@HatKing: Nope, sorry. You aren't getting away with that one. If you wanted a comparison of that nature, the ladies' vaginas would need to be showing some insane camel toe. That these women have large breasts, etc. is more akin to the dwarf having ludicrously unrealistic amounts of muscle. (And if you don't think that there isn't some woman (or man!) somewhere masturbating to the site of that image, then you need to know somethign about the way that fetishes and sexuality work.)
So you don't see anything wrong with a bunch of (probably male) designers making gigantic-breasted women and marketing it to a (largely male) audience? If this were a movie it would be scoffed at by any real critic as something along the lines of porn. And that's fine, I'm not trying to say there isn't a place for that, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with sex. However when it is very deliberately placed in advertising and trailers, it is no longer just about sex. It is about marketing sex; and that I do have a problem with.
Think about it, sex is very present in other games. Mass Effect for example, but you do not see trailers where all the women are half-naked - or at least not exclusively. However, try to find a trailer of this game where the sorceress' tits aren't bouncing out of her clothing and you'll come back empty handed.
I think you're all children and need to get over the fact that a developer went with an aesthetic you don't care for. Don't like the over-exaggerated proportions? Fine, then don't play the game. Don't watch the trailers, either. It's not like it forces you to click the play button. Heck, judging by the sales of previous Vanillaware games, you made the choice long ago not to play them, so why are you still complaining about it?
Meanwhile, I'll be here enjoying the brilliant artwork that they create, the beautiful worlds they imagine, the compelling characters they create and the fun and tight gameplay they're known for because I'm not an entitled douche who thinks that video games "need to be more mature". It's not like the rest of the industry releases fart simulators and Duke Nukem copycats, so give one of the few developers who actually has the stones and talent to try something different the light of day.
You don't get it, man. By looking at big boobs and enjoying it you are a woman-objectifying sexist pig. You are only allowed to enjoy looking at small boobs completely covered by clothes.
If you're a woman, however, you can look at hot men as much as you want because that's gender equality. You're just showing off your strength as a modern woman. @Aronman789: Why can't dwarves be Norse?
I just think the art style for this one looks bad in comparison to their older stuff. I know Grim Grimoire had witches and Muramasa has some girls with boobies that are rather ecstatically endowed, but it's like they're putting those in to compensate for gameplay or something.
Are you kidding? I'm buying this game purposely because it has big boobs. It's been too long since I've played a DOA game and this looks both bouncy and pretty.
@HatKing: Nope, sorry. You aren't getting away with that one. If you wanted a comparison of that nature, the ladies' vaginas would need to be showing some insane camel toe. That these women have large breasts, etc. is more akin to the dwarf having ludicrously unrealistic amounts of muscle. (And if you don't think that there isn't some woman (or man!) somewhere masturbating to the site of that image, then you need to know somethign about the way that fetishes and sexuality work.)
So you don't see anything wrong with a bunch of (probably male) designers making gigantic-breasted women and marketing it to a (largely male) audience? If this were a movie it would be scoffed at by any real critic as something along the lines of porn. And that's fine, I'm not trying to say there isn't a place for that, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with sex. However when it is very deliberately placed in advertising and trailers, it is no longer just about sex. It is about marketing sex; and that I do have a problem with. Think about it, sex is very present in other games. Mass Effect for example, but you do not see trailers where all the women are half-naked - or at least not exclusively. However, try to find a trailer of this game where the sorceress' tits aren't bouncing out of her clothing and you'll come back empty handed.
Not a bit.
And if this was a movie, it wouldn't be scoffed at as porn. Maybe scoffed at as a Conan the Barbarian-like fantasy of musclemen and busty women, but not porn.
Also, get this. Sex sells. And if you're going to jump on Dragon's Crown of all games for taking this tactic, then you have both narrow vision and are late to the party.
