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#1 Posted by Scratch (628 posts) -

Who did you kill/help? Why?

For those unaware or have just forgotten:

You meet Pate in the Forest of Fallen Giants. He's the dude that sits on a crate lamenting how his partner betrayed him and got trapped. He claims to have his ring and offers you some advice. You meet Creighton in Huntsman Copse trapped in a cage/cave next to a bonfire. Creighton thanks you for rescuing him if you've the key and blames his partner Pate for trapping him and leaving him for dead. He claims Pate is a murderer who shows no remorse for his actions. He warns you not to trust Pate and sets off to hunt him down for revenge. You can meet Pate again in Earthen Peak where he'll point you towards another treasure, but make no mention of Creighton.

In the shaded woods, you'll meet Creighton again. He'll still be bitter about Pate and tell you that he has finally tracked him down to Brightstone Cove. Now if you return to the bonfire in Brighstone Cove and look around in a house nearby, you'll see Creighton and Pate engaged in a fight. At this point you can choose to attack either or both of them or stand back and watch. Depending on who you chose to help you might get different drops but I am sure about that.

Personally, I killed Pate and helped Creighton. Pate always seemed like a shady dude to me from the beginning. He reminds me of Patches the Hyena. But here's a twist that makes me second guess my initial judgement....

After all that if you return to the mansion and talk to cartographer at some point, he'll mention how he knew this serial killer who had escaped from Mirrah whose name was "Cray something". So who do you trust?

#2 Edited by Humanity (9056 posts) -

I saw them in all the areas but when I got to Brighstone they weren't fighting in the house. Perhaps summoning Pate for the Giant boss battle is required for the story to go on. Also - although I did see Pate in Earthen Peak, I didn't have the key to open that door. So maybe he's still there? I sort of rushed through that area.

#3 Posted by Demoskinos (14770 posts) -

Wait, where is Pate's summon at? I just replayed that fight the other night with my 2nd Character and never saw his summon.

#4 Posted by mosespippy (4121 posts) -

I killed Pate. He trapped Creighton and sends you into the ambush in Forrest of Giants. Seems like he needs to get got.

#5 Posted by Marokai (2900 posts) -

I also killed Pate; though then Creighton sets you up with a chest trap and comments something like "Oh, I bet that will leave a scar.." and then I never saw him again. I assume both of them are evil regardless of who you help.

#6 Edited by XCEagle (112 posts) -

@humanity said:

I saw them in all the areas but when I got to Brighstone they weren't fighting in the house. Perhaps summoning Pate for the Giant boss battle is required for the story to go on. Also - although I did see Pate in Earthen Peak, I didn't have the key to open that door. So maybe he's still there? I sort of rushed through that area.

I didn't summon Pate so you don't need to. But I think you do need to get that door open and exhaust his dialogue. If you want a hint about that door: there's no key you need to make a drop on the other side.

I sided with Creighton. Cale doesn't exactly have a great memory and considering you meet him and Pate in the Forest of Fallen Giants, it's possible Pate may have had something to do with that too.

#7 Posted by Rolkien (57 posts) -

Wait, where is Pate's summon at? I just replayed that fight the other night with my 2nd Character and never saw his summon.

If you're alive and you got all his dialogue through in the Forest of Giants he actually appears right before the Last Giant. If he survives the fight next time you meet him he gives you stuff. I forgot what though.

#8 Edited by Sammo21 (3261 posts) -

@mosespippy: He doesn't send you into an ambush, so much since he did warn you that his friend went in but didn't come out.

#9 Edited by Turambar (6739 posts) -

Only one of those two is a an actual serial killer that broke out of jail.

Also, guys, what has the souls game taught you about people with creepy laughs that you free from a cell?

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#10 Posted by Sterling (2164 posts) -

Pate also didn't trap Creighton. He trapped himself.

#11 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4719 posts) -

@sterling said:

Pate also didn't trap Creighton. He trapped himself.

This. Pate may not be an honest man, but he's mild-mannered and does warn you that things could go south real quick in both situations you treasure hunt. Hell, he says you should keep the loot in Earthen Peak because he recognizes that he didn't have the balls to take that leap of faith and you did.

