#1 Posted by Tobako (75 posts) -

I want this game to be everything DaS1 was and beyond but please tell me I'm wrong and seeing things... DaS1 was a pretty game imo very satisfying graphically and graphics are not important until off course they break the game's atmosphere, I'm now coming to a definite conclusion that the gameplay they've been showing us is perhaps a whole different build, I'm terribly disappointed after comparing these two videos, the first is a 12min reveal that looks visually at the same level as the mirror knight excerpt, here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_JFDPCtXFY , now the second is a piece of gameplay footage from the actual release that's coming, the very beginning showcases what seems to be the same area but very much changed(for the worse), look here and damn what a difference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6TMj5l4k1Q textures look awful, lightning looks terrible and much of that dark toned atmosphere seems to be gone out the window and I'm too damn disappointed with this shit... it looks like a pc to console port gone very wrong in terms of visuals. I feel like FROM is trolling me to the highest level, this looks NOTHING like what they've been showing and making me believe to be what the final game looks like.

#2 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@tobako: You are not wrong: A lot of people complain about the graphics already. Just wait how the PC version turns out and play that one

I've been playing the game for about 20 hours now, on PS3. Some thoughts:

-The game noticeably lacks lighting in a lot of areas. There are lots of dark/underground/gloomy areas that have no ambient lighting at all and it looks incredibly jarring.

-There are dynamic lights in the game, but they are relatively few and far between (the screenshots someone posted above highlight some of these areas) and often feature very low-res shadows and wonky framerates.

-There is a pretty aggressive ambient occlusion technique being used that yields mixed results. It looks good on objects/bodies on the ground, but makes grass and a lot of indoor areas look really weird. It's also caused some framerate issues for me.

-Even in areas with better lighting, the game looks nothing like the demo videos.

-The torch system appears to be dynamic and looks pretty excellent with a torch equipped or when standing next to a sconce, but it also causes pretty dramatic framerate dips, especially in areas that have other light sources.

-This is just a personal thing I noted, but it seems like there are fewer specular shaders in this than in DkS1. Armor has them and I've seen them when I've had oil thrown at me, but other than that they seem pretty sparse.

One impression for example:

#3 Posted by freakin9 (1111 posts) -

From what I've seen there are areas that look fantastic and areas that look pretty dull, to the point of looking like the time spent on the areas that look good wasn't spent everywhere. Though maybe they want you to carry torches around everywhere to give everything cool lighting effects. All that really tells me though is they aren't pushing the xbox and ps3 as far as I first thought. We'll see with the pc version.

#4 Edited by Sammo21 (3251 posts) -

So what you're telling me is Dark Souls 2 is a 'souls' game? You realize those games already have problems with framerate and you want them to push graphics harder? You're crazy, mang.

Like @freakin9 said, there are areas that looks and there are areas that did not. Dark Souls and Demons Souls both had the same thing: areas that looked great and areas that didn't. If all you are worried about is graphics then maybe... Souls games aren't for you?

#5 Posted by HeyGuys (345 posts) -

@darji said:

@tobako: You are not wrong: A lot of people complain about the graphics already. Just wait how the PC version turns out and play that one

I've been playing the game for about 20 hours now, on PS3. Some thoughts:

-The game noticeably lacks lighting in a lot of areas. There are lots of dark/underground/gloomy areas that have no ambient lighting at all and it looks incredibly jarring.

-There are dynamic lights in the game, but they are relatively few and far between (the screenshots someone posted above highlight some of these areas) and often feature very low-res shadows and wonky framerates.

-There is a pretty aggressive ambient occlusion technique being used that yields mixed results. It looks good on objects/bodies on the ground, but makes grass and a lot of indoor areas look really weird. It's also caused some framerate issues for me.

-Even in areas with better lighting, the game looks nothing like the demo videos.

-The torch system appears to be dynamic and looks pretty excellent with a torch equipped or when standing next to a sconce, but it also causes pretty dramatic framerate dips, especially in areas that have other light sources.

-This is just a personal thing I noted, but it seems like there are fewer specular shaders in this than in DkS1. Armor has them and I've seen them when I've had oil thrown at me, but other than that they seem pretty sparse.

One impression for example:

Could you perhaps cite this impression?

