#1 Edited by mao16 (107 posts) -

Sure there aren't many actual reviews and they are mostly from the big guys but this has to be the first time a numbered Dynasty Warriors game is getting critical praise in a long time. I've enjoyed the spin off stuff like empires but have stayed away from the numbered ones since... well they were just bad. Now I don't care about review scores but when almost everyone is giving you 5/10s you know something is wrong and vice versa.

Might actually give this a shot.

Heh, the japanese dub as free dlc is coming too. I'd much rather listen to bad japanese voice acting (granted it's actually sorta almost "decent") compared to bad english voice acting any day of the week. Now I seriously am considering getting it. ....now if only they had chinese voice acting

#2 Posted by falserelic (5334 posts) -

I've completely forgot this game was released. I never was a huge Dynasty Warriors fan. The series always bored me overtime, but I'm glad its getting good reviews. My friend is a huge fan of the DW series, and I'm sure he'll have a good time.

#3 Posted by Dayve86 (48 posts) -

Yeah I might as well. Everyone is saying it's a return to form. I'm going to wait a bit more until there's more of a conscious.

#4 Posted by Reisz (1461 posts) -

Eighth time's the charm?

I think the last DW I played was like 2? I miiiiiight give this a shot if this review trend continues. I figured just about everyone had written off Dynasty Warriors like seven years ago. Although I know there are apparently people for whom Dynasty Warriors is their Madden or Call of Duty it must do gangbusters in Japan right?

For KOEI and their fans I hope it turns out to be awesome.

#5 Edited by TruthTellah (8577 posts) -

I'm rather shocked as well. Does this mean fans of the previous games will be pissed while others start to see the appeal?

(also, I swear I saw a Dynasty Warriors 8 Quick Look on the front page just a little while ago, but now it's listed for tomorrow. I wonder what happened.)

#6 Posted by TheHT (10933 posts) -

Hm, I wonder what's new this time around. I had tons of fun with 7.

#7 Posted by phampire (282 posts) -

It still looks and plays like dynasty warriors. Strangely enough the quick look did go up early for a brief moment. I opened another tab to browse and it was gone. I still managed to watch it because i didn't refresh the page in the first tab.

#8 Edited by LeYcH (216 posts) -
@theht said:

Hm, I wonder what's new this time around. I had tons of fun with 7.

Other than no more cloned movesets and every character having a different weapon, there's various new mechanics implemented into the game to change things up and keep the gameplay (kinda) interesting while keeping the core of what makes Dynasty Warriors fun.

I was shocked when I saw Destructoid giving it a 9/10 and IGN give it a 8.7/10. Being a Warriors fan you're pretty much always prepared to see 5/10 when the game gets released.

#9 Edited by Random45 (1065 posts) -

Wow, I remember when my brother and I first got our PS2 and we bought Dynasty Warrior 3 and played the HELL out off it. Seriously, we probably dropped over 200 hours into that game, maybe more. It's kind of nostalgic just thinking of Dynasty Warriors, so if this one is really good, I might just go ahead and give it a try.

#10 Posted by Aegon (5419 posts) -

These games have always seemed like boring beat 'em ups. Is it not so?

#11 Posted by CitizenCoffeeCake (477 posts) -

Cool. Seeing as how I haven't played a Dynasty Warriors game since the early ones on PS2, I would like to give this one a shot.

#12 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

Orochi 3 seems perfectly competent as Warriors games go, also had a decent amount of fun with Strikeforce on the PSP.

#13 Posted by TheBlackPigeon (314 posts) -

Picked it up on PSN this Tuesday.

Shit's mad dope, son.

#14 Posted by Silver-Streak (1340 posts) -

I haven't enjoyed a Dynasty game since they took out create a warrior.

Especially with the Dynasty Warrior Gundam games. Let me make my own giant robot fighter.

#15 Posted by OneKillWonder_ (1698 posts) -

Dynasty Warriors 2 was cool. Pretty sure that's the last one I played, and pretty sure that I've missed nothing at all from this series since then.

Maybe I'll give this a shot some day. As long as I can still get my Lu Bu fix, I'll be satisfied. Lu Bu's my fucking boy!

#16 Edited by Make_Me_Mad (3023 posts) -

@eujin: The create-a-warrior has kind of transformed into an Empires-edition thing. Check out Dynasty Warriors 7 empires if you're into that; it's pretty good. The game itself is also better than the standard Dynasty Warriors series, in my opinion. While I used to check them all out, these days I kinda just wait for the inevitable Empires version, because I enjoy them much more.

#17 Posted by Hailinel (23978 posts) -

Dynasty Warriors 2 was cool. Pretty sure that's the last one I played, and pretty sure that I've missed nothing at all from this series since then.

Maybe I'll give this a shot some day. As long as I can still get my Lu Bu fix, I'll be satisfied. Lu Bu's my fucking boy!

You'd honestly be surprised by how much the series has evolved in the meantime, then.

Also, a couple of years ago, I noted that Dynasty Warriors 7 is the best Dynasty Warriors. I've only completed the Wei campaign in DW8 so far, but this game is even better. The story mode has been improved over DW7's (which in itself was a massive improvement over all previous story modes in the franchise), the combat system is the most robust of any entry, and everything just feels so damn smooth.

Online
#18 Edited by Anwar (853 posts) -

@hailinel: Does that mean they could finally make a good Fist of the North Star game?

#19 Posted by JackSukeru (5906 posts) -

Cool, I played a bunch of Orochi 3 and though it was pretty neat. repetitive for sure, but with enough to mix up the mashing to make it a good podcast game.

I also played Kamen Rider Battride War so I've seen the bad side of these games as well.

I won't say for sure that I'll pick it up 'cause I have a lot of quality games on my plate after the Steam sale, that I want to dig into more, but I'll keep it in mind over the coming months.

#20 Edited by Breadfan (6589 posts) -

Played the fuck out of Dynasty Warriors 3. It blows my mind that this series is still alive.

