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#1 Edited by BionicRadd (617 posts) -

I hate to say it, but every time I turn around, Microsoft is doing something that just baffles me. No, not Windows 8. I like that, just fine. However, I've been reading up on Iron Brigade for PC, since I suspect it will get added to the Double Fine Humble Bundle, next week. Between that game's apparent issues with Games For Windows Live and the issues I've had with the service when I've had to use it, I kind of just wish it would go away, entirely. It has to be one of the most anti-consumer PC "games services" out there, at the moment. On top of that, you have the Metro-style 360 dashboard that has, in my opinion, just ruined my experience on that console. It's to the point where I don't even like booting the thing up, anymore. On the subject of Windows 8, I'll acknowledge that completely removing the start menu and forcing people to use Metro is just dumb. It doesn't bother ME because I am comfortable enough on a PC to go out and get Classic Start Menu installed.

So, yea, I hope Microsoft gets knocked down a peg or two, next gen. I have no idea why game companies keep repeating this cycle, but here we are, again. You'd have thought after Sega got defeated by it's own hubris, companies would try a little harder to keep their ego in check, but they all just ignore the size of their heads until it starts dragging them down. Sony did it with the PS3, Nintendo did it with the 3DS and I feel like Microsoft might be headed that way with their next console based on how they're handling the 360, right now. Also, to be fair, Nintendo's ego has been ever swelling since the N64 came out using carts despite the fact that everyone else knew disc-based was the future. Strangely enough, the more I hear about the PS4 and the moves Sony has been making, the more excited I get for that piece of hardware. That's saying a lot, since I waited 3 or 4 years to get a PS3 and still don't like it as much as I liked the 360 pre-metro.

I say I hope they eat dirt, but it's only because I want them to be humble, again. They had a lot to prove with the Xbox and then the 360 after it and it showed in the output. They put their full weight behind trying to get people on board with their consoles. Now that they have us on board, it feels like games have become this secondary thing that our 360 happens to do, as opposed to being the entire reason we own the damn thing.

#2 Edited by believer258 (11771 posts) -

If people actually learned by paying attention to other people's hubris, then it wouldn't be a problem throughout history.

I don't turn on my 360 anymore partly because of the interface, either.

However, Metro on Windows 8 isn't that bad. I just hit the Windows button and I'm out of it. It has not bugged me in the least since I started using it.

#3 Posted by SathingtonWaltz (2053 posts) -

If people actually learned by paying attention to other people's hubris, then it wouldn't be a problem throughout history.

I don't turn on my 360 anymore partly because of the interface, either.

However, Metro on Windows 8 isn't that bad. I just hit the Windows button and I'm out of it. It has not bugged me in the least since I started using it.

Win 8 Metro is actually really useful if you have your PC hooked up to your TV, as the standard desktop has always looked / scaled terribly to me.

#4 Posted by Sterling (2135 posts) -

I honestly think this will be the case this new gen. Sony has learned from its mistakes this last gen, and has seen what Microsoft did. They will be the one that steps up, and Microsoft will fall behind. And the gen after that it will switch back. This is how it should be, because it is good for us gamers. It advances each system/platform/company to further heights. In my opinion this is part of Nintendo's problem. They were on top for so long they lost focus. Then the Wii was a big seller, and now they just assume they can do anything it will sell. I fully expect the PS4 to "win" this upcoming gen. Microsoft is too focused on doing other things with their console other than gaming.

#5 Posted by Clonedzero (4194 posts) -

Whats with all the threads about people wishing companies do poorly? This and there was the one the other day about the guy hoping nintendo fails.

Hell the NextBox hasn't even been unveiled yet.

Tomorrow there will probably be "I hope Sony goes out of business because i think kratos is dumb"

#6 Edited by Trylks (829 posts) -

I hope microsoft (and all companies) offer a great service to their customers and (as a consequence) get a great user base and a lot of money.

That is how free markets work. Companies offer products or services, people value those products or services more than the money that they cost and thus they pay for them, everybody wins, it's a win/win situation, so let's hope to see many of those in the future.

Win/win situations are good, stop the hate.

