#1 Posted by sodacat (217 posts) -

Everyone seemed to get hung up on the Pokemon aspect of that other thread, which wasn't even the purpose of it, so let's try this a different way. What games released on different platforms but with the same names are so different that they ought to be separate pages? I want to know where this cut off point is.

Episode 1 Racer:

Similarities: Both racing games. both share character and pod racer designs.

Differences: GB version features only two vehicles on the track at once. The game is top-down and the track never has any turns that are sharper than 90 degrees to the left or right of the top of the screen. Console version camers is behind the vehicle, there are 8 racers in each race, and tracks have elevation and ovals that circle back on themselves. There are more (most of them unlockable) racers, and vehicles are upgraded from race winnings.

Azure Dreams:

Similarities: Both about a child entering the monster tower of Monsbaya to search for his father. Both mysterious dungeon-likes that focus on monster breeding. The monsters of the first 40 floors are mostly similar between them.

Differences: PlayStation version has dating aspects not present in GB version. GB version has twice as many monsters and monsters can be traded between players with a link cable. Every floor in the PS version is randomly generated and has evlevation, while the floors in the GB version are randomly selected from a pool for pre-made floors, and have no elevation. The GB version also has several events that can take place randomly on any floor of the tower, while the PS version only has a single event that can take place on the second floor. The sidequests related to taking quest items out of the dungeon are different for both games.

The Turok games:

Similarities: Same character and level designs.

Differences: One is an FPS, the others either side-scrolling shooter or top-down shooter. Completely different level layouts and weapon designs. Turok 3 GB even had vehicle sections.

#2 Edited by BraveToaster (12588 posts) -

@sodacat said:

Everyone seemed to get hung up on the Pokemon aspect of that other thread, which wasn't even the purpose of it, so let's try this a different way.

The point we were making was you can't use multiplatform games as an example because Yellow/Red/Blue are only on one platform. Why is it so difficult for you to understand something so simple?

#3 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

Isn't a major issue that this would be really confusing to search through? It's already bad enough with all the Star Wars games out there (by which I mean "games that are literally called Star Wars"), so I doubt introducing more same-named pages would alleviate the issue.

#4 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -

There isn't really a set rule for this, these issues are looked at on an individual basis.....if a game has the same name but is a vastly different product (e.g. Goldeneye 007 vs. Goldeneye 007), they are given separate pages.....but if the differences can be explained in a paragraph or two, they don't deserve there own page.

#5 Posted by sodacat (217 posts) -

@Video_Game_King: That is something I hadn't considered, since the drop-down search only says "game" instead of, say "PlayStation". This does serve to make the game pages themselves confusing too, though, as some or all of the information could have nothing to do with one of the game's versions.

#6 Posted by SlightConfuse (3963 posts) -

shouldn't the page have a section for differences between versions.

#7 Posted by sodacat (217 posts) -

@SlightConfuse: I suppose that would be the most eloquent way of handling things considering the deficiencies of the whiskey search engine. You'd think they would have figured out something better considering how glutted comicvine must be with all the pages named Wolverine. At this point I suppose all I can do is make a list for games that need version differences listed.

#8 Edited by B0nd07 (1700 posts) -

The way I understand it, games with the same name and released at the same time for different platforms (including portable) have only one page. Generally, the differences aren't great enough to warrant a second page and are included in a dedicated section. I think there are rare exceptions where the games are drastically different (story, characters, game-play), but I can't think of any at the moment.

Games with the same name, but released at different times (i.e. GoldenEye 007 for N64 and the remake for Wii) get separate pages.

People focused on Pokemon Yellow in your last thread because 1.) you made that the focus with the thread title, and 2.) your argument does not apply to Yellow. Yellow was released in the US one year after Red/Blue on one platform. There were no console versions of it and it is not the same game as Red/Blue.

Online
#9 Posted by iAmJohn (6128 posts) -

It's a case-by-case basis thing arguable on the merits of the games themselves. To cite your Turok example, those games get rolled into the same page because they're mostly the same game in terms of story, progression and central concepts, even if there's a difference in how you play it (first-person vs. Contra-style third-person). To give you two examples of pages that have separate ones: Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands has a Wii-exclusive page because they have different stories and gameplay mechanics. Likewise, while we have a Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc page, I also made a separate page for the handheld version Rayman 3 because the story is completely different and is more of a continuation of Rayman 2 than what Rayman 3 does (in fact, the Hoodlums that are the main enemies in the main version only appear in one early level of the handheld version and are never seen again).

Basically, the general rule I go with is that if the core content (story, characters, base mechanics) is mostly the same when you remove the obvious differences that are going to come with being on a less powerful and therefore capable system (no, a Game Boy is not going to be able to do an FPS, no one would ever think otherwise), there's no reason for it to have a separate page.

#10 Posted by sodacat (217 posts) -

@iAmJohn said:

Basically, the general rule I go with is that if the core content (story, characters, base mechanics) is mostly the same when you remove the obvious differences that are going to come with being on a less powerful and therefore capable system (no, a Game Boy is not going to be able to do an FPS, no one would ever think otherwise), there's no reason for it to have a separate page.

