#1 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -

To my knowledge, there is no game that features a leveling system that does not inherently come with a level cap. This seems like a topic that could just be discussed on the Leveling Up page.

And seriously, are there any games that allow for infinite character levels?

#2 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

Borderlands 2 Badass levels. *Supposedly* 

#3 Posted by BeachThunder (12407 posts) -

Borderlands 2, as mentioned above, is one example. I'm sure I've encountered others; regardless, leveling up doesn't necessarily beget a level cap.

#4 Posted by Irvandus (2879 posts) -

@BeachThunder said:

Borderlands 2, as mentioned above, is one example. I'm sure I've encountered others; regardless, leveling up doesn't necessarily beget a level cap.

#5 Edited by believer258 (12182 posts) -

Not a level as in RPG levels, but Coded Arms technically has infinite first person shooter levels. If that can have infinite game levels, then why can't an RPG have infinite RPG levels?

Anyway, it's a concept that's in RPG's. However, since the vast majority of them (not all - Borderlands 2, as stated above), I would suggest that we have an "Infinite Levels" sort of page instead where we list the few exceptions to the rule instead of all of the games that do have a level cap. We still need to denote that in some fashion other than just a paragraph put in the "Leveling" page.

#6 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

Is there even a game that has infinite levels? I mean, wouldn't programming limits, well, limit how many levels you could have?

#7 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -

@BeachThunder said:

Borderlands 2, as mentioned above, is one example. I'm sure I've encountered others; regardless, leveling up doesn't necessarily beget a level cap.

But how does the level mechanic in Borderlands 2 actually work?

#8 Posted by SexyToad (2722 posts) -

I'm sure cod zombies doesn't have a level limit if that counts.

#9 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@SexyToad said:
I'm sure cod zombies doesn't have a level limit if that counts.
Read the page we are talking about. 
#10 Edited by BirdkeeperDan (400 posts) -

I believe you can gain infinite levels in Morrowind by going to jail to lower your main skills. I imagine if you go higher than an signed integer it would cause problems but otherwise there is no cap.

#11 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@Hailinel: Didn't Dungeons & Dragons: Heroes have no level cap, or am I unhinged?

Only other thing I could think of was Disgaea, but that does indeed cap at 9999.

#12 Posted by Genkkaku (738 posts) -

@BirdkeeperDan said:

I believe you can gain infinite levels in Morrowind by going to jail to lower your main skills. I imagine if you go higher than an signed integer it would cause problems but otherwise there is no cap.

Even so, the game still has a defined level cap of 80

#13 Posted by SexyToad (2722 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@SexyToad said:
I'm sure cod zombies doesn't have a level limit if that counts.
Read the page we are talking about.

It saids leveling up something. (usually a character.)

Well couldnt you level up the difficulty? I don't know, I'm tired.

#14 Edited by BirdkeeperDan (400 posts) -

@Genkkaku: Have you tested this? I think you max out at 77 if you don't reduce your main skills. Otherwise I'm pretty sure there is no hard level cap other than 655356

#15 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@SexyToad said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@SexyToad said:
I'm sure cod zombies doesn't have a level limit if that counts.
Read the page we are talking about.

It saids leveling up something. (usually a character.)

Well couldnt you level up the difficulty? I don't know, I'm tired.

I think it means more about level gained via exp. 
#16 Posted by Dagbiker (6978 posts) -

All games run by a computer has a limit based on memory, so there is always a Level Cap, always. It might not be viably reachable, but the game only allocates a limited amount of data to store that number, and once that is hit you can no longer keep counting. Even if you dynamically allocate memory based on how many levels you have, which is kinda dumb because that memory could be used for anything else like graphics, or AI, then levels are still limited by system memory.

#17 Posted by MrKlorox (11209 posts) -

Like Dagbiker mentioned, there is no such thing as limitless when it comes to things like this. What about changing it to low level cap, and defining it as say 50, 25, or lower. Hitting the level ceiling has definitely become more of a thing in recent games than stuff from 32 bit systems and before.

#18 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -

@MrKlorox said:

Like Dagbiker mentioned, there is no such thing as limitless when it comes to things like this. What about changing it to low level cap, and defining it as say 50, 25, or lower. Hitting the level ceiling has definitely become more of a thing in recent games than stuff from 32 bit systems and before.

That's only because games like Fallout 3 and such use a level progression system that's more heavily rooted in pen and paper games. In D&D, the level cap is 20, but it can take years and years and years for a party of level 1 characters to reach it.

There really is no such thing as a "standard" level cap in video games. Some go for twenty. Others stop at Level 99. Yet others are somewhere in between. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne allows players to be insane and level up to 255. MMOs routinely expand level caps with expansions.

#19 Posted by Demoskinos (15134 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@MrKlorox said:

Like Dagbiker mentioned, there is no such thing as limitless when it comes to things like this. What about changing it to low level cap, and defining it as say 50, 25, or lower. Hitting the level ceiling has definitely become more of a thing in recent games than stuff from 32 bit systems and before.

