Character Motivation

So, I'm the type of person that likes to "role-play" characters in games like this, or at least think about why they're doing what they're doing.

At the start of the game you are either a male, soldier, or female, lawyer. Since I'm playing as a female character I find it very difficult to justify that she immediately picks up a gun and starts wasting raiders and ghouls... The soldier backstory is at least a little easier to understand.

Couldn't Bethesda just have made the player character be a soldier, regardless of gender, and have the spouse be a lawyer?

Does anybody else feel this way?

I thought the PC was a solider regardless. And the spouse was a Lawyer regardless.

The wife being playable feels like a last minute addition to me.

@sterling: I don't know what happens if you're a male PC, but IIRC when you interact with the law degree as the female PC she says something along the lines of, "It was a lot of sleepless nights, but it was worth it."

Your son getting abducted and your husband getting shot, after being set up by vault tec, is your motivation.

You being a lawyer has little to do with it.

Also there's no way the female protagonist is a last-minute addition. This option has been a staple in bethesda games.

If you want to roleplay the mother, I guess a high intelligence, high charisma character makes sense.

The mother wasn't a soldier by the way. When you look at the military uniform in the wardrobe she says something along the lines of "I'm so proud of him."

The prologue/character motivation set up is the weakest part of the game for me. You don't spend enough time with the family to make an impact. Kinda wish you had just seen someone get taken and decide from there if you cared enough to go help.

@toysoldier83: you could be a female in every other Fallout/Elder Scrolls game, I doubt it was a last minute addition.

I understand that aspect of your motivation, but your not being familiar with guns and murder has a lot to do with it...

I also thought about specing a lawyer character but the idea of changing my play style because of gender choice is ridiculous.

It really sucks that you're very much shoe-horned into a character that's not your's. I can understand the shooting aspect. I have known quite a few ex-military guys and have gone shooting with them. The female PC may have been trained to shoot. The power armor thing though, I don't really get. You're also a parent who, from the first few minutes of the game, shows a strong attachment to their family. It's hard to see this character spending time growing potatos in a metal shack city when their kid is somewhere out there.

Growing up in the Vault in Fallout 3, you had a chance to shape your character into a jerk who'd end up turning into a canibal raider. You're never shown to have any sort of real connection with your dad in Fallout 3. He's an older guy, he chose to leave on his own, he can take care of himself. I'm in no rush to track him down, if I even track him down. Heck, he's the fault mom died. Heck, the only thing he ever did for me was give me a BB gun and walk out on me.

In New Vegas, you're a blank slate. Free to be whatever you want to be, without being shackled down to what you were before you were shot in the head.

In all the Elder Scrolls games, you're a convict. They never say why. You could be a murderer that escaped, or someone in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

Patiently waiting on the Live Another Life Fallout 4 edition mod.

True, but the intro being narrated by the husband (which gives him a small background story before we even see him) seems to support that leak/rumor from a year/months back that the game originally was just gonna have the male protagonist so as to have a more focused story etc. The leak got a few things correct, game being in Boston and plot dealing with the institute and the synth. This could all be a coincidence, but I still feel like the wife got the shaft in the intro and not being a soldier herself.

These are all good points. Every other Bethesda RPG has done a good job letting you build your character and their motivations.

Adapt or die, that's what the intro tells me. In the beginning, we are presented with a world where the woman is a lawyer and the man is a soldier. I think that's deliberate. It shows a world where men were the fighters. Then we go 200 years into the future, and you're thrust into a world where women are forced to pick up guns (or rocket-powered fists) and fight to survive. And they do so, on equal footing. That's why I feel the female character, and her story is a bit more interesting than the other one, because she, a lawyer, finds herself in a world where her skills are more or less useless. So it comes back to the juxtaposition between the two worlds, and in her shoes, you have to adapt or die. Didn't feel rushed to me at all, simply more interesting.

Why does her career mean she can't be physically capable? Maybe she practiced martial arts in her free time. Maybe her husband shared survival tips and tricks. Maybe she was a gun nut in her free time.

I don't think any of that matters, and I think that's kind of the intent. The game is trying to build a narrative, but also leaving details as vague as possible for the player to fill in how they wish. That's sort of how every Bethesda game has been.

