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#51 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -
@pweidman said:

Amazingly unprofessional. Someone does deserve to be fired. And just the mention of such a policy of holding back review copies, picking and choosing based on previous review scores, sheds light on a practice that IS going on. This is a big shoutout to consumers. DO NOT buy games that fail to supply review copies to gaming press before release.

2K would do well to cut that firm loose.

I don't think there's anything wrong with not giving review copies to people who aren't fairly reviewing the game. 
 
I haven't palyed the game, but I did watch a video of a playthrough of the entire game, and the reviews are more disgusting than the game is. 
 
THe reviews are acting like 2K was somehow attacking or violating gamers by releasing DNF to the public. As though 2K had promised that Duke Nukem was going to solve all your problems and somehow it doesn't. 
 
DNF is a game. It honestly looks better and more fun than many, many, games I've seen on shelves today. There are things it does that are downright cool. (the view of all of las vegas when you're high up does wonders for the atmosphere) 
 
The reviewers need to get over themselvs, or be forced to get over themselves.
#52 Posted by groin (848 posts) -

@Lucidlife said:

@groin: And you have played the game? It's a pretty standard shooter. What makes it garbage exactly?

Locking the player into a room and spawning several waves of enemies is terrible and boring game design. Why did I have to refill that truck 3 times? The underwater sequence was the most boring part of the game. Why was I restricted to carrying 2 weapons when Duke3D allowed me to to carry every weapon at once? The humor is also dated and juvenile. If you consider this a standard shooter than you're stuck in 2005. This game is only slightly better than Perfect Dark Zero. They really phoned it in at the end of the game because the last boss is just the first boss recycled. Pissing into his eye socket is considered funny?

#53 Posted by Lucidlife (107 posts) -

@NaDannMaGoGo: What percentage of the game would you say you have played through that led you to call it "fucking garbage"?

#54 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -
@Leptok said:

And I wonder specifically how they got burned to get that mad. Everyone must have been telling them, "Oh yeah, it looks great" or something.

I think they were really justified to get that mad. 
 
A friend of mine works at star bucks and just yesterday she was telling me about a lady who came into her store and couldn't get her coffee right away. She flipped out and started yelling at my friend, who wasn't even responsible for the incident, and wouldn't let her explain WHY she couldn't get the coffee immediately. The lady's rationale was that she was paying 2.50 for coffee, so it should be ready immediately and everything she wants should be given to her immediately. She also, apparently, felt like given 2.50 allowed her to be yell and people and carry on in the store. LIke being a customer means she should be worshipped even at the expense of the company doing what makes the most sense to make money. 
 
Reviewers aren't just reviewing Duke Nukem, they're acting like they were personally hurt by the game being released. They were given a free copy of a game that is for sale OPTIONALLY to whomever would like to purchase it, and they're acting like they're being forced to play through this game that is punching their sister and molesting their grandmother. 
 
It just underlines how this industry is not a professional one, from the developers to the journalists.
#55 Posted by benjaebe (2783 posts) -

@Lucidlife said:

@NaDannMaGoGo: What percentage of the game would you say you have played through that led you to call it "fucking garbage"?

Hey, what's up RednerGroup PR person? Didn't know you'd take time out of your day to set up a Giant Bomb account and try to investigate everyone else's experience with the game.

I'm surprised that there seems to be some kind of "Duke-force" damage controlling negative opinions of the game. Having played it all (yes from start to finish) and having really enjoyed previous DN games, the game is pretty fucking shit and it's kind of a major let down. The humor is stale, it's boring and it tries to ride on the coattails of previous games - tries and fails to, that is.

#56 Edited by pweidman (2342 posts) -

@JazGalaxy said:

@pweidman said:

Amazingly unprofessional. Someone does deserve to be fired. And just the mention of such a policy of holding back review copies, picking and choosing based on previous review scores, sheds light on a practice that IS going on. This is a big shoutout to consumers. DO NOT buy games that fail to supply review copies to gaming press before release.

2K would do well to cut that firm loose.

I don't think there's anything wrong with not giving review copies to people who aren't fairly reviewing the game. I haven't palyed the game, but I did watch a video of a playthrough of the entire game, and the reviews are more disgusting than the game is. THe reviews are acting like 2K was somehow attacking or violating gamers by releasing DNF to the public. As though 2K had promised that Duke Nukem was going to solve all your problems and somehow it doesn't. DNF is a game. It honestly looks better and more fun than many, many, games I've seen on shelves today. There are things it does that are downright cool. (the view of all of las vegas when you're high up does wonders for the atmosphere) The reviewers need to get over themselvs, or be forced to get over themselves.

This is not about defending the game so just stop. It's about integrity and honesty with consumers, and game journalists as well. If a reviewer goes overboard, people will notice and that reviewer will lose credibility. PR's job is to point some unfairnesses, in a professional way. Apparently though in this case reviewers are pretty much in agreement, so there's no winning PR coming out with threats about who'll get review copies in the future.