@HatKing: Nope, sorry. You aren't getting away with that one. If you wanted a comparison of that nature, the ladies' vaginas would need to be showing some insane camel toe. That these women have large breasts, etc. is more akin to the dwarf having ludicrously unrealistic amounts of muscle. (And if you don't think that there isn't some woman (or man!) somewhere masturbating to the site of that image, then you need to know somethign about the way that fetishes and sexuality work.)
So you don't see anything wrong with a bunch of (probably male) designers making gigantic-breasted women and marketing it to a (largely male) audience? If this were a movie it would be scoffed at by any real critic as something along the lines of porn. And that's fine, I'm not trying to say there isn't a place for that, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with sex. However when it is very deliberately placed in advertising and trailers, it is no longer just about sex. It is about marketing sex; and that I do have a problem with. Think about it, sex is very present in other games. Mass Effect for example, but you do not see trailers where all the women are half-naked - or at least not exclusively. However, try to find a trailer of this game where the sorceress' tits aren't bouncing out of her clothing and you'll come back empty handed.
Not a bit.
And if this was a movie, it wouldn't be scoffed at as porn. Maybe scoffed at as a Conan the Barbarian-like fantasy of musclemen and busty women, but not porn.
Also, get this. Sex sells. And if you're going to jump on Dragon's Crown of all games for taking this tactic, then you have both narrow vision and are late to the party.
Right, and so does cocaine. That doesn't make it right to take advantage of the fact. I'm not targeting any one game here, I'm replying to a post that somebody else made. He asked why people are upset when games portray women as sex objects to men and I'm answering. The truth is this game is now in the minority when it comes to developers or publishers (whoever thought this was a good idea) still pedaling sex or violence as the main attraction to games. It trivializes and demeans the entire medium and you're God damned right I'm offended by it. When my girlfriend sits next to me while I am looking at video game sites I don't want to have to explain to her that the half naked women with unrealistically bouncing breasts isn't a big deal because "that's the art style."
@HatKing: Nope, sorry. You aren't getting away with that one. If you wanted a comparison of that nature, the ladies' vaginas would need to be showing some insane camel toe. That these women have large breasts, etc. is more akin to the dwarf having ludicrously unrealistic amounts of muscle. (And if you don't think that there isn't some woman (or man!) somewhere masturbating to the site of that image, then you need to know somethign about the way that fetishes and sexuality work.)
So you don't see anything wrong with a bunch of (probably male) designers making gigantic-breasted women and marketing it to a (largely male) audience? If this were a movie it would be scoffed at by any real critic as something along the lines of porn. And that's fine, I'm not trying to say there isn't a place for that, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with sex. However when it is very deliberately placed in advertising and trailers, it is no longer just about sex. It is about marketing sex; and that I do have a problem with. Think about it, sex is very present in other games. Mass Effect for example, but you do not see trailers where all the women are half-naked - or at least not exclusively. However, try to find a trailer of this game where the sorceress' tits aren't bouncing out of her clothing and you'll come back empty handed.
Not a bit.
And if this was a movie, it wouldn't be scoffed at as porn. Maybe scoffed at as a Conan the Barbarian-like fantasy of musclemen and busty women, but not porn.
Also, get this. Sex sells. And if you're going to jump on Dragon's Crown of all games for taking this tactic, then you have both narrow vision and are late to the party.
Right, and so does cocaine. That doesn't make it right to take advantage of the fact. I'm not targeting any one game here, I'm replying to a post that somebody else made. He asked why people are upset when games portray women as sex objects to men and I'm answering. The truth is this game is now in the minority when it comes to developers or publishers (whoever thought this was a good idea) still pedaling sex or violence as the main attraction to games. It trivializes and demeans the entire medium and you're God damned right I'm offended by it. When my girlfriend sits next to me while I am looking at video game sites I don't want to have to explain to her that the half naked women with unrealistically bouncing breasts isn't a big deal because "that's the art style."
Now you're comparing this to drug use? What.