Having said that, I'll not get a console in the first 18 after it is released, because during that time they are overpriced and not very reliable. After those 18 months I'll check what product do these companies offer me for my money and I'll probably choose a Steam Box:

  • More games than in any other platform (as a consequence of openness empowering developers instead of trying to control and limit them)
  • More and better controllers than in any other platform (again as a consequence of openness of standards and market freedom)
  • Cheaper games and great deals (market freedom and competition, fuck yeah!)
  • Lots of features besides of gaming, (it's a PC!) Best of all, those features are free!
  • Digital distribution as the main model (no intermediaries means cheaper prices for the same thing, again competitiveness, openness, a quality service to the final user and nobody behind a counter trying to rip you off in the name of some company)

PD: I forgot mods, user generated content works much better on PCs too.

#7 Posted by OldGuy (1540 posts) -

Someone really has to explain to me why the 360 dashboard is so evil. If the disc is in that I want to play I hit A as soon as it comes up (try that on a Play$tation and see where it gets you), otherwise I hit down twice and hit A and pick a game... on those rare occasions when I want to play a game that isn't one of the last 10(?) I've played I have to exert myself greatly and click the right bumper a couple of times to get to the games library.

Lord, it's sooooo terrible, ugh.

#8 Edited by Mrsignerman44 (1100 posts) -

I just want them to stop being greedy, they still have the gall to charge for online and netflix/hulu/hbo capabilities.

#10 Edited by xyzygy (9935 posts) -

The gaming division at Microsoft has just been making questionable decisions for years now. I think it started with Kinect. I really love the new style and look of everything else that Microsoft is doing, especially Windows Phone and Windows 8, but Xbox is just not cutting it now. They need to come out strong and prove to us that they're in it to win it with this console.

#11 Posted by xyzygy (9935 posts) -

@oldguy said:

Someone really has to explain to me why the 360 dashboard is so evil. If the disc is in that I want to play I hit A as soon as it comes up (try that on a Play$tation and see where it gets you), otherwise I hit down twice and hit A and pick a game... on those rare occasions when I want to play a game that isn't one of the last 10(?) I've played I have to exert myself greatly and click the right bumper a couple of times to get to the games library.

Lord, it's sooooo terrible, ugh.

This is true. I don't see what the big problem is with the dashboard. Everything is sensibly organized and easy to find and like you said starting a game is super easy. On the contrary I think XMB is a complete cluttered mess full of crap I will never use and overly drawn out menus.

#12 Edited by Kidavenger (3526 posts) -

If Microsoft doesn't "win" the next gen the way they did this one, I can see them pulling out of the hardcore race and moving to something closer to an apple tv/streaming box or a light gaming system ala ouya, if they can't pull in live subscription fees I don't see them making enough money to care about "gamer" games and the way things are looking now I don't think they will be able to keep those subscriptions up unless they pull something major out of their hat.

#13 Edited by bigjeffrey (4904 posts) -

I expect the next dash to be faster (Since it's rumored to be like Windows 8, Win8 is snappy as fuck), i mean they could of just kept the blades but they did not.

Your Bundle aint so Humble if your asking for handouts.

#14 Posted by Veektarius (4741 posts) -

I will judge my decision for the next console cycle on what the companies do in the next console cycle and not on what they did before it.

#15 Edited by EXTomar (4623 posts) -

The XBox 360 dashboard is slow. Instead of getting snappier with subsequent version it has actually gotten slower. The XBox 360 dashboard is full of junk that has nothing to do with video games. The PS3 XMB isn't awesome but it also doesn't take so much toggling, scrolling, and selecting to get anywhere.

It isn't a mess but there are clearly problems with the 360 dashboard where at this point there are $99 blu-ray players with better layout.

#16 Posted by ez123 (1955 posts) -

@oldguy: The problem seems to be that XBL Gold costs money and the amount of ads has increased. But yeah, I think it functions just fine; the pinning feature is great.

@uksamwise: I hope that Sony keeps online free. They haven't said one way or another.

Also, I just want to say I have never had a problem with GFWL.

#17 Posted by xyzygy (9935 posts) -

@extomar said:

The XBox 360 dashboard is slow. Instead of getting snappier with subsequent version it has actually gotten slower. The XBox 360 dashboard is full of junk that has nothing to do with video games. The PS3 XMB isn't awesome but it also doesn't take so much toggling, scrolling, and selecting to get anywhere.

It isn't a mess but there are clearly problems with the 360 dashboard where at this point there are $99 blu-ray players with better layout.