#21 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

@breadfan: Devoted (if foolish) sizable fanbase here, enormous fanbase in Japan. Now if Koei made a Kessen every year that would be awesome.

#22 Posted by oraknabo (1453 posts) -

@breadfan: Devoted (if foolish) sizable fanbase here, enormous fanbase in Japan. Now if Koei made a Kessen every year that would be awesome.

Yeah, I could go for a next-gen Kessen.

#23 Edited by Yummylee (21302 posts) -

Well now... I recently went into a complete DW binge, investing an unhealthy amount of hours into a stupid amount of these games. These were Samurai Warriors, Samurai Warriors 2+Empires, Dynasty Warriors 5+Empires, Dynasty Warriors 7, Warrors Orochi 1+2+3, and even Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3...

And the majority are all a bunch of shit. I at least ended up genuinely enjoying the first Samurai Warriors, Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires, and Warriors Orochi 3. And Samurai Warriors 2 (and Empires) was the only one that I outright loathed, whereas the rest were mostly mediocre or at least highly flawed. But even with SW2 I put in like 30 hours!.. And that was the one I fucking hated! Those were some dark times, I can't deny.

I still haven't quite given up on this... conglomerate just yet, though. I won't be buying DW8 new, but I'll definitely be more open in getting it a little earlier than, say, 2 years after release. The whole concept behind these games still sounds like the best thing, and I'm hoping they'll one day be able to finally nail it down.

EDIT: Wait, no more clone characters anymore?? Well this already sounds a helluva lot better than DW7. Playing its story mode was a fucking drag, since half of the playable story cast all happened to be sword guys.

#24 Posted by SomeDeliCook (2233 posts) -

Last time I played one was Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires, I think it is time to play a new one.

#25 Posted by insane_shadowblade85 (1401 posts) -

I stopped playing these games back at 4 but if it's getting good reviews then I'll check it out. I'm going to start looking for videos to see if I like what I see.

#26 Posted by Animasta (14651 posts) -

@hailinel: I gotta ask... how does the story mode change? Is it not the same scenarios each game? Yellow Turban rebellion, other such wars and rebellions... (asian history is not my forte, especially that early).

#27 Posted by Hailinel (23978 posts) -

@yummylee said:

Well now... I recently went into a complete DW binge, investing an unhealthy amount of hours into a stupid amount of these games. These were Samurai Warriors, Samurai Warriors 2+Empires, Dynasty Warriors 5+Empires, Dynasty Warriors 7, Warrors Orochi 1+2+3, and even Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3...

And the majority are all a bunch of shit. I at least ended up genuinely enjoying the first Samurai Warriors, Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires, and Warriors Orochi 3. And Samurai Warriors 2 (and Empires) was the only one that I outright loathed, whereas the rest were mostly mediocre or at least highly flawed. But even with SW2 I put in like 30 hours!.. And that was the one I fucking hated! Those were some dark times, I can't deny.

I still haven't quite given up on this... conglomerate just yet, though. I won't be buying DW8 new, but I'll definitely be more open in getting it a little earlier than, say, 2 years after release. The whole concept behind these games still sounds like the best thing, and I'm hoping they'll one day be able to finally nail it down.

EDIT: Wait, no more clone characters anymore?? Well this already sounds a helluva lot better than DW7. Playing its story mode was a fucking drag, since half of the playable story cast all happened to be sword guys.

You were free to change the weapons to whatever you like. I believe that there were some exceptions, but you weren't limited to sword guys being sword guys. If you wanted to switch things up, you could.

Also, Samurai Warriors 2 is one of my favorite games in the series. Seriously, I played the survival Castle Mode in the Xtreme Legends expansion to an unhealthy degree. It was also a major reason why I clocked in well over a hundred hours on the first Samurai Warriors. (Thirty hours in Samurai Warriors 2? You fucking slacker. :P)

I wasn't much of a fan of DW5 and DW6 is loathed even by hardcore fans, but DW7 was a major return to form and DW8 is far and away the best game mechanically out of all of them. I mostly lost interest in Dynasty Warriors: Gundam after the first game, which I enjoyed. Gundam 2 I didn't play much of and Gundam 3's story mode was an unfortunate mess.

And to top things off, Ken's Rage 2 is actually a pretty big improvement over the first Ken's Rage.

Online
#28 Posted by Hailinel (23978 posts) -

@animasta said:

@hailinel: I gotta ask... how does the story mode change? Is it not the same scenarios each game? Yellow Turban rebellion, other such wars and rebellions... (asian history is not my forte, especially that early).

In Dynasty Warriors 7, they started from scratch and created linear stories for the Wei, Wu, and Shu factions, and also introduced the Jin faction. In each faction's story, the character you play is determined by the chapter, rather than selecting a character and playing through a series of stages. And while it's still a loose adaptation, it was also to that point much, much closer to the source novel in terms of story than any of the previous games. The Jin faction also changed things significantly by pushing the story beyond the usual end point, depicting the fall of the three kingdoms under the banner of the Jin Dynasty.

In DW8, the idea behind the story mode is similar, but rather than restrict you to a single character for a given story mode stage, you're given a choice of between 2-4 characters. The story is also a looser interpretation (it has to be, in order to allow characters like Sun Shangxiang on the battlefield), but they introduce new player characters that add twists to the narratives that they tell.

And as for the Yellow Turban Rebellion, it isn't a playable stage in the majority of the story modes. Wei and Wu both begin at points following the Yellow Turban Rebellion and the Jin storyline begins far later. But suffice it to say, Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a long story filled with battles. The typical battles covered in so many of the games (Yellow Turbans, Battle of Chibi, etc.) really just scratch the surface and DW7 and 8 have done a better job of both branching out the story into other conflicts and finding new ways to depict the ones they've run ragged.

Online
#29 Edited by Giantstalker (1541 posts) -

Hmm, this might be the first Dynasty Warriors game I ever pick up and play. I'm almost kinda stoked about this, maybe.

