Company of Champions. Are you in?

I read the description and figured I needed to join that instead of the Blue covenant. I've played 500 hours of Dark Souls so I figure if the game offers a way to increase the difficulty I should do it. I died 5 minutes later and laughed my ass off when I saw the achievement pop.

Who's going to become a Champion?

No! I'm not a crazy person, I am totally happy in the Covenant of The Meek, thank you very much!

I think the Champions is all you dude...for me, it's Sunbro time again! Definitely starting a new character - I made it to what I think is the second to last boss before the end of the game though.

The Blue Sentinels actually sound interesting. Just be a bro-on-call for other players.

Edit: As someone who never touched the Covenant stuff in Dark Souls 1, the MP portion of Dark Souls 2 is really tempting me. I think the Covenant stuff is made a lot more obvious for the better.

So here is the interesting thing. I've died around 5 times already. I died 4 times near the Tower area and then I took off and went into the forest. I just died once there. I think that the Covenant makes more difficult enemies appear or they do more damage or something, because I am super squishy and there are some darker colored enemies compared with the rest of the enemy group.

@golguin: I am really interested in the wider implications of facing more difficult enemies, and what that could mean for the rest of the game. There may be things you can access that aren't available any other way...

I'm considering the Bell Bros, though. That sounds like a ton of fun.

I did a bit of pig testing and my suspicions have been confirmed. Two handed RT attack deals low 30s to the pigs while in the Covenant of Champions. I left the covenant and I was dealing damage in the low 40s. That could potentially be a huge buff for the enemies if their durability increased by a percentage. They might deal more damage and have more HP in general, but I didn't check that.

And a general game update. I just saw that my message was rated. A little alarm tingle went off and a message appeared letting me know it was rated. I wonder what it does this time.

I was wondering if you can do a match of if you get more souls from individual enemies by being in the champions covenant?

with the 15 respawn limit the chance to get more souls no matter the difficulty is enticing. im tempted to become a champion but apart from more difficult what are the other benefits?

How can you tell what convenants do? And what does the one do that you can find right after the tutorial area? I said no cause I remember there being one that made the game harder.

As far as I can tell it's not explained anywhere in the game. You just need to notice things. I wont know if more enemies respawn because I'm going in with the Company of Champions right off the bat. I know for sure that I deal less damage to enemies. I'm pretty sure they can hit me harder. I don't know if they have more HP.

Another update. I just engaged in my first invasion and I won. I directed the dude to the forest bonfire and let him clear out the enemies. We then had a very nice match that lasted a few minutes and ended with GG messages. I didn't seem get any souls from the invasion (maybe he left souls on the ground?), but I did get a nice red stone as proof of my victory. It's used to open yourself up to invasions it seems.

I thought that invaders could use healing items when they invade? My estus flask and life gems were grayed out. Maybe the Company of Champions doesn't let you use healing items? Can someone who's invaded confirm or deny this?

OMG I finally did it! I beat the first boss in the forest. The Company of Champions is NO JOKE! The dude was able to one shot me with most of his attacks (could survive 1 counter swipe), but once he tore off his arm it was all or nothing. I think the fight lasted around 10-15 minutes. I only died around 5 times, but each time at least lasted 10 minutes. I died to the one shot stomp a few times and then club the rest of the times.

I just saw a youtube video of someone playing it normally and the fight is like night and day. The aggression level is highly reduced, doesn't hit as hard, and it may take more damage (don't know the person's level).

Something even more troubling. I couldn't use my White Soap Stone to get summoned into another world anywhere in the level (I had it on me and constantly checked) or at the boss fog gate. When I saw the video there were summon signs all over the place right before the fog gate.

Can you drop your summon sign before the forest boss? If not then the Company of Champions doesn't seem to allow coop or help.

@golguin: The Company of Champions treats your game like it's a NG+. Dark Souls 2 doesn't let people who are in NG+ interact with people who are not.

I haven't heard that before, but it seems wrong. I have invaded 2 people within 2 hours of starting the game at midnight and I know for sure they were not in NG+ and I was in the covenant. I was also invaded while I was in the forest and that person didn't seem to know how to fight.

EDIT: Gah, if they were also in the covenant then I'd be able to interact with them according tot he NG+ rule. That would make sense. It still doesn't explain why I can't use my white sign soapstone at all.