$99 BD players don't offer near as much as a 360 does. The 360 dashboard smoothly presents us with our hard copy games, digital games, videos, cross-device compatibility, search, music, social, settings, and so much more. That's a really bad analogy.

#18 Posted by xyzygy (9935 posts) -

If Microsoft doesn't "win" the next gen the way they did this one, I can see them pulling out of the hardcore race and moving to something closer to an apple tv/streaming box or a light gaming system ala ouya, if they can't pull in live subscription fees I don't see them making enough money to care about "gamer" games and the way things are looking now I don't think they will be able to keep those subscriptions up unless they pull something major out of their hat.

I don't think that will ever happen. The reason why MS is getting so much flak for the Xbox right now is because they were the champs this gen. It's how competition works. strong competition leads to innovation, and perhaps we will see Sony as the leader next gen because they are forced to innovate. MS became gluttons from their number 1 spot. They won't simply give up if they do bad. Look at the orignal Xbox. It sold the least amount of the three and then they innovated with online gaming and came out on top in the next gen.

If they were a company to just give up they would have stopped after the Xbox 1.

#19 Edited by EXTomar (4623 posts) -

@xyzygy said:

@extomar said:

The XBox 360 dashboard is slow. Instead of getting snappier with subsequent version it has actually gotten slower. The XBox 360 dashboard is full of junk that has nothing to do with video games. The PS3 XMB isn't awesome but it also doesn't take so much toggling, scrolling, and selecting to get anywhere.

It isn't a mess but there are clearly problems with the 360 dashboard where at this point there are $99 blu-ray players with better layout.

$99 BD players don't offer near as much as a 360 does. The 360 dashboard smoothly presents us with our hard copy games, digital games, videos, cross-device compatibility, search, music, social, settings, and so much more. That's a really bad analogy.

Right but because one of the things the 360 dashboard now offers is an advertising platform that Microsoft. Oh wait you meant "offer to the gamer". Seriously, the last few versions of the dashboard are terrible from a usability standpoint where each iterration seems to sacrifice something else to put another ad or piece of content the user didn't ask for or cared about. The designers of the $99 blu-ray player put more thought and effort into the basic features than Microsoft where it has nothing to do with how complex games have gotten.

And we should not be surprised by this trend because it is actually all over Microsoft products. I am fond of pointing out how Skype used to be a clean and efficient VIOP app. Now every tab except settings/profile has an ad and alerts all over the place for junk I didn't ask for. The modern version still works but it seems to have a lot of interference over the old version....just like the 360 dashboard.

#20 Edited by jsnyder82 (730 posts) -

We haven't really heard anything official about the new Xbox yet, but I still think I'll stick with the PS4 next gen. Sony is just more up my alley lately.

Also, it's really nice to hear some positivity about Windows 8 in here. I don't think I'll ever truly understand the hate it's getting.

#21 Edited by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

I really don't get why you people can't use the interface. It's not that different, and it functions just fine. It's not perfect, but I've never had trouble getting around it. Either everyone else is just really bad at using electronic devices, or I suspect the real cause: people just hate change.

That said, I can't wait for better hardware to help the interface get back to being a little snappier. The interface is, imo, just fine other than the fact that it's sort of like a really big pair of tits squeezed into a way too small bra. The services and features have outgrown the hardware and it's a bummer. But besides those issues, which are kind of unavoidable, the Dashboard is fine. Seriously, you just search for what you want and it comes up. Or go to the tab that you want, and click down a couple levels. Boom. Done.

#22 Edited by xyzygy (9935 posts) -

@extomar said:

@xyzygy said:

@extomar said:

The XBox 360 dashboard is slow. Instead of getting snappier with subsequent version it has actually gotten slower. The XBox 360 dashboard is full of junk that has nothing to do with video games. The PS3 XMB isn't awesome but it also doesn't take so much toggling, scrolling, and selecting to get anywhere.

It isn't a mess but there are clearly problems with the 360 dashboard where at this point there are $99 blu-ray players with better layout.

$99 BD players don't offer near as much as a 360 does. The 360 dashboard smoothly presents us with our hard copy games, digital games, videos, cross-device compatibility, search, music, social, settings, and so much more. That's a really bad analogy.