And I'd like to see you with some statistics to back up your claims on the use of sex and violence in game marketing. It does nothing to trivialize or demean the medium. Comic books, films, and novels are all media that feature some incredibly overt sex and violence depending on the property, and no one would say that, for instance, David Cronenberg's Crash was a sexual perversion that would destroy cinema. Or that Harlequin romance novels demean Lord of the Rings. You're overreacting.
@HatKing: Nope, sorry. You aren't getting away with that one. If you wanted a comparison of that nature, the ladies' vaginas would need to be showing some insane camel toe. That these women have large breasts, etc. is more akin to the dwarf having ludicrously unrealistic amounts of muscle. (And if you don't think that there isn't some woman (or man!) somewhere masturbating to the site of that image, then you need to know somethign about the way that fetishes and sexuality work.)
So you don't see anything wrong with a bunch of (probably male) designers making gigantic-breasted women and marketing it to a (largely male) audience? If this were a movie it would be scoffed at by any real critic as something along the lines of porn. And that's fine, I'm not trying to say there isn't a place for that, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with sex. However when it is very deliberately placed in advertising and trailers, it is no longer just about sex. It is about marketing sex; and that I do have a problem with. Think about it, sex is very present in other games. Mass Effect for example, but you do not see trailers where all the women are half-naked - or at least not exclusively. However, try to find a trailer of this game where the sorceress' tits aren't bouncing out of her clothing and you'll come back empty handed.
Not a bit.
And if this was a movie, it wouldn't be scoffed at as porn. Maybe scoffed at as a Conan the Barbarian-like fantasy of musclemen and busty women, but not porn.
Also, get this. Sex sells. And if you're going to jump on Dragon's Crown of all games for taking this tactic, then you have both narrow vision and are late to the party.
Right, and so does cocaine. That doesn't make it right to take advantage of the fact. I'm not targeting any one game here, I'm replying to a post that somebody else made. He asked why people are upset when games portray women as sex objects to men and I'm answering. The truth is this game is now in the minority when it comes to developers or publishers (whoever thought this was a good idea) still pedaling sex or violence as the main attraction to games. It trivializes and demeans the entire medium and you're God damned right I'm offended by it. When my girlfriend sits next to me while I am looking at video game sites I don't want to have to explain to her that the half naked women with unrealistically bouncing breasts isn't a big deal because "that's the art style."
Now you're comparing this to drug use? What.
And I'd like to see you with some statistics to back up your claims on the use of sex and violence in game marketing. It does nothing to trivialize or demean the medium. Comic books, films, and novels are all media that feature some incredibly overt sex and violence depending on the property, and no one would say that, for instance, David Cronenberg's Crash was a sexual perversion that would destroy cinema. Or that Harlequin romance novels demean Lord of the Rings. You're overreacting.
You said that sex sells, as if that were some way to justify that they are selling it. I said, by comparison, that drugs also sell. The point being that just because something sells it doesn't make it okay.
Watch any other trailer released at E3. See if you can come back with more than one other game that is explicitly selling the female form like this one is. And you've missed my point. Like I said previous, sex has it's place. Mass Effect has sex, and it's one of my favorite games. However, it's done in a meaningful way. The sex is there for some reason other than for people to tug their dick to and it isn't used to drive sales of the game. That is the entire issue I take here. It isn't sex for any meaningful, insightful, creative, or intelligent reason. There is nothing more to it than money.
I'll try to lay this out in a more simple way. Sex is okay when: it is there for a reason outside of making money. Sex is wrong: to use as a means to sell your product.
It trivializes and demeans the entire medium and you're God damned right I'm offended by it.
It doesn't trivialize or demean shit. People enjoy looking at boobs. The goal of a game is to provide enjoyment. Hence, boobs in the game. The only thing demeaning gaming is people like you being "offended" because games don't fit your conservative, religious geezer morals.
