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#1 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -

The Imp from Doom is a species not a specific character.....a concept page should be created in its place.

#2 Edited by Praxis (261 posts) -

Hey, I totally brought this up like seven months ago, though it was derailed by a lengthy debate about whether or not Handel's Messiah is an ill-conceived page. Since you've given me a convenient excuse to dredge up my former requests, I would like to throw in that the Spider Mastermind should be a concept page, since it appears multiple times throughout Doom / Doom II / Final Doom. Also, we need to either strictly delineate what the two Cyberdemon pages exist for (i.e., is the character page for Doom 3, and the concept page for everything else?) or just delete one of them, as having both pages attached to the same games as they are now serves no purpose.

And while we're on the topic of id, the Dopefish should be a concept. It is a species of fish within the Commander Keen universe, not a unique character. I realize that most people are only familiar with the dopefish through its easter egg appearances, so here is a screen of two dopefish appearing at once for those who might need convincing:

#3 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -


Yeah most people don't realize that Dopefish is actually a species (and they're fucking huge compared to commander keen), so a concept page should be created for Dopefish.....however, maybe the Dopefish character page could stay for its appearance as an easter egg?

I think the main argument with the Spider Mastermind is if the Spider Mastermind fought at the end of the Inferno episode of Doom is a specific Spider Mastermind....In the original Doom it was simply referred to as the Spiderdemon, and I'm not an expert on the Doom storyline but I believe the Spiderdemon fought in the original Doom was responsible for the invasion of Earth and acted as the leader.....whether or not that warrants a separate character page is debatable, personally I'm not sure.....One thing I'm sure about is the a Spider Mastermind concept page should be created because, as you said, there are multiple Spider Masterminds.....and if we keep the character page it should be renamed Spiderdemon.

For the Cyberdemon page, I agree with what you're saying.....the Doom 3 Cyberdemon should have a separate character page (all other games attached to the character page should be deleted and the article should be re-written for the specific Doom 3 Cyberdemon) and the concept page should be for the Cyberdemon's found in the rest of the series.

#4 Edited by Praxis (261 posts) -

So, as it turns out, there actually is a Spider Mastermind concept page, it just doesn't have Spider Mastermind as an alias. I understand the argument for having a Spiderdemon character page, and I guess some might call this a Pikachu / Pikachu situation where having both is fine, but having two Pikachu pages is justifiable precisely because there are identifiable characteristics that separate one particular Pikachu from all others, whereas every Spiderdemon looks and behaves exactly like the last. Maintaining a separate page simply because of a single sentence in the post-game text crawl seems like an exercise in splitting hairs that is doomed (no pun intended) to end in something akin to the current situation, where both pages are attached to all games in the series simply because someone failed to grasp the minute distinction between the two.

As for having two Dopefish pages, I guess you could do that since many of the easter egg appearances reference "The Dopefish" rather than "A Dopefish," but in that case we're making an assumption that there is but a single Dopefish that appears in every game outside of Commander Keen. And even if we go that route, invariably someone would come along and attach Commander Keen 4 to the character page. Having one page just seems a whole lot simpler. Oh, and of course Dopefish are big. You have to be when your preferred diet is heroes. :P

#5 Posted by Marino (4736 posts) -

@Unknown_Pleasures: Character page is gone.

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