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#1 Posted by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
#2 Edited by Underachiever007 (2468 posts) -

Agreed. This should be deleted.

#3 Posted by Jadeskye (4367 posts) -

no theres a retail standalone package of undead nightmare, it should remain.

#4 Posted by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
#5 Posted by CrimsonJesus (65 posts) -
@EuanDewar said:
" I thought it came out separately on a disk and didn't require the full game?  "
 
I'm pretty sure this is correct, it came with all the MP DLC as well IIRC.
#6 Posted by LordAndrew (14426 posts) -

It's DLC, which they later released on a disc. It doesn't magically become a game once its printed on a disc.

#7 Posted by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
@jadeskye said:
" no theres a retail standalone package of undead nightmare, it should remain. "
If that's true, it can stay... 
 
Shivering Isles can be deleted though. Even the box art on that page says "Content requires Oblivion" or something along those lines.
#8 Posted by EuanDewar (4892 posts) -
@StarFoxA: Shivering Isles required the full game, Awakening I can't comment on and Undead Nightmare was standalone and released on disk.
#9 Posted by Jadeskye (4367 posts) -
#10 Posted by LordAndrew (14426 posts) -

Okay, so apparently the retail version of Undead Nightmare does work without the game. Crazy.

#11 Edited by FlyingRat (1446 posts) -
@LordAndrew said:

" It's DLC, which they later released on a disc. It doesn't magically become a game once its printed on a disc. "

It does if the first game isn't required to play it.
 
Edit: Turns out you found that out 2 seconds before i posted this... :)
#12 Posted by Underachiever007 (2468 posts) -
@LordAndrew said:
" Okay, so apparently the retail version of Undead Nightmare does work without the game. Crazy. "
That is crazy.
#13 Posted by CrimsonJesus (65 posts) -

Also, Shivering Isles and Awakening are both expansion packs, if Diablo 2: LoD gets its own page, so should those two.

#14 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10910 posts) -
@Underachiever007 said:
" @LordAndrew said:
" Okay, so apparently the retail version of Undead Nightmare does work without the game. Crazy. "
That is crazy. "
No, RockStar did the same exact thing with the GTA IV DLC. There is precedent for this. 
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#15 Edited by Underachiever007 (2468 posts) -
@MooseyMcMan said:

" @Underachiever007 said:

" @LordAndrew said:
" Okay, so apparently the retail version of Undead Nightmare does work without the game. Crazy. "
That is crazy. "
No, RockStar did the same exact thing with the GTA IV DLC. There is precedent for this.  "
There was a retail version of the GTA IV DLC? That is news to me.
#16 Posted by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
@crimsonjesus said:
" Also, Shivering Isles and Awakening are both expansion packs, if Diablo 2: LoD gets its own page, so should those two. "
Well the rule is if it is released and doesn't require the main game to play, then it gets its own page. Shivering Isles does require Oblivion to play, so it shouldn't have a page. If the Diablo 2 expansion pack is standalone, then it can get a page.
#17 Posted by MetalBaofu (1374 posts) -
@MooseyMcMan said:

" @Underachiever007 said:

" @LordAndrew said:
" Okay, so apparently the retail version of Undead Nightmare does work without the game. Crazy. "
That is crazy. "
No, RockStar did the same exact thing with the GTA IV DLC. There is precedent for this.  "
Yup.   I rented both the Undead Nightmare collection and the GTA: Episodes from Liberty City discs from Gamefly.   Original game not needed to play, as already mentioned.
#18 Edited by drac96 (670 posts) -
@Underachiever007: Yeah, It's called Episodes From Liberty City
 
Edit: Huh, it even has a weirdly in depth page here on Giant Bomb. If that gets it then Undead Nightmare certainly should
#19 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4717 posts) -
@Underachiever007 said:
" @MooseyMcMan said:

" @Underachiever007 said:

" @LordAndrew said:
" Okay, so apparently the retail version of Undead Nightmare does work without the game. Crazy. "
That is crazy. "
No, RockStar did the same exact thing with the GTA IV DLC. There is precedent for this.  "
There was a retail version of the GTA IV DLC? That is news to me. "
Stories from Liberty City or something like that. LaD and BoGT. 
 