@HatKing said:
When my girlfriend sits next to me while I am looking at video game sites I don't want to have to explain to her that the half naked women with unrealistically bouncing breasts isn't a big deal because "that's the art style."
What you shouldn't want is a girlfriend who isn't capable of connecting the dots on her own.
It trivializes and demeans the entire medium and you're God damned right I'm offended by it.
It doesn't trivialize or demean shit. People enjoy looking at boobs. The goal of a game is to provide enjoyment. Hence, boobs in the game. The only thing demeaning gaming is people like you being "offended" because games don't fit your conservative, religious geezer morals.
@HatKing said:
When my girlfriend sits next to me while I am looking at video game sites I don't want to have to explain to her that the half naked women with unrealistically bouncing breasts isn't a big deal because "that's the art style."
What you shouldn't want is a girlfriend who isn't capable of connecting the dots on her own.
Are you in middle school? If the games industry has come to the point where the only reason people are playing is to gawk at tits, then I completely give up hope.
But thanks for hoping half way into the argument and slinging insults about. It really shows maturity on your half.
@HatKing: Nope, sorry. You aren't getting away with that one. If you wanted a comparison of that nature, the ladies' vaginas would need to be showing some insane camel toe. That these women have large breasts, etc. is more akin to the dwarf having ludicrously unrealistic amounts of muscle. (And if you don't think that there isn't some woman (or man!) somewhere masturbating to the site of that image, then you need to know somethign about the way that fetishes and sexuality work.)
So you don't see anything wrong with a bunch of (probably male) designers making gigantic-breasted women and marketing it to a (largely male) audience? If this were a movie it would be scoffed at by any real critic as something along the lines of porn. And that's fine, I'm not trying to say there isn't a place for that, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with sex. However when it is very deliberately placed in advertising and trailers, it is no longer just about sex. It is about marketing sex; and that I do have a problem with. Think about it, sex is very present in other games. Mass Effect for example, but you do not see trailers where all the women are half-naked - or at least not exclusively. However, try to find a trailer of this game where the sorceress' tits aren't bouncing out of her clothing and you'll come back empty handed.
Not a bit.
And if this was a movie, it wouldn't be scoffed at as porn. Maybe scoffed at as a Conan the Barbarian-like fantasy of musclemen and busty women, but not porn.
Also, get this. Sex sells. And if you're going to jump on Dragon's Crown of all games for taking this tactic, then you have both narrow vision and are late to the party.
Right, and so does cocaine. That doesn't make it right to take advantage of the fact. I'm not targeting any one game here, I'm replying to a post that somebody else made. He asked why people are upset when games portray women as sex objects to men and I'm answering. The truth is this game is now in the minority when it comes to developers or publishers (whoever thought this was a good idea) still pedaling sex or violence as the main attraction to games. It trivializes and demeans the entire medium and you're God damned right I'm offended by it. When my girlfriend sits next to me while I am looking at video game sites I don't want to have to explain to her that the half naked women with unrealistically bouncing breasts isn't a big deal because "that's the art style."
Now you're comparing this to drug use? What.
And I'd like to see you with some statistics to back up your claims on the use of sex and violence in game marketing. It does nothing to trivialize or demean the medium. Comic books, films, and novels are all media that feature some incredibly overt sex and violence depending on the property, and no one would say that, for instance, David Cronenberg's Crash was a sexual perversion that would destroy cinema. Or that Harlequin romance novels demean Lord of the Rings. You're overreacting.
You said that sex sells, as if that were some way to justify that they are selling it. I said, by comparison, that drugs also sell. The point being that just because something sells it doesn't make it okay. Watch any other trailer released at E3. See if you can come back with more than one other game that is explicitly selling the female form like this one is. And you've missed my point. Like I said previous, sex has it's place. Mass Effect has sex, and it's one of my favorite games. However, it's done in a meaningful way. The sex is there for some reason other than for people to tug their dick to and it isn't used to drive sales of the game. That is the entire issue I take here. It isn't sex for any meaningful, insightful, creative, or intelligent reason. There is nothing more to it than money. I'll try to lay this out in a more simple way. Sex is okay when: it is there for a reason outside of making money. Sex is wrong: to use as a means to sell your product.