Bottomline, it's totally unprofessional for a PR dept. to create really bad PR on their own. Or put future sales and business for their client at some risk. Just too rediculous. Like I said, letting someone go is totally justified, or the firm at the client's disgression. Plus everyone saw this reception coming..Pitchford even went out of his way before release to say reviews don't matter to them.

#57 Posted by BonOrbitz (2216 posts) -

@august said:

@weeman105: Using "fag" as a generic insult is dumb as hell and brings down the already tenuous level of discourse on these forums.

Agreed. Enough of that shit, people. Grow the fuck up.

#58 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -
@pweidman said:

@JazGalaxy said:

@pweidman said:

Amazingly unprofessional. Someone does deserve to be fired. And just the mention of such a policy of holding back review copies, picking and choosing based on previous review scores, sheds light on a practice that IS going on. This is a big shoutout to consumers. DO NOT buy games that fail to supply review copies to gaming press before release.

2K would do well to cut that firm loose.

I don't think there's anything wrong with not giving review copies to people who aren't fairly reviewing the game. I haven't palyed the game, but I did watch a video of a playthrough of the entire game, and the reviews are more disgusting than the game is. THe reviews are acting like 2K was somehow attacking or violating gamers by releasing DNF to the public. As though 2K had promised that Duke Nukem was going to solve all your problems and somehow it doesn't. DNF is a game. It honestly looks better and more fun than many, many, games I've seen on shelves today. There are things it does that are downright cool. (the view of all of las vegas when you're high up does wonders for the atmosphere) The reviewers need to get over themselvs, or be forced to get over themselves.

This is not about defending the game so just stop. It's about integrity and honesty with consumers, and game journalists as well. If a reviewer goes overboard, people will notice and that reviewer will lose credibility. PR's job is to point some unfairnesses, in a professional way. Apparently though in this case reviewers are pretty much in agreement, so there's no winning PR coming out with threats about who'll get review copies in the future.

Bottomline, it's totally unprofessional for a PR dept. to create really bad PR on their own. Or put future sales and business for their client at some risk. Just too rediculous. Like I said, letting someone go is totally justified, or the firm at the client's disgression. Plus everyone saw this reception coming..Pitchford even went out of his way before release to say reviews don't matter to them.

Who is to say this is negative PR for anyone but you? And you ALREADY didn't like the game or it's developers. 
 
Readers LIKE when reviewers tear into and eviscerate a game. That's part of why reviewers like to do it. It's why reviews like Alex's Big Rigs write-up get tons of exposure even years after the game is released. 
 
The bottom line is that many, many game reviews are incredibly out of line in an industry where the professionals are frequently no more professional than forum members. I can't tell you how many game reviews I've read that feel the need to compare games to human waste. It's pretentious and it's pandering. Many of the DNF reviews are out of line and it's perfectly fine for the PR company to say "look, you might think you're doing this to be funny, but your future dealings with this company are on the line. Bad scores are fine, but act like adults". 
 
Professionals who behave like professionals will get treated like professionals.
#59 Posted by Chris2KLee (2337 posts) -

Man, this game continues to generate real world headaches even after it's release. It was a bad game, people did not like it, that's the way it goes PR dude. Sorry you might not get your huge ass bonus so you could buy a new yacht. I imagine he probably only apologized when he realized the corporate PR nightmare he had unleashed, which would have hurt his bottom line worse.

#60 Posted by Jimbo (9869 posts) -

This probably isn't an uncommon practice, it's just uncommon that somebody involved is stupid enough to come out and talk about it. The industry/press relationship is dodgy as fuck. It's not like brown envelopes need to change hands or anything because everybody on both sides already knows the score: you scratch our back and we'll scratch yours. The indirect manipulation of review scores should be taken far more seriously than it actually is - this is a zillion dollar industry and the practice is tantamount to defrauding the public.

This won't change until the gaming press collectively grow a pair and refuse to put up with it. You want to try and manipulate early reviews by playing favourites? Fine, then none of us will cover your game. Of course, the press has no reason to force the issue because as long as they play by the rules (which for the most part they do, hence the 7-10 review scale) then it's a pretty cushy setup for everybody. Everybody except the consumer that is, who just pays for it.

#61 Posted by pweidman (2342 posts) -

@JazGalaxy: LOL. I never said I didn't like the game or the devs(love Gearbox), that's just you defending again. And you don't get it. This is not my perception alone obviously. Why in the fuck did they rush and apologize so profusely? They know what they did was extremely stupid, and their asses are on the line now. Don't get into PR

duder, cuz you don't get the concept.

It seems your anger is at irresponsible reviewers and reviews. That's another topic and has validity. Taking shots at games using silly hyperbole is sloppy and reprehensible agreed. Not PR's position to judge, especially not with those threats carelessly tossed out publically.

