6 Sexist Video Game Problems Even Bigger Than the Breasts

Cracked weighs in on the topic of sexism in videogames - and in a surprisingly thoughtful manner.

Yeah, yeah, sexism in games can be an overdone topic. But, like, really you guys? This article makes valid points instead of just slinging shit and seeing what sticks. Worth a read.

I stopped at Last of Us. Because that was absolutely bullshit. Ellie is one of the best female written characters in this industry maybe even the best. She is far from weak she is a 14 year old girl for fucks sake. Showing emotions is not a sign of weakness. ALso she never really needed to be saved in the Winter scenario. The "penis" like this author called it showed up after she killed the guy.

I disagreed with Tomb Raider. I mean yeah she was kind of terrible at the start but when she got that grenade launcher... it felt better than if she had just been stone cold ice at the start. I agree with most of the others though (esp. daddy issues, gosh that happens a lot I just realized).

also nice @darji, can't stay away can you? I regularly see a picture and then close the article in disgust

I went into this thread thinking the title was "6 Sexier Video Game Problems Even Bigger Than the Breasts" I was disappointed.

But if the woman can already rip holes in reality and/or enemy sternums, maybe they should have a character dynamic other than "Save me!"

You can't start with The Last of Us (whose main female character is a child, as far as I know) and then make your point with Bioshock Infinite.

Oh, yeah, and there's the little bit about Elizabeth having a hard time controlling her powers and all.

EDIT:

The Tomb Raider reboot reduced Lara to a puddle of tears. Every time she cried, missed a jump (and then cried), or killed a person in self-defense (followed by crying), I wanted Laura Mulvey to spoon me and tell me everything was going to be all right. I get that it's an "origin" story, before Lara became badass, but when we saw young Indiana Jones at the start of the Last Crusade, it wasn't extended shots of him weeping and trying to wipe a snotty nose on his leather coat.

Oh, bullshit. The Lara in the Tomb Raider reboot is nothing if not independent. Yeah, she's fucking scared, and shows it for the first few hours of the game, but at around the halfway mark she gets a grenade launcher and goes on something of a rampage (which was a fucking awesome moment, by the way).

Man, I'm being an ass this evening.

Yeah, I agree with some points, but I thought Tomb Raider was great, she was emotionally ravaged by having to take a life early on in the game. That made her human, not "a weak woman" that point felt like they were grasping.

Hey guys, what's going on in he-OH GOD

Why should I stay away? When people like that can write these kind of articles I can answer to it. Yes Sexism and misogyny exist in Video games and I would never deny that but the recent examples are just getting dumber and dumber. If you people can not even acknowledge a strong female character like Ellie than you really do not deserve any good written female characters at all. Ellie is fantastic not only as a female character but as a video game character. Daddy issues? really?

Joel lost his daugther and over time he tries to replace Ellie as his daughter and Ellie also sees a father figure in him and there is nothing wrong about it at all. It is not harmful to anyone especially not to the female representation of women. It is a story which involves great and complicated two main characters. IF you want to go with daddy issues at least name something like Walking dead in which the girl's (forgot the name) only role was to show the main character in a good light even he killed his wife. I would not really agree with this either but at least I could accept that opinion. But Ellie? Really? Ellie?

FUCK

STOP

FUCKING STOP

And Booker not trying to rescue her so much as kidnap her. And the part where she doesn't really have any desire to leave her domicile. And the difficulty of calling her a damsel in distress when she's lacking the distress part. And my doubts that this was ever a good example in the first place.

You sexist fatherfuckers!

VIDEO GAME WOMEN SHOULD STAY IN THE VIRTUAL KITCHEN LIKE COOKING MAMA

I don't actually believe this, but someone's gonna drop the hi-lar-ri-ou-s "get back in the kitchen" joke before this thread gets locked.

The moment I saw that article I knew a thread about it would be made here and Darj would post in it.