#30 Posted by Animasta (14651 posts) -

@hailinel: all those words you said meant nothing to my sleep addled mind, other than that'd sound cool if I was into chinese history.

speaking of, I'm surprised no one's done a medieval europe version of dynasty warriors.

#31 Posted by Hailinel (23978 posts) -

@animasta said:

@hailinel: all those words you said meant nothing to my sleep addled mind, other than that'd sound cool if I was into chinese history.

speaking of, I'm surprised no one's done a medieval europe version of dynasty warriors.

Omega Force did develop Bladestorm: The Hundred Years' War, but that's less Dynasty Warriors and more an attempt at something different. They did include Bladestorm's version of Joan of Arc as a player character in Warriors Orochi 3, however.

Online
#32 Edited by Yummylee (21302 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@yummylee said:

Well now... I recently went into a complete DW binge, investing an unhealthy amount of hours into a stupid amount of these games. These were Samurai Warriors, Samurai Warriors 2+Empires, Dynasty Warriors 5+Empires, Dynasty Warriors 7, Warrors Orochi 1+2+3, and even Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3...

And the majority are all a bunch of shit. I at least ended up genuinely enjoying the first Samurai Warriors, Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires, and Warriors Orochi 3. And Samurai Warriors 2 (and Empires) was the only one that I outright loathed, whereas the rest were mostly mediocre or at least highly flawed. But even with SW2 I put in like 30 hours!.. And that was the one I fucking hated! Those were some dark times, I can't deny.

I still haven't quite given up on this... conglomerate just yet, though. I won't be buying DW8 new, but I'll definitely be more open in getting it a little earlier than, say, 2 years after release. The whole concept behind these games still sounds like the best thing, and I'm hoping they'll one day be able to finally nail it down.

EDIT: Wait, no more clone characters anymore?? Well this already sounds a helluva lot better than DW7. Playing its story mode was a fucking drag, since half of the playable story cast all happened to be sword guys.

You were free to change the weapons to whatever you like. I believe that there were some exceptions, but you weren't limited to sword guys being sword guys. If you wanted to switch things up, you could.

Also, Samurai Warriors 2 is one of my favorite games in the series. Seriously, I played the survival Castle Mode in the Xtreme Legends expansion to an unhealthy degree. It was also a major reason why I clocked in well over a hundred hours on the first Samurai Warriors. (Thirty hours in Samurai Warriors 2? You fucking slacker. :P)

I wasn't much of a fan of DW5 and DW6 is loathed even by hardcore fans, but DW7 was a major return to form and DW8 is far and away the best game mechanically out of all of them. I mostly lost interest in Dynasty Warriors: Gundam after the first game, which I enjoyed. Gundam 2 I didn't play much of and Gundam 3's story mode was an unfortunate mess.

And to top things off, Ken's Rage 2 is actually a pretty big improvement over the first Ken's Rage.

I never switched my weapons because i liked to stay in character. It just wouldn't feel right to be swinging around those claw blades as Sun Quan for example. Plus, I felt like I was potentially ruining my opportunities to then discover how other characters played if I were to start using their weapons as other characters. It really irked me because even in DW5, every character was unique and was different in some way; most sword characters were of course rather similar, but their combos would never match exactly. There's much more of a difference between Sun Jian and Sun Quan in DW5 than there is in DW7, where they're just outright clones, right up to their own musuo attacks.

As for SW2... ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff--I hated that game so damn much. It's been a while so unfortunately the particulars escape me, but I remember that it was incredibly difficult. I rarely felt powerful in that game and I was often just running away, especially when they'd start throwing opposing named characters who could sometimes kill you in one quick combo... Plus in the story mode they'll often set the odds against at a ridiculous degree, even if narratively speaking your character's just gained themselves a whole new army or something. The final chapter for that samurai lady with the electric sword I can remember were especially tough... But it never felt fair; like, it was only difficult because the enemies did an absurd amount of damage, and my only defensive maneuvers are to block--but only directly in front of me, which is one such flaw I've always especially disliked; if I'm constantly surrounded by enemies, why can't I have a block that allows me to defend from all angles PS2 LOTR games style?--or to use that pitiful roll ability, which was borderline useless.

Oh God, I just remembered one mission (I think this also with the electric sword lady) where none of your allies where allowed to die, otherwise it's game over... And with AI as legendarily stupid as can be found in this series, you're only inviting in frustration when I have to protect a whole squad of them.

Plus even by the Warriors standards, the voice acting and writing were absolutely horrendous. Oh, and finally Ranmu Mori doesn't have his own story, and he was one of my favourite characters to play as in the original SW. So, there's that too I guess.

EDIT: If there is one thing i liked about SW2, it's the main menu music. That would always have me scrolling through the menu options in line with the beat.

#33 Posted by Hailinel (23978 posts) -

@yummylee said:

@hailinel said:

@yummylee said:

Well now... I recently went into a complete DW binge, investing an unhealthy amount of hours into a stupid amount of these games. These were Samurai Warriors, Samurai Warriors 2+Empires, Dynasty Warriors 5+Empires, Dynasty Warriors 7, Warrors Orochi 1+2+3, and even Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3...

And the majority are all a bunch of shit. I at least ended up genuinely enjoying the first Samurai Warriors, Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires, and Warriors Orochi 3. And Samurai Warriors 2 (and Empires) was the only one that I outright loathed, whereas the rest were mostly mediocre or at least highly flawed. But even with SW2 I put in like 30 hours!.. And that was the one I fucking hated! Those were some dark times, I can't deny.

I still haven't quite given up on this... conglomerate just yet, though. I won't be buying DW8 new, but I'll definitely be more open in getting it a little earlier than, say, 2 years after release. The whole concept behind these games still sounds like the best thing, and I'm hoping they'll one day be able to finally nail it down.

EDIT: Wait, no more clone characters anymore?? Well this already sounds a helluva lot better than DW7. Playing its story mode was a fucking drag, since half of the playable story cast all happened to be sword guys.

You were free to change the weapons to whatever you like. I believe that there were some exceptions, but you weren't limited to sword guys being sword guys. If you wanted to switch things up, you could.

Also, Samurai Warriors 2 is one of my favorite games in the series. Seriously, I played the survival Castle Mode in the Xtreme Legends expansion to an unhealthy degree. It was also a major reason why I clocked in well over a hundred hours on the first Samurai Warriors. (Thirty hours in Samurai Warriors 2? You fucking slacker. :P)

I wasn't much of a fan of DW5 and DW6 is loathed even by hardcore fans, but DW7 was a major return to form and DW8 is far and away the best game mechanically out of all of them. I mostly lost interest in Dynasty Warriors: Gundam after the first game, which I enjoyed. Gundam 2 I didn't play much of and Gundam 3's story mode was an unfortunate mess.

And to top things off, Ken's Rage 2 is actually a pretty big improvement over the first Ken's Rage.

I never switched my weapons because i liked to stay in character. It just wouldn't feel right to be swinging around those claw blades as Sun Quan for example. Plus, I felt like I was potentially ruining my opportunities to then discover how other characters played if I were to start using their weapons as other characters. It really irked me because even in DW5, every character was unique and was different in some way; most sword characters were of course rather similar, but their combos would never match exactly. There's much more of a difference between Sun Jian and Sun Quan in DW5 than there is in DW7, where they're just outright clones, right up to their own musuo attacks.

As for SW2... ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff--I hated that game so damn much. It's been a while so unfortunately the particulars escape me, but I remember that it was incredibly difficult. I rarely felt powerful in that game and I was often just running away, especially when they'd start throwing opposing named characters who could sometimes kill you in one quick combo... Plus in the story mode they'll often set the odds against at a ridiculous degree, even if narratively speaking your character's just gained themselves a whole new army or something. The final chapter for that samurai lady with the electric sword I can remember were especially tough... But it never felt fair; like, it was only difficult because the enemies did an absurd amount of damage, and my only defensive maneuvers are to block--but only directly in front of me, which is one such flaw I've always especially disliked; if I'm constantly surrounded by enemies, why can't I have a block that allows me to defend from all angles PS2 LOTR games style?--or to use that pitiful roll ability, which was borderline useless.

Oh God, I just remembered one mission (I think this also with the electric sword lady) where none of your allies where allowed to die, otherwise it's game over... And with AI as legendarily stupid as can be found in this series, you're only inviting in frustration when I have to protect a whole squad of them.

Plus even by the Warriors standards, the voice acting and writing were absolutely horrendous. Oh, and finally Ranmu Mori doesn't have his own story, and he was one of my favourite characters to play as in the original SW. So, there's that too I guess.

EDIT: If there is one thing i liked about SW2, it's the main menu music. That would always have me scrolling through the menu options in line with the beat.

Yeah, the later stages in SW2 could get hard, but there was a way around that. Free Mode and Castle Mode. I spent so much time in those game modes hat my characters powered up. I especially played the shit out of those modes with Ginchiyo (electric samurai lady, also my avatar) to the point that the story mode for her was much easier. Replaying those earlier stages also let me get really good at clearing them, too.

Online
#34 Posted by Yummylee (21302 posts) -

@hailinel: But I shouldn't need to do so much extra grinding. Considering the difficulty is pretty consistent across all of the characters, I would have to (and did) grind earlier levels just to finish the finals ones, which is unnecessary padding for a game that is already pretty stuffed as it is. During my time in the original SW, I was able to complete basically all of the stories straight through, without any extra grinding necessary. Same with DW5 and DW7.

Frankly one of the biggest problems I have with the Warriors series in general is when it'll occasionally decide it wants to be challenging. Because all that accomplishes is the series shining the spotlight on how shallow its combat systems actually are, especially when it comes to defense. I can remember many a time in SW2 in particular where I'll be constantly getting knocked over again and again, often getting juggled outright in the air with no reprieve, and no possible way to escape this giant mob I'm stuck in. In fact that's part of why I liked Orochi 3 so much, since you can always quickly jump to another character which'll cancel the juggle and allow you to regain your footing.

The Warriors series for me works best when it's mindless mashy fun, and the relative ease of Orochi 3 is another reason why I found it to be so much more appealing than the majority of its predecessors. That, and hurling a seemingly never ending flurry of bombs with Nō is never not hilarious.

Also, adding to the reasons why I would love for all copies of SW2 to be sent into the sun: I kinda missed the more downtrodden and gritty atmosphere of the original Samurai Warriors. My first thought when playing it was how much it reminded me of the Onimusha series.

#35 Edited by Raven10 (1740 posts) -

I'm interested to see where they go next generation. I feel like Omega Force was about a decade too soon to do this concept justice when they first created it. It's gotten a bit better this generation but after seeing Ryse at E3 I think it is safe to say that next gen consoles are certainly capable of making a Dynasty Warriors game that actually fulfills the promise of the initial games. Whether or not Omega Force will be given the time and budget to make good on that potential is another question, but for the first time I feel like there is at least the possibility of a good rendition of a Romance of the Three Kingdoms battle.

#36 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

@yummylee: SW1 and it's expansion are probably the height of the warriors' series for me, they have by far the highest production values for the time, brand new systems and characters, and just superb english voice acting. SW2 by comparison has atrocious VO and sort of generally feels like a retread of the exact same stuff with no further development (i.e. like almost any other Warriors sequel). Most of the good stuff in DW8/Orochi 3 originated from SW1 it just took them 8 or 9 years to fully integrate the good concepts from those games into a new one. Due to this I basically tend to go for new IPs that Koei makes and ignore the old stuff (Kessen being the only series that got noticeably better with each installment, RoTK IX aside), but they seem to have finally hit a decent streak in mainline Warriors titles (though the combat in Trinity: Souls of Zill O'll is still way better). My old thought process that once every 3 DW games one would be worth picking up because they'd finally have made an advancement and the last one I bought was DW5... but I just bought Orochi 3 so I'll probably just keep playing that.

#37 Posted by jclane (336 posts) -

Oh Dynasty Warriors, whenever I see the term 'guilty pleasure', there you are.