I did confirm with a few other people that YOU CAN'T USE YOUR WHITE SIGN SOAPSTONE when you're in the covenant. At the very least they haven't been able to use it. The mystery goes on. There is barely any info out there so the Company of Champions is very mysterious. The leaderboard for the covenant shows that only 4 bosses have been defeated while in the covenant and only a couple of people managed that. Currently ranked 41.

@golguin: You are a crazy person. I mean that as a compliment.

I joined it for the Trophy and then abandoned it. Maybe some day.

Dude, you have no idea how crazy it is. I'm been playing for 11 hours and I've only killed a single boss. The enemies are so damn powerful. I got so cocky last night because after my initial 5 deaths at the tower near the ocean I headed into the forest and was able to stay human all the way to the boss. That's when I realized just how crazy this was going to be.

After the defeat of the boss I can't seem to find anywhere to go where I'm not constantly getting one shotted by the enemies. Every fight is essentially a life and death thing and I'm going to step out of the covenant for a bit just to see the difference and try out my white soap stone. I wont be calling people into my world, but I want to see what's out there.

I'll join up when I'm at the next boss. I'm told that points are maintained and there is no penalty for leaving covenants.

EDIT: I almost forgot to mention this, but when you're in the Company of Champions you get a special item for successfully killing invaders. You use it to level up your ranking.

Joined it by accident. After 3 hours trying to get above the ladder in the first garden area, I realized my covenant might have fucked me over. Rerolled a new character, I'll try that covenant when I've played the game through at least once.

Nah, i didnt even find that one. I'm in the guardians of blue right now. Also, i got "sin" points for bailing from the way of blue to join the sentinels of the blue (or whatever they're called) which is bullshit if you ask me! thats not sin-worthy, thats like a promotion or something!

I don't think it's going to matter whether you've played through the game once when it comes to fighting while in the Company of Champions. I think it's going to be pretty manageable once you have a fully leveled character (lots of stamina for attacking and dodging plus Poise and agility for speed), but if you start a new game with a fresh character and you're not simply running past everything I can tell you without a doubt that it's harder than most things in Dark Souls 1.

It also sounds like you started a new character because you joined the covenant? There's an NPC in Manjula that will let you abandon your covenant. I have not heard of any penalty for doing so.

Having fun with Pursuer?

Well this pretty much convinced me to start another character built out to join this covenant. Augh why do I need to have a job and a girlfriend all I want to do is play this game!

I don't know I avoided the champions covenant and bosses still 2 shot me, at 50% health penalty pursuer 1 shots me as well. I personally think they got stupid and over did it. Normal enemies are mostly a joke but the bosses seem to all be no room for error get hit 1-2 times no heal you die. Also all the experience in the world in the previous games is meaningless because the timing of everything is f'd up. Dodges only work on the last half of the roll, blocking is slow as crap, swing recovery is helaciously long, and it takes longer to use a healing item than it does to do a three swing one hand combo. Basically boss fights are now be perfect or probably die. I have yet to successfully get 1 estus flask off on pursuer he is too aggressive and the flasks are too slow.

@karkarov: Have to use gems in boss fights I find, there's a much faster boss not too far down the line with a semi-similar attack pattern to Pursuer who it's absolutely impossible to get an Estus off against. You don't have to fight Pursuer, though I guess he qualifies as a shortcut; he took me a while to beat with a crappy shield (but he did give enough souls for 8 soul levels), but if you went at it with the eagle shield equivalent it shouldn't be too horrible. Basically Pursuer has 3 hit combos that he'll do sometimes, and he has a long enough recovery period after the charging uppercut swing to get one hit in. Never attack before the third hit of a regular combo (this is also the time to heal if need be), if he doesn't do it then just back off. The shield bash is the real motherfucker, but as long as you're tentatively moving backwards most of the fight it shouldn't hit you; also he doesn't always hit immediately after it (though he did my first 2 attempts). It should go without saying but avoid the grab, that's the one thing you can reliably roll away from in any direction. Immediately after Pursuer drop down and you'll get some ridiculous armor/evidently one of the best shields in the game; I haven't used the armor (addicted to fast stamina gain) but the shield has been a constant companion.

