Turn 10 apologizes, free stuff & changes coming to economy.

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KentonClay

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Hahaha, that's not an apology.

That's a sales pitch in the clothes of an apology.

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trace

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@falconer said:

As of right now the temporary in game sale of 50% off all cars ends today, so be sure to get those credits and grab everything you can.

People really fall for T10's shallow tactics. Amusing.

...or maybe those of us who enjoy the game, despite the whole car token kerfuffle, know to take advantage of situations like the extra rewards and sales, even if they don't solve any of the actual problems.

Certainly hasn't cost me any extra money to do so.

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TrafalgarLaw

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#53  Edited By TrafalgarLaw

If you bought Forza 5, you're part of the problem. These money-hungry devs should learn on-disc content (for a $60 premium I might add) comes first, DLC/microtransactions later. This is just adding insult to injury.

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falconer

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@trafalgarlaw said:

If you bought Forza 5, you're part of the problem. These money-hungry devs should learn on-disc content (for a $60 premium I might add) comes first, DLC/microtransactions later. This is just adding insult to injury.

If this is all you have to say, you're adding nothing of value to the discussion.

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TrafalgarLaw

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#55  Edited By TrafalgarLaw

@falconer said:

@trafalgarlaw said:

If you bought Forza 5, you're part of the problem. These money-hungry devs should learn on-disc content (for a $60 premium I might add) comes first, DLC/microtransactions later. This is just adding insult to injury.

If this is all you have to say, you're adding nothing of value to the discussion.

I called them out with Forza Horizon, which was an experiment on how far they could go with microtransaction and I got comments like yours. Nowadays, if almost no one would buy/spend on microtransactions...devs aren't going to come out and say "Ok, we understand...microtransactions were wrong." They'll just keep it in anyway, there is no upkeep on it. The only way you'll get a message through is by not buying it or buying it used.

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EXTomar

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#56  Edited By EXTomar

I am not sure I'd say it is "money-hungry devs that are the issue" but this stuff is in all of the "first party release" games which indicates it is "edict from above".

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falconer

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@trafalgarlaw: Uh, car tokens worked the same way in Horizon as they did in Forza 4; inoffensive and totally reasonable. If you think there was something else shady going on, I didn't notice it even after my dozens of hours with the game.

there is no upkeep on it

... seriously?

They're working on redoing the entire in game economy less than a week after launch... I don't think the word "upkeep" means what you think it means.

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TrafalgarLaw

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#58  Edited By TrafalgarLaw

@extomar said:

I am not sure I'd say it is "money-hungry devs that are the issue" but this stuff is in all of the "first party release" games which indicates it is "edict from above".

Microsoft pays their paychecks, right? Also the bonusses from garnering big amounts of sales i.e. profits on DLC/microtransactions, no? It's not like Microsoft is a slave driver and Turn-10 has no say or profit in it at all.

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Vinny_Says

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@falconer said:

@trafalgarlaw said:

If you bought Forza 5, you're part of the problem. These money-hungry devs should learn on-disc content (for a $60 premium I might add) comes first, DLC/microtransactions later. This is just adding insult to injury.

If this is all you have to say, you're adding nothing of value to the discussion.

I called them out with Forza Horizon, which was an experiment on how far they could go with microtransaction and I got comments like yours. Nowadays, if almost no one would buy/spend on microtransactions...devs aren't going to come out and say "Ok, we understand...microtransactions were wrong." They'll just keep it in anyway, there is no upkeep on it. The only way you'll get a message through is by not buying it or buying it used.

They are obviously working if every fucking game today has them in one form or another. Maybe, just maybe, some people actually don't mind paying $2.99 for a gun skin in Call of Duty....but then again they are probably wrong. I mean, how dare they decide what to do with their own money?

Of course some devs will push it too far and it will blow up in their face (see Forza 5) and they'll be forced to do something about it. But to just sit there and call people "part of the problem" expecting games to never have microtransactions anymore is delusional. It is what it is and the numbers are against you.