#6 Posted by Sterling (2144 posts) -

You people are insane.

#7 Edited by Tobako (75 posts) -

@heyguys: What he says makes total sense after you do a comparison like I did with the videos posted above, you just have to compare the beginning of each video, in the 12min reveal the footage starts at 00:37. That area with the salamander like creatures in the second video(final release) looks so stale in comparison to early footage it's unbelievable.

#8 Edited by AltonBrown (949 posts) -

Ugh.

#9 Posted by TheBlue (328 posts) -

Wow, I'm really glad I never get worked up about graphics in games. Ya'll are crazy. Wait for the PC port. I'm sure someone will make a mod to make look as amazing as you want it to be.

#10 Edited by Neonie (438 posts) -

@tobako: He asked you to cite the impression (as in give a source of where those words you posted came from), not to jump and avoid citing it entirely by saying "just go watch the video."

#11 Posted by HeyGuys (345 posts) -

@tobako said:

@heyguys: What he says makes total sense after you do a comparison like I did with the videos posted above, you just have to compare the beginning of each video, in the 12min reveal the footage starts at 00:37. That area with the salamander like creatures in the second video(final release) looks so stale in comparison to early footage it's unbelievable.

It's not that I doubt someone said that, it's just that I thought they might like credit for their words.

#12 Posted by Tobako (75 posts) -

Some of you saying graphics don't matter, did you even look at the videos? It's not as much about graphics but about a huge chunk of the atmosphere being taken off the game and they're not selling the same product they've been advertising.

#13 Edited by cloudymusic (1099 posts) -

@darji said:

it seems like there are fewer specular shaders

Well, game is ruined. Pack it in, everyone.

While I appreciate games that look nice, graphics are the last thing I care about in a Souls game. I'd play the game at 480p if it came down to it. Hell, Demon's Souls looks awful from a technical perspective in most ways.

#14 Posted by TruthTellah (8721 posts) -

Sure, why not?

I can understand pre-ordering a much-hyped game like this, but really, pre-ordering is always risky. Unless the pre-order bonuses are really stuff you want, I'd say wait until after release. Or wait until the PC version if you're really concerned.

I'm guessing it's coming in a little hot like the previous Souls games. It'll get patched and be fine. But if you want to wait until a version you know is working well, probably just hang in there for a while.

Online
#15 Posted by benspyda (2032 posts) -

Feel free to miss out on one the best games of the year, that's entirely up to you.

#16 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@heyguys: sorry forgot to do that. There is a whole thread about the changes on neogaf and that is where this Impression comes from^^

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=103754534&postcount=578

But the whole thread is worth reading with a ton of pictures of or videos from previous builds etc. Not much of a spoiler if you have seen the video material so far. for example there seems to be nothing is the game that looks like that on consoles. Maybe on the PC but who knows.

#17 Edited by Zeik (2341 posts) -

I guess I'm glad I've been avoiding coverage of the game, as I have no presumptions of what the game should look like. Playing the PS3 beta was my most extensive look at the game, and I was more than content with what I saw there.

Preview footage is very often not an accurate portrayal of the final product. I would think more people would know that by now.

Online
#18 Posted by MrHadouken (168 posts) -

I couldn't give two shits about graphics, all I want to know is if the whole game -on consoles- is going to play like blighttown or not?!?

#19 Posted by Neonie (438 posts) -

I would also like to point to everyone that day one patches for games are a thing and everyone is grudging up these opinions that the graphics are horrible before day 1 because some people got the game early. Now whether or not the graphics will be fixed or remain the same after day 1 I don't know, but jumping to conclusions of what a game will look like before it's even released seems very flaky to me.

That being said, if you want to cancel your pre-order then you should do it. Wait until the game is out, look at videos of the game after it's release on day 1, read reviews and pay attention to the atmosphere and graphics portions. Take into the account person who is reviewing the game and see if they feel the same way about this stuff as you do, and make an educated decision on whether or not you should spend your money your the game. But DON'T judge things about a game when you don't even know if this is a build release. If you are going to make an educated decision, then make the most educated decision possible, not an "on the fly because I feel it's not worth it" one.

#20 Edited by Tobako (75 posts) -

@neonie: What? How can I cite the impression if I'm not the one who wrote that comment? I just said look at the videos because the difference is very obvious.