Your comment about a short cut is interesting but I don't want to hear about it! I have been over the forest with a fine tooth comb and have found nothing that could help in that regard. I mucked about the tower for a bit as well but didn't go too far in. The tower mobs are surprisingly easy to kill one on one. It is that 2-3 on one part that is giving me pause :P.

One thing I think they did right was the atmosphere, this game reminds me a lot more of king's field that either Demon's or Dark 1 did. All the hard dark edges on rooms and stuff was sort of a staple of that game. I am getting the feeling though they expect you to farm a crap ton in this game because the enemies go from 1-100 a little too fast.

I joined the covenant because it was the first one I came across. Little did I know it was contributing to why my sorcerer was taking so much damage even with decent eq. I just started reading the strategy guide and found out that it weakens your attacks & strengthens your enemies. I quickly switched to the Way of the Blue.

I actually killed him while in the Company of Champions.

I guess I cheesed it a bit because I took off most of his health with that giant crossbow. I was able to heal with my Estus. I just forced him into that 3 hit combo and then I'd chug as he performed it. Having 16 Adaptability probably helped. I was really good at dodging all of his attacks (can't do it locked on need to be free ballin it) and I'd forced him to do the 3 hit combo in front of the giant crossbow. I had already taken off 1/4 of his health so that killed him. I was very disappointed to find out that there was no visible gift or reward for taking him down while in the covenant. I thought that the covenant points on the tablet shows the bosses you killed, but it was just for invaders. Who's going to know I killed him?

I'd also like to confirm that being in the Company of Champions DOES NOT restrict invasions. I had a guy invade my game that didn't even unlock the achievement for finding he covenant. He told me he just used a cracked eye orb to invade.

@golguin: Yeah you have to get lucky for that to happen in a 1 on 1. Most of the time he's already broken all of the stuff before you could manage to use it. Pursuer can either be really easy because he chose to do easy attack patterns/you have a good shield or almost impossibly difficult if he doesn't/you don't.

@karkarov: They also drop some of the best equipment in the game; though it's probably rare for them to drop exactly what you want.

I totally have no fucking clue where to go right now and neither does the internet. Perhaps I should decorate the mansion with my cavalcade of boss souls.

Edit: Figured it out yay, only took 2 hours of aimless wandering through zones.

Hi all,

Signed up just to post in this thread. I am trying to play this game relatively spoiler free however I wanted to do some research on this covenant since I had no idea what it is for.

Let's just say that I joined this covenant immediately after arriving in town. Let me tell you about my progression.

I explored up until the white knight in the forest. I got bored and went exploring some more and ended up in the tower of fire area. I started out as depraved. I ran past the giant guys and ended up in the dragonrider boss fight with the broken thief sword equipped. I hadn't used the level to increase the size of the arena. I was able to beat him and believe I got 12000 souls. I leveled up enough to use the morning star and then I defeated the Old Dragonslayer. I went to the no-man's pirate area and got killed a few times so I decided to go back to the forest area. Got key to mansion and blacksmith. Leveled up morning star to +3. Unfortunately, resin won't apply to it which is why I'm sad to hear one of the rewards from this covenant is a weapon buff since I'll likely stick with the morning star for the forseeable future (playthough?). My goal was to do an Intel/magic melee build. Still haven't found a catalyst though supposedly I could have bought one from the lady in tower of fire. Derp. I'm around level 32 after leveling after killing the Old Dragonslayer. I fell down a hole in the forest and that's when I quit playing. I died to some floating knight who I assume is the guy you're referring to as Pursuer. With that said, it's seems like a first playthrough is doable. Ignorance of the difficulty increase make it more tolerable. Elsewhere online it says enemies do more damage, have more health, and "harder to summon help" but it doesn't say anything about increased soul gains.

Soooo, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I just assumed that this game was as hard as it was. I might just stick with it since I've been mildly successful, especially after downing two bosses before proceeding through the forest. I'd like to know what the final reward is for this covenant but can't find any information yet. Unfortunately, I've only been invaded once and I got barfed on by a lizard before I could find him. It's a bummer to do a first playthrough with no assists but I might do it if the rewards are worth it. If anyone cares, I played demon's souls and dark souls 1 like a crackhead and have a lvl1 pyro on ng++ so I'm okay. Still getting used to the combat changes and definitely getting whooped. Unfortunately, I'm on PS3 and there is PSN scheduled maintenance tomorrow and the next day for extended periods so invasions are going to be even less likely. Any additional information is appreciated.