Creighton is just a crazy asshole and deserves to get got.

#12 Posted by Sterling (2164 posts) -

How cool would it have been to find patches standing above a hole. And both Pate and Creighton in the hole. Because Patches was just being Patches and out Patched them both. Patches!

#13 Edited by SilverSaint (15 posts) -

I helped Creighton. Pate is clearly trying to look super weak and un-imposing, but is incredibly strong. Pate skirts the truth every time you meet him and congratulates you on success, I took this to be his unhappiness at your success as he could clearly of got through every area he waited by with no trouble. From how things played out I surmised that Pate is actually a highly intelligent killer who derives pleasure from seeing others die and/or fail without laying a hand on them. Ceighton may look/sound like a potential killer(the cartographer mentions seeing a killer after you release him, but who it is is unclear), but Creighton never lies to you once. All of this is of course based on saving Creighton, I have no idea what Pate says if you save him, but Creighton looks like he was tricked in some way and his final lines seem to confirm this as he is done and now has nothing to live for, something a serial killer probably wouldn't say.

#14 Edited by Spoonman671 (4597 posts) -

Fuck Pate. That motherfucker was trying to set you up because he knew Creighton was after his ass, and that's why he gives you all his armor in the Earthen Peak. He's hoping Creighton will mistake you for Pate, jump on your ass, and get stuck himself, leaving you none-the-wiser as to why that dude tried to murder you. He may be mild-mannered, but he's also a fucking pussy and a traitor--ditching his buddy in that cell and never trying to help, and then setting your ass up. If you didn't slice that little shit, then you've been played.

#15 Edited by Seikenfreak (368 posts) -

The fun here is that I believe both seem to be bad people. Creighton is just more outspoken and such so it makes him seem obvious. The Cartographer can't really remember so he could be wrong. Pate seems very subtlely shady. I can't remember all the details but there are various tidbits of dialogue that make him sound like Patches or something. Sending people in first so he can take the loot after the trap has sprung. Creighton sounds like a violent person who is also probably guilty of a few things, but I'd guess Pate sets him up and traps him etc. Possibly took the Ring of Thorns from him.

I killed Pate on my first go around because I wanted Creightons awesome looking armor set. I used that stuff until the end when I farmed the Heide Knight set. Then in NG+ I killed Creighton just because.

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#16 Posted by Hamborgini (22 posts) -

The outcome is the same regardless. They are both assholes.

#17 Posted by mlarrabee (2927 posts) -

Pate gave me a bunch of stuff, including a second respec so I could use one without worrying. (I now know there are several out in the world.) I haven't seen Creighton in a while, not since the fork in the Shaded Forest, but when I do I think I'm going to shove a shiv in his back.

#18 Posted by Humanity (9056 posts) -

I finally got the encounter. Helped kill Creighton, then killed Pate. They can duke it out in the Nexus.

#19 Posted by Giefcookie (598 posts) -

I helped Pate because he tells you about the ambush in forest of giants before you go through the door, and because he reminds me of Trusty old Patches!

#20 Posted by Redhotchilimist (205 posts) -

I killed Creighton because the cartographer told me about the serial killer from Mirrah, but I instantly regretted it. The helmet you get after killing him says that "it looks like an imitation". He was probably not the one the cartographer was thinking about. If I play the game again, I'm definitely taking out Pate.
Still, really impressed by this questline. Mixing the Patches character and the NPC killer-like character and making you choose between too very untrustworthy characters(that still both seem nicer than their counterparts) made it hard to make a decision.

#21 Posted by mosespippy (4121 posts) -

@turambar said:

Only one of those two is a an actual serial killer that broke out of jail.

Also, guys, what has the souls game taught you about people with creepy laughs that you free from a cell?

That if I keep them alive long enough then it'll pay off in the end.

#22 Edited by Sterling (2164 posts) -

Did you guys know that you can just stand there and let the fight play out. If you don't interfere one of them will eventually win. They just wont give you the key. You then have to kill the winner to get it.