#62 Posted by StrainedEyes (1326 posts) -

2K has responded via Twitter:

2K Games does not endorse or condone the comments made by @TheRednerGroup and confirm they no longer represent our products.
We maintain a mutually respectful relationship with the press and will continue to do so. We don't condone @TheRednerGroup's actions at all.
#63 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7099 posts) -

@shinigami420 said:

I went into the lulzsec irc and told them if your gonna fuck over someone it should be Redner Group

and they said maby so..... lets hope they get fucked in the ass

You're a moron. If you in fact did what you say you did, you've perpetuated the idea that these hackers have the gaming community behind them. They don't and never will.

#64 Posted by Shady1992 (160 posts) -

Hey guys, we made a bad game, but you should give it good reviews!

#65 Posted by phish09 (1110 posts) -

How about not releasing games that you were told repeatedly in previews and (I'm sure) by game testers is a totally shitty game? 
 
I think the Press should take a stand and say "We're not going to review 2K games anymore."

#66 Posted by DrDarkStryfe (1140 posts) -

Not too surprising that 2K had to act a bit swiftly on this.

#67 Edited by StrainedEyes (1326 posts) -

@phish09 said:

How about not releasing games that you were told repeatedly in previews and (I'm sure) by game testers is a totally shitty game? I think the Press should take a stand and say "We're not going to review 2K games anymore."

Why? 2K has since dropped the PR firm and said they don't condone their actions.

#68 Posted by phish09 (1110 posts) -
@Geo7877 said:

@phish09 said:

How about not releasing games that you were told repeatedly in previews and (I'm sure) by game testers is a totally shitty game? I think the Press should take a stand and say "We're not going to review 2K games anymore."

Why? 2K has since dropped the PR firm and said they don't condone their actions.

My post was based on the OP.  I can't keep up to the minute on news about 2K...having said that, why are you being so defensive? 
#69 Posted by SSValis (1136 posts) -
@august said:

@weeman105: Using "fag" as a generic insult is dumb as hell and brings down the already tenuous level of discourse on these forums.

What were you expecting Nietzsche from a poster that likes weeman.
#70 Posted by PeasForFees (2411 posts) -

Jim Sterling wins again.

#71 Edited by RIDEBIRD (1233 posts) -

@Lucidlife: Sadly, yes. I will admit to pirating it though. I played the demo (had that Borderlands thing) and thought, oh my god, this is fucking atrocious. It can't be this bad. I have then played about four or five hours on my pirated copy, and even if it doesn't defend my action, I am so glad I didn't spend a dollar on this. It's really, really bad in my opinion, and if I was reviewing it I can't see it getting more than 1/5, unless the last 14 hours completely change everything around, as well as the multiplayer being a-ma-zing.

@Jimbo: It's not as bad as that I would say. I worked for a year in the write-about-games-thing and never found it bad. Generally PR was helpful and tried to help out if you had issues - of course to improve your experience, but still. At the event I attended (which was paid for by the publisher) I didn't find PR obnoxious at all. They helped out and let us play the game and made sure we had enough time to do so. I heard some horror stories from fellow writers at the event however. One guy from a neighbouring country told me about an event for S.T.A.L.K.E.R, which was basically a huge bribe trip to fucking Chernobyl, complete with guides and everything. That trip lasted a fucking week, and in the end they got to play the game for literally 20 minutes. So sure, it exists, but it doesn't really affect very much as the dude that told me this just said he went home to his boss and said, look, this was a huge waste of time and I can't write a preview. There was no preview and the publisher spent a good €1000 per writer and got basically nothing out of it.

One thing I will say though is that publishers will delay review copies until after the release date if they know it's bad or might be perceived as bad. It still doesn't affect the score. Here publishers play favorites as well - so, when you see a site have an exclusive review up or the like, well, you know they can never be trusted with pretty much anything. Most sites/pubs are not like this, however, and most publishers do in fact respect low scores if they're motivated well and the writer has been thorough.

Pleased to see 2K take swift action and a stand. I mean, it was expected, but it happened very fast since they might actually have a PR department that's not retarded.

#72 Posted by Lind_L_Taylor (3966 posts) -

Hella, if you know your game is bad & based on a good brand name,
I sure as hell wouldn't give out advance copies for review!  They're 
trying to make money. It's a business after all & what good is hella
nega-press for their sales??
 
Hella.

#73 Posted by harvey_the_pooka (271 posts) -
@Lucidlife: Dude I have played it. Played enough of it to determine it is a piece of shit. I played through Hexen 1 and 2 so I know about shitty games. 
to answer your question  @groin: 
 
It is crap because it´s fucking repetitive, almost any surface in the game has this shine to it, how types of enemies are in the game again? just to name a few. 
 
I know there is a lot of controversy on this so I can see where you are coming from. I bought Duke Nukem 3D when it came out in the 90´s and have always liked it so you can´t say I am just a hater. I don´t hate DNF I am just saying it´s not a piece of quality software. And I have the utmost respect for Randy Pitchfork and everybody at Gearbox to actually finish it but as it was expected after such a long development the game turned out to be shit