Quick look coming today. No doubt Jeff will still not like pushing X to make 1000 K.Os, and oddly I'm fine with that.

#38 Posted by Hailinel (23978 posts) -

@yummylee said:

@hailinel: But I shouldn't need to do so much extra grinding. Considering the difficulty is pretty consistent across all of the characters, I would have to (and did) grind earlier levels just to finish the finals ones, which is unnecessary padding for a game that is already pretty stuffed as it is. During my time in the original SW, I was able to complete basically all of the stories straight through, without any extra grinding necessary. Same with DW5 and DW7.

Frankly one of the biggest problems I have with the Warriors series in general is when it'll occasionally decide it wants to be challenging. Because all that accomplishes is the series shining the spotlight on how shallow its combat systems actually are, especially when it comes to defense. I can remember many a time in SW2 in particular where I'll be constantly getting knocked over again and again, often getting juggled outright in the air with no reprieve, and no possible way to escape this giant mob I'm stuck in. In fact that's part of why I liked Orochi 3 so much, since you can always quickly jump to another character which'll cancel the juggle and allow you to regain your footing.

The Warriors series for me works best when it's mindless mashy fun, and the relative ease of Orochi 3 is another reason why I found it to be so much more appealing than the majority of its predecessors. That, and hurling a seemingly never ending flurry of bombs with Nō is never not hilarious.

Also, adding to the reasons why I would love for all copies of SW2 to be sent into the sun: I kinda missed the more downtrodden and gritty atmosphere of the original Samurai Warriors. My first thought when playing it was how much it reminded me of the Onimusha series.

Well, the thing is, you don't need to do the extra grinding. It's purely optional. That's just how I did things. And the games are, in general, about as challenging as you want, with multiple difficulty levels and the ability to power up your guys. You could run through stages with a powered up character on easy or crank the difficulty up to Chaos and try not to die with a low-level character. I'm not saying that the games can't be mindless fun, but if that's all you expect out of these games, you just leave yourself unprepared. These aren't games that can be won by just running forward with no regard to defense or awareness of how surrounded you are and hammering the square button all day long.

@yummylee: SW1 and it's expansion are probably the height of the warriors' series for me, they have by far the highest production values for the time, brand new systems and characters, and just superb english voice acting. SW2 by comparison has atrocious VO and sort of generally feels like a retread of the exact same stuff with no further development (i.e. like almost any other Warriors sequel). Most of the good stuff in DW8/Orochi 3 originated from SW1 it just took them 8 or 9 years to fully integrate the good concepts from those games into a new one. Due to this I basically tend to go for new IPs that Koei makes and ignore the old stuff (Kessen being the only series that got noticeably better with each installment, RoTK IX aside), but they seem to have finally hit a decent streak in mainline Warriors titles (though the combat in Trinity: Souls of Zill O'll is still way better). My old thought process that once every 3 DW games one would be worth picking up because they'd finally have made an advancement and the last one I bought was DW5... but I just bought Orochi 3 so I'll probably just keep playing that.

Actually, DW8 is more a mix of elements that originated in Samurai Warriors, Dynasty Warriors 5 and 7, among other games. And even though I've pumped over a hundred hours into Warriors Orochi 3, I'm enjoying DW8, just like I also enjoyed Ken's Rage 2 earlier this year. The Warriors game I played recently that I don't like that much is Dynasty Warriors Next on the Vita, but that has more to do with the fact that it tries way too hard to justify its existence as a Vita game with needless touch screen and touch pad quick time events. And the Punch-Out like officer duels where you have to touch and swipe the screen like a madman are the worst part of the game. Speaking of quick time events...

@raven10 said:

I'm interested to see where they go next generation. I feel like Omega Force was about a decade too soon to do this concept justice when they first created it. It's gotten a bit better this generation but after seeing Ryse at E3 I think it is safe to say that next gen consoles are certainly capable of making a Dynasty Warriors game that actually fulfills the promise of the initial games. Whether or not Omega Force will be given the time and budget to make good on that potential is another question, but for the first time I feel like there is at least the possibility of a good rendition of a Romance of the Three Kingdoms battle.

From what I saw of the E3 demo, Ryse is like 95% quick time events. And while Omega Force dropped the ball at the start of the generation with DW6, Dynasty Warriors 7 and 8 are both very strong, well-realized games.

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#40 Edited by Raven10 (1740 posts) -

@hailinel: I'm not really talking gameplay wise. It's more that from a technical standpoint there were dozens of dudes on screen fighting a battle. As in everyone was fighting, not just three or four of them. And the battlefield was being destroyed and so on. It felt like an actual battle. Now I'm not saying Dynasty Warriors 9 should play like Ryse, just that from a technical standpoint it now seems possible to show all these people on screen fighting. Just watching the quick look today it was shocking how enemies would just appear five feet in front of the player and the whole game seemed to run in slow motion. Just being able to have an open battlefield that you can see most of from every location would be a huge improvement from a playability standpoint. They wouldn't even have to change the controls. Back at the very beginning of this generation Gametrailers did a review of Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires I believe where they said that this series more than most others had its quality tied very directly to the power of the system it was running on. Being able to see enemies from a distance and having the game run well while being able to see all those enemies alone will be a huge improvement. Add in the possibility for more interactive environments and soldiers that actually fight each other instead of just standing staring and you have the recipe for a game that actually comes close to capturing the intensity of an actual battle.

#41 Edited by WanderingNewbie (21 posts) -

Apparently it's just the Xbox version that is hit with the slowdown , it was originally made for the PS3 and ported to the Xbox by a 3rd party, shittily, hence the slowdown. The PS3 experiences zero slowdown. They are working on a Xbox patch as well.

#42 Edited by Yummylee (21302 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@yummylee said:

@hailinel: But I shouldn't need to do so much extra grinding. Considering the difficulty is pretty consistent across all of the characters, I would have to (and did) grind earlier levels just to finish the finals ones, which is unnecessary padding for a game that is already pretty stuffed as it is. During my time in the original SW, I was able to complete basically all of the stories straight through, without any extra grinding necessary. Same with DW5 and DW7.