#23 Posted by Clonedzero (4200 posts) -

Ohhhh, that'll leave a scar!

#24 Posted by development (2252 posts) -

@marokai: Wait. You mean to tell me it says that after you kill Pate? I killed Creighton and it said the exact same thing, although I'm not 100 percent sure it was Pate's voice. Could have been a glitch.

And that's an interesting tidbit about the armor saying it's an imitation. That sounds like From's way of telling us that Cale was indeed wrong. "Cray" also vaguely sounds like "Pate." Also, Creighton's armor says "Creighton the Wanderer." "Mild-Mannered Pate," on the other hand, sounds like the nickname of a straight pyschopath. Also also, remember that, no matter who you kill, the crazy merchant lady will sell you their armor.

#25 Edited by Turambar (6739 posts) -

@mosespippy said:

@turambar said:

Only one of those two is a an actual serial killer that broke out of jail.

Also, guys, what has the souls game taught you about people with creepy laughs that you free from a cell?

That if I keep them alive long enough then it'll pay off in the end.

Yurt never pays.

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#26 Posted by Turambar (6739 posts) -

I killed Creighton because the cartographer told me about the serial killer from Mirrah, but I instantly regretted it. The helmet you get after killing him says that "it looks like an imitation". He was probably not the one the cartographer was thinking about. If I play the game again, I'm definitely taking out Pate.

Still, really impressed by this questline. Mixing the Patches character and the NPC killer-like character and making you choose between too very untrustworthy characters(that still both seem nicer than their counterparts) made it hard to make a decision.


The Mephisto counterpart on the other hand is straight up psychotic in this game.

Online
#27 Edited by Shirogane (3569 posts) -

The game makes you think Creighton is the psychopath convincted and escaped murderer, but he's probably not, though he might be a bit of a psycho. Cale says stuff about a guy from Mirrah whose name is Cray-something that he saw and was supposed an escaped killer. However, he also says that he saw the guy's face. Three things to note here, Creighton claims to be from Mirrah but his armor says otherwise, he's probably pretending to be from Mirrah. Cale could not have seen Creighton's face because he wears a mask that completely hides it. And lastly, Cale is kinda crazy, so anything he says should be taken with a grain of salt. Another thing to note is that Pate has a Ring of Thorns, which totally sounds like something a murderer would wear. Then again, during his first encounter he says something about having somebody's ring, so who does that ring really belong to? As for the trap and the voice after you activate it, i'm not sure if that's Pate or Creighton.

#28 Posted by JackSukeru (5910 posts) -

I sided with Creighton without hesitation because I'd trust a straightforward, emotional guy over an ambiguous, "mild-mannered" one any day. Then he still ended up betraying me for some reason...pretty great. Sounds like they were both bad, that works I guess. I got his armor and the loot, and the trap didn't kill me so I don't have a lot to complain about anyway.

Either way it's been the most interesting character thing I've come across on the game. When I realized that "Wait, Pate is like a possibly very subtle Patches and that guy was in a cell I unlocked" my mind was blown. Seeing them mixing the old Dark and Demon's tropes was really entertaining.

#29 Edited by GasparNolasco (363 posts) -

I think Pate is the "good guy". Or at least he's good to you. Maybe he is kind of a douchbag, telling you about treasure that's dangerous to get, but he does help as a white phantom with the Last Giant fight, while Cray just sits around mumbling like a serial killer every time you find him.

But yeah, I killed both in Tseldorah... Craighton first, though.

#30 Posted by GasparNolasco (363 posts) -

@development: LOL. Whoever loses, the little old merchant lady always wins.

#31 Edited by MiniPato (2732 posts) -

How the fuck could you guys betray the man who gave you the white soul soapstone? The fuck did Creighton ever do for you guys huh? Did he ever warn you about an ambush? Did he ever volunteer his help with a boss? Did he ever give you a goddamn thing? No. Fuck a Creighton!

And once I killed Creighton, I killed Pate for his spear, ring, and armor. I'd like to think Pate/Patches would have done the same. I do great honor to his lineage.

Also Creighton saying that Pate kills for fun is just him projecting. Pate kills for loot, Creighton kills for fun.