Right but because one of the things the 360 dashboard now offers is an advertising platform that Microsoft. Oh wait you meant "offer to the gamer". Seriously, the last few versions of the dashboard are terrible from a usability standpoint where each iterration seems to sacrifice something else to put another ad or piece of content the user didn't ask for or cared about. The designers of the $99 blu-ray player put more thought and effort into the basic features than Microsoft where it has nothing to do with how complex games have gotten.

And we should not be surprised by this trend because it is actually all over Microsoft products. I am fond of pointing out how Skype used to be a clean and efficient VIOP app. Now every tab except settings/profile has an ad and alerts all over the place for junk I didn't ask for. The modern version still works but it seems to have a lot of interference over the old version....just like the 360 dashboard.

The 360 dashboard has one tiny little tile dedicated to ads. It's literally a non-issue. They are down in the right corner, the absolute farthest away from where the selected tile defaults to. It is not invasive at all and does not intrude in any way. I don't see how using LR/RB to switch between categories is telling of a slow dashboard, but it works fast and great for me.

The reason why your $99 BD players have simple layouts is because they are simple, limited devices. The 360 is not.

Also what are you saying about complex games? You said that you don't like the dashboard because it's too slow and cluttered, but then you criticize MS for not making their dashboard complex because games are now complex? Wouldn't a complex dashboard be the exact opposite of what you want?

#23 Posted by Kidavenger (3526 posts) -

@xyzygy:

I just see that they lack the focus/interest now that they had when they got into this business, also, I don't think the potential to make big $$$ is there anymore, the only reason Nintendo and Sony are still in it is because they need to be, Microsoft doesn't and with the industry declining so is Microsoft's interest to remain in that market.

#24 Posted by Basm321 (136 posts) -

The ads... So many fucking ads...

#25 Edited by Sterling (2135 posts) -

Wait has the dash changed again? I haven't booted up my xbox in over 5 months.

#26 Edited by OldGuy (1540 posts) -

...Oh, I see now (actually, I knew already, but whatever)... this isn't that the thing is "hard to use" or anything really about that it's that: "Grrr! They don't only focus on games!"

So, I've got news for you people 1) despite the presentation Sony made earlier this year I'm going to bet big that they PS4 will be more like the XBOX in terms of the content it offers up and 2) you are (the "I don't want any of that non-game crap on my thing" crowd) just going to have to deal with it...

Everyone on my friends list (25 or so) was recruited to play multilayer and get achievements from game centric sites (about half come from Giant Bomb). 80% of the time when I check in the friends tab 50% (or more) of them are doing something other than playing games (videos, music, etc.). This has held true for 3 years. From a pool of people you would think are more "hard core" than the average bear.

M$ and $ony know where the money is at (they are, after all, in the biz to make money), they have the stats on the back end to see where the best return on investment is and they are not going to ignore it (regardless or how much you whine).

I find it really easy to ignore the sections of the dashboard and the services that I don't care about really (really) don't understand why this is so difficult to do.

#27 Posted by BestUsernameEver (4825 posts) -

I expect the next dash to be faster (Since it's rumored to be like Windows 8, Win8 is snappy as fuck), i mean they could of just kept the blades but they did not.

Im fucking ready for this shit.

Also i'll be making this thread

"I hope Sony goes out of business because i think kratos is dumb"

Oh man, metro styled blades UI would be amazing, and since so many people loved the original, I'm sure Microsoft is at least thinking about making a new version.

#28 Posted by sins_of_mosin (1556 posts) -

Not sure why some of you think that MS could leave or don't really care about the industry. If anything, Nintendo will be the next to give up hardware because 3rd parties don't give a shit and people aren't giving a shit for the upgraded Wii.

Honestly, if Nintendo switched to software only, no loss at all. If MS switched to software only, the industry would change for the worse.... much worse.

#29 Edited by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

Right now, there's a zero percent chance that I'll buy the new Xbox. They could raise that to around one percent by making sure the UI isn't laggy, unintuitive POS.

#30 Edited by jimmyfenix (3851 posts) -

why cant we all get along

#31 Posted by Humanity (9004 posts) -

Anyone that doesn't want to turn on their 360 because of the new dashboard is a complete joke. What are you guys doing with that 360? I mean I turn mine on to play video games. This involves me pressing the power button and when the 360 boots up the very first square lit up is LAUNCH GAME, which I do. What is so hard about navigating this interface where the first button on the first page is used to play games? If I want to find new demos then I go to the marketplace and demo section and everything is listed there just fine.