Kind regards,

Oh trust me when I say it was not luck. It was more of waiting game. I was the matador and he was the bull.

As soon as the fight started he'd charge and I'd dodge under his blade. We'd then be on opposite sides and he'd do it again and I'd dodge. I needed him to either do the swing, shield bash, and jumping strike combo or the thrust combo to get him still long so I'd have time to run to the crossbow and use it. It would happen like 1/12 dodge attempts. Also needed to be done in a specific area so it wouldn't miss. I was eventually able to time a single hit after each dodge so little by little his health went down. When I was confident that the arrow would kill him I went for it.

I did notice a little something from my fight compared to the non covenant fights I helped with. Pursuer seems to have a state change when he's almost dead. Maybe it was because he managed to do his curse thrust on me? Streams of darkness were blowing out of his armor.

All in all I think the fight with him can be pretty good, but I implemented the same dodging strategy on him as I did the forest boss. They couldn't deal with my rolls, but I can only manage a single safe hit at a time with that strategy. It takes time, but it works. I know for a fact that it can't be done without high adaptability because my rolling animations has become significantly faster. I can now attack and dodge certain enemies during certain attack animations that would always result in a landed counter attack. I'm becoming too fast for them now.

The weapon upgrade system is insane! Like a really fucking huge improvement. I mean you won't unlock it for a really long time but when you do it's mindblowing.

It occurs to me that this might be the best game ever made; like I don't have the online features at all and there's still maybe 500 hours of things I could think up to do. Also there might be around 35 bosses. I feel like I should be 90% done with the game but the reality is I might be only 2/3rds done or so and I've never lost the feeling that I'm totally lost and exploring shit off the cuff.

For example: "Oh shit aggro'd 7 enemies, run like hell; damnit another guy in an enclosed hallway, kill the motherfucker. He's dead, yeah you better back away turtle man. *continues running*"

This scenario happens like once every 20 minutes. For some reason even the shitty platforming feels like I've skillfully accomplished something; and there's a ton of that to do let me tell ya.

There's one boss that in an actually blind playthrough I don't think almost anyone would figure out what the trick is so they would brute force it and it might take like 40-50 tries (think Iron Golem with flaming boulders covering the entire arena at all times + the boss heals); I mean I'm playing about 95% blind but part of this zeitgeist stuff is communicating.

I just screwed up my all boss Company of Champions run by a single mistake because I lost my shit. I forgot to check my covenant and went to fight the boss in the blue cathedral to see what was in there. I swear I thought I was in the right covenant.

Once I walked in I thought to myself, "This whole place looks like Anor Londo. Architecture is very similar. This room looks like the boss room for Ornstein and Smough. Hmm, this boss is called Old Dragonslayer. He kinda looks like...OMG!!!! After that my brain turned off and I killed poor Ornstein in my first attempt. Basically has the same Dark Souls moveset. I wish I could have fought him in the Company of Champions! Damn my hype levels. I could have just died if I noticed I was in the wrong covenant.

EDIT: I just killed the boss right next to him while in the Company of Champions so maybe it wasn't that big of a loss. You can't come at me with a Dark Souls moveset and expect anything other than dodging and attacking for a swift victory.

Pretty sure it gives you a little bit of health back

I will keep that in mind. I decided to restart as a deprived to have more stat control anyway and as it turns out I think I found that route in the process so maybe I will try avoiding him for now. Will be touch and go.

I knew that I wanted to join the covenant as soon as I started the game. It's been grueling, but I want that out of Souls game. The Pursuer kicked my ass to the curb 31 times before I could beat him. I got kind of lucky when he went into a string of charge attacks that I could easily dodge. He is the only boss so far to give me a real tough time, but I think the belfry gargoyles are going to give me a run for my money too.