Who says that using sex as a selling point is by itself wrong?
Are you in middle school? If the games industry has come to the point where the only reason people are playing is to gawk at tits, then I completely give up hope.
No, but I'm guessing you're still in pre-school. Read the bolded part. Then read my post.
I'd say you were twisting my words, but you don't seem intelligent enough for that so I assume you just can't read.
@Hailinel: Because, in this case, it's not just sex. They're demeaning women by using them (entirely physically) to sell games. I mean, if this game is meant to be something along the lines of pornography, that's fine. But the OP shouldn't be surprised when people are offended by it. Further, pushing it as something more mainstream makes the entire industry look bad to any female gamers looking to get involved in the community.
It trivializes and demeans the entire medium and you're God damned right I'm offended by it.
It doesn't trivialize or demean shit. People enjoy looking at boobs. The goal of a game is to provide enjoyment. Hence, boobs in the game. The only thing demeaning gaming is people like you being "offended" because games don't fit your conservative, religious geezer morals.
@HatKing said:
When my girlfriend sits next to me while I am looking at video game sites I don't want to have to explain to her that the half naked women with unrealistically bouncing breasts isn't a big deal because "that's the art style."
What you shouldn't want is a girlfriend who isn't capable of connecting the dots on her own.
Are you in middle school? If the games industry has come to the point where the only reason people are playing is to gawk at tits, then I completely give up hope. But thanks for hoping half way into the argument and slinging insults about. It really shows maturity on your half.
Your responses are really little more than hyperventilation. Let's look at it this way:
I enjoy video games.
I enjoy the sight of hot women.
I enjoy the sight of fictional portrayals of women whose proportions are exaggerated beyond realistic expectation, up to a point.
Therefore, video games that feature such women are likely to catch my eye to one extent or another.
Note that this does not mean that I enjoy games that feature such women regardless of the game's actual quality. A shit game is a shit game regardless of character design.
Now, as how all of this is related to Dragon's Crown, this is a Vanillaware game, and Vanillaware has made some outstanding games, Muramasa and Odin Sphere among them. It stands to reason that I should be able to expect at least a similar level of quality in Dragon's Crown as in their previous efforts. I also happen to enjoy Vanillaware's favored art style. Therefore, I feel I have good reason to look forward to this game.
If you had been reading my entire argument you would understand that I have nothing against sex in video games. It is meaningless sex being marketed to gamers which offends me. It makes the industry seem immature because we've fallen back on tropes like "sex sells" just to get attention.
@Hailinel: And again, I'm not trying to forbid and condemn anybody for playing these games. If they make great games, that's fine. I'm saying that it is pathetic that they are using the exaggerated women to sell the game, and that by doing that they make the game industry look immature.
@Hailinel: And again, I'm not trying to forbid and condemn anybody for playing these games. If they make great games, that's fine. I'm saying that it is pathetic that they are using the exaggerated women to sell the game, and that by doing that they make the game industry look immature.
Different games appeal to different tastes and audiences. To think that this one game, by itself, makes the industry as a whole look immature is an absurdity.
@HatKing: I don't like jumping into arguments, but this is really stupid and has gone on to the point of turning this thread into a PM.
Please point out where in the trailer, exactly, they are using sex to sell. All I see is are extremely exaggerated character designs. At no point do they zoom in on cleavage or have any of the characters doing anything overtly sexual. Your assertion that this was anything more than an aesthetic choice is completely ridiculous. If large breasts make you that uncomfortable then maybe you should avoid all media aimed towards a mature audience.
This is a great looking game made by a development team with a track record of fantastic art and animation and you are trying to sell it short as some kind of interactive ecchi.