I think a minor narrative hook to start things off is significantly improved over nameless prisoner who is secretly the cornerstone of the age.

Nameless Prisoner is the perfect setup for a game such as FO4. The blank slate lets people who really get into RP go buck wild. This narrowly focused intro is purely for the Action crowd that every modern RPG ends up catering towards. The opening for this game is extremely weak, and really set a poor tone for the wrest of the game. The stupid problems it creates, such as a lawyer being a hardcore commando, is what all previous intro's avoided.

I've barely touched the main quest line since its such hamfisted hogwash. The less Bethesda attempts to write grandiose linear plot lines, the better the game becomes. I think the writers just felt butt hurt that most of the player base in Skyrim were oblivious to the main quest line. So they decided to try and force us to "care".

I disagree. I don't think time spent would have added any more impact to the intro. Moreover, I don't think a long intro would have made for a better gameplay experience. I gave five stars to the way the game gets you up and running very, very quickly. I was DREADING going through a long, boring expositional/tutorial section to setup the game.

personally, I didn't know what was going on in the game so I spent as much time customizing my characters wife as I did my character. THAT is what made the character death seem impactful to me. I even had a hard time believing she was really dead (If she's not, don't tell me) and I went back to check on her and make sure she was still there. I was ecstatic that Bethesda added a little bit of companion dialog to reflect that the game noticed I was going back to check on her.

@beaudacious: It's impossible for me to care about nameless prisoner or what he does though. Save this person, murder this town, rob that orphanage, sacrifice these people to an assassin god.. I'll do any and all things in that situation with no consideration given to what my fake person would think because he barely exists in the world.

Even the extremely minor framework that this game sets up is enough to think more of the character I'm controlling.

I think people thought the intro to Fallout 3 was too long (especially when it came to doing a second playthrough onwards) so they didn't want to spend an overly long time before you're out in the world.

They probably should have made them both ex-military though. I don't really worry about justifying the characters abilities in games but they should know that people like that kind of detail being explainable.

@toysoldier83 said:

That would be insane. Both voice actors have said they were recording dialogue lines every couple of weeks from mid-2013. Removing a gender options would be one of the most insane things Bethesda could do to fuck up their games.

Spending time at all would've given more impact because the impact that's there is a big ol' zero.

Maybe the husband taught the wife everything he knows?

There is way to much emphasis in modern gaming on the concept of "storytelling", which boils down to "explaining".

Stan Lee used to do an amazing thing in the Marvel letters column, back in the day. If readers found problems or inconsistencies with the stories, he encouraged them to not just point out the problem, but to offer a solution as to why it's not really a problem at all. Spiderman had a bag in one panel but not in the next? Well maybe he threw it ahead of him, off panel in between the frames. The point was to get people enaged in telling the story rather than just passively consuming it. He would give out "no-prizes" to the winners.

gaming needs a lot more of that spirit. Afterall, that's the heart of role playing. The player and the DM work TOGETHER to CREATE a story. There is no sitting back and listening to a story be told in table-top RPGs.

I think its less about them being able to use guns and such and more about why the character is not more interested in getting their child back. Thats both male or females, in both contexts they seem not all interested in finding the child and more interested in planting gourds. I understand your actions are also a variable and if you the player isn't necessarily looking for the child then the character can't but they should have just put a less urgent matter in front of you in the beginning of the game instead. That is why it's much harder to role play this character unlike most Bethesda games. But like Draugen said it's adapt or die and that's more fitting for them to be able to use guns than anything else. Lawyer or not if you are presented with a kill or be killed situation you will have to do what is necessary.

I agree 100%. I don't like the idea of the storied main character.I also don't like him being voiced.

But, that being said, I wonder if Bethesda is running into problems generating ideas for quests and stuff. All the quests in this game seem mostly tied into the story, from what I can tell. And, really, I don't know what else they would do. Haunted house? Done it. Strip club? Done it. Mass Murderer? Done it. Help lovers unite? Done it. Become a folk hero? Done it. IF bethesda keeps doing the same thing over and over again, they only have a few more "bethesda" games that can possibly be made before they are all used up. By tying all the quests into the main story, it limits the scope.