#21 Posted by slyspider (1186 posts) -

I have given up self control and will buy the game 2 times anyway, one on ps3 and one on PC

#22 Posted by development (2219 posts) -

I always figured the footage they were showing was from the PC build. It just didn't look possible, especially considering the developer's history with the franchise. So this isn't very surprising to me at all. I expect framerate chugs. I expect some ugly things here and there. It's got flowy capes so that's all I care about.

#23 Edited by Neonie (438 posts) -
#24 Edited by Marokai (2861 posts) -

I don't know what it is about the way characters move in this game, but it still bugs me. It just looks off somehow.

#25 Edited by VeggiesBro (120 posts) -

Yeah, i'd love for this to be on next-gen consoles as opposed to previous gen for this very reason. That may come to pass, and if it does, I will be buying it.

If you are concerned about the game and its graphical fidelity, then cancel your pre-order and check out every bit of non-spoiler content on the internet that you can to help you figure out if it's worth your purchase or not. Alternatively, you could always wait for the PC release.

#26 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@development: It seems that is not the only reason. Actually they seemed to change the game play as well. For example in the first Video you had to use a torch. In the final game there is no need for a torch at all. Which is for me the biggest bummer to be honest.

First video:

The same scene in the retail version

This looks like a pretty huge difference

#27 Posted by Tobako (75 posts) -
@neonie said:

I would also like to point to everyone that day one patches for games are a thing and everyone is grudging up these opinions that the graphics are horrible before day 1 because some people got the game early. Now whether or not the graphics will be fixed or remain the same after day 1 I don't know, but jumping to conclusions of what a game will look like before it's even released seems very flaky to me.

That being said, if you want to cancel your pre-order then you should do it. Wait until the game is out, look at videos of the game after it's release on day 1, read reviews and pay attention to the atmosphere and graphics portions. Take into the account person who is reviewing the game and see if they feel the same way about this stuff as you do, and make an educated decision on whether or not you should spend your money your the game. But DON'T judge things about a game when you don't even know if this is a build release. If you are going to make an educated decision, then make the most educated decision possible, not an "on the fly because I feel it's not worth it" one.

Most likely what I'm going to do but the people who are posting these videos are people who got a final copy of the game that already is in stores ready to be released or so they all claim... btw that thread at neogaf scares the shit out of me after looking just at the first page, I'm thinking WTF happened to the graphics engine? almost looks like they swapped it on mistake for a very early build and the more I look the more disappointed I feel, I think it's not asking too much just for graphics on par with DaS1, when the game is coming out couple years after and they have more money to do it.

#28 Posted by Neonie (438 posts) -

@tobako: The thing is though, the "final copy" is only theoretical anymore. A graphical improvement patch come a day or week after the game is out. the Souls games have always been a bit iffy with the frame-rate, and the preview build lighting and graphics may have been causing issues they are currently working on fixing. A "final build" or "final copy" only matters in terms of "does the game work and is it in a playable state." Even the people reviewing the game may not currently be playing the game in it's graphical final state right now.

I could of course also be completely wrong and maybe this absolutely is how the game will look on consoles and a lot of the preview build stuff is how it will look on PC. OR maybe the preview stuff is all bullshit. Who knows but From really? So yeah, "wait and see" seems like a good plan.

#29 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@neonie: SO you kind of believe that you get a patch with better textures, real time shadows, better lighting and so on? Man I wish I could still dream like that. Not gonna happen. And I realy hope this is just the console Version that looks like that....

Edit: Even the demo looked way better than the retail version WTF

#30 Edited by MB (12202 posts) -

This game is tons of fun and I think the console version looks fine. Skip it if you want to, I guess?

Moderator
#31 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@mb: But it destroys also a lot of atmosphere. The game is fun "Excuse" does not hold much weight when even the game play is changing because of this.

#32 Edited by Dezztroy (787 posts) -

@tobako: All the promotional footage is probably from the PC version, for obvious reasons. It's also possible they couldn't get the game running at acceptable levels the way they had it setup previously and had to cut corners. Then again, From hasn't been concerned with framerates in the past.

@neonie: Technical issues that also concern the game's design are not something you simply patch.