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Trilogy

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#60  Edited By Trilogy

WE'RE SORRY SO BUY MORE OF OUR VIRTUAL BULLSHIT.

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EXTomar

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#61  Edited By EXTomar

@trafalgarlaw said:

@extomar said:

I am not sure I'd say it is "money-hungry devs that are the issue" but this stuff is in all of the "first party release" games which indicates it is "edict from above".

Microsoft pays their paychecks, right? Also the bonusses from garnering big amounts of sales i.e. profits on DLC/microtransactions, no? It's not like Microsoft is a slave driver and Turn-10 has no say or profit in it at all.

Microsoft is the producer and says "I want you to make a game with these features in it". Microsoft isn't being a slave driver but the relationship is not "peer" by any stretch. Turn-10 delivers a game Microsoft wants or Microsoft liquidates Turn-10 and uses that money to complete the game or sit on it. Hell, it can still come to pass that Turn-10 delivers a profitable game and Microsoft liquidates them anyway.

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monkeyking1969

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Given all the date restrictions in all of that, you have to think that AFTER those dates the system for getting cars, pricing, tokens will all be revamped. I think what we see about about 50% off and one free car is just for early adopters. After Dec 17th?? maybe the whole system changes via a patch. Only time will tell, but my guess is that the paid DLC part will still be in there just adjusted slightly to make things more reasonable.

Maybe, the above deal is just a intermediary step for early adopters. Maybe, not.

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TrafalgarLaw

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@trafalgarlaw said:

@falconer said:

@trafalgarlaw said:

If you bought Forza 5, you're part of the problem. These money-hungry devs should learn on-disc content (for a $60 premium I might add) comes first, DLC/microtransactions later. This is just adding insult to injury.

If this is all you have to say, you're adding nothing of value to the discussion.

I called them out with Forza Horizon, which was an experiment on how far they could go with microtransaction and I got comments like yours. Nowadays, if almost no one would buy/spend on microtransactions...devs aren't going to come out and say "Ok, we understand...microtransactions were wrong." They'll just keep it in anyway, there is no upkeep on it. The only way you'll get a message through is by not buying it or buying it used.

They are obviously working if every fucking game today has them in one form or another. Maybe, just maybe, some people actually don't mind paying $2.99 for a gun skin in Call of Duty....but then again they are probably wrong. I mean, how dare they decide what to do with their own money?

Of course some devs will push it too far and it will blow up in their face (see Forza 5) and they'll be forced to do something about it. But to just sit there and call people "part of the problem" expecting games to never have microtransactions anymore is delusional. It is what it is and the numbers are against you.

Look, I used to defend microtransactions if it was just a means to get stuff faster. It's not anymore, they now impact game design by letting non-payers have much and much slower access to stuff. I really hope I'm wrong but I can see in two-three years every game having microtransaction, at least for Microsoft & Sony 1st party devs. I will shun those games that make me grind for items/unlocks and hold a $5 loot pack in front of my face.

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Juzie

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Nice, I am loving Microsoft this generation. Not only are we getting a FREE webcam with our Xbox but we also get huge sales on all removed content, that is pretty great.

I am taking notes, I plan to run a business in the future.

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falconer

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Look, I used to defend microtransactions if it was just a means to get stuff faster. It's not anymore, they now impact game design by letting non-payers have much and much slower access to stuff. I really hope I'm wrong but I can see in two-three years every game having microtransaction, at least for Microsoft & Sony 1st party devs. I will shun those games that make me grind for items/unlocks and hold a $5 loot pack in front of my face.

Grinding in Forza is nothing new, and the in game economy as far as credits go isn't completely ass backwards like the car tokens are. Please know what you're talking about before bitching about, and not just for the sake of bitching about it.

@juzie said:

Nice, I am loving Microsoft this generation. Not only are we getting a FREE webcam with our Xbox but we also get huge sales on all removed content, that is pretty great.