#32 Posted by Choi (540 posts) -

I killed them both, even before the fight. Only two NPCs I killed in the game.

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#33 Edited by Humanity (9056 posts) -

@minipato: When have you ever seen Creighton kill?! #freecreighton

#34 Edited by Karkarov (3071 posts) -

How many of you actually "listened" to Pate though and didn't just say "Hey he is like Patches!" and project that on him? He tells you going into the gated area in the forest of the giants locks you in, it is not a trap, he is very honest about what happens if you go in. He even mentions he hopes his old partner made it out alive when you visit him again. In Earthen Peak he tells you there is treasure but it is dangerous and he doesn't want to risk it. Again... he was 100% upfront and doesn't try to backstab you when you get the loot. Heck at this point if you DID summon him for the giant fight he even gives you his armor set. He also does talk about Creighton in that he says someone is out to kill him, he just doesn't know who it is. Now does the chest at the end have a little surprise in it after he gives you the key? Yes. The same surprise is still there if you side with Creighton by the way in which case Creighton claims it is his house not Pates.

Creighton meanwhile actually trapped himself in the Huntsman's Copse while trying to trap Pate so he could kill him..... He straight up volunteers this info, he was never trapped by Pate. Add in that at this point Cale will tell you of an infamous killer he heard about in Jugo who pretended to be a knight named Cray something. Cray sounds a lot like Creighton and guess what he is wearing.... imitation armor meant to look like the kind used by Knight's from Jugo. HMMMMMMMM. Then when you meet him in the Shaded Woods he claims to almost mistake you for Pate and was about to attack you???? Seriously? Do I look Bald? Do I have a spear? I don't look a damn thing like Pate! Then he proceeds to laugh in a psychotic way that makes Navlaan in Hollow Form seem cheery and reaffirms he is planning to murder Pate at Tseldora Cove which is where he tracked him.

Then the ultimate nail in the coffin of who is the bad guy happens when you meet them at the Cove. If you listen closely they are actually arguing when you get there. Pate is asking "What about all our memories adventuring together? Why are you trying to kill me, we were friends?!" and Creighton basically responds with something along the lines of "I am no friend of yours DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE". So the motivations are pretty obvious, Creighton just straight up wants to murder someone, Pate is a chicken who wants someone else to risk it but doesn't demand compensation or finders fees. Who of those two guys actually sounds like a worse person? Which of then gives you an item used to COOPERATE with other people? Which of them never actually needs help but is always mostly nice and gives you stuff? Which of them did you save from their own trap like a retard and thanks you by accidentally thinking you were someone else and almost attacking you?

So if you killed Pate you are either seriously suffering from Patches hatred, or you really wanted Creighton's armor for free.

Personally I helped Pate kill the blatantly sadistic loon Creighton. Then I saw Pate give me his back and realized how much he looked like Patches and had to indulge some catharsis.

#35 Posted by Dethfish (3646 posts) -

My decision was easy. I liked Creighton's voice better so I helped him. It was as simple as that really.

Pate was kind of boring anyways. He also seemed like one of those sneaky conniving types who try and make you think they're good when they're actually up to some shady shit. Even his name is meant to fool you. I ain't fallin' for it.

#36 Edited by cloudymusic (1105 posts) -

I killed Pate because of his line of dialog in Earthen Peak about "trust can be a very dangerous thing." Shady motherfucker.

But yeah, both of them are probably evil to some degree, so you just need to choose who you feel to be (literally) the lesser of two evils.

#37 Posted by ttocs (763 posts) -

I'm Team Edward because...

...wait, wrong forum.

#38 Edited by gaminghooligan (1436 posts) -

Creighton was more than likely wearing someone else's armor and also I didn't like the way Pate let me do all the hard work in Earthen Peak. I killed Pate and got Creighton's armor for it. #freecreighton

#39 Posted by mpgeist (597 posts) -

I killed Pate and then Creighton accused me of being Pate's friend and now I cant get the key from him. Pretty lame. I should just kill Creighton too.

