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#1 Posted by depecheload (497 posts) -
#2 Posted by believer258 (12106 posts) -

Really? Some motherfucker groped a girl and then said "Well, I wish girls would grope me."

What kinda sick, twisted, pathetic, fucked-up-dipshit-screwball goddamn answer is that?

Gee, I knew gaming conventions were full of sad assholes, but... really?

#3 Posted by commonoutlier (136 posts) -

Even though it makes me sick to my stomach every time I remember how much of a problem sexism is in the industry, it does fill me with a little hope when there are productive conversations about it (or at least conversations that admit this is a problem, rather than dismiss it or tell people to shut up about it)...although I hope I'm alive by the time where conversations like this aren't needed.

#4 Posted by Sgtpierceface (640 posts) -

Are there any other insightful tweets someone could point me to? A lot of the ones I see are just people saying "look at the #reasonwhy".

#5 Posted by depecheload (497 posts) -

@Sgtpierceface: Yeah, kind of annoying, but just dig a bit and it get's interesting fast. Make sure you're reading the "Top" tweets and not all, should help too.

#6 Edited by Petiew (1355 posts) -

I preferred the #Susanalbumparty trend it was much more uplifting. I don't really have much more to say as I tend to keep away from these forum topics. Hopefully it doesn't incite a shitstorm like usual, some of the tweets are interesting.

#7 Posted by Euphorio (77 posts) -

I wish I could put input here, but the complaints seem to be stemming from the designers themselves..and I have no experience or knowledge of the industry insiders...

but I do entirely agree that it's a tough topic, and that women are definitely subjected to scrutiny and belittlement in the gaming world. It's not fair, and it's not right. Stereotypes have taken a strong grip on games, and it's a real, REAL problem

#8 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5855 posts) -

some of these stories are kind of disappointing

I honestly don't think games today are horribly sexist (at least not the ones I've played) so it's weird to see video game fans acting so aggressively towards women.

#9 Posted by Sgtpierceface (640 posts) -

Lets all just hope that Lara Croft doesn't come off as weak and powerless in Tomb Raider. Maybe it could help with some of these arguments?

#10 Posted by JasonR86 (9763 posts) -

Sexism reminds me of cancer in that everyone who can't do anything to fix the problem seem to talk about the problem a lot.

#11 Posted by yinstarrunner (1233 posts) -

I don't understand the point of this.

#12 Posted by Levio (1785 posts) -

They are asking men to suppress their basic instinct to be sexist. The kind of men who are willing to do this have probably already done so. What is there to do about the rest?

#13 Posted by depecheload (497 posts) -

@yinstarrunner said:

I don't understand the point of this.

Pretty cut and dry to me. It serves a few purposes.

1. To call attention to something that many still think isn't a problem.

2. To help show other women in the industry that their problems aren't unique

3. To hopefully motivate some people to fight back more often against this kind of disgusting behavior.

A recent, especially disheartening one.

https://twitter.com/xMattieBrice/status/273304335717367810

#14 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19377 posts) -

@depecheload said:

3. To hopefully motivate some people to fight back more often against this kind of disgusting behavior.

How?

#15 Posted by depecheload (497 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@depecheload said:

3. To hopefully motivate some people to fight back more often against this kind of disgusting behavior.

How?

By showing that it is a problem, it happens to almost everyone, and that you wouldn't be alone by fighting against it. Silence it the friend of discrimination. Speaking out is the enemy.

#16 Posted by Trainer_Red (314 posts) -

It's Twitter, what did you expect?

#17 Posted by Acura_Max (78 posts) -

This is an eye opener. I thought this level of sexism was restricted to the gaming community, but to see it on a professional level is just sad.

#18 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

So, what was the original catalyst here?

Also, man I am sick of women who handle this the wrong way. Talking about Rape Culture or whatever the fuck isn't going to help anyone, and acting like men are evil assholes just comes off about as pathetic as the few men who actually are like that.

#19 Posted by Gamer_152 (14100 posts) -

I'm following the trending topic now and it's powerful and eye-opening stuff. I know there are people who really just wish this debate would go away or think the way women are treated in games and the gaming industry is a non-problem, but this kind of thing makes it clear that there is stuff going on in the industry that is not okay, and that there's a real discussion to be had here. I still don't expect the gaming community as a whole to be able to treat this topic maturely, but the more people speak up in this manner, the better.