I am taking notes, I plan to run a business in the future.

What removed content? If you're referring to day one car packs, that's nothing new to Forza.

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pweidman

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#66  Edited By pweidman

Reward credits not showing up just like the Lotus for VIP. :)))

Their website has been semi-broken for a while too('can't communicate w/Xbox Live').

EDIT: I'm a peanut. :P Just had to DL the message for credits to appear: Tier 4 =4 million. :)

Still no Lotus, and it's so tempting to buy it. :/

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TrafalgarLaw

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#67  Edited By TrafalgarLaw

@falconer said:

@trafalgarlaw said:

Look, I used to defend microtransactions if it was just a means to get stuff faster. It's not anymore, they now impact game design by letting non-payers have much and much slower access to stuff. I really hope I'm wrong but I can see in two-three years every game having microtransaction, at least for Microsoft & Sony 1st party devs. I will shun those games that make me grind for items/unlocks and hold a $5 loot pack in front of my face.

Grinding in Forza is nothing new, and the in game economy as far as credits go isn't completely ass backwards like the car tokens are. Please know what you're talking about before bitching about, and not just for the sake of bitching about it.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Can you spot the differences?

On the upper end, our goal is to make the truly elite cars feel really exclusive. As a result, the top-end cars in Forza Motorsport 5 will cost significantly more in tokens than they would if you earned them with in-game credits. In the past, expensive cars could be purchased with very few tokens (not in proportion with the amount of effort required to earn the cars through racing), thus allowing players willing to spend tokens to jump straight into the most exclusive cars in the game. Now, we’ve made token prices equal to in-game credit prices. For those who want to spend some extra real money and get those exclusive cars, they’ll have that option, but they will no longer devalue the hard work of those who earned the cars through racing and building up in-game credits. Either way, expensive cars will have real rarity.

No Caption Provided

How much per token again? How many credits do you get after one race?
Turn 10

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trace

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I don't think anyone's defending the car tokens, other than to argue they're easily avoidable for most.

If the Lotus E21 screenshot is implying that cars are more expensive in Forza 5, that's actually not true. Forza 4's most expensive cars were 10,000,000 credits, and in briefly comparing car prices from Forza 4 and Forza 5, I wasn't able to find any tremendous differences, other than those 10 million credit cars being dropped down to 6 million.

Any differences in the economy are in race or leveling payouts, which I'd guess are due to changes in how career mode works and a decrease in free play credit earnings. The lack of gift cars also doesn't help, since that was an easy way for anyone to build a quick 50-car garage (even if most players didn't use most of the cars as Turn 10 alleges). Beyond that, the amount of strife these changes cause has a lot to do with the level of difficulty and assists used.

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falconer

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TrafalgarLaw

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#70  Edited By TrafalgarLaw

@falconer said:

@trafalgarlaw: Step off kid. I did the math. I know what I'm talking about.

Your in-depth analysis doesn't include the amount of tokens/creds you earn per game and how much time (by approximation) is spent on getting the upper echelon of expensive cars. Who are you calling a kid? I adressed you in a civil manner.

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senrat

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I played and loved Forza 4 without ever paying a dime for tokens. Is the only reason people are bitching because the game no longer hands out a free car every time you level?

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falconer

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@trafalgarlaw said:

@falconer said:

@trafalgarlaw: Step off kid. I did the math. I know what I'm talking about.

Your in-depth analysis doesn't include the amount of tokens/creds you earn per game and how much time (by approximation) is spent on getting the upper echelon of expensive cars. Who are you calling a kid? I adressed you in a civil manner.

Because I made a generalization for that. The very first thing I said was that I ended up with 42M extra credits in Forza 4. I also pointed out that in my limited time with Forza 5 that the amount of credits I'm earning feels fine. Any opportunity to do the math on buying specifically the "upper echelon of expensive cars" has gone out the window with the 50% off sale this weekend, millions of free credits for everyone, and a permanent overhaul of the economy around the corner.