#40 Posted by ttocs (763 posts) -

@mpgeist said:

I killed Pate and then Creighton accused me of being Pate's friend and now I cant get the key from him. Pretty lame. I should just kill Creighton too.

Were you able to loot anything from Pate? Did he drop any items?

#41 Posted by Mezmero (1871 posts) -

Since the event was being foreshadowed early on I was initially going to kill Pate. The reason being that Lucatiel of Mirrah mentions that she has a brother who is a great swordsman and I thought that may be Creighton. It probably wasn't because as it turns out he uses an axe. I spoke with the cartographer and found out that Creighton was a killer so ultimately I sided with Pate against him. Pate doesn't seem like a bad dude, more like an opportunistic coward. That's how a good treasure hunter should be. Either way their equipment was all useless for my magic build so I didn't get much out of the event other than it being one of those neat little side stories in a Souls game.

#42 Posted by mpgeist (597 posts) -

@ttocs: Yes i got his ring and his spear. I tried equipping the ring and talking to Creighton and that didnt do anything either. He just keeps telling me to jog off, lol.

#43 Posted by Scratch (628 posts) -
@mpgeist said:

I killed Pate and then Creighton accused me of being Pate's friend and now I cant get the key from him. Pretty lame. I should just kill Creighton too.

Well you probably summoned Pate for one of the bosses. That makes Creighton suspicious of your loyalty. Killing him will get you the key and his armor.

#44 Edited by Evilsbane (4595 posts) -

I think Pate is the "good guy". Or at least he's good to you. Maybe he is kind of a douchbag, telling you about treasure that's dangerous to get, but he does help as a white phantom with the Last Giant fight, while Cray just sits around mumbling like a serial killer every time you find him.

But yeah, I killed both in Tseldorah... Craighton first, though.

Yea I have to agree I found Pate to be the lesser of two evils, He warned me about stuff, gave me a ring, a soapstone, and was always polite wishing me well on my journey and when you decide the winner he seemed pleased with me and no even Heh Heh Hehs....

#45 Edited by Demoskinos (14770 posts) -

So where is Creighton in Shaded woods?

#46 Posted by Scratch (628 posts) -

@demoskinos: Near the central bonfire (Ruined Fork Road) where there are three potential paths to take. He's up the stairs near one of the paths.

#47 Posted by notlupus (45 posts) -

I just killed Pate then Creighton was being rude so I killed him as well. You can buy both of their sets from a merchant at the hub then.

#48 Edited by Yummylee (21509 posts) -
@hamborgini said:

The outcome is the same regardless. They are both assholes.

Ayup, they both even say the exact same ''That'll leave a scar'' remark. Though Pate at least does actually help out a few times, be it with information or actually fighting alongside you against The Last Giant. As such I killed Creighton my first time. Plus, Pate's voiced by Peter Serafinowicz, so fuck yeah I'm siding with that guy! Least on my first playthrough.

@notlupus said:

I just killed Pate then Creighton was being rude so I killed him as well. You can buy both of their sets from a merchant at the hub then.

Both Pate & Creighton will you give their armour set anyway. Pate will give it you in Earthen Peak should he survive the fight against The Last Giant, and Creighton will give his to you if you talk to him after killing Pate.

Though weirdly enough they both give you a key to the same room with the bomb... Pate will say it's his home I think, whereas Creighton calls it his hideout. I wonder if they're supposed to act as some sort of jekyll and hyde analogy, with the smooth talking Pate and the more brutish Creighton -- both equally as sinister, but one is more overt about it than the other. Then again I suppose Jekyll is often portrayed as a kind man who can't control his 'evil side', whereas Pate seems like he's fully in control of his intentions.

#49 Edited by iank13 (1 posts) -

Where the hell do they go after you open the chest in the locked door? I was mad and wanted to kill pate for almost killing me so i wanna know

#50 Edited by Scratch (628 posts) -

@iank13: If you've already opened the chest and taken the loot then you're out of luck. They disappear permanently from the game after you've taken the treasure. You could have killed him after you'd received the key and he was still standing in the room. If you're looking to get his armor or other stuff, one of the merchants in Majula will sell them to you.