Undead Nightmare also is a standalone mulitplayer/single player expansion. Same for Awakening (console version).
#20 Posted by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
#21 Posted by LordAndrew (14426 posts) -

Shivering Isles is labelled as an expansion pack, while Knights of the Nine is a "downloadable content collection".

#22 Posted by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
@LordAndrew said:
" Shivering Isles is labelled as an expansion pack, while Knights of the Nine is a "downloadable content collection". "
Knights of the Nine definitely requires the main game, since it doesn't contain a new world (like Shivering Isles does). In Knights of the Nine, you're still exploring the same world as the main game, it just adds a new quest line. 
 
Shivering Isles isn't standalone, despite having a new world, since the entrance to that world is still within the main world.
#23 Posted by Fallen189 (4988 posts) -

All should stay except TES one. Undead nightmare was released standalone as retail, aswell as the rest

#24 Edited by MetalBaofu (1374 posts) -
@StarFoxA said:

" According to this decidedly sketchy GameSpot thread, Awakening isn't standalone, and can be deleted as well. "

I bought the Awakening disc for 360.  I put it in and play Awakening.  It didn't install anything or ask me to put the original game in that I can remember.  Now if you didn't buy the physical Awakening disc and got the download version, then I imagine you would need Origins to be able to play it.
#25 Posted by LordAndrew (14426 posts) -

I'm not arguing for Knights of the Nine, just explaining how it's considered different from Shiving Isles.

#26 Posted by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
@LordAndrew: Ah, I misunderstood.
#27 Posted by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
@metalhead87: If it's standalone on the disc, then it gets its own page. I'm seeing conflicting information, so I'm going to hold off on judgment.
#28 Posted by ZombiePie (5642 posts) -
@StarFoxA said:
" According to this decidedly sketchy GameSpot thread, Awakening isn't standalone, and can be deleted as well. "
Incorrect. Regardless of whether or not it is a standalone product there are host videos like Quick Looks and trailers attached to the wiki entry and is not open to being deleted.
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#29 Posted by OldGuy (1548 posts) -

I have the Awakening retail package for 360 sitting right here in front of me (I'm finishing a third playthru with a mage)... it does not require DA:O to be installed for you to play with the DA:O-A disc.
 
It does say "* Requires Dragon Age: Origins for Xbox 360 for downloadable content and full feature functionality." on the back of the box.

#30 Posted by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
@ZombiePie: Upon further investigation, I have found the PC version is not standalone, while the console versions are standalone. Only the Shivering Isles page needs to be deleted.
#31 Posted by MetalBaofu (1374 posts) -
@StarFoxA said:
" @metalhead87: If it's standalone on the disc, then it gets its own page. I'm seeing conflicting information, so I'm going to hold off on judgment. "
I just checked it.   When you put in the physical Awakening disc and click on "new game" this little menu comes up and basically asks what you want to play.  Choices being Origins, Awakening, and any DLC you have installed.  If you click Awakening then it goes to the "new character" or "import character" screen and you start playing.  Play it off the the physical disc from what I can tell.
#32 Posted by jakob187 (21663 posts) -

Undead Nightmare obviously doesn't need to be deleted. 
 
Awakening does not need to be deleted. 
 
Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine do. 
 
Diablo 2: LoD needs to be deleted, as it required Diablo 2 to play it without some form of modding and hacking to make it work without it.

#33 Posted by Kyreo (4600 posts) -
@jadeskye said:
" no theres a retail standalone package of undead nightmare, it should remain. "
I agree it should remain.  
#34 Edited by Spacetrucking (943 posts) -
@jakob187:  @StarFoxA:  
 
Expansions are rarely standalone but that doesn't disqualify them for a page. They are all retail products and make significant updates to the original game to require their own page. Trying to fit all that information in a single page is unwieldy. If you're deleting pages based on the standalone criteria alone, you should delete all the World of Warcraft, Guild Wars & Everquest expansions, Frozen Throne, Brood War,  Neverwinter Nights and NWN 2 expansions, Throne of Bhaal, Age of Empire expansions and so on and so forth.  
 
These are all major titles that sold more than a million copies by themselves. Yeah, let's not have a page for them. Good going!
 