Moderator
#20 Edited by eskimo (481 posts) -

How this makes me feel -> Men did this. I am a man. I did this. It is my fault. I am a bad person. All men are bad.

Pretty much the same thing I've been hearing all my life. I envy women, it must be nice to be able to feel proud of your gender.

#21 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19377 posts) -

@Gamer_152 said:

I know there are people who really just wish this debate would go away or think the way women are treated in games and the gaming industry is a non-problem

Is that really the case? I feel like this scenario has been repeated over and over again in short bursts, in recent times, and nothing has come from it except for reiterating complaints about sexism and how things need to change.

Might be my ignorance, but I'm not too certain that there's really that many people who can deny that sexism isn't prevalent in the industry, right?

#22 Edited by _Zombie_ (1462 posts) -

Some of this shit is just depressing. This shouldn't be a problem, society. Fuck.

#23 Posted by Gamer_152 (14100 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Gamer_152 said:

I know there are people who really just wish this debate would go away or think the way women are treated in games and the gaming industry is a non-problem

Is that really the case? I feel like this scenario has been repeated over and over again in short bursts, in recent times, and nothing has come from it except for reiterating complaints about sexism and how things need to change.

Might be my ignorance, but I'm not too certain that there's really that many people who can deny that sexism isn't prevalent in the industry, right?

Every single time I've seen the issue of the way women are treated in games brought up on this site, the conversation has been dominated by people with a resentment for the criticism being levelled against games, and/or off-hand dismissals of the problem, and I don't think Giant Bomb is any kind of exception. Every time these arguments come up there are a flood of people not listening to the other side of the argument, misconstruing the points from the other side of the argument, giving poor excuses or reasons to dismiss why games are the way they are, making attacks on the people behind the arguments, and yes, even sometimes complaining that there is no sexism or that it's a very minor issue that has been way overblown. In fact when these arguments get brought up I still see people not only dismissing the arguments that games or the games industry may have some problem in relation to women, but there are a certain portion of people who will even go to the lengths of saying that men are being discriminated against by these arguments.

Moderator
#24 Edited by ShaggE (6636 posts) -

@Petiew said:

I preferred the #Susanalbumparty trend it was much more uplifting.

I saw this, thought "I can't NOT see 'Su's Anal Bum Party' in that", figured it might be in bad taste to mention it in case it's related to something serious, Googled it, saw that the whole incident revolves around the same misreading, and now I feel much better about my childish reaction.

Less rambling response: Heh. "Bum party".

On-topic response: I'm glad people are speaking up. This kind of behavior is nauseating.

#25 Posted by 4th3ist (1 posts) -
#26 Posted by JasonR86 (9763 posts) -

You know what I love best about these things? No solutions ever come of these things. No movement to fix a problem is made. I think most people who are responding to this twitter thing have no idea how to even conceptualize this problem besides "hey sexism is bad right?" Yet they all think they are doing this big service. Like they are shining the light on this deep dark secret no one knows about. But it's tantamount to yelling out for all to hear that "Hey the sun is bright!" because the only people who are going to know about this whole thing are people who already know that sexism is prevalent everywhere. It's a bunch of preaching to the choir by a large group of people who are going to talk in vague generalities about gender issues they don't fully understand or have the tools to address anyway and everyone will pat each other on the back and go about their day tomorrow as if none of this shit happened because none of it mattered.

#27 Edited by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -

I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but press has been talking about changing the ways reviews are written for over half a decade and no one has done shit about it. My point is, the people that actually care enough to talk about this stuff barely have influence over the thing they actually create. So, what makes us think we're going to have any influence over what the big game companies do or what the people outside this conversation think.

I know this isn't very optimistic, but I feel I'm just being realistic.

Edit: Also, stuff like this shines a pretty bright spotlight on how people confuse the ACTUAL differences between men and women with the ones created by advertising.

#28 Edited by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

@eskimo said:

How this makes me feel -> Men did this. I am a man. I did this. It is my fault. I am a bad person. All men are bad.