I don't really want to weigh in on the whole sexism thing, but I think video games these days are super interesting. Most games that come out that have human protagonists and a renowned story or whatever, seem like they're doing a great job at giving gamers the opportunity to feel a little more of the consequences produced by behaving like a video game character. Like, in Hotline Miami, I felt like a horrible horrible person, which is a story angle that a lot of video games up til now hadn't really tried with. I know that's not the first or best example, but it's fresh in my memory and relatively spoiler free.

My point is, sexism or no, it's not great playing the same chiseled beefed up killing machine "hero" in every single game. It's been really refreshing playing a lot of these narrative driven games and feeling like I can actually get a little closer to "buying" a character's premise. I mean, there's always room for big dumb fun murder simulators and shit like that, I mean, we're still playing video games here, and it's fun, but I like where this industry is headed, I think.

I actually don't usually see the "get back in the kitchen" "joke" in these threads, although I wouldn't be surprised, but maybe I'm just completely missing them (thankfully).

Man, all of you are missing the biggest problem with this article.

The dude put Xbox 360 prompts and achievements over an image of The Last of Us.

This will not stand.

Actually, it makes some incredibly broad points with little attention to the smaller details of each individual issue. Maybe worth a read if someone is in need of a primer for sexism in video games, but certainly not enough to help fuel a deep discussion.

Number 4 I agree with so much. I hated how that game turned Samus into such a whiny unlikable "I can't do anything" sort of hero.

And I can't believe this article is making me defend The Last of Us, but the scene they're talking about made sense. Ellie just went through hell on earth, being chased by a dude who wants to rape her, she wasn't sure of Joel was even going to live, and she was distressed beyond what I could even imagine. I'd break down crying too if the only person who cared about me within 100 miles not only miraculously survived, but destroyed everyone to come find me. Plus, Ellie is just a kid, give her a break.

I also disagree with the Tomb Raider example. I can't imagine I would be doing much better if I were on a stranded island either with no way to escape some psycho killer tribe. Plus, as others have mentioned, by the end she was a freaking bad ass who didn't take any shit from anyone. I do agree that it did start to get pretty annoying though.

Number 1 is depressingly accurate though.

SEXISM

REXISM

GEXISM

Most of this article is pretty spot-on. Some of it is grasping. I thought Lara in the Tomb Raider reboot was an interesting character in part because she wasn't immune to the effects of the violence around her. If anything the disconnect between the first murder that she felt bad about, and then the subsequent indifference towards hundreds more people she blew up, filled with bullets and stuck arrows in their brains makes her seem even more callous because she appeared to have had a conscience in the first place. I don't remember the game having "reduced Lara to a puddle of tears" like the article claims, at least not beyond maybe one or two early cutscenes.

I've never understood why almost all great female side characters are made into love interest, I mean LOU had to make her a 14yr old for the relationship not to turn into that. Also I've never understood how games like gears, halo, god of war, and many more that are set in a fictional world not set in our boundarys still relys on present day sexism or any other discrimination.

We are talking about worlds that can be limitless in terms of opportunitys yet they still decide to keep the modern sterotypes, it truly makes no sense to me. its almost like creating a religion with a ton of modern visions of women and men being equal yet gays are not allowed lol it's just dumb IMO.

list is total bullshit a guy on the internet told me sexism isn't real

So I've come to the conclusion that there are two camps of women when it comes to these issues. The well spoken ones who make no goddamned sense and use circular logic to prove themselves right and those that while not well spoken actually have valid points to make. It seems strange that with all the articles I read those written by people in the industry tend to be from a more emotional and more sane perspective while not being to most well written articles. Then there a piece like this that are absolute bullshit and I wonder why they wonder why no one takes them seriously. If the examples your going to use the represent what is wrong with the gaming industry are the Last of Us and fucking Army Men Sarges Hero's you are doing something incredibly wrong. The only real valid points in the article are about Metroid Other M as not only is Samus' characterization in that game sexist its also nonsense, that and it was written from a completely different cultural view than our own and must be taken as such.