Frankly one of the biggest problems I have with the Warriors series in general is when it'll occasionally decide it wants to be challenging. Because all that accomplishes is the series shining the spotlight on how shallow its combat systems actually are, especially when it comes to defense. I can remember many a time in SW2 in particular where I'll be constantly getting knocked over again and again, often getting juggled outright in the air with no reprieve, and no possible way to escape this giant mob I'm stuck in. In fact that's part of why I liked Orochi 3 so much, since you can always quickly jump to another character which'll cancel the juggle and allow you to regain your footing.

The Warriors series for me works best when it's mindless mashy fun, and the relative ease of Orochi 3 is another reason why I found it to be so much more appealing than the majority of its predecessors. That, and hurling a seemingly never ending flurry of bombs with Nō is never not hilarious.

Also, adding to the reasons why I would love for all copies of SW2 to be sent into the sun: I kinda missed the more downtrodden and gritty atmosphere of the original Samurai Warriors. My first thought when playing it was how much it reminded me of the Onimusha series.

Well, the thing is, you don't need to do the extra grinding. It's purely optional. That's just how I did things. And the games are, in general, about as challenging as you want, with multiple difficulty levels and the ability to power up your guys. You could run through stages with a powered up character on easy or crank the difficulty up to Chaos and try not to die with a low-level character. I'm not saying that the games can't be mindless fun, but if that's all you expect out of these games, you just leave yourself unprepared. These aren't games that can be won by just running forward with no regard to defense or awareness of how surrounded you are and hammering the square button all day long.

I expect mindless fun from these games because that's all they are. They're 3D beat-em-ups, with very little depth besides mashing square (while adding in triangle for a little bit of extra flourish) and then just pressing the musuo button to watch a bunch of sparks and the kill counter go up. Especially in DW7, where my musou meter was filled up pretty much at all times, thanks to the hilarious amount of item drops I constantly kept picking up amidst fallen clone hordes.

And quite frankly, more often than not simply running headfirst into a massive mob of clones is precisely all I need to do to win. Which is good, since I'm not here for high mechanical prowess or anything, primarily because the game certainly doesn't offer it. The AI is borderline non-existent for the most part, and again whenever the game tries to actually become challenging, it merely pitches up the damage modifiers so most enemies are able to dish out an obscene amount of damage. For games that offer tight controls and the ability to actually stay out of danger--like most well made action series ala DMC, NG and Metal Gear Rising--then that's usually fine. But in the Warriors series you're often forced to rely on jumping around so as to hopefully avoid attacks, attempt to use that archaic block ability, or simply run away until your musuo bar fills up and can just press the ''kill everything'' button. That's again me primarily speaking from my experiences with DW7, since that along with Orochi 3 are the last two I was playing before I moved on onto other games.

Though I at least recall the Warriors Orochi games (1 and 2 anyway; also, Orochi 2 is another I was particularly displeased by, what with it being a framey mess on the 360, which boggles the mind as to why -- besides laziness anywhoo) had an ability where if you're being attacked enough, you could use up some of your musuo juice to counter the mob, knocking them all outta the way. I'm pretty sure that was only for a specific class of character, though. Still, that's the sorta thing the games need more of. If they could only throw in a block that allows you to actually block from something that isn't right in front of your face, with a more effective roll ability to boot, then we'll be getting somewhere. Everything @raven10 has said is also worth noting, too.

Also, another thing I've always hated in the Warriors series: Why is it that in when playing in coop, if one of you dies then the game is over? Why can't I just revive my friend like in every other game ever made? Similar deal with the Orochi series, too. I have three characters at my disposal, but once one of them dies the battle's finished? Why not just let me carry on playing with the remaining two?

I just wish they could cut out the annual releases and never ending spin offs and expansions, and actually buckle down and try to make the Warriors game to end all Warriors games. To actually try to make a game look like it exists in 2013 and beyond; better environmental detail, more variety of character models, physics, better horse riding animations, and so on. But of course, considering how so many people eat this series up despite only minor alterations, that's most likely never going to be.

#43 Edited by Raven10 (1740 posts) -

@yummylee: I think it's tough this generation to make individual elements of this series look good on current gen consoles. They could look better than they do, and they could at least run well looking as they are, but I'm really hoping next generation they'll have a much easier time with things. I was thinking that Shogun 2 Total War looks almost as good as these games when viewed up close but there are thousands of units in each battle and tons of effects and physics. But to make it look great you need a beast of a computer. On a mid-range system it is all but impossible to get even a steady 30 fps with most settings maxed out. Looking at Rome 2 I imagine Dynasty Warriors looking like that just with beat-em-up gameplay over strategy gameplay.

#44 Posted by themangalist (1728 posts) -

If you've actually read the reviews, those writers seem like they skipped Dynasty Warriors 7. A lot of stuff was present in that title already, and frankly I thought it was the best DW game after 4. I thought the advantage stuff and the rock paper scissors stuff was interesting but I doubt it has any effect on the gameplay. And soldiers STILL pop out of nowhere? That should have been fixed long ago; look at Viking: Battle for Asgard and Ninety Nine Nights, those games look better and had mirrions of troops. What the fuck Koei.

The only reason why I keep coming back to this series is that I love Romance of the Three Kingdoms. I always thought of it as the LotR of China, the literary work that influenced pretty much everything that came after it. Everytime I put the disc in a part of me dies inside: "I gave in to this little sucker again didn't I?" That is why the only addition that matters to me in DW8 is the branching paths for story mode like it was in 4.

#45 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

@themangalist: Three Kingdoms is much more influential than Lord of the Rings, it influences the entire culture of Eastern Asia. Kongming is (albeit erroneously) hailed as the finest strategist in Chinese history with regularity, Guan Yu (or Lord Guan) is the literal God of War, and it is basically the Iliad plus Grimm's fairy tales plus every other influential piece of work from western history. It's also about 70% historical, which as far as old histories go is pretty damn accurate. The prose is on par with Shakespeare so that's always a plus. It's a shame there's not a better game series to front such a mammoth work but what can you do, I guess having some games made about you is better than none.