This is what I hate (yes, hate!) about how some women behave about this issue. I have learned from personal experience that ugly people exist, but there aren't that many of them, honestly. I'm an openly gay man. I made it through high school and some community college and I'm joining the Marine Corps, and I've received my fair share of shit, but most people are totally supportive of it, and I don't blame Christianity on homophobes telling me they'll beat the gay out of me (Maybe not the best idea to go up against a guy going into the Marines, but hell, get some!). I feel like a lot of the discussion in the industry is being blown out in ways that obscures the women who are being reasonable about it, and the real issues. Instead of the fucking twats crying about rape culture and bullshit like that. They need to recognize the disconnect between 4chan and actual human beings. They need to stop playing the victim and just say "hey, you wanna fuck with me? Come on, come at me. I'll fight it, and I'll fuck your shit." Discrimination and abuse are illegal regardless of the reason. I wish women would just punch every guy that did something stupid, I wish they would report corrupt hiring or HR practices to the proper places. It's great that women come out on social media and blogs and all that, but ultimately it's actions that will speak for their plight, not twitter.

I shouldn't be treated like an asshole because some stupid feminist wants to make claims that rape is somehow something we see regularly in games, or that there is some sort of rape culture in the industry, and I call her out on her bullshit. Feminism has about as much place in the world as black power or gay pride. Don't wanna be defined by your gender? Don't be a feminist, just call out bullshit. It doesn't matter WHY a women is treated like shit, it shouldn't happen. So instead of focusing on the fact that women are treated poorly in some cases, just get shit done. Get employees to quit their jobs when they are treated like shit, report any abuse of any kind, regardless of reason or nature of the abuse. Punch the son of a bitch acting like a 9 year old with a newly found obsession for his dick.

It's tough for me sympathize in the way I feel some women expect me to because, hey, I've been called homophobic slurs, I've been told I'm "not allowed to use a rainbow because God made rainbows" and I'm "just not allowed." I've been threatened by internet toddlers from the 4chans of the internet. But I don't expect any sympathy. I defend myself, I kick ass, I get the job I go for, and soon I'll be serving the hell out of my country and generally being a bad ass. So it sort of pisses me off when a women whines about rape culture when she hasn't even been looked at the wrong way yet I've gone toe to toe with rapists, I've had incredibly close friends and even my girlfriend actually go through that, so you know what ladies? Stop bitching, and fuck the assholes up when they get in your way, but ignore the dumb asses that don'e actually matter. Some idiot on the internet will always hate you for some part of you. Be you a female, a homosexual, a male gamer, a war hero, or really, really into some lady blowing bubbles in skimpy outfits. They are just trolls, just freakin dumb asses on the internet. It doesn't mean everyone is a piece of shit, it doesn't mean it's proportional to actual real life humans that you interact with on a regular basis. I think that's the biggest issue the discussion has: too few people are bothering to make that distinction.

Women in the industry who have been treated like shit? Yeah, you can talk shit about asshole bosses or colleagues or whatever the fuck. But you have to take action to get anywhere. And you have to have perspective. Women aren't the only ones not represented well in the industry. And again, the internet is not real life, and treating it like it is is fucking stupid.

At least the derogatory term for you hasn't just become the derogatory term thrown around at everyone and in any situation, especially in this industry.

EDIT: I know, I'm a callous asshole. How dare I expect women to be tough enough to get through bullshit like I did. It's not fair to compare women to a man. Who works out! And wants to kill people! Also I'm a monster who wants to kill people, did I mention that?

@Sgtpierceface: Hell, she blows like 30 guys away in one of those E3 bits, so I'm guessing she can handle her shit. lol.

#29 Edited by envane (1164 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ: it might feel that way but theres proabably alot more out there who havent heard it yet (somehow) or still refuse to hear it. plus its about more than just the tech industry , its because that industry is so entwined with internet culture , but itself is still a small fish in a large ocean of converging mentalities and thoughts .. so it might sound repetetive even at this point but clearly it hasnt resonated far enough yet to spread the message to the other places of the internet where women have even less of a voice etc..

#30 Posted by salad10203 (654 posts) -

@4th3ist said:

If you haven't read http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

You should give it a read/browse. The worst examples of gamer sexism.

Man that is ridiculous. If they want to fix the problem, there has to be consequences. For instance, if someone could be legally charged with sexual harassment or fined then the problem would vanish over time.