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GIyn

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#73  Edited By GIyn

How about some more tracks to race on? This game has like 14 and two of those are freaking test tracks..

How about better f1 gear change animations. amirite

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spraynardtatum

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Uggh. Microtransactions should be reserved for f2p games. If you want to waste your money on this stuff, so be it, but you're getting duped.

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gnarlycore

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Yea my rewards level resulted in 4 million credits. I'll take it!

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EXTomar

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#76  Edited By EXTomar

Microtransactions aren't automatically bad but some games lend themselves better to them than others. The bad part is that it is designed feels like Microsoft is triple dipping into the wallets of their most loyal customers. Some may forgive them with a sale and a promise but I also don't blame anyone who is disgusted no matter how low they drop the prices and what promises they make because it feels like they've been hosed multiple times.

Simply put, if this "triple dipping" was on casual players who got the cheap version but ended up spending a bunch more then many would not complained or done so silently. By going after the hardcore base's money aggressively they have seem to made a lot of them angry.

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ProfessorEss

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Apologies all over the place. Battlefield, NBA Live, Forza... What's next?!

Even if they're apologies are hollow and their offerings are insulting at least their starting to acknowledge these things. Who knows, maybe this could grow into something meaningful someday to offset all the garbage that's come with modern gaming?

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PimblyCharles

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#78  Edited By PimblyCharles

Can't wait for the Best Apology vote for this year's GOTY awards.

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falconer

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#79  Edited By falconer

@professoress said:

@strife777 said:

Apologies all over the place. Battlefield, NBA Live, Forza... What's next?!

Even if they're apologies are hollow and their offerings are insulting at least their starting to acknowledge these things. Who knows, maybe this could grow into something meaningful someday to offset all the garbage that's come with modern gaming?

As someone that's having a lot of fun with my free E21 and bought a LOT of cars with my free credits, I'm pretty happy with Turn 10's "insulting" offerings.

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ProfessorEss

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#80  Edited By ProfessorEss

@falconer: I wasn't directing the "empty" and "insulting" at Turn 10 I was just talking generally saying "even if it is" :)

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project343

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This is the worst possible response. It acknowledges the conflict, it acknowledges the game design and economic design as being fiendish, but it does very little to permanently 'fix' the issue. It makes things very clear: Turn 10 has no interest in addressing these concerns.

In an ideal world, they would retool the game's progression system to make it more non-microtransaction-friendly, then give everybody a complete refund on the currencies they have spent. This isn't going to happen even though it should.

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spookytapes

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I got 4 million credits and you better believe I filled my garage up this weekend. Thanks Turn 10! I still have less cars than I would if I were still getting them at the end of each series, though. Also, I think all the f2p hooks in a $60 game are some hot bullshit, but hey, the game is at least fun. I hit level 30 last night and I still have a lot of series left to play. Also thanks to this sale I have an E21. Which I then turned around and got one of the 100 fastest lap times at the Top Gear test track on (was 96 in the world as of yesterday). Alright. Can't wait to give GT6 a rip and see how it is.

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MildMolasses

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#83  Edited By MildMolasses

Can't wait for the Best Apology vote for this year's GOTY awards.

I'm looking forward to apology of the generation. My pick is Nintendo and the gold wii-mote's lack of real gold

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falconer

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#84  Edited By falconer

@project343 said:

This is the worst possible response. It acknowledges the conflict, it acknowledges the game design and economic design as being fiendish, but it does very little to permanently 'fix' the issue. It makes things very clear: Turn 10 has no interest in addressing these concerns.

In an ideal world, they would retool the game's progression system to make it more non-microtransaction-friendly, then give everybody a complete refund on the currencies they have spent. This isn't going to happen even though it should.

Someone can't read...

Based on the numbers we’ve seen from our first week of FM5, as well as feedback we heard directly from you, we’re in the process of making some changes to the Forza Motorsport 5 economy. But, while we’re putting the final touches on that, we want to make sure everyone continues having a great time with Forza 5.