TLDR:

Tired of the sexist rants about gaming while I agree things need to change badly researched articles calling out games that do not fit the general tone your trying to convey are helping no one.

That ad was spoofing another famous ad at the time. Makes it not quite as bad, but still a case of having their cake and eating it too.

Well, that was probably the least funny thing I've ever read on Cracked. What I mostly got from that article is a fundamental and perhaps willful misunderstanding of how stories are told and how violence is the easiest and most effective way to create stress and drama in fiction. There were a few well made points I'll admit however. I also enjoyed seeing one of the those "Male Gamers Only" ads at the end of the article promising titillating RPG action for those who click through. Delicious and delectable irony.

Video games are sexist towards men, as men are generally the bad guys, the killers, insensitive, racist, sexist and a number of other things, who the hell cares though? Games are made to sell, and they are marketed towards their intended market and not the minority, why doesn't farmville cater to my needs? Why? Because it's not targeting me.

Crack should stick to the jokes and pop-top lists, not this feminists BS.

"Please visit our site. We have literally nothing to contribute to video games, but please visit our site so we can feed our families" <--Rough translation of the cracked article.

This goes for nearly every major gaming website who runs ads. The problem is that people are too stupid to realise that they are being baited.

I love this scene in Far Cry 3.

These are positions of power. They're demonstrative of power.

Because women who buy games are in the very small minority at....45%. And they're actually in the majority if we're talking about the United States population in general.

Except it didn't. Samus choosing to take orders from the person with jurisdiction over the ship is not a demonstration of submissiveness. It's a demonstration of abiding the law and protocol. And as for other aspects of the game, like her PTSD freeze-up, well, PTSD isn't exactly a sexist condition. The game's writing is not good; it's all very much telling and not showing, not to mention the odd flaws that occur in its attempt to pair the gameplay and story. But the story that the writing attempts to convey is not a terrible one, nor is it sexist.

That being said, the use of Other M is just one strike I have against this article. Using Tomb Raider as an example of "sexualized violence"? What? Not to mention the odd inclusion of The Last of Us.

I'm at the point where I'm so tired of this discussion. One side yells wolf every chance they get, and the other is filled with insecure, angry kids. I mean come on. Let's just be better people.

/thread

Man, you know I thought to myself today something we don't discuss enough as a community is sexism. I'm glad someone managed to make a topic about this since Its never discussed now days.

Oh, it most definitely is, hailinel. I still can't believe that people like you exist to defend that scene and everything else about the way Samus was written, even when sources like this exist to disprove pretty much every single defense you or anyone else can come up with in defense of that character assassination of a game.

And no one said PTSD is a sexist condition. Everyone that hates it says it's a freaking copout, with or without the sexist implications.

@nettacki: ...You're honestly pointing to TV Tropes as an argument?

Two can play at that game. And at least in this case, I'm using my own words.

@hailinel: yes, I'm pointing to TV Tropes as an argument. Got a problem with that? And it's a very in-depth analysis that debunks pretty much every defense you can throw at it.

Yes, because pointing at TV tropes is a lazy method of debate. If you have an argument to make, make it yourself. Don't point at a link someone else compiled (especially something as academically flawed as TV Tropes) and call it a day. Or if your argument is based on information from that link, then state it yourself and explain why the context of that link matters. Because if you can't state coherent argument yourself, then why should I listen to you?

Further, yes, people like me still exist. Not everyone agrees with your viewpoint, nor should everyone necessarily agree with it. Or do you have a TV Tropes link for that, too?

Naw, I think you've got it figured out. (Then again, I did play this game before I figured out how messages in stories are supposed to work, so I'm not exactly an authority figure on this either.)

Holy fuck.

This shit is getting just overblown. I get it, females want better representation in video games. We get it, EVERYONE GETS IT. now kindly shut the fuck up about it for a single god damn day. Jesus. At this point the constant articles and video game "journalism" about it is actually turning people away from it.