@karkarov: They have a 1% chance to drop "Old Knight" equipment, the best thing they can drop is the shield which is bonkers even with low durability. The best thing about low durability items is you don't need twinkles to upgrade them and they can get really ridiculously powerful. You don't get the covetous gold serpent ring for a really long time so I wouldn't worry too much about that; I imagine the best strategy/potentially speed running strategy is just farm them and then if they don't drop what you want restart the game. If only I had that shield when I fought the Pursuer, would be a cakewalk.

@golguin: I'm looking forward to hearing about some of the later fights on your run; particularly the ones where you fight a lot of guys at once or the dreaded Looking Glass Knight from all those previews.

In a cruel twist the most annoying area in the game for a melee character is also the brightest area; nah you don't need torches here, it's a nice peaceful zone with soothing singing going; also dying, lots of dying.

This is something I would try for NG+, but fuck no on my first run through the game.

Quick question: Can you just leave a covenant after entering it, or can you only leave by switching to a different one?

As if I want those damn pigs in majula to be any more powerful.

@sessh: The cat allows you to leave covenants. Trophies unlock as long as you get to the "leave covenant and join the next one?" message; even if you say no.

You can abandon your covenant by talking to the cat in Majula. You don't want to switch covenants without talking to her first.

@golguin: @fredchuckdave:

Thanks for the info. So there's a "we are gonna be pissed if you leave without telling us" system in place, also. Very good to know.

@golguin: The game is actually a lot easier online since you can just get infinite souls that way; you should try Covenant of Champions offline in the future. Summoning is literally instantaneous; in a weird twist there are way more people summoning help than there are actually putting signs down in the first few areas (and virtually no people in later areas in general; except for PvP which is pretty popping in a few spots; especially the Belfry Sol).

What do you mean about being in the Company of Champions while offline? You can't summon or see summon signs online or offline while you are in the covenant.

@golguin: I mean never putting down a white summon sign yourself; or just playing offline. I just made a character on a whim, halfway through decided to try Sunbro-ing, 5 hours later I am maxed out in that covenant and have Sunlight Spear; a miracle that requires - I shit you not - 55 faith; my character has 4 faith and is in possession of 190k souls out of 300k earned so far (I'll write a guide how to do this in a few days). 29 soul levels worth of souls. About 225k souls that I've earned have not come in my world, thus I have lost no potential soul income.

Being the only low level Sunbro = instant summon anywhere, any time. It's fast in general but the difference between 45 seconds and 5 seconds is rather large if you have to do it 30 times.

Oh, you mean playing offline in general so that I am unable to be summoned into another world while not in the covenant? I think I've successfully assisted online people 15-20 times, but I don't use those souls to level up. I just buy up whatever items I don't have from shop keepers to keep my soul level relatively low. I'm currently SL 60 with 4 bosses defeated and 30 hours of game time. I have not been able to invade as a Blue Sentinel, which is a huge bummer.

I haven't found the sunbro covenant. Today I plan to kill the bosses in the dark undead forest area. Progress is very slow because I now have to use 2-3 weapons to prevent any of them from breaking. I believe I was ranked 42nd in the Company of Champions last night. I wish more people would invade me, but apparently there is an area later in the game where invasions will come more frequently so hopefully I reach that area soon to kill more dudes.

@golguin: If you want to get invaded just hang out in the Belfry towers; there's one in the Lost Bastille and another in the Iron Keep.

I haven't reached that area yet. Is it obvious when I get to a Belfry tower?

@golguin: There's a Pharros contraption before each; it's a zone transition so that much should be obvious. Lost Bastille should be accessible to you.

Sunlight Covenant is in the last area that people usually go to before transitioning to the more linear part of the game (it's too long to have a specific title); a pretty tough area to get through with an SL 45; though the boss isn't too bad if you know how to do it.

I got to the Lost Bastille by flying there (apparently a shortcut) and I haven't seen a Pharros contraption anywhere in the area. I'm fairly certain I've explored the entire area up to the boss gate.

@golguin: It's after that boss, sorry if that's a spoiler. Red phantom invasions are going to be very rare until people get organized; could be a few months yet. Basically you'll be able to invade as a Red Phantom about 20 times per playthrough due to enemies that drop cracked red eye orbs; because getting them the other way is very unlikely. There are no permanent red eye/blue eye orbs. Apart from that the best low level pvp weapon in the game is a rare drop.

That sounds crazy. How are people suppose to engage in unlimited PVP?