#1 Edited by Morrow (1829 posts) -

Hey guys, I'm reading myself through the wiki a bit, and I wonder if PTSD is a valid phenomenon enough in games to make it a concept page?

So far the only game character I know that this applies to is, obviously, Captain Walker from Spec Ops: The Line.

But my game knowledge is rather limited, so I'm asking you, do you know any other characters who suffer from a PTSD? I wouldn't want to add the concept page if it's not valid enough in the game universe. Thanks!

Edit: possible additions:

Captain Martin Walker [Spec Ops: The Line] - loses his sanity over several war-related incidents, possible suicide

Jack Walters [Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth] - suffers from halluzination and paranoia after the games events, suicide

Chris Redfield [Resident Evil franchise] - alcoholism, suffers from amnesia after the events of RE5

Ethan Thomas [Condemned 1+2] - becomes a troubled alcoholic living on the streets after the events of the first game

Maria Auditore [Assassins Creed franchise] - mental breakdown after witnessing her husband and son being executed

Francis York Morgan [Deadly Premonition] - suffers from split personality after watching his parents die

#2 Posted by BeachThunder (11923 posts) -
#3 Posted by eroticfishcake (7786 posts) -

I think if it affects gameplay in some meaningful way then it might but so far I don't think it does. I mean the closest similar thing to this is probably Dark Corners of the Earth as BeachThunder mentioned whereupon weird and unsettling things can happen to the player as they play along, like screen blurring, warping views and other elements that break the fourth wall.

But that element is so unique to that game it doesn't seem very worthwhile to make a page for it (as far as I'm aware anyway.) So no, I don't think so.

#4 Posted by Morrow (1829 posts) -

@BeachThunder: Oh my. Yup, that counts.

#5 Posted by Yummylee (21615 posts) -

Chris Redfield goes through Post-Traumatic Amnesia in RE6, so would that count?

#6 Posted by Brodehouse (9949 posts) -

I think Ethan Thomas of Condemned retreated into alcohol after the events of the original, while he wasn't in a military environment, it could qualify.

You could add Maria Auditore to the list as well, after seeing her husband and sons executed she suffered a mental breakdown and stopped communicating for years.

#7 Posted by eroticfishcake (7786 posts) -

Just so we know, we shouldn't mix up PTSD with Sanity Meter. While they're both forms of mental illnesses of sorts, the context of them are pretty different. Also Sanity Meter has an actual effect on gameplay whereas PTSD doesn't really have any. Granted, characters do have PTSD but the stuff that generally happens to them as a result are often, if not always, scripted events instead of emergent.

Not that I'll object against creating a PTSD page, but I just don't want to clog the wiki. At most, it'll probably be more at home if you made subsection of PTSD in the Sanity Meter page.

#8 Posted by Morrow (1829 posts) -

@eroticfishcake: Aha. I haven't really experienced an actual sanity meter as a gameplay element yet. Interesting idea though. I guess I could add the ptsd as a subsection, but it doesn't really relate to a visible meter in a game at all... hmm, I'm gonna wait with this.

#9 Posted by Morrow (1829 posts) -

@Yummylee: I could imagine traumatic events can cause some sort of amnesia, so yes :)

PS: I'd really love to see you add a summary of the campaigns stories and their events on the RE6 page :]

#10 Posted by Kyreo (4600 posts) -

Yes I think that would be a wonderful page. Considering where Spec Ops the Line took the modern shooter, I imagine the concept will be more widely used.

#11 Posted by Morrow (1829 posts) -

@Kyreo: Well we have yet to see the actual impact on the game industry. It had quite the impact on the gamers, but if other games will pick this up... I'm not so sure. Although it would be totally awesome, of course :D

#12 Posted by eroticfishcake (7786 posts) -

@Morrow: Yeah I would probably hold off it for now but if you really wanted to have it then it should be comfortable enough in the Sanity Page. Also, I should have mentioned this earlier but Spec Ops doesn't have PTSD as gameplay mechanic in any way whatsoever, at the very most you get multiple choices in the game that may slightly alter the dialogue a bit but other then that, it's a theme and not a game concept.

#13 Posted by Morrow (1829 posts) -

@eroticfishcake: I see what you mean. But does a concept really have to be a gameplay mechanic? I thought a concept can also be, as you mentioned, a theme. For example, Tragic Hero, Hallucination or Insanity are all concept pages and not really gameplay mechanics... I guess we have a greyzone here.

#14 Posted by eroticfishcake (7786 posts) -

@Morrow: Well I'm no mod but a quick look at the "Concepts" in the site Wiki FAQ doesn't make any mention of themes. The things it mentions are actual, well, concepts like Quick Time Events(QTEs), DLC or a species even. I suppose the reason why there isn't a PTSD page is because themes are actually categorised in the "General Information" tab on the right side of the game's wiki page. It's not the broadest of selections we have there but if the site decided to include every single sub-genre it'll only get messy.

As for Tragic Hero I'm not sure why that page is even there since it doesn't contribute much in terms of gameplay. Hallucination and Insanity can be lumped into the Sanity Meter page. Sometimes pages with grey zones to get submitted and approved only to be deleted a few months later so it's no surprise when stuff like that pops up.

Frankly, I'm an idiot and not a moderator so you're probably better off asking their opinion. Having said that, if I were a mod I would've said no to a PTSD page and deleted those examples you've given since they're just themes.

#15 Posted by DeF (4885 posts) -
#16 Posted by Morrow (1829 posts) -

@eroticfishcake: Hmmm, ok. Again, I can see where you're coming from. Again, it comes with a but.

