other game instead.

@xobballox said:

I actually somewhat enjoyed 2 as a kid (I would have been 10 when I played it. Meaning I was like 8 when I played the first one for the first time. Damn.) Not nearly as much as 1, but I loved the acrobatic stuff back then. I recently bought the HD collection, so I'm looking forward to finding out how much I hate DMC2 now.

The acrobatic stuff is alright to play around with, and it's actually sort of a shame that they toned Dante's jumping ability back down to how it was in the original. Though they at least gave you the Trickster style to work with.

@Humanity said:

I was very tempted to get the HD collection while waiting for the DmC DLC - ironically I would have loved if it was just day one DLC instead. But yah, I don't really want to play DMC1 cause its this weird Resident Evil on ecstasy. I hear DMC2 is terrible - so I'd only be getting it for DMC3 but then why bother getting the entire collection? It's sort of like when I got the Capcom greatest hits collection that had Dead Rising, Lost Planet and DMC4. I only cared and played DMC4 and could have gotten it much cheaper alone and it wouldn't have been in a *shudder* grey box case.. Your post just reaffirms that there's no point for me to actually get the entire collection since only one of the games is worth it.

I hear that the PC version for DMC3 it a bunch of rubbish, though, so maybe it might be worth paying... I dunno, $20 or something for DMC3 HD and you could consider DMC1 a bonus? And DMC2 as a faithful reminder of how hard a franchise can fall :P

@GunstarRed said:

Zombie Tanks! Zombie Helicopters! It has been a while, but the thing I remember most was just powering through the hardest sections and eventually I'd win, kinda like the tentacle boss. I remember just shooting it with SMG's for an age before it died.

Oh, I totally fought against one of those tanks, too. All I had to do was just run up, jump on top and attack until it's dead. It couldn't hurt me and it went down in seconds when I used Devil Trigger... There's just no energy to this game whatsoever. It's like it's all running on fumes.

@Demoskinos said:

@Yummylee Yep. DMC2's blandness is fucking amazing. They had you fight a DEMON SKYSCRAPER. REPEAT. DANTE FIGHTS A SKYSCRAPER. And they manage to make even THAT an exercise in utter tedium.

That's... in an ironic sense kind of impressive. That it could fuck up something that sounds so outlandish and cool.

@SagaciousJones said:

@Yummylee said:

Dante might as well be a mute (also where did the coin thing come from) and the way cutscenes just end makes the game feel unfinished. From the few bosses that I fought, some don't even have any kind of introduction! It's like literally entering a room and, oh, I guess I'm fighting this giant tentacle monster now for some reason. The bosses themselves are also poorly designed, like that aforementioned tentacle boss, where I didn't even know how to beat it exactly.
...

DMC2 feels like it has no identity. It's all so incredibly monotonous and boring that I can finally understand why so many people have gone so far as to essentially disallow the idea that this game even exists.

While I agree that the execution is terrible and the completely wrong direction for the series, I actually think there is something to be found in DMC2. A bit of something. This Something Awful post describes it fairly well:

DMC2 was from a very long time ago and I don't really intend to go back, so this might have some major holes in it:

I remember that the second game had this real sense of a world that's been beaten. Not just the destroyed city backgrounds and corporate control enforced by demonic helicopters, not post apocalyptic- everything was just sort of grimy, unpleasant, and, well, broken. DMC 3's architecture was samey and bland in a lot of ways but it always had an oppressive tone to its design, holding an implicit challenge to Dante, his brashness, and your playstyle. DMC 2 was just mugging your way through the dredge. Dante had a lot less energy, and he didn't talk much. The weapons, which are usually a burst of creativity, were a step backwards from even the original game. They create a Dante that is more concerned with a practical spread of weapons than flaming fists or electric bat guitars. I can't remember Lucia's deal other than being a robot, which, really, is as bereft of humanity as you can get. And the recurring image is Dante's double sided coin, not so much a "devil with a heart of gold" move, but a halfhearted attempt to make it look like he's detached from something he's inevitably going to do. It was another fight for a tired man in a tired world.