#31 Edited by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -

@MordeaniisChaos said:

I'm an openly gay man. I made it through high school and some community college and I'm joining the Marine Corps, and I've received my fair share of shit, but most people are totally supportive of it, and I don't blame Christianity on homophobes telling me they'll beat the gay out of me (Maybe not the best idea to go up against a guy going into the Marines, but hell, get some!).

Most of your post, but specifically this part that set the theme, gave me that rare feeling of optimism that humanity may not be completely fucked.

#32 Posted by Phatmac (5726 posts) -

If be interested in a female's perspective on this issue.

#33 Posted by JasonR86 (9763 posts) -

@Phatmac said:

If be interested in a female's perspective on this issue.

Just wait. It'll come.

#34 Posted by envane (1164 posts) -

@MordeaniisChaos: rainbows wtf ... i feel bad for thinking thats funny :/ but that just doesnt even make sense

#35 Edited by Skanker (254 posts) -

@eskimo: Whenever a discussion about sexism comes up, there's always a guy who has to say "But think about meeeeeeee :("

Disgusting, cut it out.

@MordeaniisChaos: Not everybody is the same. Not every gay man is willing to put up with bullshit like you do.

White, straight, male privilege exists. The solution doesn't have to be, "Just live with it!" Some people want better than that. You should too.

Edit: I predict you'll get a lot of support from straight, white men who are glad somebody is here to say they don't have to feel bad about their privilege. At least, you would if more people were to read this thread. That's how these things usually go.

#36 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5077 posts) -

I giggled when I saw a familiar name there.

@depecheload said:

This one is particularly frightening:

https://twitter.com/filamena/status/273210910284320769

Isn't this a problem in general? I mean why is this related to video games? The guy groped her because of video games?

#37 Posted by redefaulted (2802 posts) -

I'm all for Sexism to be removed from pretty much everything that justifies it's absence. It's sad that people think on such a barbaric and cave-man level of intelligence still.

#38 Posted by GalacticPunt (1092 posts) -

@MordeaniisChaos: /salute

#39 Posted by StarvingGamer (8476 posts) -
@Petiew
I preferred the #Susanalbumparty trend it was much more uplifting. I don't really have much more to say as I tend to keep away from these forum topics. Hopefully it doesn't incite a shitstorm like usual, some of the tweets are interesting.
I can't help but read that as "sus anal bum party."

That is all.
#40 Posted by SharkEthic (1062 posts) -

@MordeaniisChaos: /salute

#41 Posted by YOU_DIED (703 posts) -

People really think "sexism" (and I use this term very loosely) in video games is a problem worth wasting time on? Wow, and I thought I had my priorities fucked up. They were right, we are definitely living in the hyperreal.

#42 Edited by Droop (1916 posts) -

Heh. To be fair, Leigh is the only obnoxious, silly, immature, annoying drunk game person I've heard (on the Bombcast at least)

#43 Edited by TruthTellah (9428 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

You know what I love best about these things? No solutions ever come of these things. No movement to fix a problem is made. I think most people who are responding to this twitter thing have no idea how to even conceptualize this problem besides "hey sexism is bad right?" Yet they all think they are doing this big service.

While I agree that little things like this tend to not lead to larger change, that doesn't mean people shouldn't do them, and it certainly doesn't mean that we should belittle their words and actions. You make it sound like talking about this is a bad thing to be avoided unless it instantly fixes everything. Some things catch on and some things don't. And sometimes, as odd as it may sound, like-minded individuals may just appreciate an opportunity to talk about something that affects them.

Not every Twitter comment needs to change the world or even make a real dent in the problem. If only it were so easy. They're just talking about things which impact them in the industry, and while you may not see the value in it, that doesn't matter. If some people want to express themselves about it, I say that's great. Speak about your grievances, even if people are unreceptive. Just because people won't seem to listen doesn't mean you should stop saying something.

Considering how often people receive criticism for just bringing up the subject and talking about the realities in the industry, I can see how even ineffectual self-expression could be valuable to those talking about it. Talking about something like this is easier when others join in with it. Maybe it doesn't catch on, but it still serves a purpose for those expressing themselves. You don't need to throw them a parade, but there's also no reason to belittle what they are doing and discourage people from doing it now and in the future. If someone wants to talk about this, they should do so.