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project343

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#85  Edited By project343

@falconer: I can read. I'm seeing 'some' changes, and I'm seeing a lack of communication: they aren't even giving us even a hint at what direction they plan to move things. If they had planned to make wholly positive and drastic changes to the game, they would have come out immediately to say so. I imagine we'll see some minor reductions in cost across the board, but that doesn't fix the problem: grinding to unlock cars, and paying to avoid said grinds. Unless they remove the cost entirely, this problem will not be fixed. If they reduce the grind to a minimal degree, there's no value in spending money in the first place.

This isn't an issue of values, but an issue of philosophies. The incentivized progression mechanic popularized by Modern Warfare many years ago is turning into an outlet for whale-milking. This 'fee-to-pay' model (or whatever you want to call it) only works if it helps fund free content for all players--ala Mass Effect 3's free multiplayer map packs. I support microtransactions--wholly. But they need to exist to offset other issues in the industry, like the splitting of userbases with the release of map packs.

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falconer

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@project343 said:

@falconer: I can read. I'm seeing 'some' changes, and I'm seeing a lack of communication: they aren't even giving us even a hint at what direction they plan to move things. If they had planned to make wholly positive and drastic changes to the game, they would have come out immediately to say so. I imagine we'll see some minor reductions in cost across the board, but that doesn't fix the problem: grinding to unlock cars, and paying to avoid said grinds. Unless they remove the cost entirely, this problem will not be fixed. If they reduce the grind to a minimal degree, there's no value in spending money in the first place.

HA! You have no idea what you're talking about.

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project343

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#88  Edited By falconer

@project343: Wait, you haven't even played it? Then why are you bitching so much? This doesn't even effect you, regardless of the outcome.

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dionysis

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@falconer said:

@project343: Wait, you haven't even played it? Then why are you bitching so much? This doesn't even effect you, regardless of the outcome.

It seems like an awful lot of the discussion I've read about Forza 5 is coming from a place of total ignorance.

Before Turn 10 started handing out tons of free credits/cars I never felt like there was any need to buy coin doublers or spend real money to unlock cars. I'm not even very good at the game and by the end of a race series their were always several different options with available/desirable cars that I could unlock with the credits on hand. To that end, the economy seemed mostly reasonable. It may break down deeper in the game though as it doesn't seem like the races that require higher tier cars have an increased credit payout so that is likely where they need to address long term fixes to the game economy and they probably don't need to be radical changes rather just a scaling sort of fix.

The huge credit rewards that Turn-10 did this month were more than enough to buy cars that would open all but 2 or 3 series in the whole game. I am only at the 3,000,000 credit level and I was able to get cars to unlock everything other than a classic Indy series, a GT series, and one other. Every other series is available to me with a car I want to try driving with. By the time I'm through half of those series, I will probably have enough credits to unlock all the cars I need to do any series and after that it will just be collecting and tuning for the sake of trying everything out.

I've always enjoyed Forza games, but I'm having so much more fun with the on track driving with this one than I have with past games. The in cockpit experience (which has been my prefered view since Rallysport on the original Xbox) is better than it's ever been. The already great driving model seems to be even better. And for me personally, I find racing against the "Drivatars" substantially more engaging and challenging than I have with the former AI implementations.

I do think they need to make Free Play actually free for all cars. Local multiplayer Free Play should not be such a restricted mess as it makes it much harder to enjoy casually with friends and family. This is a key use case for the product that seems far too neglected by this incarnation of Forza. Additionally, any paid DLC should come already unlocked in the garage. It is absolutely unacceptable for a $10 - $20 content pack to require the content to then be further unlocked with grinding or purchased credits. I would be satisfied with just those two changes. I honestly don't care what their cash to car unlock prices are as I will never use that feature. Realistically, no digital car unlock should cost more than $2-$5 if they actually want people to spend money on them, but it doesn't impact me either way.