Just glancing at Accounting Nightmare's LP of the game, I see that the game opens in a museum fighting for a literal relic of the past and ends with Dante fighting the most ridiculous amalgamation of demons, the metaphorical sludge of impersonal, aimless evil that Dante's been fighting the whole game.

Edit: I know other games have gone for the tired, beaten protagonist more recently. MGS4 did a fantastic job, I think, and from what I've heard Splinter Cell and Max Payne have gone in similar directions. Does that sound accurate? How did fans react to that?

I frankly take all of that as excuses. They're looking for reasons to justify why it is was it is, but there's a difference between looking intentionally meek and depressing, and just looking dull and generic. I'm not engaged in anything, and I love when games take things down that road. I love movies like The Road for a literal example, and while I wasn't a fan of MGS4 overall, Snake getting old and even more cankerous was incredible to watch. But DMC2 is just... empty. It's not engaging or interesting in the slightest from both a story standpoint (Dante just comes across as aloof and undeveloped) or gameplay, and the aesthetic isn't stylishly down-trodden, it's just flat open spaces of nothing surrounded by a lot of brown.

@doobie said:

but he has white hair so its better than DmC by default.

I know you're just trying to be snarky-funny, but c'mon now, the whole ''white hair'' thing has passed.

Posted by oraknabo

I've mentioned this a couple of times elsewhere on the board. I think it's amazing how indignant the DMC fans have been about the new DmC, acting like all "Old Dante" games are perfect and I've barely heard anyone mention how shamefully bad DMC2 is. Until Ninja Theory makes something worse than that piece of crap, DMC fans have no right to complain.

Posted by ImmortalSaiyan

@Sooty said:

@Humanity said:

Your post just reaffirms that there's no point for me to actually get the entire collection since only one of the games is worth it.

I wouldn't say the first isn't worth playing, it's good but it's nowhere near 3.

The combo system in 3 is so nuts.

Easy to see how Capcom were able to fit Dante and Vergil into Marvel vs. Capcom.

Lately you always seem to mention MVC3 is posts. Watching a good Dante player in that game is one of my favorite things because it looks like a combos straight outta DMC3.

Posted by Fire_Of_The_Wind

The only good thing I can say about DMC2 is the animations they gave Dante, running on walls, the variations to the double jump depending on direction, some new attacks and moves.. etc were well made but they never do anything with them. Everything else about the game though, is bad. If you just want to get through the game just use the guns because they're massively overpowered.

Posted by Hailinel

DMC2 suffers from being a game experiencing growing pains. The first was more or less a Resident Evil mod. The second was really the first attempt to make DMC its own thing from the ground up. Gross miscalculations were made, but they learned enough from their mistakes to create DMC3, so it's not as though the game was for nothing. I'd own it at this point for history's sake if nothing else.

Online
Posted by OneKillWonder_

I only played the game once back when it came out, and didn't even manage to finish it because I had it on a rental. But yeah, I remember being very underwhelmed by it compared to the first. I think I still enjoyed it somewhat, but it was way too easy and, like you said, the combat didn't have the same feel as the first. I recall it feeling a lot slower and more sluggish. Some of the boss battles were pretty neat, like that giant head that comes out of a building.
 
I specifically remember the part where I got stuck that caused me not to finish the game. It was the only real challenging part of the whole game at that point, and you had to knock monsters into this crystal thing before time ran out. Hell, maybe it wasn't that hard. I think I only tried once, failed, and gave up after that. I plan on re-buying the DMC collection soon though, since my original copy broke, so I'll have to check it out again.

Posted by Eaxis

Just finished the awesome new Dmc. Ordered the HD collection after watching Brad play it. Only played 4 so I'm gonna check out the games in order.

Posted by Sooty

@Humanity said:

Your post just reaffirms that there's no point for me to actually get the entire collection since only one of the games is worth it.