If you beat a dead god damn horse long enough, it's gonna split open and spray guts all over your clothes, and you dont want that, do you? DO YOU?!

@hailinel: Fair enough. Maybe we'll take the debate to PMs soon and we'll try to have a civil conversation about it. Maybe I got off the wrong foot.

I know there are people that don't see things the same way as I do. I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with is the implication that stuff like Samus's characterization and the way the story is written is acceptable (hell, even justifiable) in the industry at large. I don't know how you can look at all the legitimate criticism provided by all sorts of people and pass it off like it doesn't mean anything to you. Although correct me if I'm wrong about that.

You don't notice it because it's not something you can immediately figure out until you pay attention and take a closer look at it. Okay, so maybe calling it sexist was kind of an overreaction, but the writer doesn't necessarily have to intentionally hate women for unfortunate implications like that to pop up. Really though, the mere existence of writers who are rather ignorant of the possible negative implications of what they write and continue to insist that this game is the "right" Samus with the "right" vision is more of a problem than the existence of writers who are actually and intentionally sexist.

I'd like to think that many of the people that hate on Other M's story aren't completely against the idea of Samus showing a little more emotion. It's been done before on Fusion and I'm one of those that loved it on its own merits. What they are against is the idea that Samus never had a personality or character before Other M (she did, it just wasn't as fleshed out via dialog as it was via her actions), as well as the idea that this game is out to "fix" whatever actually happened in the previous games just to fit one director's vision.

I agree that the writing can be criticized. Like I said before, it's not good; too much telling, not enough showing. It's too dependent on Samus's narration explaining things that could have otherwise been told as flashbacks with full dialogue and makes the unfortunate choice to shoehorn the reasoning behind Samus not using her armor upgrades as her weapons. There are legitimate flaws in the script and storytelling; I won't argue against that.

What I will argue against is that limiting Samus by her agreeing to take orders and demonstrating signs of emotional weakness are not inherently bad. She's not some weak, wilting flower. She can still kick plenty of ass and demonstrates backbone. However, she's still a human being. Samus has her own weaknesses, just like anyone else. Maybe there are those that don't like to think that; they want Samus to be this badass, no-nonsense warrior-killer, but that sort of simplistic portrayal comes at the cost of personality and humanity. A fully realized "strong" character isn't just a character that can stand up for her or himself. Strong characters are those that are strong in terms of their characterization and are more fully fleshed out as individuals, rather than simple archetypes. Samus, as portrayed in Other M, is a fairly strong character hampered mainly by Yoshio Sakamoto's lack of ability as a writer. She runs into potholes and roadblocks along the way, but she still fights through it all and saves the day. The fact that she took orders (up to a point) and required help on occasion doesn't make her a weaker character. It makes her more believable as a person.

@clonedzero: Actually, popping a dead horse's belly like a big zit is the only way I can finish these days.

"Real people are not cutscenes: You can't just mash the controller to skip them and get back to being the undisputed male center of the universe." Damn, that's a funny line. That was a good read overall. I mostly agreed with it. Especially on how that piece-of-shit-on-a-disc Metroid: Other M totally screwed up Samus because Team Ninja doesn't think men can wrap their head around playing as a female protagonist unless they're assuming the role of the non-corporeal guardian of a big-boobied emotional basket case.

@chrissedoff: Team Ninja didn't write the story. If you're going to criticize, understand what you're criticizing.

This is really phony. Yes like 50% of women play games but the question is what the majority of these women play. And here is where it becomes strange. They do not play videogames like we do for the most part they play stuff on facbook IOS or MMOS.

And I love how caring for each other is now sexist. It is not sexist its called empathy. Love is the best thing in this world and most people can relate to that. It has nothing to do with holding women down or make them look weak. Love is also a very effective tool to create a story with emotion to give people a motivation. But in these days you call it objectification and a reward for the player.....

IT is really sad what has become of all this.