Destiny - Crucial changes to multiplayer

Okay, so I've been playing Destiny a lot. It's currently the only game I have for PS4, and I've felt this weird sort of guilt for going back to play on the old consoles. Yeah I know it's weird. Anyway, that has led to me laying down a lot of man hours in multiplayer.

And it's pretty good.

Coming from me, that says something. I'm not the kind of guy who puts hours upon hours into multiplayer games, at least not anymore. Still, I find the Destiny multiplayer pretty decent. But there's so much that's in need of change.

Allow me to list up a few things:

• Fusion Rifles: These weapons are just terrible. I've never used them myself, but most of my deaths in multiplayer come from them, and it seems to be a one-shot every single time. And that's not really up close even, it's from pretty big distances. To me, that just doesn't make sense.
• Shotguns: The shotguns are also in need of some serious tweaking. To me, it just doesn't make sense that a shotgun is still a one-shot kill, when assault rifles require 20-30 rounds. In a COD-type milieu where you drop enemies with just a few rounds from a assault rifle, sure, that makes sense, but not in Destiny. In short, shotguns should be balanced to require two shots for a kill, no matter the distance.
• Supers: I've read a lot of places that people want supers removed. I do not want that at all. I think supers are great game changers and a ton of fun. However, they need to be tweaked a little. No matter which class and super, it seems like you get a defense boost when you activate the super, allowing you to survive things you normally shouldn't. It almost feels as if Bungie feels kinda bad for wasting a super, so they instead made them too effective. Supers are fun, but they shouldn't just mount up to free kills like they do today. I can't back this with any data, but I think it's pretty obvious that something happens when you get your super.
• Shorter game types: Bungie seriously need to add a couple of modes that last for shorter periods of time. I think the notion of the shortest game type being 12 minutes is insane. Sure, Control is a extremely good mode, and it fits the mode to last for 15 minutes, but 12 minutes for a FFA is too damned long in my opinion. At least give us a option to play shorter games.
• Vehicle hijacks: This is maybe the thing I miss the most from old Halo games. Just give me the option to hijack that damned Pike from my enemy, and I'll be a happy guy. It's so annoying to be basically defenseless 1-on-1 with one of those.

I think that about sums up my thoughts. What about you duders, are there things about the multiplayer you would change? What would you think about the changes I propose? Discuss!

I think you are completely off base about shotguns. First off, this isn't Call of Duty, its a game from the makers of Halo where shotguns have always been a one-shot kill at close range. Secondly its a range thing. Any class can carry a shotgun (or fusion rifle or sniper for that matter) its up to you to be mindful of your surroundings and switch to a weapon at the right time. I never feel mad about shotgun kills because they happen when I round a corner into a waiting player. At range with my scout/pulse rifle a shotgun isn't going to touch me.

Totally agree about supers. I absolutely think they belong in the game, but the damage reduction you get out of them is ridiculous. I'd also enact some sort of tweak like you being permanently lit up on radar for the duration of the super (this would really help with all the bladedancer bullshit).

Shotguns are getting nerfed already- Bungie has said the range is higher than what it should be at the moment. I think fusion rifles are fine- the spin-up time is a weakness that lines up with the short-range nature of the shotgun (or at least where the shotgun will be post-nerf) and the aiming time necessary for the sniper. All the special weapons can be 1 shot kills- shotgun is most effective at close range, fusion rifles are most effects at mid range, snipers at long range.

Also, I feel like the current greatest issue facing Crucible is the bullshit auto rifle range currently in place. Now that so many people have exotic ARs (or legendaries from the raid), I find myself getting gunned down at VERY long ranges in 1-1.5 seconds frequently. I'm very excited that a nerf is also planned for AR range.

@meteora3255: Well, just because something has been it doesn't mean it should be. By that logic there shouldn't be a left trigger aim in this game either. Still, in terms of spread and range, it' just no doubt in my mind that shotguns are way to powerful. The thing I hate most about multiplayer games are kills that simply require no skill. Yeah that might sound elitist or whiny or whatever, but I just think it sucks when you don't even have to aim. With sniper kills I can at least appreciate the effort the player took in getting a accurate shot, but shotguns just seem like the ultimate cheap shot weapon to me. It's a sucker punch basically.

If you play a lot of Control, the shotguns and fusion rifles get to be a real problem. When you've got titans equipped with fusion rifles and shotguns, and the defender spec, there's only so much you can do. What defines a good multiplayer game to me is that there always is a counter measure. I want to be able to rely on my level of skill to get me out of even the hairiest of situations. In Destiny, that's just not the case right now.