Faceball :D

It still feels weird to merge games based on what they didn't do, rather than what they did do.

#11 Posted by bobafettjm (1526 posts) -

I also run into wanting a lot of hand held games to have separate pages quite often. I understand why they are combined, but sometimes it is frustrating to try and include a bunch of information on a hand held version in a page that already has a bunch of info for console versions.

I think the search could be improved for sure.

#12 Posted by ZombiePie (5711 posts) -

This is an issue that has been brought up before. The truth of the matter is that \we don't typically allow separate pages for handheld versions of console/PC games. It's understood that almost every handheld version of a console game is going to be different due to system limitations. For example, the GBA version of Prince of Persia: Sands of Time is a side scrolled as opposed to being a third person platformer. Obviously that's way different from the console/PC versions, but it doesn't get its own page as being different mechanically doesn't necessarily make it a page warranting a separate page.

If we allowed every handheld game its own page, the search function would be an absolute mess. Also I would probably have to say that we should avoid making any major wiki decisions until after the site redesign, but let me tell you that the new wiki looks crazy different.

Moderator
#13 Posted by BlackLagoon (1457 posts) -

Hmm, I didn't realize this issue was about the search function. I was very confused by seeing enhanced ports (with new names) getting approved, while different games made by different people were a problem (because they shared a name).

Now I find myself wanting to split Home Alone into five entries. Ironically the handheld versions aren't an issue, the Game Boy and Game Gear games are just ports of the SNES and Genisis games respectively... But just about every other platform got its own game by a different developer. Guess I should hold off on it then, as while they all have different art styles, mechanics, and goals, the basic premise from the movie remains the same. Really hope the new design makes these mushed together entries unnecessary. It hurts the usefulness of the ancillary information like Credits and Concepts, and makes it less clear how to present the information properly on a game page.

#14 Posted by egg (1469 posts) -

This is a long standing issue and isn't exclusive to portables. For instance the PS2 or Wii aren't portable but they often get a different game from the PS3 or 360, but get stuck with the same name.

examples

  • Test Drive Unlimited (PS2/PSP by a different dev from PC/360)
  • Sonic Unleashed (PS2/Wii title by different dev from PS3/360)

handheld examples:

  • Modnation Racers (different devs for PSP and PS3)
  • Sonic Colors (Wii and DS are different)
  • Sonic Generations (3DS different from the others)
  • Speed Racer The Videogame (DS different from Wii/PS2)
  • Army of Two: the 40th Day (PSP no similarity whatsoever to other versions)
  • The Simpsons Game (on DS it is a side scroller)

possible other non-handheld examples:

  • Alone in the Dark (PS2/Wii versus other versions)
  • etc

Interesting I see the title Powerslave actually has separate pages on GB for PC and console version.. which I found surprising because I had yet to see the site make an exception for this ever, aside from titles released later. (Littlebigplanet PSP obviously got a different page from LittleBigPlanet)

Also interesting that some games get a free pass just because the name is different. Call of Duty Modern Warfare Reflex. Fighting games also have many differences between platforms (including exclusive characters, etc) but only sometimes get different names. For example Street Fighter Alpha 3 MAX gets it own page just because it has MAX at the end. xD

#15 Posted by Dagbiker (6978 posts) -

@egg said:

This is a long standing issue and isn't exclusive to portables. For instance the PS2 or Wii aren't portable but they often get a different game from the PS3 or 360, but get stuck with the same name.

examples

  • Test Drive Unlimited (PS2/PSP by a different dev from PC/360)
  • Sonic Unleashed (PS2/Wii title by different dev from PS3/360)

handheld examples:

  • Modnation Racers (different devs for PSP and PS3)
  • Sonic Colors (Wii and DS are different)
  • Sonic Generations (3DS different from the others)
  • Speed Racer The Videogame (DS different from Wii/PS2)
  • Army of Two: the 40th Day (PSP no similarity whatsoever to other versions)
  • The Simpsons Game (on DS it is a side scroller)

possible other non-handheld examples:

  • Alone in the Dark (PS2/Wii versus other versions)
  • etc

Interesting I see the title Powerslave actually has separate pages on GB for PC and console version.. which I found surprising because I had yet to see the site make an exception for this ever, aside from titles released later. (Littlebigplanet PSP obviously got a different page from LittleBigPlanet)

Also interesting that some games get a free pass just because the name is different. Call of Duty Modern Warfare Reflex. Fighting games also have many differences between platforms (including exclusive characters, etc) but only sometimes get different names. For example Street Fighter Alpha 3 MAX gets it own page just because it has MAX at the end. xD

Thats because the wiki is fucked. Too many people editing. And no documentation on the rules.

#16 Posted by sodacat (217 posts) -

Hey, so, now that the search engine can specify what platform a game is on would it be OK to start splitting radically different games with the same title?

#17 Posted by bhtav (49 posts) -

Why not take a page from Wikipedia's playbook, with a disambiguation page, or something of that nature. That way, there's only a single hit on the search, and then a user can select from that page.