I mean I get it, I didn't like the redesign that much in the beginning either - but it's not THAT bad. If you are using your gaming console to play games then the redesign really has almost zero impact on anything you do. Most actions can still be initiated for the guide button menu like inviting people to games or setting up parties. If you don't want to buy the next XBOX thats fine but please stop condemning an entire company because you can't find your way around a pretty simple interface.

Also, I played Iron Brigade on PC through GFWL and it worked just fine. I played Bulletstorm via GFWL and it worked JUST fine. I played DIRT 2 and DIRT3 on GFWL and they both worked just fine. No issues here, zero.

#33 Posted by Andorski (5236 posts) -

I don't know how the majority of this conversation is focused on the 360's UI. It arguably sucks, but it's not the crux of why people take issue with MS as a console holder. People complain about how MS has handled the 360 because they have been terrible to the majority of gamers in regards to what people want from their console. This is inarguable.

Simply put, Microsoft exploits every avenue possible to charge their userbase and rarely, if ever, use put good faith in their customers in hopes of getting greater returns from them later.

  1. Paying for Gold is a rip-off. The PS3 and PC (MMO games notwithstanding) offer online gaming for free. In regards to Sony's platform, their initially weak online infrastructure is now equivalently robust as XBL. While still weaker in some areas (No cross-game chat, no party functionality), PSN's laissez-faire approach allows for more player created content in games. Meanwhile PC dominates anything Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo can ever achieve with their console's online functionality. PC's only weakness is the possibility of online services not being as user friendly as their console counterparts.
  2. Continuing with the XBL Gold's problems, almost every single app that is released on the platform is behind the subscription paywall. Customers are expected to pay for LIVE in order to pay and use apps like Hulu and Netflix. These same apps are on the PS3, Wii U, and PC for free.
  3. Lastly, Microsoft pushes hard to make every single piece of content on Live be charged for. There are so many examples of this taking place. Microsoft initially wanted one of Gears of War's map packs be paid for, and was only released free when Epic Games and/or Microsoft had a Discovery Channel show sponsor the DLC. All content for Valve's games had DLC that you had to buy on XBL but was given for free on Steam. Supergiant Games wanted to give away a small piece of DLC for Bastion, but was not allowed to by Microsoft. They settled with Microsoft to have the DLC be sold for as cheap as possible at $1 (The same DLC was given for free on PC). This last example particularly irks me. An indie developer wanted to give something for free to their customers and Microsoft said no to them.
#34 Edited by SomeJerk (3203 posts) -

UI:
Does the interface of the 360 take you out of the experience in a game like it does for me? Be it a message, achievement, if I have to hit the XMB or even open up the standardized save-game dialogue I feel like I'm still 'there' on PS3, it feels like I tab to a terribly un-flashy PowerPoint panel doing those things on the 360. Thought the Wii UI was perfectly fine on these points, and I hate that it "takes me out" of it that hard on the 360. (helps to turn off notifications but eurgh)

They can and will eat dirt:
You and I are not their customers any longer, as much as I accept that and that money makes the world go round and that they actually are making wise business decisions including going hard on the buzzphrase of always online, it is terribly ugly for our eyes and may very well get uglier - but is it going to go so far that gaming media will start being grumpy?

Publicity:
Sony still take shit for the PSN downtime that didn't lead to a single piece of ID theft or CC fraud while Microsoft don't get anything, not even after it was proven the FIFA "hacks" were their fault. Even Win8 and tablet and WinPhone negative talks were quieted down greatly and quite suddenly, a few sites have covered those campaigns.

Games:
You and I are not their customers any longer, unless you're really hot for what exclusives have been on the 360 in the past few years. Now look at what exclusives the PS3 got in that time. Now look at the upcoming PS4 and 720.

Microsoft does business with a goal of making money, Sony's got the Japanese thing of catering towards their customers as a primary goal, this isn't changing. Investors and stock-holders are cranky over Ballmer and will get rid of him if they desire, don't count on online-play going free on the next box, while Sony's doing the Japanese thing of holding its head just above the surface.

#35 Edited by EXTomar (4623 posts) -

@humanity: If you want to be honest, I haven't turned on my 360 in months. I had reasons a while ago to play games on the 360 but they all evaporated ranging from annoyances in system, friends no longer using their 360 to if not superior alternatives (read: The PC Version) . In particular, starting up my computer from "cold start" and playing a game is so much faster than the 360 especially now where I don't use it regularly and patches stack up due to lack of online time.

For the record I rarely play anything on my PS3 as well where today it is mainly a media hub. Why don't I use my 360 for that? Because the PS3 was "plug and play" while the 360 demanded I either configure something or find a Windows machine (which I don't have) or it fails to understand any of the other set top boxes or servers.

This seems to be a repeating problem I have with the 360 today: I could work on it to get it to work but something else does it faster and easier so why bother? This is only my experience where no one should take it any more than anecdotal nor should anyone be surprised if someone is extremely happy with what the 360 has done for them. I only object to the idea there is nothing to complain about. I am curious about what the next XBox is going to feature where nothing would make me happier than a "complete rewrite" of the dashboard and media technology.

#36 Edited by Superfriend (1540 posts) -

I´m hoping for some interesting games to show up at that Microsoft event..

but since they essentially destroyed every first party studio they had, I don´t think they´ll have any except Halo and maybe Gears. And.. more casual Kinect bullshit. Ugh.

PS4 and PC seem like a really good idea right now.

#37 Posted by Humanity (9004 posts) -

@extomar: Hey I'm not saying there is nothing to complain about. That new dashboard is not the greatest thing in the world, I'll be the first to admit it. I'm just finding it completely incredulous that people would not want to use that console to play their games because of the dashboard, which ultimately plays a very minor role in actually playing the games.

Also I agree that it's different strokes for different folks. I had my 360 connected to my PC with no real issues, streamed music and video. I find everything on the PS3 extremely convoluted to set up. It feels like a bunch of engineers designed that interface without letting QA test it with a live audience. Thats my experience anyway.

#38 Edited by bgdiner (275 posts) -

It's a bit disconcerting how different the conversation is about the upcoming console generation as compared with the conversation about the current generation.

I still remember combing through pages and pages in every gaming magazine I could get my hands on in 2005 and 2006, in anticipation of the 360 and the PS3. Back then, the conversation seemed so simple: all anyone talked about was which games each console would feature, when we'd see Halo 3, etc. Yes, in hindsight, every console launch prior to the current one seems fantastic, but there's such a huge disconnect between the conversation now and the conversation back then. I remember playing the Call of Duty 2 demo at Gamestop and just feeling a sense of wonder at the sheer magnificence of that game. The focus then was on games, and not so much on multimedia functionality.

The way the conversation is going, I might just stick with my PC. For a couple hundred every few years I can improve my system and play the newest games without fear of always-on functionality hampering my enjoyment. Granted, there's some games that are made only for consoles, but the PC, to me, resembles a gamer's machine, rather than a casual multimedia box. That's just my opinion.

#39 Posted by ez123 (1955 posts) -

@superfriend: They have actually built a couple of new ones like Black Tusk, which is said to be making a hardcore game. Either way though, 1st party studios isn't the only way to have exclusives. They have their own IPs, they could just pay other studios to make those games.

I'm not as doom and gloom as everyone else is about the games. I think they'll have enough exclusives(controller-based). The gold subscription to play online is the bummer part.

#40 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

I for one hope MS has their shit together. Sony seems to be on the right track with PS4, and I love it. If MS manages to outpitch Sony on the 21st, that can only mean good things for me. At E3, it'll be like two hot chicks trying to get it on with me, one-upping each other in attractiveness at every turn.

Tight *!

#41 Edited by thatdutchguy (1271 posts) -

@bionicradd: I just installed the Classic Start Menu for windows 8. thank you very much for the tip!

#42 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@bgdiner:

Unless you are a pirate, always online is already a reality on PC in many cases. So are you a pirate? You are pirate! Aren't you?

#43 Posted by Cold_Wolven (2216 posts) -

I too want Microsoft to lose next generation just so they can wake up in future. The impression I have is Sony are doing everything they can to try and appeal to game enthusiasts like me ever since they introduced the PS+ service where is with Microsoft I can't stand what Xbox Live is, trying to sell me multiplayer I can get for free everywhere else and all those apps I couldn't care less about. I want a game console first and foremost not a DVR that happens to play games.