@Hailinel: Because, in this case, it's not just sex. They're demeaning women by using them (entirely physically) to sell games. I mean, if this game is meant to be something along the lines of pornography, that's fine. But the OP shouldn't be surprised when people are offended by it. Further, pushing it as something more mainstream makes the entire industry look bad to any female gamers looking to get involved in the community.
You'd be surprised at how many women don't care about tits.
EDIT: Besides, anyone who thinks boobs are being used to market this game is probably stupid, we all know that the people who are going to buy this are getting because its another Vanillaware game, they have a niche market who likes looking at insane 2D art and the kinds of games that team makes. I'll be really fucking surprised if anyone buys this just because they like boobs.
@Icemael: My we're accusatory. If you had been reading my entire argument you would understand that I have nothing against sex in video games. It is meaningless sex being marketed to gamers which offends me. It makes the industry seem immature because we've fallen back on tropes like "sex sells" just to get attention.
It's not meaningless. Nothing that's enjoyable is meaningless. In fact: anything that is, is the exact opposite of meaningless. And who cares if some people see the industry as immature? What need have you of their approval?
I, for one, enjoy violent games with attractive women, and that's all that matters to me. I'll keep playing them even if the entire world thinks it's immature.
Christ, a game can be amazing, but that doesn't excuse the art style. People are talking about this because of how weirdly sexualized the characters are with such weird proportions. You can say all you want about how childish people are being, but the game is sexualized in really noticeable ways, so its pretty hard to see the game for its gameplay and nothing else.
Christ, a game can be amazing, but that doesn't excuse the art style. People are talking about this because of how weirdly sexualized the characters are with such weird proportions. You can say all you want about how childish people are being, but the game is sexualized in really noticeable ways, so its pretty hard to see the game for its gameplay and nothing else.
You're being incredibly short-sighted and ignoring Vanillaware's entire development history.
Yeah, so they have a history of making good games? Having a cool lineage is great and it probably means the game is good too, hell, the gameplay does look fun, but that still doesn't make the art style not noticable. The game does have good gameplay, but the art style is mainly what the developer's been showing off, from most of the coverage done by your average websites that i've seen it looks like a hack and slash with a super sexualized art style with nothing crazy going on. The arguement is that people are being childish by noticing the art style, when its so crazily proportioned and so in your face right out the gate. Short version of what i've said is that its hard not to notice the artstyle when at first glance the game looks super generic, to the average person atleast.
Why the hell is everyone freaking out about all the TnA in this game. They're clearly paying homage to frank frazetta and the way in the early days that people put a naked lady and barbarian on the cover to get sells.
This shit worked! Now get a load of this.
This kind of stuff came out like 30 years ago and I'm pretty sure a bunch of adventurers aren't going to stand around and talk about their feelings instead of saving barely naked babes. Besides the guy who made this game made the old dungeons and dragons arcade hack and slasher so this shit is must be normal to him so in essence lighten up unless you love shitstorms.
Exactly. It seems that everyone just glazes of the fact that the game is just a parody. You want to see something that's really disgusting...
Ughh! Just look at the proportions on this representation of a the female figure. It's so sexist. Just look at the huge boobs. It must have been made by a teenager.
( fine print: ^ that is the Venus of Willendorf. It is one of the oldest known pieces of art that dates back to 23,000-ish B.C.)
I didn't even know this was a thing. Great job making it worse for your side of the argument I guess. EDIT: Also, this is not a dwarf. Dwarfs don't look like this: "Dwarf"
That is one fucking awesome looking dwarf!
HE BLOCKS ATTACKS BY FLEXING.
He is everything awesome about dwarves in general.
Tell that to the people losing their shit over how Lara Croft looked in the newest Tomb Raider. There was a topic "is Lara too pretty?" we live in an age where complaining is easy, quick and reaches millions instantly.
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