The menu flow is a mess and desperately needs to be fixed. There is just no way going back to the garage to tune your car or switch events should be on the other side of a substantial load time delay. Sound level adjustment should not be only available in the on track options. Adjusting assists and difficulty also seemed to be inaccessible a couple times when I wanted to change it. Ideally they get the time to fix these UI issues, but for now I'm more pleased with the on track experience than irritated with the off track experience. It's not as bad as PGR3 or Gran Turismo 4 was with broken menu flow and crazy latency. They also have some major bugs in their heuristics with how they handle Kinect controller/player pairing that I hope to see fixed.

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Ben_H

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The microtransaction stuff is scummy for sure. I am not a fan of it in any game. But that isn't what I am going to talk about.

I get the feeling a lot of people complaining here and elsewhere have not actually played a lot of Forza. To say grinding and investing huge amounts of time isn't part of the game is completely 100% wrong. I've played all of them to completion or near completion since the original (except for 5 because I don't have an Xbox One), and this has always been the case, so it is reasonable that it also is the case for the new one. Want the Ferrari 250 GTO (10 million credits in Forza 4. More than the Lotus F1 car)? It's gonna take a while before you can get it. It took me a ton of time to get it. By the time you finish all of the races, you should have enough money to buy most of the cars. Forza isn't a "play for 20 hours and have everything unlocked by the end of that time" type of game. It never has been. I had over 300 hours logged in Forza 3 and have surpassed that in Forza 4 and I am not even done yet. For Forza 5 to take over 450 hours to get all of the cars is totally reasonable in that respect because they make it so only the truly devoted Forza players can get all the rarest cars. That is always how it has been.

If people think the game is too boring to invest that amount of time then they aren't the audience for it. I find the games incredibly fun still over a 1000 hours later. Turn off all the assists and set it to manual with clutch and it becomes a completely different, substantially more fun, deep game. Every car feels unique and you have to learn who to handle each one. The F40 goes from feeling like a standard supercar to feeling like a go-kart after all of the traction settings and assists are turned off. The Porsche 911s feel like they are always about to spin because of the rear engine when you are going around corners. Once you start learning the differences in cars and how to tune the game becomes substantially more fun and interesting than if you leave the difficulty on the normal settings. Also, you make twice as much money.

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pweidman

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The more I play this game the less I wanna play it. The UI oversights and inconvenience are a real grind. Having to wait for a load before you can quit and migrate back to tune/upgrade, or heaven forbid change assists is just mind blowing to me. Also the way they auto upgrade cars with no adjustable parts is another drag. They handle pretty terribly, and your only option is to go buy one separately, upgrade it appropriately and to the class, and then tune it. On a positive tip, this part of the game is intact from the previous versions, as the tuning and upgrade parts really make huge differences in grip, handling, and overall performance.

The drivatars were kinda weird and cool at first but have long since gotten very old with their ridiculous crashing into you on purpose, even to their own expense in a given race. Rivals is fun but you gotta go through about 6 screens once there to tune and/or change assists. No marketplace is a huge bummer too for me as I loved shopping/selling designs and tunes, let alone cool cars. The token system is awful too, even though I don't use it. No Nur....how in the heck can that be. Who made that design choice? I know they crunched this game in only 2 years but still, I just can't accept all this stuff at once. I was a huge Turn 10 fan, and have played every Forza game to date, and my opinion of them has changed. Just too many silly issues, and the words coming from them now are lip service at best, and appear to be just an effort to silence complaints, not fix their game. Pretty bummed about this game right now, as I had pretty high hopes.

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reisz

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#92  Edited By reisz

@ben_h: You have no legs to stand on. Forza 5's progression can't be compared with that of previous entries in the series. The alternate avenues for income have been removed entirely from the game.

Your idea that people previously welcomed with open arms, players who would rather earn their income from running a storefront, by buying and selling cars to play the career mode or playing with all assists on and then enjoying the reward cars they earned are now no longer "the audience for it" is insulting. Give me a break, Forza has been about "the love of cars" from day one and that feeling is utterly absent in Forza 5. It's a different game than the series has been built on in the past and it's worse off for it.

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falconer

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#93  Edited By falconer

@reisz: While the menus for it have changed (or weren't created altogether) getting money from paint jobs and tunes still exists.

@pweidman: Nurburgring is coming in DLC. It's over 10 miles long, part of it is public roads, and is constantly used for testing and track days. It's gonna take a while to laser scan it.

@ben_h: For as long as I've been playing Forza, I actually still use traction control. But I think with these fancy new triggers in the XONE's controller I'm going to try driving at least the lower half of the PI spectrum without it on. The triggers really do add a whole new level of feedback.

@dionysis: Yeah, I've also recently noticed that credit winnings don't change. That's kinda weird, but I have enough difficulty modifiers up to give me what feels like a reasonable amount of money vs time spent in single player.

Cockpit view is the only way to drive the open wheel cars as far as I'm concerned, and it's SO RAD.

As for car packs, I almost never buy them. Well, I got maybe half of them for Forza 4, but got only one or two for Forza 3. I don't really have an issue with then also having to pay for them in game, but I also totally see where you're coming from. I'm certainly not going to argue against changing it. Maybe you get one of each car added to your garage, and any additional ones you want you need to then buy in game. That seems like a totally reasonable way of changing it without also breaking things.

And yeah, the menus are totally ass backwards compared to the last two games, which had near perfect menus.

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SecondPersonShooter

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I'm beginning to hate video games guys.

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reisz

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@falconer: You're right, getting paid for paint jobs and tunes definitely still exists. I'd love to know at what ratio and by what criteria players get paid though, as it stands it's not at all clear if it's per download or if a design has to be used on track, if you get paid once per day, whether there are caps or how much you are paid once these mystery criteria are met.

It's deliberately obfuscated and objectively worse than the previous method for anyone who wishes to share content with the community. I had most of my stuff up for free in prior games but that served as a good way to get people to look at my storefront where they might buy something. With no storefronts in 5 the opportunity for increasing interest based on prior work goes completely out the window.

I stopped playing Forza 5 over a week ago so I am not the best example but I wasn't able to track any of the earnings I made from my designs. It doesn't feel like a viable play style anymore.

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Sterling

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I just bought a booster, or whatever the fuck its called. 200 tokens for two hours. Its not working. I am still getting the same damn xp payouts. To be expected I guess. I made a post about it on their sites forums, but it was moderated as I am a new user. They also don't have anyway to get a hold of support from their site that I can see. I guess the rest of my tokens from the CE edition will go towards cars.

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isomeri

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Turn 10 have announced an update which will finally make all of the 200 cars initially released with the game available for "rental" so that you can test all of them out in free-play. Additionally all DLC cars will automatically be added to your garage once you buy the DLC pack.

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EarlessShrimp

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@isomeri: I guess that's a step in the right direction. Still, I think it'd be cool if they chose to give you a 50% reduction of creds/xp earned from rentals. With having to grind for credits still, it'd be kind of nice to get at least something out of renting a car

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falconer

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It's pretty hilarious/sad that they're STILL apologizing and trying to make good to the fans. I apologize (lol) for not going back and looking at the economy after the major update. But after said update, outside of the most expensive cars things didn't actually change much. Also, my interest in Forza has taken a nosedive. If it wasn't for Race Night I would've stopped playing it long ago.

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#100  Edited By Ben_H

I just saw that response to my post. Man that guy was angry. It's pretty satisfying.

All I was saying was that if a person found the racing boring they should try turning off some of the assists because it becomes a completely different game than with all the assists on. And that if you do every race in the career mode you should end up with enough money to buy almost any car you want. That in combination with the career modes in Forza games taking a really long time means it takes a while to finish the game, but once you do you are rolling in money.