#44 Posted by Superfriend (1540 posts) -

@ez123 said:

@superfriend: They have actually built a couple of new ones like Black Tusk, which is said to be making a hardcore game. Either way though, 1st party studios isn't the only way to have exclusives. They have their own IPs, they could just pay other studios to make those games.

I'm not as doom and gloom as everyone else is about the games. I think they'll have enough exclusives(controller-based). The gold subscription to play online is the bummer part.

Oh, it´s doom and gloom alright. Just look at the last couple of years. Their strategy seems to have been: Release one shooter and one racing game per year to "satisfy" the hardcore audience.. and secure timed exclusives up the ass to shit on the other consoles/ the PC. Honestly, I loved the 360 once. But the last 2 or 3 years have been dire. The final nail in their coffin is their BAD treatment of independent developers and the way they handle XBLA in general. They just don´t care about their consumer base.

My bets are on them continuing to chase this fabled "casual crowd" that doesn´t really exist (anymore).

#45 Posted by AgnosticJesus (543 posts) -

@uksamwise: Sony is going to have subscription based online ala Xbox Live as well that is not PS+. What will you do then, shun Sony as well or get a 2nd job to pay that exuberant $8/month?

#46 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (4184 posts) -

@uksamwise: Sony is going to have subscription based online ala Xbox Live as well that is not PS+. What will you do then, shun Sony as well or get a 2nd job to pay that exuberant $8/month?

People will pay up Sony, and hate Microsoft anyway. People that play PC before and after consoles and will "go back to PC's," when they already had it.

I think I'ma get a Xbox, even just for the exclusives that might hopefully get announced.

  • PGR 5
  • Fable MMO
  • Supposed Halo Prequel, that might not happen
  • Multiplayer everything else w/ friends

But that's just me. Its more like I just don't give a shit what people think if I get it.

#47 Edited by ez123 (1955 posts) -
@superfriend said:

Oh, it´s doom and gloom alright.

I can certainly see that it is for you. Why are they shitting on consoles by having timed exclusives? You complain about too much shooters/racing games. Then when it comes to games like Dust or MOTN, the problem is that they keep it exclusive to 360 for about a year. There are unique games to that console that you're saying doesn't release any unique games, and that's somehow a problem?

Plus, the doritos game just came out. You can't complain days after a hot exclusive like that comes out.

#48 Edited by BionicRadd (617 posts) -

Pre-Metro, I turned on my 360 and either hit the button to play the game in the disc drive or went up one time to get to the row with all MY stuff. Not a fraction of my stuff plus a whole bunch of other crap MS wants to sell me. Ads for games, movies and music that I can buy on the 360 are still ads. Claiming the current dash has one square per block for ads is disingenuous at best and delusional, at worst. The stuff I bought doesn't even get highlighted on the current dash. It's hidden behind the one tile per group that we are given for our stuff. It would be like loading up Itunes and having to scroll past albums they want to sell you to get to your music collection. For the record, I don't like how the Playstation Store works on the PS3, either, but at least Sony put their Marketplace in one spot, which is what I wish Microsoft would go to. I bought a game console 5 years ago and they have since turned it into a storefront that happens to play games that I have to pay them to be able to use to it's full potential.

Let's be clear, though, none of that would actually matter if everything on the 360 was not so insufferably slow, now. The apps we're supposed to buy Gold to have access to are all vastly inferior to the same apps offered on other platforms that don't charge an extra fee for access. Netflix is better on PS3 (continuous play is something all Netflix apps should have), HBO Go (I can't delete stuff from my watch list if I didn't add it to the watch list through the 360) and Hulu (holy god, don't even get me started on the nonsense that is your queue) are both leagues better on Roku and I can't even make purchases through the Amazon Instant Video app. I have to go to my computer, buy what I want to watch and then go back to the 360 to watch it. Or I can just shut off the 360 and do it all through the Roku, which is what I do. Why does it take 10 seconds for Youtube to load? Why do I have to hit 3 button prompts to get back to the loading screen that eventually takes me back to the dashboard so that I can surf through more ads to get the content I paid for? Again, so we're clear, I am not saying the PS3 is demonstrably better at this. I am saying 360 is worse at it than it used to be. Aren't these things supposed to get better as we go?

#50 Posted by bgdiner (275 posts) -

@seppli: But Steam has an offline mode so...