Delete: Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare
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Noticed that Shivering Isles also has a page. This is DLC as well, and I know for a fact it's not standalone. Not sure about Dragon Age: Awakening.
" I thought it came out separately on a disk and didn't require the full game? "
I'm pretty sure this is correct, it came with all the MP DLC as well IIRC.
It's DLC, which they later released on a disc. It doesn't magically become a game once its printed on a disc.
http://www.play.com/Games/Xbox360/4-/17291475/Red-Dead-Redemption-Undead-Nightmare/Product.html?searchtype=allproducts&searchsource=0&searchstring=undead+nightmare&urlrefer=search" @jadeskye said:
" no theres a retail standalone package of undead nightmare, it should remain. "If that's true, it can stay... Shivering Isles can be deleted though. Even the box art on that page says "Content requires Oblivion" or something along those lines. "
Also, Shivering Isles and Awakening are both expansion packs, if Diablo 2: LoD gets its own page, so should those two.
" @LordAndrew said:No, RockStar did the same exact thing with the GTA IV DLC. There is precedent for this." Okay, so apparently the retail version of Undead Nightmare does work without the game. Crazy. "That is crazy. "
There was a retail version of the GTA IV DLC? That is news to me." @Underachiever007 said:
" @LordAndrew said:No, RockStar did the same exact thing with the GTA IV DLC. There is precedent for this. "" Okay, so apparently the retail version of Undead Nightmare does work without the game. Crazy. "That is crazy. "
" Also, Shivering Isles and Awakening are both expansion packs, if Diablo 2: LoD gets its own page, so should those two. "Well the rule is if it is released and doesn't require the main game to play, then it gets its own page. Shivering Isles does require Oblivion to play, so it shouldn't have a page. If the Diablo 2 expansion pack is standalone, then it can get a page.
Yup. I rented both the Undead Nightmare collection and the GTA: Episodes from Liberty City discs from Gamefly. Original game not needed to play, as already mentioned." @Underachiever007 said:
" @LordAndrew said:No, RockStar did the same exact thing with the GTA IV DLC. There is precedent for this. "" Okay, so apparently the retail version of Undead Nightmare does work without the game. Crazy. "That is crazy. "
Edit: Huh, it even has a weirdly in depth page here on Giant Bomb. If that gets it then Undead Nightmare certainly should
" @MooseyMcMan said:Stories from Liberty City or something like that. LaD and BoGT.There was a retail version of the GTA IV DLC? That is news to me. "" @Underachiever007 said:
" @LordAndrew said:No, RockStar did the same exact thing with the GTA IV DLC. There is precedent for this. "" Okay, so apparently the retail version of Undead Nightmare does work without the game. Crazy. "That is crazy. "
Undead Nightmare also is a standalone mulitplayer/single player expansion. Same for Awakening (console version).
According to this decidedly sketchy GameSpot thread, Awakening isn't standalone, and can be deleted as well.
Shivering Isles is labelled as an expansion pack, while Knights of the Nine is a "downloadable content collection".
" Shivering Isles is labelled as an expansion pack, while Knights of the Nine is a "downloadable content collection". "Knights of the Nine definitely requires the main game, since it doesn't contain a new world (like Shivering Isles does). In Knights of the Nine, you're still exploring the same world as the main game, it just adds a new quest line.
Shivering Isles isn't standalone, despite having a new world, since the entrance to that world is still within the main world.
I bought the Awakening disc for 360. I put it in and play Awakening. It didn't install anything or ask me to put the original game in that I can remember. Now if you didn't buy the physical Awakening disc and got the download version, then I imagine you would need Origins to be able to play it." According to this decidedly sketchy GameSpot thread, Awakening isn't standalone, and can be deleted as well. "
I'm not arguing for Knights of the Nine, just explaining how it's considered different from Shiving Isles.
" According to this decidedly sketchy GameSpot thread, Awakening isn't standalone, and can be deleted as well. "Incorrect. Regardless of whether or not it is a standalone product there are host videos like Quick Looks and trailers attached to the wiki entry and is not open to being deleted.
I have the Awakening retail package for 360 sitting right here in front of me (I'm finishing a third playthru with a mage)... it does not require DA:O to be installed for you to play with the DA:O-A disc.
It does say "* Requires Dragon Age: Origins for Xbox 360 for downloadable content and full feature functionality." on the back of the box.
" @metalhead87: If it's standalone on the disc, then it gets its own page. I'm seeing conflicting information, so I'm going to hold off on judgment. "I just checked it. When you put in the physical Awakening disc and click on "new game" this little menu comes up and basically asks what you want to play. Choices being Origins, Awakening, and any DLC you have installed. If you click Awakening then it goes to the "new character" or "import character" screen and you start playing. Play it off the the physical disc from what I can tell.
Expansions are rarely standalone but that doesn't disqualify them for a page. They are all retail products and make significant updates to the original game to require their own page. Trying to fit all that information in a single page is unwieldy. If you're deleting pages based on the standalone criteria alone, you should delete all the World of Warcraft, Guild Wars & Everquest expansions, Frozen Throne, Brood War, Neverwinter Nights and NWN 2 expansions, Throne of Bhaal, Age of Empire expansions and so on and so forth.
These are all major titles that sold more than a million copies by themselves. Yeah, let's not have a page for them. Good going!
General rule of the thumb should be: As long as a game/expansion has a retail release, it qualifies for its own page; irrespective of its dependencies. It's pretty much how wikipedia and mobygames work.
Expansions are no longer released "solely" in physical form. Everything is downloadable now. Shivering Isles was the first of many. DLC packs are rarely standalone either." @Killjoi: The rule is regarding downloadable content that has been released on a disc. Since there is a "DLC Add-Ons" section on game pages specifically for that. Expansion packs that were solely released in physical form are fine. As are DLC packs that are released as standalone physical discs. "
These retail releases are always big enough updates that they require their own page. Titles like Undead Nightmare or Awakening can be listed under DLC Addons section as well but deleting them for fear of redundancy is a myopic view of how the industry works these days.
" @Killjoi: It's not my call, but I'd say the thing that qualifies "game" pages to be "game" pages is being an actual game. Requiring another game to play it disqualifies it from being a "game." But again, I don't make the calls, it's up to one of the staff. "That's an odd stance to take when there are "games" like Cataclysm that require not one, not two but three prior games to play (Original WoW, Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King). Trying to fit all that information on a single page would be quite the task.
Even Wikipedia, a database infamous for its stringent rules against superfluous pages, lists Undead Nightmare, Awakening and Shivering Isles separately. Why exactly are you so zealous about deleting these pages on GB, when they clearly serve a purpose ?
Awakening is standalone, don't delete it. You can play awakening without origins, not sure why you would want to but you totally can. Oh this already got figured out.
But insofar as the classification debate is concerned being based on another game or requiring that game to run seems like a strange way to determine what does and doesn't get a page. What counts as DLC and what counts as an expansion is hardly a set standard, and lumping stuff together is only going to result in messy pages.
"no theres a retail standalone package of undead nightmare, it should remain. "
Agreed.
Agreed totally with Killjoi.
I've been saying for years we have too much crusading here to get rid of perfectly legitimate pages and now that shines through yet again.
" You can play awakening without origins, not sure why you would want to but you totally can.I don't know why anyone would really want to play Awakening without having played Origins or having an Origins save, but I do get wanting to be able to play it straight off of a disc and not have to install it. Especially if you are like me and still have the crappy 20GB HD for the 360. :p
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