@sammo21 said:

So what you're telling me is Dark Souls 2 is a 'souls' game? You realize those games already have problems with framerate and you want them to push graphics harder? You're crazy, mang.

Dark Souls doesn't have framerate problems because it's a graphical powerhouse. It runs bad because From are bad developers when it comes to technical issues.

#33 Edited by horseman6 (385 posts) -

If you don't play Dark Souls 2 because you think the graphics aren't as good as what's been shown in demos, maybe you shouldn't be playing Souls games. Dark Souls and Demon Souls aren't exactly amazing looking games.

#34 Edited by MB (12202 posts) -

@darji: so don't buy it.

The frame rate is absolutely fine, if they had to make concessions on the visuals in order to get the game to run smoothly on consoles, then good on them.

Moderator
#35 Posted by golguin (3868 posts) -

This thread as convinced me to snap my Dark Souls 1 disk and throw my 360 in the garbage. Thanks From Software.

#36 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@mb: No I will either wait for the PC version and if this is on the same Level, which I really do not hope, than I will wait for mods. But yeah "blame" the people who actually want a better game. I am sorry to destroy your world but graphics matter in terms of atmosphere. They matter a lot in such games like Dark Souls.

#37 Posted by Aetheldod (3542 posts) -

Saw a prt of the vids .... over reaction much? Also ... now I wont claim that it will look as amazing as the reveal demo (because of course it was only a slice spiced up to its maxium because then it wouldnt be a resource hog unlike the final version with everything included) , but it doesnt looks as terrible as you are making it out to be , also could it be that the uploader turned up brightness to its maxium in order for not to use the torch? Anyway it looked just as both Demon´s and Dark Souls always does.

#39 Posted by Counterclockwork87 (650 posts) -

If you don't play Dark Souls 2 because you think the graphics aren't as good as what's been shown in demos, maybe you shouldn't be playing Souls games. Dark Souls and Demon Souls aren't exactly amazing looking games.

I think Dark Souls is a pretty fantastic looking. I've also only played in on PC, but that game looks incredible.

#40 Posted by MB (12202 posts) -

@darji: They matter to you - learn to separate fact from opinion, dude.

I sincerely hope you're not going to start some misguided crusade to get people to side with your opinion about Dark Souls 2. If you're not going to buy it, that's fine, but I really don't want to see you popping into every Souls topic and going on and on about the "build differences" and how bad the game is.

Moderator
#41 Edited by kishinfoulux (2277 posts) -

I'm getting really tired of this bait and switch shit. I'm hoping the PC version, at the very least, looks like what we originally saw.

If you don't play Dark Souls 2 because you think the graphics aren't as good as what's been shown in demos, maybe you shouldn't be playing Souls games. Dark Souls and Demon Souls aren't exactly amazing looking games.

I dunno. They aren't graphical powerhouses, but I'd say they look pretty damn good.

#42 Edited by Tobako (75 posts) -

@dezztroy: People who played it on E3 seem pretty sure they played it on a PS3... I wouldn't count on a pc version looking that much better, I wish though. I'm still browsing that thread on neogaf that darji posted and it's impossible to overlook this at least for me, the screens and gameplay footage are out there and it's obvious that the game went through a huge downgrade in the graphics department even still people are talking about bad frame rate issues, this feels like a fucking nightmare.

#43 Posted by Mcfart (1596 posts) -

@tobako said:

I want this game to be everything DaS1 was and beyond but please tell me I'm wrong and seeing things... DaS1 was a pretty game imo very satisfying graphically and graphics are not important until off course they break the game's atmosphere, I'm now coming to a definite conclusion that the gameplay they've been showing us is perhaps a whole different build, I'm terribly disappointed after comparing these two videos, the first is a 12min reveal that looks visually at the same level as the mirror knight excerpt, here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_JFDPCtXFY , now the second is a piece of gameplay footage from the actual release that's coming, the very beginning showcases what seems to be the same area but very much changed(for the worse), look here and damn what a difference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6TMj5l4k1Q textures look awful, lightning looks terrible and much of that dark toned atmosphere seems to be gone out the window and I'm too damn disappointed with this shit... it looks like a pc to console port gone very wrong in terms of visuals. I feel like FROM is trolling me to the highest level, this looks NOTHING like what they've been showing and making me believe to be what the final game looks like.