And, if you feel that their efforts are ineffectual and they need to go beyond the skin deep and consider how to affect the big picture, why not offer your own thoughts? If you think the topic of how women are treated in the gaming industry and community matters, why not avail us of your more thoughtful and effective suggestions for what people should do? I would love to hear yet another person become a champion of such a worthy cause, and since you seem to have ideas of how they could do better, it'd be great to have your support to bolster such efforts. I look forward to your enlightened suggestions regarding how we can really improve things for the treatment of women in the gaming industry and community.

#44 Posted by Draxyle (1889 posts) -

It's like every time I see someone racist, "Oh, I forgot you guys still exist". It's pretty disheartening to see people blissfully unaware of their misogynistic ways, or worse, proud of them. All we can do is give these people a hard time any time they act out in this way.

@YOU_DIED said:

People really think "sexism" (and I use this term very loosely) in video games is a problem worth wasting time on? Wow, and I thought I had my priorities fucked up. They were right, we are definitely living in the hyperreal.

I've never been a fan of these kinds of arguments. It sucks that those things are happening all around the world, but that doesn't disqualify these "smaller" things from being legitimate issues. There's no reason that we can't care about all the bad parts of society and the world at the same time, big or small.

#45 Posted by scalpel (314 posts) -

Why can't we have reasoned discussion instead of this emotional babble?

#46 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5077 posts) -

I feel like that this hashtag business is the equivalent of "Hey look, I drive a Pryus, I'm saving the planet."

#47 Posted by TruthTellah (9428 posts) -

@scalpel said:

Why can't we have reasoned discussion instead of this emotional babble?

We could uh... have a reasoned discussion here if you'd like.

Choose the place and time, select a bat or knife, and let's do this.

#48 Posted by JasonR86 (9763 posts) -

@TruthTellah:

It's not that I'm angry that this is a 'thing'. It's that I find it utterly pointless. Not so much because it will amount to nothing, which it most certainly will amount to absolutely nothing, but because it is being perpetuated by people who all think the same way. Nearly everyone who knows about this hashtag deal already know that sexism is bad and that if anyone had any good solutions they would be the ones who would try to implement those changes. But preaching to the choir is a pointless act. You'll just get pats on the back and everyone will nice and happy because everyone will agree with everything and nothing will matter. Think about Martin Luther King during the Civil Rights movement. How helpful would it have been if he had just gone to predominantly black communities and started chanting "Racism sucks!"?

This whole hashtag deal is about raising awareness right? For that to happen people who don't have that awareness need to hear the message in hopes that that awareness will increase. The people who know about this hashtag have that awareness making this deal pointless.

But who the fuck am I? People can do this all they want. It is just irrelevant to me and I find it funny how amazing these individuals believe they are.

#49 Edited by JasonR86 (9763 posts) -

@Droop said:

Heh. To be fair, Leigh is the only obnoxious, silly, immature, annoying drunk game person I've heard (on the Bombcast at least)

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Well maybe I could but I didn't want to. Also, what a great way to endear yourself to colleagues.

#50 Posted by YOU_DIED (703 posts) -

@TruthTellah: If they feel women are underrepresented in the industry, they should start working to get more women interested in related subjects, like Engineering, Computers, PR, Business, etc. If they feel they are being sexually harassed by their co-workers (or anyone, for that matter), they should visit their HR department, local police, or perhaps a lawyer if all else fails. If they are catching a bunch of heat on some shitty social network then they should learn to use the tools that are in place to block or remove the offenders from their field of view (either that or just deal with it, behaving like a responsible adult is the price we pay for a free and open internet). Most importantly, they should learn to distinguish between the following things:

1. Anonymous, random internet hate - hate for the sake of hating, not because someone is out to get you (this is the bulk of what you see)

2. Hate or harassment directed towards someone because of their personality and behavior, NOT because of the fact that they are a woman (see Leigh Alexander)

3. Actual sexism, like being denied a job because you are a woman

THIS is how you start, not by becoming a fucking 'pop culture critic' on YouTube (that phrase makes me cringe).

It seems like every day now there is a new article or forum post somewhere about this where the same tired old arguments get recycled, 'check your straight white male privilege' ad infinitum. This is why you see people complaining about it, because they just want them to shut the fuck up and do something about it already so we can get on with playing and talking about video games.