I wouldn't say the first isn't worth playing, it's good but it's nowhere near 3.

The combo system in 3 is so nuts.

Easy to see how Capcom were able to fit Dante and Vergil into Marvel vs. Capcom.

Posted by Vonocourt

@GunstarRed: Don't remember there ever being a reason to not use the guns over the melee weapons. Especially with the stages being so large, more often than not you would kill the enemy by shooting them before you got close enough to swipe with your sword.

And then Lucia had those underwater missions...this game sucked.

Posted by doobie

but he has white hair so its better than DmC by default.

Edited by SagaciousJones

@Yummylee said:

Dante might as well be a mute (also where did the coin thing come from) and the way cutscenes just end makes the game feel unfinished. From the few bosses that I fought, some don't even have any kind of introduction! It's like literally entering a room and, oh, I guess I'm fighting this giant tentacle monster now for some reason. The bosses themselves are also poorly designed, like that aforementioned tentacle boss, where I didn't even know how to beat it exactly.
...

DMC2 feels like it has no identity. It's all so incredibly monotonous and boring that I can finally understand why so many people have gone so far as to essentially disallow the idea that this game even exists.

While I agree that the execution is terrible and the completely wrong direction for the series, I actually think there is something to be found in DMC2. A bit of something. This Something Awful post describes it fairly well:

DMC2 was from a very long time ago and I don't really intend to go back, so this might have some major holes in it:

I remember that the second game had this real sense of a world that's been beaten. Not just the destroyed city backgrounds and corporate control enforced by demonic helicopters, not post apocalyptic- everything was just sort of grimy, unpleasant, and, well, broken. DMC 3's architecture was samey and bland in a lot of ways but it always had an oppressive tone to its design, holding an implicit challenge to Dante, his brashness, and your playstyle. DMC 2 was just mugging your way through the dredge. Dante had a lot less energy, and he didn't talk much. The weapons, which are usually a burst of creativity, were a step backwards from even the original game. They create a Dante that is more concerned with a practical spread of weapons than flaming fists or electric bat guitars. I can't remember Lucia's deal other than being a robot, which, really, is as bereft of humanity as you can get. And the recurring image is Dante's double sided coin, not so much a "devil with a heart of gold" move, but a halfhearted attempt to make it look like he's detached from something he's inevitably going to do. It was another fight for a tired man in a tired world.

Just glancing at Accounting Nightmare's LP of the game, I see that the game opens in a museum fighting for a literal relic of the past and ends with Dante fighting the most ridiculous amalgamation of demons, the metaphorical sludge of impersonal, aimless evil that Dante's been fighting the whole game.

Edit: I know other games have gone for the tired, beaten protagonist more recently. MGS4 did a fantastic job, I think, and from what I've heard Splinter Cell and Max Payne have gone in similar directions. Does that sound accurate? How did fans react to that?

Posted by Demoskinos
@Yummylee Yep. DMC2's blandness is fucking amazing. They had you fight a DEMON SKYSCRAPER. REPEAT. DANTE FIGHTS A SKYSCRAPER. And they manage to make even THAT an exercise in utter tedium.
Posted by GunstarRed

Zombie Tanks! Zombie Helicopters! It has been a while, but the thing I remember most was just powering through the hardest sections and eventually I'd win, kinda like the tentacle boss. I remember just shooting it with SMG's for an age before it died.

Posted by Humanity

I was very tempted to get the HD collection while waiting for the DmC DLC - ironically I would have loved if it was just day one DLC instead. But yah, I don't really want to play DMC1 cause its this weird Resident Evil on ecstasy. I hear DMC2 is terrible - so I'd only be getting it for DMC3 but then why bother getting the entire collection?

It's sort of like when I got the Capcom greatest hits collection that had Dead Rising, Lost Planet and DMC4. I only cared and played DMC4 and could have gotten it much cheaper alone and it wouldn't have been in a *shudder* grey box case..

Your post just reaffirms that there's no point for me to actually get the entire collection since only one of the games is worth it.

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