#46 Posted by TheHT (10933 posts) -

You know what? Maybe I'll skip 8 and wait for a next gen 9, unless 9 comes out and is total shit at which point I'll get 8.

#47 Edited by Hailinel (23978 posts) -

@yummylee said:

@hailinel said:

@yummylee said:

@hailinel: But I shouldn't need to do so much extra grinding. Considering the difficulty is pretty consistent across all of the characters, I would have to (and did) grind earlier levels just to finish the finals ones, which is unnecessary padding for a game that is already pretty stuffed as it is. During my time in the original SW, I was able to complete basically all of the stories straight through, without any extra grinding necessary. Same with DW5 and DW7.

Frankly one of the biggest problems I have with the Warriors series in general is when it'll occasionally decide it wants to be challenging. Because all that accomplishes is the series shining the spotlight on how shallow its combat systems actually are, especially when it comes to defense. I can remember many a time in SW2 in particular where I'll be constantly getting knocked over again and again, often getting juggled outright in the air with no reprieve, and no possible way to escape this giant mob I'm stuck in. In fact that's part of why I liked Orochi 3 so much, since you can always quickly jump to another character which'll cancel the juggle and allow you to regain your footing.

The Warriors series for me works best when it's mindless mashy fun, and the relative ease of Orochi 3 is another reason why I found it to be so much more appealing than the majority of its predecessors. That, and hurling a seemingly never ending flurry of bombs with Nō is never not hilarious.

Also, adding to the reasons why I would love for all copies of SW2 to be sent into the sun: I kinda missed the more downtrodden and gritty atmosphere of the original Samurai Warriors. My first thought when playing it was how much it reminded me of the Onimusha series.

Well, the thing is, you don't need to do the extra grinding. It's purely optional. That's just how I did things. And the games are, in general, about as challenging as you want, with multiple difficulty levels and the ability to power up your guys. You could run through stages with a powered up character on easy or crank the difficulty up to Chaos and try not to die with a low-level character. I'm not saying that the games can't be mindless fun, but if that's all you expect out of these games, you just leave yourself unprepared. These aren't games that can be won by just running forward with no regard to defense or awareness of how surrounded you are and hammering the square button all day long.

I expect mindless fun from these games because that's all they are. They're 3D beat-em-ups, with very little depth besides mashing square (while adding in triangle for a little bit of extra flourish) and then just pressing the musuo button to watch a bunch of sparks and the kill counter go up. Especially in DW7, where my musou meter was filled up pretty much at all times, thanks to the hilarious amount of item drops I constantly kept picking up amidst fallen clone hordes.

And quite frankly, more often than not simply running headfirst into a massive mob of clones is precisely all I need to do to win. Which is good, since I'm not here for high mechanical prowess or anything, primarily because the game certainly doesn't offer it. The AI is borderline non-existent for the most part, and again whenever the game tries to actually become challenging, it merely pitches up the damage modifiers so most enemies are able to dish out an obscene amount of damage. For games that offer tight controls and the ability to actually stay out of danger--like most well made action series ala DMC, NG and Metal Gear Rising--then that's usually fine. But in the Warriors series you're often forced to rely on jumping around so as to hopefully avoid attacks, attempt to use that archaic block ability, or simply run away until your musuo bar fills up and can just press the ''kill everything'' button. That's again me primarily speaking from my experiences with DW7, since that along with Orochi 3 are the last two I was playing before I moved on onto other games.

Though I at least recall the Warriors Orochi games (1 and 2 anyway; also, Orochi 2 is another I was particularly displeased by, what with it being a framey mess on the 360, which boggles the mind as to why -- besides laziness anywhoo) had an ability where if you're being attacked enough, you could use up some of your musuo juice to counter the mob, knocking them all outta the way. I'm pretty sure that was only for a specific class of character, though. Still, that's the sorta thing the games need more of. If they could only throw in a block that allows you to actually block from something that isn't right in front of your face, with a more effective roll ability to boot, then we'll be getting somewhere. Everything @raven10 has said is also worth noting, too.

Also, another thing I've always hated in the Warriors series: Why is it that in when playing in coop, if one of you dies then the game is over? Why can't I just revive my friend like in every other game ever made? Similar deal with the Orochi series, too. I have three characters at my disposal, but once one of them dies the battle's finished? Why not just let me carry on playing with the remaining two?

I just wish they could cut out the annual releases and never ending spin offs and expansions, and actually buckle down and try to make the Warriors game to end all Warriors games. To actually try to make a game look like it exists in 2013 and beyond; better environmental detail, more variety of character models, physics, better horse riding animations, and so on. But of course, considering how so many people eat this series up despite only minor alterations, that's most likely never going to be.

You keep referring to the blocking ability as archaic, but if you could just block everything from every direction, how would that fix anything?

As for Warriors Orochi, all of the classes have their own special traits. Speed characters can perform air dashes, for example. And in terms of co-op, the fact that the game ends if one player dies is incentive to assist each other.

Basically, what it sounds like is you want the Warriors titles to be something they're not, which is sort of like complaining that Final Fantasy isn't Mass Effect.

EDIT: That sounded a lot ruder than I really intended. Sorry about that. It's been a tiring week at work and my mood was soured a bit by the user comments in the DW8 Quick Look. (Jeff and Vinny's comments...well, I've come to expect that from them.)

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#48 Edited by Yummylee (21302 posts) -

@hailinel said:

1. You keep referring to the blocking ability as archaic, but if you could just block everything from every direction, how would that fix anything?

2. As for Warriors Orochi, all of the classes have their own special traits. Speed characters can perform air dashes, for example. And in terms of co-op, the fact that the game ends if one player dies is incentive to assist each other.

3. Basically, what it sounds like is you want the Warriors titles to be something they're not, which is sort of like complaining that Final Fantasy isn't Mass Effect.