General rule of the thumb should be: As long as a game/expansion has a retail release, it qualifies for its own page; irrespective of its dependencies. It's pretty much how wikipedia and mobygames work.
#35 Posted by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
@Killjoi: The rule is regarding downloadable content that has been released on a disc. Since there is a "DLC Add-Ons" section on game pages specifically for that. Expansion packs that were solely released in physical form are fine. As are DLC packs that are released as standalone physical discs.
#36 Edited by Spacetrucking (943 posts) -
@StarFoxA said:

" @Killjoi: The rule is regarding downloadable content that has been released on a disc. Since there is a "DLC Add-Ons" section on game pages specifically for that. Expansion packs that were solely released in physical form are fine. As are DLC packs that are released as standalone physical discs. "

Expansions are no longer released "solely" in physical form. Everything is downloadable now. Shivering Isles was the first of many. DLC packs are rarely standalone either.  
 
These retail releases are always big enough updates that they require their own page. Titles like Undead Nightmare or Awakening can be listed under DLC Addons section as well but deleting them for fear of redundancy is a myopic view of how the industry works these days.
#37 Posted by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
@Killjoi: It's not my call, but I'd say the thing that qualifies "game" pages to be "game" pages is being an actual game. Requiring another game to play it disqualifies it from being a "game." But again, I don't make the calls, it's up to one of the staff.
#38 Posted by Spacetrucking (943 posts) -
@StarFoxA said:
" @Killjoi: It's not my call, but I'd say the thing that qualifies "game" pages to be "game" pages is being an actual game. Requiring another game to play it disqualifies it from being a "game." But again, I don't make the calls, it's up to one of the staff. "
That's an odd stance to take when there are "games" like Cataclysm that require not one, not two but three prior games to play (Original WoW, Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King). Trying to fit all that information on a single page would be quite the task. 
 
Even Wikipedia, a database infamous for its stringent rules against superfluous pages, lists Undead Nightmare, Awakening and Shivering Isles separately. Why exactly are you so zealous about deleting these pages on GB, when they clearly serve a purpose ?
#39 Edited by beej (1674 posts) -

Awakening is standalone, don't delete it. You can play awakening without origins, not sure why you would want to but you totally can.  Oh this already got figured out. 
But insofar as the classification debate is concerned being based on another game or requiring that game to run seems like a strange way to determine what does and doesn't get a page. What counts as DLC and what counts as an expansion is hardly a set standard, and lumping stuff together is only going to result in messy pages. 

#40 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -
I agree with Killjoi that retail expansions should have their own pages....if not the WoW page would be bigger than the Everquest page.
#41 Posted by Bloodgraiv3 (2712 posts) -
@jadeskye said:
"no theres a retail standalone package of undead nightmare, it should remain. "

Agreed. 
#42 Posted by Turtlemayor333 (510 posts) -

Agreed totally with Killjoi.  
 
I've been saying for years we have too much crusading here to get rid of perfectly legitimate pages and now that shines through yet again.

#43 Posted by MetalBaofu (1374 posts) -
@beej said:
" You can play awakening without origins, not sure why you would want to but you totally can. 
I don't know why anyone would really want to play Awakening without having played Origins or having an Origins save, but I do get wanting to be able to play it straight off of a disc and not have to install it.  Especially if you are like me and still have the crappy 20GB HD for the 360. :p
#44 Posted by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
@Killjoi: All right, I see your point. It's hard to make a definite end-all-tell-all rule, though.
#45 Edited by StarFoxA (5146 posts) -
@Turtlemayor333: I wasn't aware of the content included in Undead Nightmare or the fact that it was standalone, I don't see where the crusading came from, I was just bringing it up based on the rules. To be honest, I don't really care whether or not expansions are deleted, I just noticed it in the new games section and thought I'd bring it up.
#46 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@StarFoxA said:
" @Killjoi: All right, I see your point. It's hard to make a definite end-all-tell-all rule, though. "
I can confirm there is a standalone package that does not require the main disk. I saw it today at wallmart. So thats another Nay for removing it. 
#47 Posted by ZombiePie (5642 posts) -

Alright it looks like everyone has provided their opinions on this matter and a conclusion has been reached. No need to keep this open.

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