@efesell: that small narrative hook shrinks the possibility of your character significantly though. I really hope this doesn't carry over to the Elder Scrolls.

But what does that possibility matter to me if the character is a boring non-entity?

I hope it carries over to everything. No blank slates no silent protagonists.

@efesell: If you can't create a compelling character to play then you are shit at at the R bit of RPGs. Creatively dead people are the reason why RPGs are rapidly turning into shooters and hack and slash games.

You have 1000 other (*cough* less fun *cough*) games that do that. Go play those.

The character is only boring if you imagine them to be so.

Which, really, is the problem. The reason most player characters in MMORPGS are copyright infringement and the reason most player created content is ripped from other games is because people, in general, tend to be uncreative and unimaginative. But that's not the domain of Role Playing Games. It's completely diametrically opposed to the point, actually.

What are you talking about? there is nothing more vicious than a lawyer.

Why does the husband being a former soldier mean he's more likely to run around the wasteland shooting dudes? Maybe he's never aimed a gun at another human being before. Maybe he sat in a tent every day peeling potatoes. Maybe he retired from active duty because he realized the reality of armed conflict is heavily emotionally scarring.

The lawyer being accustomed to destroying lives makes way more sense.

@efesell: Previously that's what people have gone to Bethesda games for, they were up until now the only company that provided a somewhat blank slate for people to role play with. I now have to wait for mods to play a Raider female type who is just down to do fucked up shit all the time.

No matter who you pick both male or female are both soldiers (at least in the back story I've come up with), I would think that is how they met in the first place, and why can't you see a woman who may have started out as a soldier then becomes a lawyer too... Really man it's not to hard to believe people in the armed forces have many talents besides shoot a gun & kill....

First off I totally agree that the opening is both unnecessarily pigeonholey towards player characters and both rushed in it's relationship establishment and made a poor choice in setting up it's prime motivation as kind of an urgent matter that then gets totally forgotten.

But. Here's something I do in these types of situations. Playing as a female character I roleplayed in my head that while the wife had a law degree she was also in a covert army training program, essentially a sleeper agent, with all the necessary past military service, background scrubbing and setup etc, and is actually probably more badass then her hubby (even has a few faded scars). Her being proud of him is being protective. She is thus also able to approach her kids kidnapping with a somewhat more cool head, therefore realizing that a search will take some time and she will need some connections (Minutemen, Brotherhood, etc) and a base of operations to be more effective at searching for him over time, tho as a mother she still can't help but be worried about him, but planning, survival, proper supplies and adaptation to the new world take precedence. That's how me roleplaying as her sees the situation and justifies her actions (and also explaining her aptitude towards violence at the same time).

@tennmuerti: Yup, pretty much.

I also kind of assumed something similar, but more of a technical desk position. And also with the added layer of not really being on board with the idea of having the boat anchor of an infant, but it's what was expected. As she's becoming more comfortable (and ostensibly mentally unhinged) in her current situation, the dangerous freedom of the wasteland is becoming more to her liking than the safe prison of the domestic life in an "Eisenhower's America" inspired setting.

That's basically how I'm justifying not pursuing the main plot at all in my current play through heh.

I thought they were both military? (being in the military shouldn't stop you from being a lawyer right?) I'll have to try out a female character and see.

Hmmm maybe she was a soldier and became a lawyer, not sure but there are parts in some of the quests where having a military background is vital.

Example (minor side quest spoiler):

If you're roleplaying as a former lawyer then maybe don't pick up a gun and start shooting? It's your choice to pick up a gun really. And if you do decide to pick up a gun, maybe don't aim down the sights or use VATS and just fire from the hip to simulate being an inexperienced shooter. The choice is up to you.

I know there are things left obfuscated, like the lawyer could be a gun nut and the soldier could be a desk jockey, but that's not really what the game sets up for you.

It says, here is a veteran and a lawyer living in the suburbs with a child. To me that doesn't really leave much to the imagination.

The set up for every other modern Bethesda RPG is perfect because there is everything left to the imagination and that's how I like to play these games.