1. It would make it more functional, and would certainly help extinguish the frustration of getting knocked about from every angle as I attempt to defend myself amidst the clone army. I've otherwise found it to be utterly useless... but it's in there, so they clearly want you to have the ability to block attacks, but in its current state it almost be considered broken.

2. No... no no no no no. I mean... really? That is nothing but an excuse; it doesn't benefit the game in any way to not have some sort of revival mechanic in coop besides to annoy and to keep the game planted within its stale, antiquated design. Many games that prioritise coop feature that quick save because... well, that's how games work. It's unfair otherwise. And for a franchise that can sometimes be full of crazy difficulty spikes like this one, getting downed in seconds and thus pulling my friend down with me is absurd and needlessly harsh. Simply knowing that you can die, even with the knowledge that you can be revived, is enough incentive for 2 players to work together. There could be some room for something so hardcore in a game, but the Warriors series are most certainly not it.

3. I want the Warriors series to be of a much higher quality and for it to feature more potential combat tactics and mechanics to utilise. Basically I want them to be better games.

I love the whole idea behind riding along this huge, expansive battlefield, filled with hundreds of soldiers for you to cut down and an innumerable amount of characters for you to do it with. I love the idea of sieging bases/outposts, and taking them over as territory. Storming castles and fighting out these grand battles rooted in history. It's an incredibly appealing premise, and what I want is for those games to better replicate that with a much higher degree of quality.

Stating that I want to turn the series into something that it's not or whatever is one Hell of a stretch.

EDIT: After reading your own edit, now I feel bad for potentially coming across as antagonistic >_> Which isn't my intent; the Warriors series is just one that I've now played so damn much of in the past that I feel confident in talking about specifically why I'm constantly at odds with this series. I should once again reiterate that I have certainly enjoyed my time with specific entries of the franchise, but even with that said, it's just so easy to see that they could be so much more.

#49 Posted by redyoshi (135 posts) -

I'm definitely picking this up once I've finished a few playthroughs of SMT IV. It's already my favorite installment and I haven't even played it yet just because of that new instantly-get-on-the-horse thing. Running around the damn thing and waiting for the button prompt to show up while using a weaker, unleveled character on the harder difficulties was a serious pain in the ass. I was sold as soon as I saw it.

Also, I got into the series with DW7, so I'm not sure if this musou type was ever around before this new game, but the Awakening Musou seems a lot like the musous that the Samurai Warrior characters had in Orochi 3, where their attack animation continues as long as you hold it. Does that work in much the same way in this game? I really loved going up to the biggest horde I could find and just mopping up with Kai after picking up an infinite musou gauge jar.

#50 Posted by Hailinel (23978 posts) -

@yummylee said:

@hailinel said:

1. You keep referring to the blocking ability as archaic, but if you could just block everything from every direction, how would that fix anything?

2. As for Warriors Orochi, all of the classes have their own special traits. Speed characters can perform air dashes, for example. And in terms of co-op, the fact that the game ends if one player dies is incentive to assist each other.

3. Basically, what it sounds like is you want the Warriors titles to be something they're not, which is sort of like complaining that Final Fantasy isn't Mass Effect.

1. It would make it more functional, and would certainly help extinguish the frustration of getting knocked about from every angle as I attempt to defend myself amidst the clone army. I've otherwise found it to be utterly useless... but it's in there, so they clearly want you to have the ability to block attacks, but in its current state it almost be considered broken.

2. No... no no no no no. I mean... really? That is nothing but an excuse; it doesn't benefit the game in any way to not have some sort of revival mechanic in coop besides to annoy and to keep the game planted within its stale, antiquated design. Many games that prioritise coop feature that quick save because... well, that's how games work. It's unfair otherwise. And for a game that can sometimes be full of crazy difficulty spikes like this one, getting downed in seconds and thus pulling my friend down with me is absurd and needlessly harsh. Simply knowing that you can die, even with the knowledge that you can be revived, is enough incentive for 2 players to work together. There could be some room for something so hardcore, but the Warriors are most certainly not it.

3. I want the Warriors series to be of a much higher quality and for it to feature more potential combat tactics and mechanics to utilise. Basically I want them to be better games.

I love the whole idea behind riding along this huge, expansive battlefield, filled with hundreds of soldiers for you to cut down and an innumerable amount of characters for you to do it with. I love the idea of sieging bases/outposts, and taking them over as territory. Storming castles and fighting out these grand battles rooted in history. It's an incredibly appealing premise, and what I want is for those games to better replicate that with a much higher degree of quality.

Stating that I want to turn the series into something that it's not or whatever is one Hell of a stretch.

You might not have seen my edit to my previous post, but again, my apologies. I didn't intend to come off as rude as I did. I was short with you and I shouldn't have been.

1. I really don't agree. I've never had an issue with the blocking, and I don't think that making it all-encompassing would somehow fix it. I feel it really encourages me to just keep moving since I can't defend directly against anything aside from what's directly in front of me. But maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

2. It's not an excuse, it's just the way that the games are designed. And the design isn't something that's objectively bad. It's a style of co-op that asks both players to be on their toes and for one to help the other out if there's serious trouble.

3. They have been getting better. DW6 was, as I said before, widely considered the worst in the series. They tried a new combat system, changed up the way characters played and made all these other adjustments to make it the then-next-gen DW game that would define things going forward, and everyone hated it. DW7 was a major about-face, going back to the old combo system and evolving the series in a different direction that received a much greater reception. And DW8 just expands on everything that DW7 accomplished while making the combat system more complex. Sure, horse animations could be better and what not, but they already made a lot of improvements to the animations over the past couple of games, rooting out clones, putting in more weapon and style variety, and improving the game at its core.

Basically, they tried making the grand leap with Dynasty Warriors 6 and it burned them. So they used Dynasty Warriors 7 as their second attempt at a grand leap and it worked out far, far better. What will the future hold on better console hardware? Maybe you'll see more of what you want (though I personally would find it hilarious if they continued using the same horse animations).

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