The graphics are fine. No better or worse then DS1. What did you expect from them? They have proven they aren't technically competent with Blighttown FPS drops in a graphically mediocre game and a HORRIBLE PC port (before 3rd party fixes).

The gameplay is what matters.

#44 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@mb: Also Graphics matter to a lot of people not only me. Maybe you are even in the minority of people who thinks Graphics do not matter? Look how the GB staff for example always talks about how annoying a bad frame rate is how how bad these textures are since they actually switched more to the PC

Let me quote some comparison:

The top picture perfectly conveys a feeling of adventure and of heading into the dangerous unknown in search of treasure.

The bottom picture perfectly represents the feeling of having to go fetch a bottle of wine from your rich uncle's boring old wine cellar.

So yeah what sounds more atmospheric and interesting?

And for the last part: I never did that with any game and I will never do that with this game either. This is a technical thread nothing else. If you want to go into a thread how great the game is be my guest. If I want to talk about gameplay, I will talk about gameplay. But this here has not much to do with gameplay except they changed it quite a bit with this bad lighting.

Look I love this series. I loved it way before this whole boom started. Maybe that is why I want the best possible game for this series.

#45 Edited by Gruebacca (510 posts) -

All Souls games look like that. Don't worry, it'll be fine. Graphics aren't the main point of Souls games, anyway. I'd rather not have the frame rate go to shit than the most beautiful visuals all the time every time. Yeah, it's a shame some areas don't look like they have proper (let alone good) lighting, but this isn't limited to just Dark Souls 2.

I'm sure when the series jumps to the new generation that everything will be hunky dory again.

#46 Edited by development (2219 posts) -

@darji said:

Edit: Even the demo looked way better than the retail version WTF

Wait. Is this real? I'm not gonna watch those videos you posted or go searching for more screenshots, because I don't want anything else spoiled, but why the hell would the demo look amazing, while the final release doesn't? That second pic... wow. I'll admit, it certainly looks more like the Dark Souls I know than the top pic.

@mb I donno, man. He's roping me in! Look at that difference. Hey, you have the game. Is it really as bad as pic #2 looks? I'm gonna buy it tomorrow regardless, but I'm curious.

edit: also, I'm assuming by "demo" they mean "beta." If not, then sure I expected downgrades from whatever build they were demoing way back in the day.

#47 Edited by VioleGrace (45 posts) -

Sorry but are you people stupid ?? in terms of graphics the game is way better than Ds1 , ofcourse it's not a graphical powerhorse ,that's because Demon souls , Ds1 and ds2 focuses more in the gameplay rather than graphics , but i will admit that alot of stuff has changed since the beta , some monsters ( that axe throwing dwarf for example ) is not in the same spot anymore , but still...

two things that i don't really like about Ds2 so far :

1 - the ability to travel between bonfires early in the game ( it's good that it speeds things up , but i liked to walk alot in order to reach some places )

2 - after you kill same monsters for certain amount of times , these monsters stop spawning ( the good thing about this is that it limits the amount of souls a person can get from each area , which makes the game harder , but it also makes it easy to go across these areas later on since there won't be any monsters and it will look like an abandoned area... )

but regardless , if you enjoy dark souls then you shouldn't cancel your preorder , because the game is awesome and you will definitely regret doing that :)

btw , if you are so desperate want better looking lightning and very dark areas that you have to use a torch , turn down the brightness xD

#48 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@development: It seems so. Unless of course they will release a HUGE patch on the release date. Look at the neogaf thread I posted before. There are no spoilers in it just a discussion and tons of comparisons like that one.

#49 Posted by Neonie (438 posts) -

@darji: "SO you kind of believe that you get a patch with better textures, real time shadows, better lighting and so on? Man I wish I could still dream like that. Not gonna happen. And I really hope this is just the console Version that looks like that...."

I don't believe anything, I was just tossing around theories.

Also it doesn't matter to me what the console version looks like since I'm getting it for PC :P

#50 Posted by development (2219 posts) -

@marokai said:

I don't know what it is about the way characters move in this game, but it still bugs me. It just looks off somehow.

They seem to lack the correct kind of "bounce." I haven't played it yet, so it might feel better than it looks. Not a big deal, but yeah it's weird.