That's only because games like Fallout 3 and such use a level progression system that's more heavily rooted in pen and paper games. In D&D, the level cap is 20, but it can take years and years and years for a party of level 1 characters to reach it.

There really is no such thing as a "standard" level cap in video games. Some go for twenty. Others stop at Level 99. Yet others are somewhere in between. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne allows players to be insane and level up to 255. MMOs routinely expand level caps with expansions.

Pfft... 255 isn't insane now lvl 9999 in Disgaea 3 is insane. =p

#20 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

@Hailinel said:

@MrKlorox said:

Like Dagbiker mentioned, there is no such thing as limitless when it comes to things like this. What about changing it to low level cap, and defining it as say 50, 25, or lower. Hitting the level ceiling has definitely become more of a thing in recent games than stuff from 32 bit systems and before.

That's only because games like Fallout 3 and such use a level progression system that's more heavily rooted in pen and paper games. In D&D, the level cap is 20, but it can take years and years and years for a party of level 1 characters to reach it.

There really is no such thing as a "standard" level cap in video games. Some go for twenty. Others stop at Level 99. Yet others are somewhere in between. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne allows players to be insane and level up to 255. MMOs routinely expand level caps with expansions.

Pfft... 255 isn't insane now lvl 9999 in Disgaea 3 is insane. =p

Fair point. :P

#21 Posted by Genkkaku (738 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@Demoskinos said:

@Hailinel said:

@MrKlorox said:

Like Dagbiker mentioned, there is no such thing as limitless when it comes to things like this. What about changing it to low level cap, and defining it as say 50, 25, or lower. Hitting the level ceiling has definitely become more of a thing in recent games than stuff from 32 bit systems and before.

That's only because games like Fallout 3 and such use a level progression system that's more heavily rooted in pen and paper games. In D&D, the level cap is 20, but it can take years and years and years for a party of level 1 characters to reach it.

There really is no such thing as a "standard" level cap in video games. Some go for twenty. Others stop at Level 99. Yet others are somewhere in between. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne allows players to be insane and level up to 255. MMOs routinely expand level caps with expansions.

Pfft... 255 isn't insane now lvl 9999 in Disgaea 3 is insane. =p

Fair point. :P

I was gonna mention Demons/ Dark Souls 700+ but you win by leagues

#22 Edited by coaxmetal (1657 posts) -

I'd like to say that there are multiple games were progression scales asymptotically instead of being artificially capped, but I can't think of any at the moment. Regardless, the idea of leveling does not intrinsically entail a cap, so the idea of a cap as a concept remains valid.

e: actually that's the wrong word, since an asymptote would constitute a level cap, I guess I just mean infinitely.

#23 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Riboflavin:

But that's kinda the question, isn't it? Are there any games that allow infinite leveling? Is this even possible (computational limits and everything)?

#24 Posted by NyxFe (248 posts) -

@Riboflavin said:

I'd like to say that there are multiple games were progression scales asymptotically instead of being artificially capped, but I can't think of any at the moment. Regardless, the idea of leveling does not intrinsically entail a cap, so the idea of a cap as a concept remains valid.

e: actually that's the wrong word, since an asymptote would constitute a level cap, I guess I just mean infinitely.

@Video_Game_King said:

@Riboflavin:

But that's kinda the question, isn't it? Are there any games that allow infinite leveling? Is this even possible (computational limits and everything)?

As Video_Game_King mentioned, technically every piece of software has a hard limit somewhere, even if the limit is 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 (int64) or even using multiple variables. The question then becomes whether or not a hardware limitation counts as a level cap in the sense of a "game mechanic".

My personal stance would be that a cap is inherent to levelling in video games (in tabletop (e.g. D&D) you could get a lot farther... but eventually you reach numbers too large to express in the known universe, and when you're talking about levelling up your 10^100^100th level fighter, there are other issues to worry about.)

#25 Posted by Ravenlight (8011 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

But that's kinda the question, isn't it? Are there any games that allow infinite leveling? Is this even possible (computational limits and everything)?

Tetris, maybe? The limiting factor seems to be statistics more than computational limits, even though they do come into play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris#Possibility_of_indefinite_gameplay

#26 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Ravenlight:

Didn't an earlier version of the article state that computational limits would still come into play, since the speed would eventually become faster than a person could physically react to? And isn't that an entirely different concept of level than the one presented here?

#27 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -

@Ravenlight said:

@Video_Game_King said:

But that's kinda the question, isn't it? Are there any games that allow infinite leveling? Is this even possible (computational limits and everything)?

Tetris, maybe? The limiting factor seems to be statistics more than computational limits, even though they do come into play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris#Possibility_of_indefinite_gameplay

We're talking about character levels earned through experience points, not game levels.