While those pages may not fall under the original idea of game concept pages, I think it's good those pages exist. They illustrate certain parts and aspects of a game, and while not directly relating to gameplay, they add to it's depth. If you click on the concept elements on a games or characters page, it's like a short summary with tags. I like that, it's useful when you want to get a quick idea without reading through the whole article. And it can get handy when you liked a certain aspect of a game and want to look for similar games. Or maybe I'm just a sucker for details.

#17 Posted by Morrow (1829 posts) -

@DeF: Oh. lol, that's a good example :D

#18 Posted by eroticfishcake (7786 posts) -

@DeF said:

@Morrow: we have concepts like "showing half a face on a box art" ... so no, concepts are not exclusively gameplay mechanics.

Wasn't there some hot debate on whether or not that page should be deleted since it's more of a "joke" page and it only still exists because the staff made the joke? Or am I thinking of a different page?

@Morrow: You see that's what's throwing me off about this. It's somewhat legitimate but themes like that aren't listed in the Wiki FAQ. It could be that I'm just a little anal about what goes in concepts or not but I think themes like Tragic Hero or Hallucination don't quite fit in GiantBomb's idea of a concept. It might fit on Wikipedia and TVTropes...but this isn't those sites. Don't get me wrong, I can see where you're coming from but I think there's probably a better way of doing this. I don't heavily object either way...some staff input would be nice though.

#19 Posted by Morrow (1829 posts) -

@eroticfishcake: Don't worry, be anal :D I can be quite anal about some stuff too. That's what I got from the Wiki FAQ:

Concepts are the most loosely defined data type, serving as kind of a catch-all for pages and associations that don't currently fit into one of the other data types, such as a race of creatures, a specific in-game event, character abilities, game play characteristics, and even shady organizations involved in the storyline of a game. When submitting, try to think of what you'd like to see if you visit the concepts' page - is there going to be a really interesting list of things attached to this concept? Is there room for a great page on what this concept entails? Here's some quick concept guidelines:

Ideas Used In Games

These are great to have -- imagine a list of every game that's stolen this idea from somewhere, or how much detail a user might go into about the significance it has in gaming history.

In-Game events

A good example of this would be a war or a festival in a role-playing game. For instance, The Lion War is a series of conflicts that is tied directly to the back-story of Final Fantasy Tactics. It's referenced a lot while playing the game, and is a great topic to expand on in the form of a concept page. (this doesn't actually have a page, and it blows my mind, guess I'll have to make it later myself).

Species/Races/Enemy Types

Often times enemies and creatures are posted as a character page wrongfully (such as Pokemon, Pinata, or Chocobo) -- these belong listed as concepts and not actual characters. Unless there is a specific character that belongs to a species that merits their own page, keep all that stuff here.

In-Game Corporations/Organizations

Sometimes within a game you'll come across a company, militia, fictional government or whatever that exists in a game -- these belong as concept pages. A good example would be Shadaloo, which is the evil organization that M. Bison created in the Street Fighter Franchise of video games.

Grey Areas

Concepts that have little to no relevance in the actual workings of a game, typically memes created by the players themselves, i.e. tea-bagging. This is often the subjective nature of the concept that hangs your submission in the balance between being approved or denied. We don't really have a better way to document things of this nature at the moment, so as long as it has significance to a video game and the potential for a well-written article/other stuff to be linked to it, it's not necessarily a bad idea. That said, ridiculous stuff will of course be denied, and our official stance on hardware failure is a "no." I'm pretty sure Microsoft didn't come up with the amazing concept of mass-hardware failure.

Duplicate Concepts

Because of the subjective nature of concepts, we run into duplicate pages every day. All we ask is that you do a "proper" search for the concept you're thinking of submitting, because chances are there's already a concept that covers what you're trying to detail -- it's just under a different, equally goofy name. What we mean by proper search, is that you don't just type what your concept is into the search bar, but you click the browse button on the navigation bar on the top of the website, look through the concepts, and see if there's anything in the ballpark of what you're aiming for.

I'll wait until I get more feedback about possible character additions.

#20 Posted by DeF (4885 posts) -

@eroticfishcake said:

@DeF said:

@Morrow: we have concepts like "showing half a face on a box art" ... so no, concepts are not exclusively gameplay mechanics.

Wasn't there some hot debate on whether or not that page should be deleted since it's more of a "joke" page and it only still exists because the staff made the joke? Or am I thinking of a different page?

no idea whether there was a debate or not. it's just the first thing that popped into my head. other examples would be reversible cover art, tragic hero, amnesia, overweight character, etc...

#21 Posted by Gamer_152 (14077 posts) -

@eroticfishcake said:

I think if it affects gameplay in some meaningful way then it might but so far I don't think it does.

We don't say, nor have we ever said before, that something has to affect gamelay to merit a concept page, and there are examples all over the wiki of this fact. As long as we can identify a significant number of characters who clearly suffer from PTSD, I don't see why it can't be a concept.

Moderator
#22 Posted by eroticfishcake (7786 posts) -

@Gamer_152: If that's the case then I guess there isn't any harm to it. But man, sometimes I think the whole definition of "Concept" on this site can be a little too vague and catch all sometimes though I guess that's kind of the point to it. As you said though, so long as we can identify a significant number of characters who suffer from PTSD it should allow the page to stand on it's own legs. In any case, thanks for the input.

#23 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

If we're gonna do this, we'll need to list the specifics on how to diagnose PTSD on the page. Objectivity is valued in a wiki.

#24 Posted by Morrow (1829 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

If we're gonna do this, we'll need to list the specifics on how to diagnose PTSD on the page. Objectivity is valued in a wiki.

Once I read myself through the details of PTSD, I'll start writing :D