As someone who only ever really got into the MP of Battlefield games (as in its the only one I could stand to play longer than 10 minutes), I really dig destiny's MP. Also that last statement was a lie. I also really got into Dust 514 for a while. Which I should probably boot up again and check out. But I digress. I think the MP is fine in this game. I don't think shotguns or fusion rifles are over powered. You just have to learn to notice what they look like and move quickly and away from those people and take them out with your main ranged weapon or heavy. Also jump. That really messes them up. Its super hard to aim a fusion while it charges if someone is bouncing all over the place. And you can't one shot kill anyone with a shotgun that is backing away from you and zig zaging. I know. I try all the time.

And supers is what makes it stand out. Removing them would be dumb. I really sucked at mp of this game when I first started playing it. But now I think I pretty good. I average over 4000 points per match and my K/D ration has gone from .71 to 2.18 over the last two weeks. I really dig it.

Also whats nice about the MP is that its is actually pretty balanced. But most people just don't notice. I've been destroyed by level 7 characters as a 28 character. And just tonight I was moping up everyone with a level 9 character. I had the most kills and the most points. Also the least deaths. I was the only one in the match on either team below level 24. I have way worse weapons than those guys. They had blues and purples. While I was rocking green guns with no upgrades. And I was still able to one shot with my shotgun at close range. I was still able to kill most everyone with just a few burst of my pulse rifle to the head.. It didn't really seem to me like they had much of an advantage if at all.

They can't lower the match times because it would screw with the economy.

In theory they could reduce match times and rewards, but then it would feel like nobody was getting rewards from short matches and more people would complain.

Yup, that would be a issue. Although one could argue that the economy is pretty messed up right now. Just think how many times you have to play those few strikes or multiplayer maps over and over and over just to get enough reputation and currency to buy a set of armor from the merchants.

@legion_: Again I don't feel like shotguns are something that I fear. I avoid close range encounters whenever possible. However you seem to play Control where close range combat is almost necessary. I prefer Skirmish and in that mode I have always felt that a good team at range is better than fusion rifles and shotguns. At any rate the shotgun is getting balanced out, it should still be a one-hit kill at knife-fight range but will be less effective at the intermediate level.

I prefer the Halo 1 way of fighting to get to vehicles and then dealing with whoever gets it. That said, there should be more heavy weapon ammo on the maps with vehicles.

Fusion rifles should be harder to hit with. Shotguns should be weakened but still allow for easy kills (single shot with a melee for a kill). I think Supers are fine as they are. Not sure about shorter game modes. Smaller maps for modes like whatever their Slayer equivalent is would be nice though.

I think that shotguns are alright. I get the COD comparison, but that's how it was in Halo. Deadly up close, but you're better off throwing sticks once you put a bit of range between you and the opponent. And by a "bit" I mean the literal slightest bit. A lot of fun and tenseness for me comes from properly juggling your primary and shotgun.

Shotguns are kinda a pain but my main gripe is how the gameplay is funneling towards the use of only one gun, the auto rifle. High impact, good rate of fire, and basically no recoil makes it pretty much unstoppable except for another weapon of the same type. I mean, that happened in Halo too where people pretty much only start using the Battle Rifle as the de facto standard. But I like trying out and leveling different weapons so I have a variety but where most of the weapons work well in PvE, they do not all work so well in PvP.

@matatat: Guilty of using auto rifles. But I just got the Red Death pulse rifle from Xur, and I love it. Won the 3 rumble matches that I used it in so far.

They're nerfing the ARs in an upcoming patch.

I don't know if this is everyone's experience, but for me the biggest problem with the Crucible is how seemingly terrible the matchmaking is. The vast majority of rounds that I've played have been horrifically one-sided, with one team completely dominating the other for most of the match. I've even been matched into 3v3 skirmish rounds with 3 players on one side and just one on the other (I'm guessing this is caused by drop-outs, but in that case the game should auto-balance the teams before starting the game). Besides that, I generally find the whole process of trying to acquire and keep weapons that might be effective in multiplayer kind of tedious. The idea of taking normalised versions of your gear into the Crucible is cool on paper, but the way it's implemented at the moment doesn't seem all that fair.

Shotguns should always be a one shot kill up close. This should be an industry standard at this point.

I 100% agree but I have killed some people with a shotgun that were further than they should be for a one shot kill many times. They should reduce the range imo.

honestly i kinda agree and disagree with all of these.fusion rifles are strong,but they also have a decent charge time before they fire.i honestly dont know how you could fix it without ruining the gun.you take away damage its going to hurt it because of the charge time.you raise the charge time and keep the damage and the charge time will be way to slow.honestly i feel there ok as it is.i think shotguns are fine except for there range,they shoot way too far for a shotgun.the damage is fine and shouldnt be messed with ever.supers are fine as they are,everyone has them and they dont automatically mean you get a kill.in fact i feel that if you have a super you shouldnt be able to be killed except by another persons super.you take away the power the supers have now you take away the most fun part about the mp.im not against the shorter game times because i honestly believe we should be gaining rep and marks faster than we currently are,so faster games would help.vehicle hijacks woud be awesome as well,but i also think that you should be able to do more damage to vehicles,as i feel there still op.

After spending a good amount only using fusion rifle in PvP (for the exotic bounty), my overall impression is that it's a gamble weapon. Either you hit and get a one-shot kill or your shots completely whiff (which seems to be completely random) and you're dead before you get a second one off.

As for shotguns, changing the damage won't really change anything. Anyone that's spent a fair amount of time running around with a shotgun out has gotten used to melee'ing after the first shot (just in case), so the shotgun damage would have to get nerfed to oblivion for it to really matter. Also, it doesn't take 20+ bullets to kill someone (well, depending on weapon ofc). Generally it takes about 1/3 of your mag, or less if you're accurate, to kill someone with a primary weapon.

Overall I never really found the secondary weapons to be superior. Sure, they all have the capacity to one-shot people, but the drawbacks are just as likely to get you killed. In the end I've had way more success sticking with my primary (AR or hand cannon ofc). If there's anything I'd complain about, it's the same thing I complain about in basically all console shooters, the maps. They are almost universably terrible, especially Bastion and First Light. And in control (which is the only mode that's tolerable) the design of the control points are incredibly inconsistent. You have some that are basically impossible to hold on to, while others are like fortified bunkers.

also i wanna say that if anything should be nerfed its the melee.ive had my super up countless times and got hit by melee once and died.ive shot a guy point blank with a shotgun and died to a melee attack.melee needs to be nerfed hard imo.

Use a fusion rifle and you'll see there is a huge trade-off... you miss, you have to wait for another charge which can be 2-3 seconds away during which you're helpless outside of melee range. Also I've landed hits with it that, since the last 2 or 3 rays of fusion-ness missed, did not one-shot my target, so you're exaggerating a bit in that regard as well. You do not notice the times you were hit by a fusion rifle and survived because you get no indication of what weapon you were hit with unless you died.

Less special and heavy ammo.

Disagree about the shotgun. One hit kills should be possible in some variations. Sniper rifle head shots seem fine as one shot kills to me. It requires skill. Up close shotgun fire is the same. Doesn't require skill, but requires timing and risk. Perfect offset if you ask me. I'm not a skillful player, so instead I can still get the same result by taking risk and timing correctly. Fine balance if you ask me.

Agree with the supers though. The worst is the bladedancer. They just run around killing dudes while they are literally invulnerable. Yes, they take damage. But you cannot damage them enough to kill them, so they practically have God-mode. That's just not fun.

Fusion rifles have a specific zone usage - the short-medium range gap where shotguns will (after the update) universally and immediately fall off. Beyond that it is incredibly difficult to land hits with them. On top of that, landing every shot against moving targets in a game with so much mobility can be fucking hard. I somewhat understand the complaints about them, but based on experiences with them and the other special weapons, they fill a definitive gap between shotguns and sniper rifles, both of which are also one-hit-kill weapons with near hitscan travel times when used properly. Fusion rifles and shotguns are also an essential check against the Striker's Shoulder Charge, which, much as it might be the only thing that lets that subclass stand any chance, is a real bad time for anyone on the receiving end.

Also I know the Universal Remote doesn't fall off past that range, but it's a really weird one that doesn't really count in the discussion. I've only ever seen one in MP, and it belonged to my friend, who plays way too much.

The Supers are fine, but Titan overall feels as though it needs a rework. For what is supposed to be the tanky gunman class, both subclasses are laughably less durable than Sunsinger, and their Supers are by far the most situational powers in the game. When you pile that on top of subpar grenades, they generally do not stack up against any other class at a similar level.