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#1 Posted by Hailinel (25787 posts) -

I asked about this once before in the forums and never got any response from it, but I figure I should ask again, because it's come to mind again.

What is the wiki stance on characters such as the following?

Magoichi Saiga is a historical figure that has been depicted in a variety of games. He is also a man. That is, except for the character's appearances in the Sengoku Basara series, where the creators pulled a gender swap and made their incarnation of the historical figure a woman. The same has also occurred in the Warriors Orochi series, wherein the character Sanzang (a male character in the novel Journey to the West) is recast as female.

So what do we do here? Keep them on a single page? Make separate character pages? Is this a case for the Gender Change concept, or would a different concept be more appropriate?

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#2 Posted by Baillie (4704 posts) -

Man, Japanese games seem so dumb.

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#3 Posted by Hailinel (25787 posts) -

@Baillie said:

Man, Japanese games seem so dumb.

Your empty contribution to this thread has been noted and will be filed appropriately.

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#4 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4748 posts) -

Maybe just note that version of them on their character page.

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#5 Posted by Dtat (1744 posts) -

@Baillie said:

Man, Japanese games seem so dumb.

You're right! I hate other cultures! >:(

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#6 Posted by Turambar (7988 posts) -

Gender change seems to imply a change within the game. Do we have a historical re-imagining concept? That seems more accurate.

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#7 Posted by Hailinel (25787 posts) -

@Turambar said:

Gender change seems to imply a change within the game. Do we have a historical re-imagining concept? That seems more accurate.

That's actually not a bad idea, if such a concept doesn't already exist under some name.

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#8 Posted by Turambar (7988 posts) -
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#9 Posted by Baillie (4704 posts) -

@Dtat said:

@Baillie said:

Man, Japanese games seem so dumb.

You're right! I hate other cultures! >:(

Tell me about it!

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#10 Posted by Gooddoggy (463 posts) -

Well Trip (female) from Enslaved is modeled on Tripitaka/Xuanzang (male) from Journey to the West/Monkey...and there're male and female Starbucks in the different Battlestar Galactica franchises. Maybe "gender re-casting" works as a concept name? I think it shouldn't be limited to just historical figures with changed genders, but fictional characters as well, as long as it's a change that doesn't happen within a single game.

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#11 Posted by Hailinel (25787 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@Hailinel: http://www.giantbomb.com/historical-inaccuracy/92-1390/ should work.

@Gooddoggy said:

Well Trip (female) from Enslaved is modeled on Tripitaka/Xuanzang (male) from Journey to the West/Monkey...and there're male and female Starbucks in the different Battlestar Galactica franchises. Maybe "gender re-casting" works as a concept name? I think it shouldn't be limited to just historical figures with changed genders, but fictional characters as well, as long as it's a change that doesn't happen within a single game.

These are both good ideas, I think, but Gender Recasting might be a better concept to use since it doesn't limit itself to historical figures.

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#12 Edited by Yummylee (24646 posts) -

@Baillie said:

Man, Japanese games seem so dumb.

A little broad-minded and potentially even offensive, but I can at least confirm that the Koei Warriors series are indeed exceptionally dumb.

Great, now this thread has me wracking my mind for any other such inaccurate genderswap examples...

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#13 Posted by Turambar (7988 posts) -

@Yummylee said:

@Baillie said:

Man, Japanese games seem so dumb.

A little broad-minded and potentially even offensive, but I can at least confirm that the Koei Warriors series are indeed exceptionally dumb.

Great, now this thread has me wracking my mind for any other such inaccurate genderswap examples...

I'm sure the Fate franchise isn't the only one where King Arthur is female.

Final Fantasy games also really insists on making Shiva female.

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#14 Posted by Yummylee (24646 posts) -

OK, what about characters who change genders mid-game? Already something up for that? There's this villain in Resident Evil: Dead Aim who transforms into a female B.O.W.

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#15 Posted by Hailinel (25787 posts) -

@Yummylee said:

@Baillie said:

Man, Japanese games seem so dumb.

A little broad-minded and potentially even offensive, but I can at least confirm that the Koei Warriors series are indeed exceptionally dumb.

Great, now this thread has me wracking my mind for any other such inaccurate genderswap examples...

They're at times ridiculous, yes, but I wouldn't call them dumb. The way that the historical figures are depicted in those games may be flanderizations, but they often work some obscure or odd facets into their characterizations and designs that show both creativity and a creative use of historical detail. Other times, they're just being wonderfully silly.

That being said, Baillie is trolling.

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#16 Posted by NyxFe (252 posts) -
@Yummylee said:

OK, what about characters who change genders mid-game? Already something up for that? There's this villain in Resident Evil: Dead Aim who transforms into a female B.O.W.

As mentioned above, doesn't that fit on http://www.giantbomb.com/gender-change/92-148/
 
I guess "historical re-imagining" or some similar concept might do, not sure if specifically different gender versions of historical characters is common enough for it's own concept, but there is plenty of historical re-imagining going on.  
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#17 Posted by Hailinel (25787 posts) -

@Yummylee said:

OK, what about characters who change genders mid-game? Already something up for that? There's this villain in Resident Evil: Dead Aim who transforms into a female B.O.W.

That's what Gender Change is for.

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#18 Edited by Yummylee (24646 posts) -

@NyxFe: Ah, of course... I shoulda paid closer attention to the OP >_>' Though in my defence!... It's turning 3am over here, so my senses are starting to dull.

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#19 Edited by Hailinel (25787 posts) -

I've created a Gender Recasting concept and added some of what was mentioned in this thread. If anyone can think of any other games and characters that apply, feel free to add them!

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#20 Edited by onan (1352 posts) -

Alternate history really should be allowed to break out into its own page. It's currently an alias for "Alternate Reality" which seems to have other connotations. Alternate Reality to me seems to be focused on the novelty of how different everything is and will compare things to the way they're *supposed* to be, while Alternate History tales take the new history as a given and try to tell a story within that framework.

Back on topic, I could have sworn there was a "Rule 63" page here at some point, which seemed perfect for this (at least as an alias).

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/rule-63

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleSixtyThree