#1 Posted by Steadying (1190 posts) -

So I just got back into the game, and I'm loving it for the most part, except for the dungeons. I just cannot keep hate. I dunno what I'm doing wrong. I use Flash (which I don't like using a lot since people sometimes get mad when I do?) a few times, then Fast Blade>Savage Blade>RoH. I use other abilities should the need arise, but this is my main combo. This works sometimes, and I'm actually a pretty good tank against bosses, but when I have like 4 enemies to look after, I just can't do it. Next thing I know, I'm dead, and then that one guy in the group is being a snippy little jackass and I feel really embarrassed that I caused everyone to fail.

So yeah. Do any really good tanks have advice for me? Good ability " rotations ", etc? I really like tanking, but I just suck at it so much and I'd love to hear any hot tips! Thanks!

#2 Posted by WarlordPayne (700 posts) -

Paladins can have a fairly difficult time holding hate on several enemies. I'm a warrior but I can offer some general tips and some stuff that I've heard from paladins I know:

Pull with shield lob and then flash two or three times as the enemies come together before starting in on your combo. Don't ever pull with Provoke unless you need to grab something that Shield lob can't reach, and even then hit it with shield lob as soon as it gets within range.

Rotate your combo through the enemy party, one hit on each enemy, then after one full combo use flash and basically repeat that until everything is dead. If a particular enemy is taking a lot more damage than the rest you may want to make sure you hit that one with RoH since it generates the most hate. You may not end up having to flash after every combo, but you'll have to feel that out yourself.

There is also no reason for people to get mad if you use flash, it's a paladin's only real means of generating group hate and it doesn't interfere with anything anyone else does. You shouldn't pull with flash, and you shouldn't just sit there and spam it forever without doing anything else, but you need to use it and you need to use it often.

#3 Posted by Pazy (2575 posts) -

As a Healer (WHM) in FF14 I would ask that you use Flash, I would also suggest it would be your 2nd or 3rd ability at the start so you have first aggro on all the enemies in the fight since I cannot heal you until you aggro everything in the area. If I cast any skill before you aggro every enemy then I get aggro on everything. Though an actual Paladin would have to tell you more than that since Ive only ever tanked in WoW (though it was Raid level for a while) but what WarlordPayne said seems like what I know from watching my friend Tank the entire game up to Raids.

#4 Posted by hollitz (1516 posts) -

Paladins can have trouble holding hate until around lvl 40. Shield oath is a huge help.

The most hate you're going to get from anything is from a Rage of Halone. Having just recently gone back to tank some lower level dungeons, here's what I'd recommend.

Mark your targets. Open with shield lob on number one, then hit flash when everything is grouped up. Use your rage of halone combo on number 1, flash again, do the 1 and 2 of the halone combo on your first target, then hit your #2 marked target with the halone itself.

Also make sure to use fight or flight when you have it. Most of your hate comes directly from the damage you deal. Might want to check out this table so you have a general idea of what your huge hate abilities are.

#5 Edited by Zeik (2416 posts) -

Despite what seems to be the common perception I actually have an easier time tanking early game content as a GLD than a MRD. Overpower is nice, but besides that they have surprisingly bad emnity generation before learning Defiance.

Anyway, I find there's kind of a flow chart for tanking with my GLD/PLD.

Start with Shield Lob on your primary target, then:

- 1 enemy: just Rage of Halone combo them to death. (You can throw in a Flash for the blind effect if you want.)

- 2 enemies: Flash Once > Halone combo on primary > Flash again > Halone combo secondary > then just focus on primary until dead

- 3-5 enemies: Flash twice > Halone combo primary > Flash > Halone combo secondary > etc. Basically repeat that until you're down to 2-3 enemies

- 6+ enemies: Flash like crazy. Pretty much the only time you'll tank that many is if you're speed running , which I wouldn't worry about until you're much more confident in your tanking.

As you can see, I've never found it necessary to throw out 3+ flashes at the start of a fight if you're just tanking a standard group of mobs. It's almost always overkill and you're generally better off getting a Halone combo in sooner to get much more emnity on your primary target and the strength debuff. The only time I would consider it is if everyone starts spamming aoes or no one is following your markings and spreading emnity everywhere.

Also you have to be reactive as a tank, so just treat that "flowchart" as a guideline. You have to keep on eye on everyone's emnity and make judgement calls on where to use your skills when necessary. Also it's worth keeping in mind that not only can a combo chain be spllt up between several enemies to spread the emnity, but you can also throw in a Flash anywhere in a combo and it won't interrupt it like most offensive skills.

#6 Posted by Steadying (1190 posts) -

The tips about Shield Lob and cycling through enemies with each hit from the RoH combo are much appreciated. I'll try that soon. Also, I guess those people who were getting mad at me for using Flash were just being weird then. Thank God, because I love using it. :P

I believe part of my trouble comes from trying to tank with a gamepad. I enjoy playing the game on PS4, but I think I'm just gonna switch to PC when I do dungeons. I am dreadful at targeting enemies with a controller.

Thanks again for all your tips! I kinda wish there was some sorta private dungeon thing so I could screw around with strategies without worrying about messing up someone else's game (even though you don't really lose anything if you die), but hey.

#7 Posted by hollitz (1516 posts) -

Sometimes it's best just to find a group of friends to run that kind of stuff with. I remember back in my noob tanking days when I just couldn't survive the second boss of Aurum Vale. We had a party of Pld, Whm, Whm, and Brd and managed to clear the dungeon with 11 seconds on the clock. Pretty intense stuff.

Oh, I'm also not sure how customizable the UI is on the PS4, but I'd definitely recommend trying to make sure you have the enemy's health bar near your action bar so you can see which abilities they are using.

#8 Posted by Steadying (1190 posts) -

@hollitz: heh, I wish I had some friends that were actually interested in games, let alone an MMO. :P

#9 Posted by hollitz (1516 posts) -

@steadyingmeat:

in game friends work! Which server are you on? Try to find a Free Company that's friendly to newer players/recently resubbed players. Makes the whole game much more enjoyable. And it's a lot easier to learn from friends/nice people than from having jerks yellin' at ya.

#10 Posted by Steadying (1190 posts) -

@hollitz: Midgardsormr. I would join a guild, but I plan on eventually transferring to Ultros and trying to join the Giant Bomb guild, so I'll just hold off 'till then. I'd feel like an ass if I just joined one then okbye'd them.

#11 Posted by kagato (920 posts) -

The tips about Shield Lob and cycling through enemies with each hit from the RoH combo are much appreciated. I'll try that soon. Also, I guess those people who were getting mad at me for using Flash were just being weird then. Thank God, because I love using it. :P

I believe part of my trouble comes from trying to tank with a gamepad. I enjoy playing the game on PS4, but I think I'm just gonna switch to PC when I do dungeons. I am dreadful at targeting enemies with a controller.

Thanks again for all your tips! I kinda wish there was some sorta private dungeon thing so I could screw around with strategies without worrying about messing up someone else's game (even though you don't really lose anything if you die), but hey.

You could just stick your mouse and keyboard into your ps4 and switch the controls over to the pc version if that makes it easier, i have a keyboard, mouse and ps4 pad on the go at once and use a combination to make use of the strengths of all of the pc features on my console.

#12 Edited by Zeik (2416 posts) -

The tips about Shield Lob and cycling through enemies with each hit from the RoH combo are much appreciated. I'll try that soon. Also, I guess those people who were getting mad at me for using Flash were just being weird then. Thank God, because I love using it. :P

I believe part of my trouble comes from trying to tank with a gamepad. I enjoy playing the game on PS4, but I think I'm just gonna switch to PC when I do dungeons. I am dreadful at targeting enemies with a controller.

Thanks again for all your tips! I kinda wish there was some sorta private dungeon thing so I could screw around with strategies without worrying about messing up someone else's game (even though you don't really lose anything if you die), but hey.

I've spent 100% of my time with this game using a controller. It's very doable.

I highly recommend cycling through enemies while holding L2 or R2 + L1/R1. Don't use the d-pad unless you want the soft-targetting and definitely don't try and disengage and auto-target.

#13 Posted by Zirilius (636 posts) -

Yep target cycle and I highly recommend marking targets for your dps to focus on. Sometimes DPS will focus on separate targets making it nigh impossible to hold aggro. By marking you place a precedence on which targets you want killed and don't speed run even if you feel pressured. Its one thing to do that with a warrior who can overpower but as a paladin it sucks.

Also screw those people who say don't use flash. USE IT! It not only helps you grab agro but it causes blind as a Paladin.

#14 Edited by Marokai (2958 posts) -

I feel really bad for tanks in this game. I don't envy them at all. It seems like you have to be completely fucking perfect to keep hate most of the time, and wear topper-than-top-notch gear to not die constantly before you get to max level gear. I was perfectly happy to play as nothing but a Scholar.

#15 Edited by Zeik (2416 posts) -

@marokai said:

I feel really bad for tanks in this game. I don't envy them at all. It seems like you have to be completely fucking perfect to keep hate most of the time, and wear topper-than-top-notch gear to not die constantly before you get to max level gear. I was perfectly happy to play as nothing but a Scholar.

That's not really true. At least not usually. Both the MRD and PLD suffer a bit just before they get their tank stances (if you ever end up in Haukke Manor with a MRD instead of a WAR be careful, because they can barely hold aggro without Defiance and Butcher's Block), but once you get Defiance and Shield Oath it's pretty easy to keep aggro on you if you know what you're doing. It's usually not too hard to keep everyone under 50% aggro, which leaves a lot of room for error.

#16 Posted by Marokai (2958 posts) -

@zeik: Early on it's not so bad, and once you're 50 it's not so bad, but in my experience tanks tend to have a ton of trouble getting used to new areas in the mid levels. I was teamed up with a friend for most of my 30s and 40s as a Scholar and even decked out in the best of gear and constantly using every ability he had, anytime we moved to a new area it was a total nightmare in a way that didn't feel like it should've been. Particularly the first few levels we were in Brayflox; it just took being a higher level and having the better gear that came along with it that prevented weirdly random deaths.

Not that there's really that much of a setback for dying, anyway.

#17 Edited by Zeik (2416 posts) -

@marokai: I think that really has more to do with the dungeons than issues with tanking itself. Braflox is the first notable jump in difficulty in the game and Qarn can be a real pain in the ass too, so if you don't know what to expect things can go bad quickly. Braflox is also the first dungeon you do after you unlock your job, which means you might lose out on some cross class skills you were used to, and if you're a WAR you have to make sure you're using Defiance or you can't tank worth shit. PLD's are also at a bit of a disadvantage because they don't get Shield Oath until 40, so they have to work extra hard.

I didn't start tanking until I had already cleared the game once as a Dragoon, so I had a pretty solid familiarity with the content. Even despite having basically no tanking experience in MMOs I didn't have much trouble reaching 50.

#18 Edited by Steadying (1190 posts) -

I just got Shield Oath so we'll see how this goes.

@zeik Yeah, I've just been using the dpad and it hasn't really been working out. Thanks for that alternate shoulder button method, I wasn't even aware that existed to be honest.

#19 Posted by Steadying (1190 posts) -

Well, I just ran my first dungeon since receiving these tips (Cutter's Cry) coupled with Shield Oath, and it went......incredibly well. I don't think I had any problems at all aside from the boss, but that was just us accidentally getting hit by his gimmick attacks. That targeting tip helped soooo much.

Thanks so much, duders!