I am having a good time with my character, still, and over time I can see her being changed by the wasteland but that initial set-up is a huge speed bump for me. I still think having the female as a soldier would make it easier to swallow. I can see that some people find it easier to role-play their way out of this than me but I tend to get hung up the little details...

@maxb: For that quest the robots let you on board because you were an official US citizen according to their pre-war records. I was playing the lady and was specifically identified with Occupation: Lawyer.

I shot a gun for the first time last weekend, it was my friend's shotgun, and after one or two shots I was hitting targets with no problems. I didn't even have a wasteland of killers and monsters as a motivation, so it's not too difficult to believe she could pick up the necessary skills quickly. Shotguns are easier to hit shit with than most guns but still it's not to hard to suspend your disbelief. Just make up a back story where she went to the shooting range on the weekends or grew up on a farm where guns were commonplace.

I do see why people might be disappointed that the characters aren't the usual Bethesda blank slates, but I like having the voice acting. I'm sure there is going to be a mod that gives you the option to be a blank slate.

I think it's less of an issue of could you pick up and fire a gun and more could you pick up and fire a gun at hordes of mutated post apocalyptic lunatics charging at you.

Remember when they made Liam Neesan your dad and had you play through your childhood in Fallout 3?

The Elder Scrolls games (or at least the last 3, I dunno about before that) were the ones where you got a blank slate, with the only contrivance being that you were a prisoner for no explicit reason. But besides all that, if you're role-playing then only your head-canon matters, so fuck it. Just figure something out for your character and how you wanna play. It's not like making everyone a soldier would've made it better for someone who doesn't want to be a soldier anyways.

I actually really liked the set-up for Fallout 3. They added narrative hooks while still maintaining that blank slate by allowing you to shape how your character grows up.

Everyone has a Dad so that didn't seem out of place and they weren't forcing you to be a Daddy's boy/girl.

I liked how they made your parents look like your character to, it's real silly that my son is a little white kid. :-/

Sure you can shape your character within the particular origin they've crafted, but it's still decidely not a blank slate. I dunno how specific they get with explaining your background in Fallout 4, but even with the occupation and family status already decided you've still got a whole history before the bombs fall that's open to imagination.

Why wouldn't a lawyer know how to use a gun? A lawyer is bound to learn of many messed up situations that would have turned out differently if the victim knew how to use a gun. Being married to a soldier would make the transition from knowing little about guns, to knowing a lot about them... pretty easy. Or maybe the character likes guns. Cause guns are cool and knowing how to use them properly is a good idea.

Keep in mind that your character starts out at lvl 1 so she's not good at anything. You make her a warrior through leveling up.

You also have to remember that at the time of the tutorial the world that the player lives in isn't exactly perfect. If you do some research there is a lot of problems with the pre-war world. They already had the huge war with China in Anchorage which lasted a few years, there was constant threat of nuclear war all over the world (much like the Cold War), the New plague was spreading all over America, and resources all over the world were dangerously low. So it isn't exactly impossible to think that the player wasn't already somewhat prepared for adversity.

I thought I'd stop by again to say that the Female protagonist is definitely ex-military. There are pre-war robots that analyze you and bring up your records saying that you are ex-military. It allows you access to a certain area in a quest.

That being said ex-military or not both male and female protags taking Deathclaws, Ghouls and Super Mutants at face value only a couple hours after leaving their vault is kind've bananas.

My character is a black man, and Shaun is black as well.

At least I assume that's what you're referring to. Shaun's race seems to adapt appropriately.

Lawyers can be good at shooting guns. Lawyers might have the same survival instinct as a soldier. I also assumed that both protagonists were ex-military, and that the wife got the law degree after she finished her service while the husband continued his military career. So I kind of did the Bethesda thing of creating a backstory from the information I'm given.

Nematode farmer.

lol, I don't know about the last sentence, but I definitely agree with your ideas of the connotations people are associating with soldiers and lawyers. Honestly, I just don't think we have enough information to make any assumptions as to whether either 'character' would kill another human being, or of their capabilities. In other words, I don't think it's something the developers spent much time on, so any inferences or assumptions are going to be heavily based on speculation, schemas, and projections.

TL;DR - Don't worry about it.